I am a Christian.

I am also from a small town.

I find it growing more and more difficult to socialize with people once they know my faith.
I'm not a fundamentalist, I like the idea of gays having the right to love their own sex, I love learning about other faiths, I think men and women are equal and both should have a right to do as they please without fear or repercussion (provided it does not harm someone else or break the law), and I truly believe that god feels the same way.
But when I'm chatting with someone online, and in real life as well, people are so used to the fundamentalists who misrepresent my faith, that they aren't often comfortable enough to find out what my stance on such things are.

I grew up in a small farming town, and I was surrounded by fundamentalist Christians who were hateful against gays, non-Christians, and in many unfortunate cases, against people who were not fully Caucasian.

Everyone has a right to their beliefs, but when you express your beliefs with your nose in the air and deaf ears to anything else, well- you make your faith look like it stands for small-mindedness and vanity.

My request of all fundamentalists; think what you want, but keep it to yourselves, for the sake of your faith.

Discuss
People who share your faith that you aren't so proud of
Your feelings towards bigotry
What would/do you do to try and help the world be more open-minded

You seem to be a very wise person who is close to God

I know how you feel, a lot of people who start off on the practice of Wicca are less than mature. Most of them are always complaining about the Salem Witch Trials, even though the trials didn't affect them in any way. They also instantly assume someone is prejudice against their faith if someone doesn't like them, it's quite embarrassing. To make matters worse they lump us together.

But the truth is, we'll never be rid of people like that. It sounds negative I know, but it's fact. All we can do is ignore those types of folk best we can, and teach our kids to be better than that.

I know exactly what you mean. I love to hear about the faith of others, and other types of faith. I think that everyone has the right to believe what they believe, because even if I am right, it's up to God, not me, to decide when people should find Him. I believe that it's never right to throw your beliefs at somebody or to persecute them based on what you believe. All judgement is reserved for God.

I'm not Christian, but I can say that more Christians should think the way you do. I have no faith or religion, but I stand by my own moral beliefs. Many Christians I meet say that it is impossible for me to be happy if I don't believe what they do. I understand that they are trying to help, but they come off as arrogant and pushy. Everyone has the right to express their beliefs, but to tell someone how they feel when you have no idea is presumptuous. My mother-in-law is really the worst about this.

Always makes me happy to see people like you.

I grew up in a household where my mother was part of an extremely conservative, fundamentalist faith and my father, while he didn't share her beliefs, let her do as she pleased. I was force to be a part of it for the majority of my life and I hated it with a passion. I never felt comfortable with the belief system or the people involved. I thought about committing suicide on a very regular basis. Luckily, I eventually gained the courage to tell my mother that I wanted nothing more to do with her religion. She didn't talk to me for over a month but it was the best decision I ever made and I am a lot happier now because of it.

I'm an Atheist myself but I subscribe to the belief that we should all just live and let live. My life isn't any worse because gays are allowed to marry, if anything, it's better because there are more happy people in the world with the rights that they deserve to have. I don't mind people of faith so long as they're not closed minded. Once they start spreading hate, I get involved and things escalate quickly as I have extremely little patience for ignorance or the encouragement of oppression.

I'm not Christian, but I can say that more Christians should think the way you do. I have no faith or religion, but I stand by my own moral beliefs. Many Christians I meet say that it is impossible for me to be happy if I don't believe what they do. I understand that they are trying to help, but they come off as arrogant and pushy. Everyone has the right to express their beliefs, but to tell someone how they feel when you have no idea is presumptuous.

Exactly my case. When they try to force their religion onto you, you obviously want to flip them the finger and yell "f*ck off!" I tried that once, and they gave me a whole lecture on why it'd bad to curse. Hell, Satan, Devil, Evil, cursing is not of god, blah blah blah, all that shizz. And then I said this just for entertainment(wanted to see the reaction),"Heaven, Hell, and God were just one cowardly man's way of making people be kind to others, to make an illusion that there was happiness if you did good deeds. " Well, they totally flipped out and gave me another lecture saying I was the devil's child. Haha, me, a devil's child? My father isn't exactly living in a burning pit of fire. And no one will actually know if Heaven and Hell are real, or if it is just another story. I don't have anything personal against christians, I just don't really give a shit about where I'm going in the afterlife. After all, you're going to die sometime anyways, and there's no stopping it. People just choose not to see that they're going to die, because it scares them. Well, I can handle death, I've seen it happen enough times already.

I think it would be nice if more Chritians thought the way you do. I, myself, am not Christian, but I also know that not all Christians are fundementalists. My mom (who is like, my best friend) is Chritian, but about half of her friends are gay, several more are drag queens, a few are bisexual, some are cross dressers, and most of them are in relationships. And then there are the friends she has that are mentally handicapped, and one gay guy who's a sociopath...My mom is one of the least judgemental people in the world. XD But, she's also totally Christian, and loves God, and completely respects the fact that I don't believe in him.

I so know how you feel, though. I, myself, am an Agnostic Atheist. This means that I don't believe in any deities, but I don't claim to know that they don't exist. I guess it could be possible, it just doesn't seem that way to me. Somewhere along the line, Atheists got associated with Devil-worshippers. Which is funny, because none of us are actually Devil-Worshippers. I don't believe in God, so why would I believe in the Devil? Only ignorant people who don't really understand the whole concept of Atheism would even think that. Still, I don't even want to go there, so I tend to keep my religion to myself. I don't feel like having a bunch of angry Fundementalists coming after me about how I'm going to burn in Hell and how I'm so wrong and blah, blah, blah...It probably doesn't help that I'm bisexual. XD

I think the best you can do is just show people that you're not one of those fundienuts. It's all you can really do.

Originally Posted by carzeebear

I think that everyone has the right to believe what they believe, because even if I am right, it's up to God, not me, to decide when people should find Him. All judgement is reserved for God.

I just totally took an instant take a liking to you :D

Originally Posted by PhantomLolita

I'm not Christian, but I can say that more Christians should think the way you do. I have no faith or religion, but I stand by my own moral beliefs. Everyone has the right to express their beliefs, but to tell someone how they feel when you have no idea is presumptuous.

I personally believe that it is hurtful to god if you don't believe in him, but, I also very strongly believe that if you are a good person, god will accept you into heaven anyway.

However I understand, it's REALLY hard to believe in him these days, or any god for that matter.

But if you are a good person with strong morals, and stay that way until you die, then I'll see you in heaven one day.

Originally Posted by Vix Viral

Always makes me happy to see people like you.

I grew up in a household where my mother was part of an extremely conservative, fundamentalist faith and my father, while he didn't share her beliefs, let her do as she pleased. I was force to be a part of it for the majority of my life and I hated it with a passion. I never felt comfortable with the belief system or the people involved. I thought about committing suicide on a very regular basis. Luckily, I eventually gained the courage to tell my mother that I wanted nothing more to do with her religion. She didn't talk to me for over a month but it was the best decision I ever made and I am a lot happier now because of it.

I'm an Atheist myself but I subscribe to the belief that we should all just live and let live. My life isn't any worse because gays are allowed to marry, if anything, it's better because there are more happy people in the world with the rights that they deserve to have. I don't mind people of faith so long as they're not closed minded. Once they start spreading hate, I get involved and things escalate quickly as I have extremely little patience for ignorance or the encouragement of oppression.

I am SO sorry to hear that! I'm glad you didn't take your own life, and I don't blame you for being an Atheist, my mother is the same way. However like I said to PhantomLolita, if you are a good person, Atheist or not, I think God will let you into heaven when you die.
Just don't kill yourself, it's god who decided when you should and shouldn't die. Not in a petty way mind you, I think he's just annoyed when someone kills themself, especially if he isn't ready getting their place in paradice prepared.

Originally Posted by Quarter_Queen

Exactly my case. When they try to force their religion onto you, you obviously want to flip them the finger and yell "f*ck off!" I tried that once, and they gave me a whole lecture on why it'd bad to curse. I don't have anything personal against christians, I just don't really give a shit about where I'm going in the afterlife. After all, you're going to die sometime anyways, and there's no stopping it. People just choose not to see that they're going to die, because it scares them. Well, I can handle death, I've seen it happen enough times already.

I know for a fact this will sound Morbid, but death isn't a bad thing. Death ends suffering, brings people together, and helps the living to understand how precious and limited life is. For those who are good, there is a better life after death, so if you're a good person there is nothing to fear.

But I agree that swearing is bad, just because alot of those words shouldn't mean anything bad.

The F-word, means intercourse does it not? Intercourse is a beautiful thing, a way for two people to connect and show their love for one another. Don't cheapen it by using the F-word.
The B- word, a female dog... what exactly is bad with a female dog?
The three letter F-word, what is wrong being being gay?

And so on and so fourth.

So try not to swear, if anything it's just baiting the crazies.

Originally Posted by ZeGuMmIBeaRQueEn

I think it would be nice if more Chritians thought the way you do. I, myself, am not Christian, but I also know that not all Christians are fundementalists. My mom (who is like, my best friend) is Chritian, but about half of her friends are gay, several more are drag queens, a few are bisexual, some are cross dressers, and most of them are in relationships. She's also totally Christian, and loves God, and completely respects the fact that I don't believe in him.

I so know how you feel, though. I, myself, am an Agnostic Atheist. This means that I don't believe in any deities, but I don't claim to know that they don't exist. I guess it could be possible, it just doesn't seem that way to me. Somewhere along the line, Atheists got associated with Devil-worshippers. Which is funny, because none of us are actually Devil-Worshippers. I don't believe in God, so why would I believe in the Devil? Only ignorant people who don't really understand the whole concept of Atheism would even think that. Still, I don't even want to go there, so I tend to keep my religion to myself. I don't feel like having a bunch of angry Fundementalists coming after me about how I'm going to burn in Hell and how I'm so wrong and blah, blah, blah...It probably doesn't help that I'm bisexual. XD

Well, lost of people think Wiccans and other Pagans are devil-worshippers as well- but from what I understand, there is no Devil in the Wiccan faith. How can you worship something you don't believe in right?
It's just ignorance, so it shouldn't offend anyone.

Originally Posted by alicedress

I think the best you can do is just show people that you're not one of those fundienuts. It's all you can really do.

OMG FUNDIENUTS!? LOL! I like, totally love that! I'm gonna start using that.

Intercourse is a beautiful thing, a way for two people to connect and show their love for one another.

o.o Holy cow, I never would have thought I'd hear a Christian say that. From what I've seen, a lot of Christians consider intercourse as dirty and see it as a sin--lust. But it's actually really cool that you're open-minded and respectful of other people's beliefs. It gets so frustrating when all these religions fight over who is "right" and create wars in God's name.

I lived in the south for a while, so I know how crazy fundies can get. I've been ostracized by a good friend because her mother thought I looked like a witch (I was actually dressed normally...) and she freaked out on me when I told her I didn't believe in a god. To me, it's ridiculous to judge someone based on their beliefs of the afterlife. We're living real life right now; what happens later shouldn't dictate our relationships with people right now. I guess I just can't understand the fundamentalist mentality. :(

@ Angel Song: A) I love your name. B) Thank you XD It made me happy to see this thread, because I thought I was the only one who thought this way.

@ Amethyst Lavenlight: Of course we see intercourse as a beautiful thing. Is it not created as we were? A merging of the spirit and flesh of two beings, meeting in complete love and unity should be the most beautiful thing in the world. O.o I didn't know I could talk like that. But I truly believe what I just said. The only times when it is dirty, is when it is done outside of love.

While I do not agree with people that are discriminative or otherwise hating of other people based on gender/lack there of, religion/lack of, faith, race, or any other superficial way to hate someone, I do think that they do have a right to voice their opinions, as annoying as it is. I do find it offensive that I have to pay taxes to have baby Jesus put on top of town hall every year at Christmas though when I choose to have a different faith than those who put faith in Jesus. I also find it offensive that people at the church across the street from me insist on telling me not to hug my girlfriend because it's "a sin" and that I am "going to hell" for it. I was also told I was going "to hell" for transitioning from one gender to another by my neighbor and that if I "went back" to being "a woman", "God" would forgive me. I would like to note that I put God in quotes because there is more than one variation of "God" that people believe in.

People fear what they do not understand or they do not want to understand things that are different from what they believe. I try to educate people on why I do things how I do them and why I am how I am even though I really do not like having to explain myself to people because, quite frankly, it's none of their business. Sometimes though, it can't be helped. I do feel that education is the key to getting rid of some of the misconceptions that people have about sexuality and things like gender roles and identities.

I really do not mind religious people and I find religions to be interesting. I just wish more people were as open minded as some of the people that posted here because then the world would be a much better place. The way I see things is that there is no point in spending time hating each other when we should all be treating each other like brothers and sisters.

:D hehe, I'm glad I found this thread. Not like totally ecstatic but it makes me feel kinda happy inside.

BTW :00

Of course we see intercourse as a beautiful thing. Is it not created as we were? A merging of the spirit and flesh of two beings, meeting in complete love and unity should be the most beautiful thing in the world. O.o I didn't know I could talk like that. But I truly believe what I just said. The only times when it is dirty, is when it is done outside of love.

I love what you said just there. And totally agree. :D That's a neat way to think about it. I mean I have thought about it in a similar way, but not in that exact way. ^.^

OK!! And besides that!!
I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness, and used to be pushy about it, also arrogant about it, and admittedly, pretty close minded. I want to point out that this does NOT mean that all are like that. In fact, it was middle school when i had this eureka moment and became the more spiritual, more open minded version of myself :B The reason i stayed for so long is because there are many loving, insightful things I have found in that religion. The thing that drew me away in the end is that I've been recognized as "J-----'s daughter" or "A-----'s daughter", when really, I am nothing like my immediate family, save that I look Japanese, and am artsy. But the thing they don't know about my dad is that he totally lies about who he is. And it hurts me to have gone through abuse at home, and see people looking up to him at the kingdom hall. I do agree with many things in the religion itself. I don't know if there is somewhere that you can really avoid people like that, but still get spiritual truth. I mean, as generalities, probably. But as a religion, I don't know.

On that note, my fiance was saying something interesting the other day. it was that there is a difference between religion and reality. There are all of these different said beliefs out there. To be frank, we can't really say one religion is true while the rest aren't. But they can't all be true at the same time, as far as I see it. There are too many conflicting areas. But like, no matter what any of us says, there is one truth. If we believe in it or not, that's one thing. In the end, isn't what matters that you just tried your best to be a good person? I mean what more can really be asked for? I'd like to see a sign of some sort, that makes it clear. Until then, that's what's rolling through my head.

any thoughts? :3

But like, no matter what any of us says, there is one truth. If we believe in it or not, that's one thing. In the end, isn't what matters that you just tried your best to be a good person?

I completely agree. I believe that what happens after death is subjective; who really knows what'll happen? Instead of putting so much effort to find that one "truth," I'd rather focus all my energy into making the most of life, living life to the fullest and achieving personal happiness. I mean, reality is objective; it's here, right now. Every touch, taste, smell, sound is real--we don't question it!

Although it can be fun to theorize what that one "truth" may be, I prefer just experiencing and enjoying what I have now. :)

Originally Posted by Amethyst Lavenlight

o.o Holy cow, I never would have thought I'd hear a Christian say that. From what I've seen, a lot of Christians consider intercourse as dirty and see it as a sin--lust. But it's actually really cool that you're open-minded and respectful of other people's beliefs. It gets so frustrating when all these religions fight over who is "right" and create wars in God's name.

I lived in the south for a while, so I know how crazy fundies can get. I've been ostracized by a good friend because her mother thought I looked like a witch (I was actually dressed normally...) and she freaked out on me when I told her I didn't believe in a god. To me, it's ridiculous to judge someone based on their beliefs of the afterlife. We're living real life right now; what happens later shouldn't dictate our relationships with people right now. I guess I just can't understand the fundamentalist mentality. :(

It isn't Lust unless it is dirty

To me, sex that causes bodily harm, sex with children or the unwilling, sex with anyone you do not truly love, that is what Lust is, and that is a sin that is dirty.

Originally Posted by Mystic

While I do not agree with people that are discriminative or otherwise hating of other people based on gender/lack there of, religion/lack of, faith, race, or any other superficial way to hate someone, I do think that they do have a right to voice their opinions, as annoying as it is. I do find it offensive that I have to pay taxes to have baby Jesus put on top of town hall every year at Christmas though when I choose to have a different faith than those who put faith in Jesus. I also find it offensive that people at the church across the street from me insist on telling me not to hug my girlfriend because it's "a sin" and that I am "going to hell" for it. I was also told I was going "to hell" for transitioning from one gender to another by my neighbor and that if I "went back" to being "a woman", "God" would forgive me. I would like to note that I put God in quotes because there is more than one variation of "God" that people believe in.

People fear what they do not understand or they do not want to understand things that are different from what they believe. I try to educate people on why I do things how I do them and why I am how I am even though I really do not like having to explain myself to people because, quite frankly, it's none of their business. Sometimes though, it can't be helped. I do feel that education is the key to getting rid of some of the misconceptions that people have about sexuality and things like gender roles and identities.

I really do not mind religious people and I find religions to be interesting. I just wish more people were as open minded as some of the people that posted here because then the world would be a much better place. The way I see things is that there is no point in spending time hating each other when we should all be treating each other like brothers and sisters.

Okay srsly, god made your soul, not your body. Your parents and nature made your body. It should be your choice what you do with it.
God is all powerful, the way I see it, if he doesn't want a woman to become a man, he would have put them in the right bodies to begin with. If you changed your gender, obviously he's okay with that, and probably wanted you to do it in the first place.

Originally Posted by Angel Song

It isn't Lust unless it is dirty

To me, sex that causes bodily harm, sex with children or the unwilling, sex with anyone you do not truly love, that is what Lust is, and that is a sin that is dirty.

Then why not call "rape" a sin, instead of lust? I mean, the dictionary definition of lust is (in Webster's Dictionary):

lust: strong sexual desire

I mean, I understand that what you said is an interpretation of what you believe it means, but then why would the bible outright call it lust? Meaning that every sexual urge is "sinful?"

To quote the famous religious internet saying:
"Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats."

To each his own, really. That's my opinion.
Personally, I'm.. what others could refer to an athiest. But I like to believe there's some higher presence out there that is a semi-logical explanation to our existance (or more importantly, the existance of the universe).

There will always be extremists in their beliefs, and.. I don't think that will ever change.

Originally Posted by Amethyst Lavenlight

Then why not call "rape" a sin, instead of lust? I mean, the dictionary definition of lust is (in Webster's Dictionary):



I mean, I understand that what you said is an interpretation of what you believe it means, but then why would the bible outright call it lust? Meaning that every sexual urge is "sinful?"

Keep in mind that the bible was written by men, many years after the crucification of Christ, and was not originally English. It's good as a guide, but not when you mindlessly obey every detail to a literal definition.

Sloth; shiftlessness, idleness, slackness. is defined by laziness, but in the bible also means religious laziness- I.E not going to Church on Sundays and whatnot, so Lust would not mean just Lust in general.

After all, God made us sexual for the sake of breeding at the beginning, and then made homosexuals to keep us from over-populating, so why would it be wrong to act the way he made us?

Originally Posted by Username Censored

To quote the famous religious internet saying:
"Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats."

OMFG I LOVE IT! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

I don't believe in god, but I'd like to have more conversations with Christians like you. :)

I don't really know what else to say. lol But I like learning about other religions (though I wish I knew more...I still feel so ignorant), and I feel the same way you do about some of the things you mentioned.

Originally Posted by Angel Song

Keep in mind that the bible was written by men, many years after the crucification of Christ, and was not originally English. It's good as a guide, but not when you mindlessly obey every detail to a literal definition.

Sloth; shiftlessness, idleness, slackness. is defined by laziness, but in the bible also means religious laziness- I.E not going to Church on Sundays and whatnot, so Lust would not mean just Lust in general.

After all, God made us sexual for the sake of breeding at the beginning, and then made homosexuals to keep us from over-populating, so why would it be wrong to act the way he made us?

:D Oh my gosh, I love the way you think! It's really frustrating to me with the fundies because they take every word in the Bible literally, including Genesis (which is mainly metaphorical) and tons of them forget that the Bible has been translated like a bajillion times.

I'm so used to seeing all the literal Christians taking every single word for granted and not even questioning the material. :) But I'm so glad that there are Christians like you who interpret the Bible and search for those "deeper meanings" throughout the translational and human errors.

As for my last post, I was just playing devil's advocate so I could find your stance on Bible interpretation. :P

Originally Posted by Amethyst Lavenlight

:D Oh my gosh, I love the way you think! It's really frustrating to me with the fundies because they take every word in the Bible literally, including Genesis (which is mainly metaphorical) and tons of them forget that the Bible has been translated like a bajillion times.

I'm so used to seeing all the literal Christians taking every single word for granted and not even questioning the material. :) But I'm so glad that there are Christians like you who interpret the Bible and search for those "deeper meanings" throughout the translational and human errors.

As for my last post, I was just playing devil's advocate so I could find your stance on Bible interpretation. :P

You could have just asked too XD

I went to sunday school taught by a very wise man, and he was removed because the parents didn't want their kids learning 'blasphemy', my mother included. All I remember is that his version of God and Jesus surrounded love for one another, peace and understanding, and those who silenced him were the fire-and-brimestone kind.
Guess which one I'd rather be a part of?

----------

Originally Posted by monstahh`

I don't believe in god, but I'd like to have more conversations with Christians like you. :)

I don't really know what else to say. lol But I like learning about other religions (though I wish I knew more...I still feel so ignorant), and I feel the same way you do about some of the things you mentioned.

You should spend that extra money and take a class- my mother wouldn't let me 'learn about the heathens' because of how 'easily influenced' I apparantly am, but if you want to and are able to take a class you really must do it.

Originally Posted by Angel Song

I went to sunday school taught by a very wise man, and he was removed because the parents didn't want their kids learning 'blasphemy', my mother included. All I remember is that his version of God and Jesus surrounded love for one another, peace and understanding, and those who silenced him were the fire-and-brimestone kind.
Guess which one I'd rather be a part of?

Yeah, it's like I heard that there are two types of Christians: God-fearing and God-loving. I think it's mainly the God-fearing Christians that make up the fundamentalists because they're the ones who fear that they'll go to hell for not converting others or for being friends with "heathens."

Originally Posted by Amethyst Lavenlight

Yeah, it's like I heard that there are two types of Christians: God-fearing and God-loving. I think it's mainly the God-fearing Christians that make up the fundamentalists because they're the ones who fear that they'll go to hell for not converting others or for being friends with "heathens."

I don't understand why you would 'fear' God though

Yeha he is capable of doing some serious crap, but he is supposed to be the ultimate good

and as Gods children, the only thing we should fear is Evil

God is not evil, so why fear him?

People fear god because they think god will hate them when they are at the gates of heaven, and it's human to be afraid of someone or something that won't like you, or that you think will hurt you.
The reason they fear god is probably because they think they have done something that will make god not love them.
The irony is, because they "don't love thy neighbor" they end up doing hateful and cruel things, or at least saying them, and that's probably exactly what god didn't want, you know? I never had one of those nutters hit me, but they'd always tell me I was going to hell. Words hurt when they come from the adult figures around you, and you're just a kid.

I think if anyone is going to hell, it is the people who tell other people who have done no wrong, that they are devils and are going to hell for believing something different. I don't believe in a higher power, or hell, for that matter. But it still breaks my heart that the people around me think that I would go to hell, because I *know* what hell is (or at least what people think it is).

Originally Posted by monstahh`

People fear god because they think god will hate them when they are at the gates of heaven, and it's human to be afraid of someone or something that won't like you, or that you think will hurt you.
The reason they fear god is probably because they think they have done something that will make god not love them.
The irony is, because they "don't love thy neighbor" they end up doing hateful and cruel things, or at least saying them, and that's probably exactly what god didn't want, you know? I never had one of those nutters hit me, but they'd always tell me I was going to hell. Words hurt when they come from the adult figures around you, and you're just a kid.

I think if anyone is going to hell, it is the people who tell other people who have done no wrong, that they are devils and are going to hell for believing something different. I don't believe in a higher power, or hell, for that matter. But it still breaks my heart that the people around me think that I would go to hell, because I *know* what hell is (or at least what people think it is).

Veggie-tales never tells people they are going to hell, and they encourage loving thy neighbor even when different.

So when I have kids I'm going to make them watch it.. over and over, so they can freak out and be all 'yeah I love god, but how do they hold things with no arms and hands?!'