So what are you? and why?

I am Christian. I believe in one supreme all-loving deity that I call God. He is also very forgiving.......aaaaaannnnnd.....stuff like that.

I have recently heard that some idiot teachers are FORCING kids to pray during the moment of silence in class. Also, a friend had once told me about how an innocent Muslim girl had to pray Christian prayers at the end of their girl scout meetings.

So i guess my question is: do you think this is unfair?

I do. To force kids to practice a religion other than their own (or a lack-there-of) is totally unfair. They shouldn't be forced to do things like that and I'm even Christian! Praying to a God isn't always acceptable in some homes. And people should stop being ignorant and stop going with the majority! Not everyone has a religion and has the right whether to have one or not!

I dunno. what do you think?

I personally am an atheist, I'll say that right off the bat. However, I think that everyone has a right to believe what they want to, so long as they do not attempt to force those beliefs on other people. Freedom of thought is just as important as freedom of speech, if not more so. I personally have gone through things like this. I'm sure many people can relate to having teachers force them to say the Pledge of Allegiance. What I have the most problem with in this example is that they teach you what to say before you can even understand what all of the words mean. It's like taking advantage of someone who doesn't speak a native language by getting them to agree to something that they don't completely understand because of a language barrier. What worse is that teachers are using their position of power over the students to force them to say things that they don't want to. It's disgusting. Teachers are supposed to be people we can trust. Not people we should feel oppressed by.

I am a brand-new Wiccan. my parents don't know it yet and i don't want them to know, considering they force all their idea's down my throat. I also believe people (and children) should have the right to believe in whatever they want and not have to be forced to believe in something else. A forced faith is a false one.

Religion should stay out of school....girl scouts are a private group and have their own rules..if the parents dont like it then they can take their daughter out.

Originally Posted by cashuea

I am a brand-new Wiccan. my parents don't know it yet and i don't want them to know, considering they force all their idea's down my throat. I also believe people (and children) should have the right to believe in whatever they want and not have to be forced to believe in something else. A forced faith is a false one.

Are you Wiccan? Or Pagan?
Difference is Wiccan is a mystery fertility cult founded by Gerald Gardner in the 1950s I think. It is a practice and not a religion. You must join a coven and be initiated, and the covens will not initiate someone if they are not 18 or higher because of the sexual acts and practices they do.

Pagan is a general religious term who believes in a religion that worships more than the monotheistic God in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.
Nature Worshippers, Elemental worshippers, seasonal worshippers, multi-god worshippers, and most magick practitioners all fall under this category.
I am a pagan/neo-pagan, though I am looking into becoming Wiccan possibly in the future.
I do believe there are higher beings, but I also worship the elements (Fire, Water, Earth, Air, and Spirit.)

@OP: I do not think it is right that public schools imply certain religious practices. The constitution draws the line saying "Separation of Church and State" Religion versus Government in essence. They should and always remain separate.
Granted, this raises the question of the Dollar Bill and the National Anthem and the religious symbolism they both have. I personally, don't care. One is a song, the other is currency or an object.
As far as private institutions such as Girl Scouts...they do have that right as the Constitution does not make any interference in private institutions since they are not run by the government.
Is it fair that some schools do this? Absolutely not, however the only way to change this is to go before the courts with your case. Most people will not take the effort to do so, but if done properly it can and will be removed from the schools in question.
Everyone is entitled to their own religion and beliefs, and no one should intrude upon those without being asked first. Debates/Discussions are fine, but trying to convert unwilling people is completely unacceptable as that interferes with one's own pursuit of happiness.

Yup yup, Tutela said it all. I myself am a practicing pagan and have been for...6 years now, I turn 21 this month. :)

Wicca is, in fact, a fertility cult. The military is the only thing that even considers it a religion, but only in the sense that soldiers are allowed to practice it and honor the Sabbats.

The only way to learn the secrets of Wicca (Gardnerian at least) is to be initiated into a lineaged coven. To actually be able to call yourself a Wiccan you must complete training and the Great Rite, which is sexual in nature.

I used to aspire to join a Wiccan coven and earn the title myself, but have been unable to find a reliable coven. So at the moment I'm just working on learning what I can and teaching myself what I can while practicing what I feel is right and how I want. :)

Edit: Also, as to the whole girl scout thing. It is a church run organization from what I know. If she doesn't like it she shouldn't be doing it. Also, if the schools are private Christian schools, gonna have to suck it up. I also hate when people feel like they shouldn't have to stand for the pledge of allegiance. I understand that "under god" is in there, but skip it when you say it, or ignore it. You're not saying the pledge for any God. You're saying it to honor all the men and women who died so that you could have the right to decide what God you'd believe in. It's just wrong to not stand up for that, and if you believe we should have the right to whatever religion we want, then you should stand up for the damned flag; because that is exactly what that represents.

I've wanted to study Wiccan or Paganism for the longest time, when my mother found out that I was trying to study it, she told me to go ahead and pack my bags because she "wouldn't have a witch" in the family. Since then I stopped.

In school back in Jr. High, I told people that I didn't believe in God. Immediately all my classmates who I thought were my friends ditched me and spread the rumor that I was a Satanist. I was then surrounded by a bunch of girls accusing me of being a non-believer and shunned. The next day, I had to apologize and say I do believe in God just different from the Bible (not true), and they forgave me because they thought I was just a mis-guided Christian. Some friends they were T_T;;

Can someone find me examples of similar things happening? I don't doubt it's happening, but I do doubt that nothing's cropped up in the news about it...

Originally Posted by Tutela de Xaoc

Are you Wiccan? Or Pagan?
Difference is Wiccan is a mystery fertility cult founded by Gerald Gardner in the 1950s I think. It is a practice and not a religion. You must join a coven and be initiated, and the covens will not initiate someone if they are not 18 or higher because of the sexual acts and practices they do.

Pagan is a general religious term who believes in a religion that worships more than the monotheistic God in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.
Nature Worshippers, Elemental worshippers, seasonal worshippers, multi-god worshippers, and most magick practitioners all fall under this category.
I am a pagan/neo-pagan, though I am looking into becoming Wiccan possibly in the future.
I do believe there are higher beings, but I also worship the elements (Fire, Water, Earth, Air, and Spirit.)

Oh, so their is a difference eh? Goes to show how ignorant i am -_-;
I guess i be pagan then since their is no covens anywhere near where i live. stupid bible belt! Oh well, so much for that...

... Wicca is not a fertility cult. ~_~ It is a natural religion based on the worship of a Goddess and a God. To be Wiccan, you do not have to be in a coven. Solitary witches predate covens by hundreds of years. You do not have to be involved with sex magic to be a Wiccan, either, but I will say that Wicca finds no shame in something so bloody natural as the sexual union between two people like certain other religions may.

Not all the covens are the same, either, and there are various branches of Wicca just as there are in Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc, etc, etc. Gardner is credited with reintroducing Wicca into modern society, but his branch of Wicca is not the only one there is.

Having said that, I'm studying the path of Buddhism. Buddhism speaks to me, and I find great joy and comfort when I read the words of His Holiness, the Dalai Lama. (Not sure if I want to focus on Tibetan Buddhism, though.)

One nice thing about Buddhism is that there is a great level of tolerance and acceptance. There is an understanding that not everyone can follow the same path, nor the same level of commitment on said path. As long as you follow what you believe, it's all good. Of course, it's better if you figure out that there is no inherent existence in the universe and accept that wisdom, but not everyone is perfect, and hey... there's always the next life to try.

I had a woman invite me to her church over the summer and when I told her I didn't want to go she asked me why. Upon learning it, she told me with great emotion that she'd pray for me to come back to Jesus. ~_~

Something tells me my mother does something similar. She's Mormon and is lamenting the fact that she's lost one daughter to Wicca and another to Buddhism.

Also, cashuea, where approximately do you live. I bet you'd be surprised at the non-Christian religious groups in your area. I live in the Bible Belt, too, and there's an eclectic Wiccan coven in my area. o_o

Originally Posted by Sen Lee

Also, cashuea, where approximately do you live. I bet you'd be surprised at the non-Christian religious groups in your area. I live in the Bible Belt, too, and there's an eclectic Wiccan coven in my area. o_o

Tulsa, Oklahoma. Also, good to know that i was orgionally right about Wicca. I have no idea why people think its exclusively one thing.

I'm agnostic. I believe that there is a chance that there is a god, but I do doubt it. I've had people ask me my religion, well, more like ask me if I was Christian, and when I said no they said "Oh, so you're athiest?" -.-"

About putting religion in schools, I think it's a stupid idea. Public schools are extremely diverse, and to press the beliefs of other religions on those who don't agree is arrogant and insensitive. There was one guy in my science class last year who was very Christian and when we were doing our unit on evolution he asked to be excused from the entire unit and the teacher excused him. I understand that he might not agree with it, but that's no reason to leave and neglect having an education. I don't see how he couldn't have stayed to at least learn more about what others believe.

You should hit up Google to see if there is any kind of coven in or around Tulsa, though I will say it might be hard since a lot of them still don't want to be found.

I have a suggestion if you're interested, though. The coven that my sister contacted gave her a list of suggested reading. One of the books was Wicca For One: The Path Of Solitary Witchcraft by Raymond Buckland. I found it a very good, informative book. I will admit that Buckland is rather... vain, and you shouldn't go just on what he says (there are other books out there, and he has a pretty good bibliography in the back of his), but it's a good start.

My sister is choosing to be a solitary witch. Even as a solitary you are a priest/ess of Wicca, so you don't need to feel as if you ~have~ to join a coven to be official. In fact, Buckland addresses that in his book.

Lots and lots of people have misconceptions about Wicca, which is made harder to deal with because there are authors out there who will write what they think will sell or books based on heresay, a single source, or blatantly biased sources. It's a lot to sift through, but if you are seriously considering Wicca, I wish you luck! ^_^

Oh! And I meant to say something about the separation of Church and State. The point of that clause is so that the United States government cannot choose a single religious organization as the backbone of the government. In other words, we can't end up with a theocracy. However, you have to remember that this country was founded by Christians with Christian ideals. We will not, nor should we, attempt to suppress that fact or get rid of the influence.

We also shouldn't cling to it. Our country is probably the most diverse on the face of the planet and we have to accept that, and our country and our society should grow and change to embrace such things.

Basically, leave the Commandments in the court houses and the "In God we trust" on our money, but remember that not everyone is Christian and consider that in making laws concerning such things as gay marriage and abortion.

Originally Posted by Tutela de Xaoc

Are you Wiccan? Or Pagan?
Difference is Wiccan is a mystery fertility cult founded by Gerald Gardner in the 1950s I think. It is a practice and not a religion. You must join a coven and be initiated, and the covens will not initiate someone if they are not 18 or higher because of the sexual acts and practices they do.

Pagan is a general religious term who believes in a religion that worships more than the monotheistic God in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.
Nature Worshippers, Elemental worshippers, seasonal worshippers, multi-god worshippers, and most magick practitioners all fall under this category.

Wicca doesn't require one to be initiated. Traditional Gardenian Wicca does, but in order to be a Wiccan but not a traditional Gardenian one, you just have to follow the Wiccan traditions.

I have been into Wicca for 7 years, though I'm more inclined to say i'm a pagan who follows Wicca. I have always wanted to find a coven, but I highly doubt there are any where I live.

Thanks for the book suggestion Sen Lee <3 i will see if i can find it. I have tried google already with no luck. If their is any, they really don't want to be found. :( As far as church and state, i agree that they need to be separate. We are a nation of many faiths. To pick one over the other would only be discrimination to the others.

I'm sure you can understand why they stay hidden, though, especially in the Bible Belt. Along with the many misconceptions people have about Wicca, there is a lot of unfounded prejudice that floats about it. A lot of that stems from issues hundres of years old, back when Christianity was making a name for itself in pagan areas. A lot of bad things you here about pagan religions is, sadly, propaganda from Christian sects that want to squash them due to ignorance or intolerance.

You weren't, Cashuea (sorry to put it so bluntly >.<). Sen Lee, witchcraft is NOT Wicca. Wicca is a witchcraft-based religion; however, it is not in any way the same thing as witchcraft and so witchcraft existing before 1950 proves nothing about Wicca's age. There is NO historical backing to the claim that Wicca is older than that. The theory is simply made up out of thin air, largely based on Murray's now-defunct theories on an ancient witchcult that we now know simply did not exist and people like Silver Ravenwolf who couldn't get into a real coven and so decided to spread lies and misinformation about Wicca to make money. Please, do your reasearch, Cashuea. There's nothing wrong with non-Wiccan pagan religions, and you may find that there is something else out there that interests you far more! If you need help researching religions, I'd be happy to assist you in any way I can. But know that Wicca was created as an orthopraxy, meaning that what you believe holds little to no relevance and so doing what Gardner laid down is what makes what you do Wicca. And big parts of that are the fertility rites and the necessity of being initiated in order to hold the title of Wiccan. There's also the minor detail of certain mysteries -- the true core of Wiccan practice -- that are only revealed to initiates, as well as certain rites that are not known to the uninitiated. It would essentially be like trying to be a solitary Freemason. Now, solitary Wiccans do exist, but rather than what Sen Lee described, they are people who were initiated into Wicca and then, for whatever reason, left their coven. They are not people who have never had any contact with other Wiccans and just decided to claim a title. And despite what people are telling you, what I've described is not limited to "Gardenarian Wicca". There are at least two other branches -- Alexandrian and...I forget the other's name -- which are entirely valid and still hold true to the core practices of Wicca.

Okay, now that that's in order ^^ I practice the Feri Tradition, as well as Reclaiming (two neopagan religions), and I also draw from liberal or "secular" Quakerism. I'm not sure you'll find anyone, not even Christians, who thinks forcing students to go against their religious beliefs is okay :P Freedom of religion must be seen as including freedom from religion.

I.. am very confused right now. :o I have people telling me one thing and some another. I am trying to find books pertaining to wicca and/or paganism. Don't get me wrong, i don't just follow the first book i read.. it is just hard telling what is real and what is made up. I do have a genuine interest in it, i just am not able to tell who is being truthful. If you can help, please do!

I don't feel like debating on what Wicca is and is not, nor how it relates to witchcraft and the fact that not all witchcraft is Wiccan and etc. It's too big a topic that I don't have quite enough information about. As I said, I'm a studying Buddhist.

What I ~do~ know is that Cashuea needs to do her own investigation and find out what seems right to her. I gave her a title to read, I'm sure she could check the library or Amazon.com or whatever and find more.

So I'm going to agree to disagree, because I'm sorry, but I find you to be incorrect.

I'm sorry you're getting confused, Cashuea! ;_;

cashuea, a lot of times it's a case of the good groups don't advertise. So they are pretty hard to find. Are there any Wiccan-y shops or anything in your area? That would be a good place to start looking.

A good website to check out is witchvox.com. Sure, that's not always the best place to look, but it depends on how much is listed where you live. It has information for other people in the area, and even shops and events. I do know people who have found covens on there, so you never know, you could get lucky.

and sorry you're confused. I've definitely been in that situation before. But it pretty much is a matter of reading some things, in books and online, and deciding for yourself.

Originally Posted by Liath

cashuea, a lot of times it's a case of the good groups don't advertise. So they are pretty hard to find. Are there any Wiccan-y shops or anything in your area? That would be a good place to start looking.

A good website to check out is witchvox.com. Sure, that's not always the best place to look, but it depends on how much is listed where you live. It has information for other people in the area, and even shops and events. I do know people who have found covens on there, so you never know, you could get lucky.

Their is no shops like that around here. Believe me, i read and reread the yellowpages and google maps looking for them! Sure their are candle shops but that is as close as it gets. Funny, their is a church on every other block but no other faiths for miles. Maybe i am overlooking something.

Isn't Tulsa the capitol? Or at least a larger city of sorts? There has to be something else there. Or... is the midwest as bad as I'd always suspected? (I'm being half-serious, so no offence meant!)

Are there any shops that sell things like incense or imported things or something? Something new age-y?

No, Oklahoma City is the capital. It is the second largest city in Oklahoma though. And yes, its almost as bad as they say. their really isn't anything new-ageish here. the only thing that comes close is romancing the stone but thats mainly a hippie store.

Hey, it's a start. Hippies tend to go against the "machine," so...

*shrugs* Well, things like this are why there is the option of being a Solitary. You can initiate yourself, you can practice by yourself. If you ever move and still want to join a coven, you can try to find one and be initiated into it. But you do have the option, even if you are all alone in Christian Tulsa. >_>

I know. I just wish their was a coven or support group here. Books only take you so far and i am not very good at doing things by myself... i am waay to much of a people person XD