I was watching some of the awful scenes of the recent Japanese tsunami on youtube and I noticed in the comment box section below there were many messages of sympathy towards Japan and some of these people had mentioned in their messages of condolences that the victims of this disaster were in their prayers. These prayer comments seemed to incite some really angry responses from atheists who said that instead of praying to a make believe God to help the people of Japan, they should help the people of Japan themselves.

So do you think the atheists who wrote these comments have a point or are they just over reacting to some innocent comments?

I actually know many people who are not Athiests who are tired of the "Let's say a prayer" for people who are victims of a disaster attitude--if you really want to help these people out, donate money or time to organizations like the Red Cross.
Saying a prayer doesn't put food in their bellies or safe shelter around them.

>___<;;

I find the assumption that one cannot pray (or cast a spell, or whatever your metaphysical activism of choice) and help with people's physical needs at the same time incredibly offensive. Sure, a lot of people send their well-wishes while not doing anything that really helps, and that reveals how shallow their concern is (unless they just can't do anything to help, of course), but I don't see any reason to assume that the people who say they're praying for the people in Japan haven't donated or tried to help in some way, or to assume that the atheists griping at them have. It seems sort of like an overreaction to the religious people who claim atheists have no morality, or no basis for morality.

Originally Posted by Philomel

I find the assumption that one cannot pray (or cast a spell, or whatever your metaphysical activism of choice) and help with people's physical needs at the same time incredibly offensive. Sure, a lot of people send their well-wishes while not doing anything that really helps, and that reveals how shallow their concern is (unless they just can't do anything to help, of course), but I don't see any reason to assume that the people who say they're praying for the people in Japan haven't donated or tried to help in some way, or to assume that the atheists griping at them have. It seems sort of like an overreaction to the religious people who claim atheists have no morality, or no basis for morality.

If people are doing both, more power and love to them--I don't pray, but I can respect well wishers and prayers all the same--but just praying? Yeah...I agree, it is a bit shallow, well, unless they can't help, and it's truly the best they can offer--that's sortof the position I'm in...but I've been trying to make sure my friends in the tragedy know their families know they're okay. Internet and phone service is still spotty and power is still out in lots of places. If I can help in some way, any way, I'd love to. But I don't have the money to donate right now. So phone calls and "Your son is alright!!! Don't worry--he's safe! Just without a phone!" Is the best I can do. :(

I think sometimes saying a prayer is almost a kind of default behaviour in some us when a tragedy does happen. When friend died eighteen months ago, I didn't really know how to react and even though I had donated money to cancer research I still went and lit a candle at my local church for her as a sign of respect. Even though I hadn't been to church for years there was something comforting about going and doing that.

I would definitely agree with that. It's therapeutic, and when we're faced with tragedy -- especially tragedy that is personal, or of such an unimaginable magnitude -- we often need something, some way of coping. Whether or not it affects anything aside from your own mind is really besides the point.

Originally Posted by Philomel

I would definitely agree with that. It's therapeutic, and when we're faced with tragedy -- especially tragedy that is personal, or of such an unimaginable magnitude -- we often need something, some way of coping. Whether or not it affects anything aside from your own mind is really besides the point.

Yes, and that is the only efficacy prayer can possibly have - which is sort of the point.

When something like this happens in another part of the world, it seems appallingly selfish to reach out for rituals to comfort ourselves and then act like we're doing the victims some big favor.

There are times when prayer can be a comfort for the suffering. When a dying man's congregation prays for him, it may bring him some degree of solace. But the context matters - these are people who know him and who believe the same things he does. They're not people thousands of miles away offering platitudes to a deity he doesn't believe in.

I think the Atheists are a bit over sensitive, and rather close minded in that sense

I mean, just because they don't value faith doesn't mean no one does, for some saying 'you're in my prayers' is just as good for them emotionally as physical aid

Besides, it's not like you can't do both, pray and send aid I mean.

Originally Posted by Angel Song

I think the Atheists are a bit over sensitive, and rather close minded in that sense

I mean, just because they don't value faith doesn't mean no one does, for some saying 'you're in my prayers' is just as good for them emotionally as physical aid

Besides, it's not like you can't do both, pray and send aid I mean.

Yea, that's my point. There was a Daily Deviation (which is like, a spotlight piece of artwork on deviantART) that received a lot of attention from this subject. Let me see if I can find the link... I don't feel like copy/pasting it all ><

Here it is! - Scroll down to see the comments

If people want to pray, do it. If people want to pray and donate, sure. If people want to just donate, more power to ya'. It's not my place to say you cannot pray.

EDIT;
In case this seemed like I was trying to argue with you...I wasn't >3> I agree and wanted to add a valid link I think pertains to the subject.

Originally Posted by ll P W E E P ll

Yea, that's my point. There was a Daily Deviation (which is like, a spotlight piece of artwork on deviantART) that received a lot of attention from this subject. Let me see if I can find the link... I don't feel like copy/pasting it all ><

Here it is! - Scroll down to see the comments

If people want to pray, do it. If people want to pray and donate, sure. If people want to just donate, more power to ya'. It's not my place to say you cannot pray.

EDIT;
In case this seemed like I was trying to argue with you...I wasn't >3> I agree and wanted to add a valid link I think pertains to the subject.

My god people are so arrogant aren't they?

I honestly blame jealousy for this one. Especially the

They're really scraping the barrel for DD's aren't they ¬_¬

especially when her artwork isn't that great- no passion to it at all.

But before I get off topic...

That's sad, it really is. I mean, not everyone has the money or time to help Japan, and sending a message like that is at least doing SOMETHING, it shows that we care enough to think of them and involve them in something we, as religious types, value so much.

So do you think the atheists who wrote these comments have a point or are they just over reacting to some innocent comments?

I'd say a bit of both, but mostly they're just majorly overreacting.
I agree with seeing stuff about praying for people affected by natural causes is quite annoying. I do feel like such a thing is a waste of time that they could be spent doing something if they actually feel like helping them in any way. I see prayer in general as a waste of time.

However, I don't agree with attacking someone who prays, casts spells, or whatever for causes simply because I feel it's a waste of time. Unless they are shoving it in my face, especially when they know my beliefs don't sway that way in the slightest, in which case I'll start speaking up against it and being generally bitchy. They have no right to shove their beliefs down my throat, and I don't have the right to do it to them either - unless mutually agreed upon (such as in a debate or discussion about religion). (This would be different when in each others household - I have no problem bowing my head for prayer at a meal if I'm having a meal at a religious friends house (even though I'm not praying). I'd expect the same curtsy from them - they can pray at mine as long as they don't make it a group thing. That's just not done at my place. I choose to be friends with them, doesn't mean I have to be rude about their beliefs and it doesn't mean that I have to adopt them and vice versa.)

Posting something online about your faith, even in connection to natural disasters or people that may or may not believe the same as you, doesn't mean I have to look at it. I have a choice in the matter. (Unless someone is posting it in a topic/thread where it clearly wouldn't be wanted. In which case: gtfo.) If I'm getting pissy because you're exercising your freedom of speech and religion, what does that say about me? It's not like someone is shoving it in the face of these Atheists. I get where they're coming from since I hold the same views, I just think they need to be more respectful of the fact that everyone is entitled to their beliefs, no matter how silly you think they are. Everyone deals with things in a different way. Even if you don't think it's productive of them to pray, cast a spell, or whatever, it aids them in some way and there is no reason for you to be bitchy about that unless they are forcing it upon you. After all, aren't they wasting time they could be spending helping those affected by the current natural disaster by posting about why they dislike people praying instead of doing something? Tad counter productive? I think so.

This doesn't apply to people who wish to debate the issue, just those that get uppity about people expressing their opinion on a non-debate site or part of a site. Get over yourself. It's sad and almost pathetic. I'm glad I don't fly under the Atheist banner when these nutters come out, even though I am an Atheist. xP

It's kind of like those people that get all upset when businesses wishes them a Merry Christmas at Christmas time. I get it because there are other winter holidays around the same time (I do think it should be 'Happy Holidays' because of that - this is me being a pc and stuff; very odd for me, very odd) - but just because you don't celebrate that holiday? Oh, I'm so offended that other people can't tell my religion by my appearance and wish me a good day in a way that doesn't fall within my belief structure. -gasp- Silly people. Like telling me Trix are for kids. Pfffttt. Lies. All lies.

*sets the linked wallpaper deviation as her desktop background* =w=

I think that those atheists who have such poor reactions to that sort of thing are those atheists who chose their faith, or non-faith, in part through resentment towards other faiths. Therefore, if they see a message to "Please pray," someone who feels like organised religion is being forced down their throat every day of their lives is going to reply with a forceful "GO TO HELL!"

It's not a reflection on atheists or atheism in general at all. Atheism is just a school of thought where you lack faith in the idea of a deity, or genuinely believe there is NO such thing as a god. That's all. Having such violent reactions to a person of faith is more a reflection of the aggressor's own problems, not on a general level. "Asshole Atheists," like a lot of other kinds of asshole, are just unhappy or angry people who preach rejection rather than acceptance at heart.

And as for "Go out and do something rather than waiting for your Invisible Pink Unicorn to act!": that's just a silly leap of logic. At the end of the day, these people are total strangers and don't know anything about each other or their circumstances. People all too often judge others without knowing them - especially true both in real life and on the internet.

The actual video had no remarks about prayer, it was just people had written in the comment box that the japanese people were in their prayers which seemed to incite such a reaction. I think anything as overt as tele-evangelist demanding that we all pray to save our souls pisses off a large majority of people including other Christians. The atheists that were making the comments were simply offended by the notion that other people believe in a deity/deities and were showing this by making reference to their own personal prayer. Honestly I think it was a nice gesture and I said before sometimes people do turn to prayer in the face of mass or personal tragedy as a coping mechanism. What this showed was a lack of sensitivity, somewhere along the lines these atheist guys overlooked the bigger the picture, while they were nitpicking at Christians offering up personal prayer they forgot this is a mass tragedy of inconceivable sadness. People are expressing their grief over the terrible tragedy and people will do it in the form of prayer. How people choose to grieve is entirely up to them and doesn't deserve attack or scrutinization by others. I know all atheists are not like that and I don't want to come across like I am generalizing, it's just that in that comment box there was some extreme douchebaggery.

Originally Posted by una

I know all atheists are not like that and I don't want to come across like I am generalizing, it's just that in that comment box there was some extreme douchebaggery.

Oh, whoops - didn't mean to make it seem like I was directing what I was saying at you O__O Not at all! I was just giving my thoughts. :hug:

And I totally agree with what you say - nitpicking on other people for praying at a time like this is really missing the entire point...

Originally Posted by Lorika

Oh, whoops - didn't mean to make it seem like I was directing what I was saying at you O__O Not at all! I was just giving my thoughts. :hug:

And I totally agree with what you say - nitpicking on other people for praying at a time like this is really missing the entire point...

I meant it in a general context, it wasn't aimed at you honey bee ^.^ ;)

Sounds like you guys have got it right, though I wouldn't mind putting my two cents in as well.

For those out there who do believe in God, particularly anyone in or from Japan, knowing that people are praying for those people can be a great source of relief. All this terrible business happening there is causing stress on the world and the more we can all stay calm about it, the better we can all actually help them-be it through donations or going there or what have you. I'm willing to bet that to someone out there, knowing the world is sending thousands of prayers their way, it's helping them manage every painful moment. Be it true or false, it's what they believe and that gives them comfort.

So yes, as a matter of fact, prayer does help. It helps keep the spirits up of those who believe in it, so that they can face another day of saving lives, or just surviving their own.

Originally Posted by Artifex

I'm willing to bet that to someone out there, knowing the world is sending thousands of prayers their way, it's helping them manage every painful moment.

I'm willing to bet that the 99.99% of victims would prefer a hot meal and a comfortable place to sleep to being mentioned, nameless, in a prayer to a deity they don't believe in.

@Doomfishy
I realize that, and i'm not saying to not doing so. What I'm saying is that it doesn't hurt anyone, and the least some people can do from this far away is offer mere moral support-to both the victims and those actually in a position to help them.

Originally Posted by Artifex

@Doomfishy
I realize that, and i'm not saying to not doing so. What I'm saying is that it doesn't hurt anyone, and the least some people can do from this far away is offer mere moral support-to both the victims and those actually in a position to help them.

Well, if we're talking about helping the victims by providing moral support of a religious nature, it seems awfully selfish to pray to one's own deity of choice rather than the victims'. The percentage of Japanese practicing Christianity is miniscule, and the majority don't live in the area that was most affected.

.... I can understand that, but it isn't the point I was trying to make. I think we have come to a bit of an impasse you and I.

Originally Posted by Artifex

.... I can understand that, but it isn't the point I was trying to make. I think we have come to a bit of an impasse you and I.

My point is that the majority of people who pray for the victims are doing so to make themselves feel better by convincing themselves that they're helping. If they really wanted to provide actual help, they'd donate some small amount of money. If they really wanted to provide moral support, they'd take a few minutes to find out if there's a Shinto shrine nearby and consider visiting. I'm guessing it would actually be tremendously powerful for the victims to hear that people around the world were heading en masse to Shinto shrines to pray on their behalf, but as far as I can tell, it hasn't happened.

Of course you can donate AND pray - at least in that scenario you've already done some good. I don't fault people for comforting themselves - I fault them for doing it as a replacement for actual good works and for treating it like it's more effective than it actually is.

I'm not a religious person, but if someone says they'll pray for me, I'm flattered. It's not about religion to me as it is being kind and letting someone know that they're thinking of you and caring enough to try and do whatever they feel is in their power to do.

When people say they pray for me, I unfortunately know they're being ignorant. Yes, the thought of inciting something spiritually DOES work, in multiple ways. Prayer, circles, spells, the like. I would know.

However, sometimes people say this just to feel gratification in thinking they're doing a good thing, when really, they are just being ignorant. People can honestly pray and do whatever they need to help Japan, but they can also do something physical as well, donating, funding and such.

I absolutely hate it when someone says 'I'll pray for *insert whoever*'. I find it very rude for someone to do that, when no one asked them to do it in the first place. If they want to pray for a person, a group of people, or a whole country then they need to keep it to themselves so that people who really don't want to be prayed for, don't get offended by it.

Now if I ask someone to pray for me, that's a different story altogether. I don't mind that, as I asked someone to do it rather then someone who, while having good intentions, decided to do it anyways regardless if I wanted them or not.

If people really want to do good then they can pray when they do their prayers AND actually send some form of donations.

I think most religious folk don't believe a giant monty python hand will reach down from the heavens and litter Japan with much needed aid. I genuinely believe people will be praying for aspects that are beyond financial and material means like hope, comfort, love, strength ect.

@- Ashlyn Mae- The notion is supposed to be a gesture of comfort and love to those who are suffering. To me this humanity at its rawest. In the face of such sadness and hopelessness people still try to find a way to reach out to others be it through thoughts or prayers. When emotions are running high I doubt people take time to consider the political correctness of their actions. I understand why you would find it offensive if someone was to pray for you, my aunt used to do it for me because she I thought I had the devil in me and that really use to annoy me. But in this sort of circumstance I think people are praying for love and comfort which is a little different to the salvation of your soul. No one asks them to do it, but they do it anyway simply because as I said it is an expression of grief and sympathy to those who have lost so much.