I have a problem in the concept of "feminine" and "masculine". These gender stereotyping words often make me totally confused.

I'm not saying that we should neutralize ourselves but I have a question when people force women to behave like "feminine" or men to behave like "masculine" and condemn them when they behave like out of their character. I think that's depriving them of the right to live as they wish and thus should be prohibited. If the right is something which threatens that of others or causes some bad effects to society then I agree to gender stereotying but I see no harm in letting women behave like masculine and men behave like fenimine.

What do you think?

Well, I'm not sure if this would fit here, exactly, but I read somewhere that boys are still brought up to believe they can't cry, they can't show many emotions (or even have them), and that baby boys usually received less nurturing and cuddling as infants. There are a lot of issues on both extremes (male and female) about gender roles and gender stereotyping and both men and women can be severely hurt by stereotyping.

Eh, if your going to follow stereotypes than whatever. Every guy I know is way more sensitive than I am, and I'm pretty soft inside. I've never really had anyone around me that was forced as a child to grow up with gender stereotypes. The men in my life are still pretty manly, but they all have a soft side when they need it. All the girls in my life are sweet and gentle, but we'll rock your world and take you out if you hurt us.

EX: my older brother. He's got ADD -Attention Deficit Disorder- so he was coddled a bit as a kid. More time more patience, but he's the most dependable person I know if someone wants to hurt me.
Another Example: Me. I was happily raised being as girly as possible. I love skirts and dresses and high heeled shoes. I love stuffed animals and new clothes. But I got a mean right hook, an even better kick, and I love to weld.

I understand how some people may find it painful and problematic, but really, we define ourselves. If you want to be a masculine girl or a feminine boy be whatever, feminine girl and masculine guy, sure. Who cares about a point in our lives we couldn't change, what matters is being true to yourself and not being what others want you to be.

@ Syra:: I just pictured a really beautiful girl wearing a long skirt kicking some bully butt. :lol:

And, my younger brother has Aspergers Syndrome... so I tend to be a bit over protective of him because he got picked on so much as a kid. :lol:

@ Clair - well if you go to my profile I have some pics of me in an album, I'll let you be the judge. I actually did chase down some jerks at my high school in 3 inch heels and an ankle long skirt... granted it had a knee length slit, but I caught up to them, and gave them all a swift kick in the butt. (they were making fun of a friend of mine)

@ Syra:: You're a beautiful force not to be messed with. :cool: That's really awesome. :) That's true loyalty, and should be respected in anyone no matter what their gender is.

I don't have any problems with the concept of "feminine" and "masculine" nor do I think anyone should have a problem with those concepts either. Stereotyping is one thing, saying something or someone is feminine or masculine is another.

As for your second paragraph, whether anyone likes it or not this is going to keep happening. Frankly, I don't give a toss either way; I'm proud of me. As for others, it can go either way. For example, I find it really strange that my friend spends her whole weekends cooking and baking. It's strange for me. The odd thing is, she's behaving like a woman, isn't she? So you see, stereotyping, judging, it happens frequently and it can go both ways. As long as it doesn't mess with anyone's life, I can't really say I see it as something that needs to stop.

The thing is that feminine and masculine are arbitrary and meaningless terms. They are used to separate people, and to make them feel less than others for no good reason. The reason I say arbitrary is that what is considered masculine or feminine changes like the four bloody winds. a while back, only men wore pants. They were masculine. Now women wear them too.

Kilts are man skirts. Shoulder bags are man purses. etc.

When I was a kid I played mostly with stuffed animals, I wanted an Easy Bake Oven more than anything else in the world, and I pretty much only played with girls. I acted very "feminine." I cried when I was sad or hurt, and didn't feel bad about it. As a matter of fact the only "masculine" things about me, are the fact that I'm heterosexual, and know a ton of martial arts.

I do not like sports. I always ask for directions and help studying. etc.

I used to get called "girly boy" and other annoying unimaginative names. I was even once accused of being gay, and got beaten up several times because of it.

Gender stereotypes are bs. That's just a fact.

A family member runs a business and I can not work with certain people there because of the fact they won't let me do what I'm told to do.
They think they're being all manly helping out the small woman when I really do not need their help in the least.
Woman can lift things heavier than most men think they can (generalization based on my region). We can give birth ffs, we can do almost anything else we want to.

As for the stereotypes with men, I like a man that takes care of his appearance. I know a man that pays lots of attention to his hair and even wears make up. I think he looks great. I also like to be able to share emotions with a man I'm dating. If he hides his that isn't going to happen.

I agree with sarofset in the fact that gender stereotypes are bs.

The biggest difference I notice is between my nans generation and mine. For example I might say something, or do a small burp and she'll be like "that's not very ladylike," and it frustrates me because no one every really says 'that's not very gentlemanly' it just makes me think why do I need to limit what I can say or do to fit the template of a perfect lady. I guess thats one of those generation issues.

Eastriel, I only heard the phrase "that isn't gentlemanly" in situations of dishonesty; something both sexes are capable of. Now, using this sentence about a dishonest lady and how little sense it makes is a whole different affair, one much more in line with what this thread is about. There is research going on whether natural languages have evolved in such a way that it is easier for men to express themselves with them than it is for women. There is even an artificial language called Laadan, developed to test this theory.

I get pretty upset when my mom tries to stereotype everything I do as "masculine" or feminine". I'm genderqueer, but I was born a female. The WORST is whenever we're outside and I spit. "That's not very ladylike." What am I supposed to do, then? Swallow it?

yes. lol. yes you are. XD

Lol. Parents have trouble with anything that makes you not exactly what they expected.

I understand how some people may find it painful and problematic, but really, we define ourselves.

It does not matter if we define ourselves as our identity but it does really matter when we find it unquestionable and expand it to everyone . Gender identity is just arbitrary as sorofset pointed out and quite different from sex identity which is a scientific definition. So it cannot be applied to everyone.

Who cares about a point in our lives we couldn't change, what matters is being true to yourself and not being what others want you to be.

That's right. But the problem is there is some people who try to push their concept on gender to everyone including those who do not wish to be like they expect. They want to be true to themselves as you suggested but they cannot because of that kind of people.

Stereotyping is one thing, saying something or someone is feminine or masculine is another.

I don't quite understand this idea. In my opinion, stereotyping and saying feminine or masculine are just the same things. When you say "She is feminine." you are also stereotyping the person whether being aware of it or not. If you are not prejudiced then you should say that "She is gentle, kind, has good sense of what she wears or that kind of things instead of using the word "feminine".

For example, I find it really strange that my friend spends her whole weekends cooking and baking. It's strange for me. The odd thing is, she's behaving like a woman, isn't she? So you see, stereotyping, judging, it happens frequently and it can go both ways.

I don't find that girl's habit strange or anything. I just see it as one side of her personality. Nor I don't find it strange if a boy spends his whole weekends cooking and baking.

As long as it doesn't mess with anyone's life, I can't really say I see it as something that needs to stop.

But it does mess with some people's life and while I don't have a problem when people have some prejudiced ideas I do have a problem when they mistakingly find it implicit and push to others.

The thing is that feminine and masculine are arbitrary and meaningless terms. They are used to separate people, and to make them feel less than others for no good reason. The reason I say arbitrary is that what is considered masculine or feminine changes like the four bloody winds. a while back, only men wore pants. They were masculine. Now women wear them too.

That's a good point. I think gender stereotypes are created by the society you belong to and are used to match their convenience. I say they are just unscientific, illogical and most importantly, harmful to some people.

As for the stereotypes with men, I like a man that takes care of his appearance. I know a man that pays lots of attention to his hair and even wears make up. I think he looks great. I also like to be able to share emotions with a man I'm dating. If he hides his that isn't going to happen.

So gender free cause has good points like you experienced.

My case:I'm a woman and one day in a meeting I participated without any make up. There I was questioned by a woman why I didn't make up at all so I said that's because I just don't like it. Then that woman insisted that it's manners that women wear some make up when they appear in public.
What do you guys think about this? I think that's not called manners at all. While I believe it's manners that you wash your face, comb your hair or brash your teeth before you appear in public because it's unclean if you don't follow those, I find make up is just optional and not neessary. As proof of this men are laughed or frowned upon when they wear some make up in public. It's the same when they wear a skirt in public but some people say they are sissy and even condemn them for it. What they are insisting is just unscientific and doesn't make sense at all.

@ Mirror::
Pfft... Then I'm probably one of the rudest girls out there. I don't wear make up, and I never have (except for when my friends forced it on me and my mother insisted for professional photos a few years ago). I just hate the way it makes my face feel and I don't think it really looks good on me anyways. As for it being "polite" and "manners" for a woman to wear make up, I think that's just plain stupid. It may make women more comfortable- my mum HATES leaving the house without it on... but I'd never go as far as to say that it's good manners.

One interesting fact I learned- and this was taught in a college sociology class, a class I would recommend to EVERYONE- the less educated a person is, the more likely they are to gender stereotype themselves, family members and others.

Originally Posted by Mirror

I don't quite understand this idea. In my opinion, stereotyping and saying feminine or masculine are just the same things. When you say "She is feminine." you are also stereotyping the person whether being aware of it or not. If you are not prejudiced then you should say that "She is gentle, kind, has good sense of what she wears or that kind of things instead of using the word "feminine".

You just stereotyped. Have you noticed that?

Originally Posted by Mirror

I don't find that girl's habit strange or anything. I just see it as one side of her personality. Nor I don't find it strange if a boy spends his whole weekends cooking and baking.

Well I do. But that makes it MY opinion. And you missed my point. Baking and cooking are a woman's stereotypes, so it should not be strange that a woman does this things; yet, I find it odd. Get my point now?

Originally Posted by Mirror

But it does mess with some people's life and while I don't have a problem when people have some prejudiced ideas I do have a problem when they mistakingly find it implicit and push to others.

It only messes with you if you let it. Sorry, but words are just senseless noise until you give them meaning. If you find this to be problematic, raise your voice and awareness. But it seems to me like you're pushing it too far; stereotyping isn't a bad thing per se, only the derogatory uses are. It's like calling someone gay a faggot. If it bothers them, so be it, but faggot is a term for a bundle of sticks, and that never bothered anyone.

I am not really sure what you mean. Though, I know when boys are 'shelted' or their 'hands are held' they tend to be more sensitive. Also, if they do not have a 'fatherly' figure actually in their life where are they to pick up the 'manly' stuff from? I never really had a dad around growing up. I don't really play sports too much. I was the only child in the house as well. *shrugs* I do tend to be more emotionless at times, which I believe is a result of not having my family really around while I was growing up, amongst other things that have happened in life.

Originally Posted by sarofset

yes. lol. yes you are. XD

Lol. Parents have trouble with anything that makes you not exactly what they expected.

I feel ya there. My mom gets on me because I'm a bit of a sloppy eater. Just last night she told me not to slurp my spaghetti because it isn't lady-like. :rofl:


I agree that using the terms "Masculine" and "Feminine" with what we do isn't necessarily the same as stereotyping. A lot of it depends on culture. Usually, here in the US, you won't see a straight man holding hands or even touching another man for that matter unless it's a slap across the shoulder or something. From what I observed, certain actions are meant for certain purposes. Something like holding hands or dancing with another is more sensual. However, in other countries, men are secure enough with themselves to dance with other men and interact in ways which some men would never think of here.

I know that in the culture I was raised in, despite my tomboyish tendencies, I've been feeling a little compelled to cook and clean more often than I used to ever since I started going out with my boyfriend. I'm not one to want to become a housewife someday, and I would never promote the stereotype that a woman's place is in the kitchen, but I just feel the need to be helpful in any way that I can while I don't have work.

Perhaps a part of how "masculine" or "feminine" we act depends on how we were raised, but I also feel that it's a perfectly natural thing. Some girls just won't act like girls for the most part, but they will even have a small percentage of femininity to their actions or ways of thinking. Vise versa for men.

I recently met a girl on omegle, and I'm not really one to give out my "ASL" (as if I would anyway, I don't believe that gives the conversation any substance really). She was super curious to know if I were a boy or a girl, so I listed some of my "masculine" and my "feminine" qualities and she took forever to guess.

Sometimes I'd type "(:" and she's say "Yeah, you're definitely a girl" and then I'd combat it with a "masculine" trait (i.e. my hair being short) and she'd say "Oh, I don't know then.."

Its actually kind of fun. In the end though, she decided I was a boy, and that was that. We also exchanged emails, because we decided that we were cool.

I stopped caring or even really thinking about gender stereotyping a long time ago, probably because I'm so mixed in my own qualities. If someone started pushing me to "act like a girl" there'd probably be a verbal fight very quickly. Stereotyping comes from all types, though - for example, I'm sure there are people out there who would say I don't act like a "real" lesbian because I wear makeup to work, try to keep my fingernails nice, and like pretty hair accessories.

My grandma used to try the whole "it's not ladylike" thing with me. Being the kid I was, I'd shoot back with "who says I'm a lady?" She'd throw a fit. :lol: I didn't understand until later that by ladylike she usually meant just good manners in general.

Originally Posted by Xrabbite

I get pretty upset when my mom tries to stereotype everything I do as "masculine" or feminine". I'm genderqueer, but I was born a female. The WORST is whenever we're outside and I spit. "That's not very ladylike." What am I supposed to do, then? Swallow it?

If your mum used a different phrase, that didn't mention ladylike, would you be happier with that?

Because I'm always disgusted when I see people spitting because it's a gross habit. It's got nothing at all to do with gender, it's just nasty whoever does it.

@ Stormrose Dewleaf
Yeah, I know its for manners and all, but it still annoys me :B

@jellysundae
Not really, but its something my mom says, so its not as much of a big deal as if someone else said it. And yeah, I do admit that spitting is gross, so I try to only do it when nobody can see.

I'm lucky. My mom doesn't seem to care about my beliefs and feelings on the issue. I only use manners because it's trained behavior after twenty one years. lol.

My parents never raised me or my brother (or my sister when they had her) to brand people- meaning either with a race, gender, sexual preference, or belief label. I can't speak for what other people do, but I know that I think stereo-typing anyone in any way is wrong.
When we were little, my brother played with my dolls sometimes and would play dress-up with me. We were never told that that was wrong. And I think that's a good thing. My brother still has me do his makeup for stunts he pulls with his friends and Halloween costumes. :lol: I got to do his make-up when he went to an event for gay rights/anti-bullying. I love that he's not all "OMG GAY" or whatever. It doesn't make him any less of a man. He's very much heterosexual. :lol:

Myself, I am a girly-girl, but I'm not always that emotional. I can be very distant; its a defense mechanism. I wear make-up and dresses, but I'm more comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt. I would rather mow a lawn than clean a house. I "talk like a man".
I'd rather have shots than some frilly girly drink. :XD I enjoy shopping and playing video games equally.
I'm both feminine and masculine.

My dad sews and cooks, and my mom is a classic car buff.
^ Awesome stuff, that.

I don't like masculine men. I like sensitive guys. :yes:

When I have children, if my boy wants to play with dolls and bake cupcakes with me, then that's just adorable. If my girl wants to play with Hotwheels and play in the mud, then that's awesome because that'd be like me when I was a kid. :lol:


I hate stereotypes and I try really hard to never use them.

I for one, love stereotypes.
I, for second, believe that the sensitivity of a person depended greatly on the coping methods of their parents.

I wasn't raised in a household where the father wore the pants, and the mother was supposed to stay in the kitchen and wear dresses and pearls. It wasn't the 50's; my friends had boyfriends at young ages, girls and boys were allowed to play any sport they wanted in school, and people weren't trying to convert natives in to Christians because they were "savages".

It's a different culture where I live, but I've heard it's vastly different in the South. Even so, when you learn to write technically you're supposed to omit any form of masculinity in your writing because people manage to find offense with it.