Originally Posted by Doug Savage

When did the concept of personal responsibility get kicked to the curb by all the addiction and other excuses? A new trend seems to be in the works, that when someone does something terrible, just blame it on an addiction or the people or persons they have wronged.

- Note that it's not actually a 'new' concept.

Whatever Happened To Personal Responsibility?

Another interesting read on the matter. "The Error of the Self Esteem Movement."

What do you define personal responsibility as?
When does one stop being a "victim" and when is it our fault?
Who is responsible?
Do you think our society today teaches people that nothing is our fault?
Do you feel personal responsibility is important?
What factors do you feel (if any) should "null" personal responsibility? (addiction, mental illness, ect)

Personal responsibility is very important, even if all the factors are against you it is your responsibility to do everything in your power to over come all disadvantages. If you try and fail then it's still better than just laying around and saying you can't do it like I see a lot of people doing. No one else should ever have to pick up your slack, I don't care how disadvantaged you are, there is some way for you to contribute something.

A prime example of what I'm talking about is my cousin, an able bodied young man with average intelligence who has had many chances given to him by the government and my family to succeed in life.

He quit his job because it was "To hard to get up that early." He knocked some girl up and played daddy for the first two years then left and now he drops by for visits when he feels like it. However if you ask him for money so his daughter can buy clothes then starts saying. "Well, I didn't ask to have a kid. Why do I have to do every thing for her?"

People keep bailing him out of jail and covering his debts and sending him to rehab. I personally think it's time to cut the cord and let him sink or swim on his own.

I think people should be allowed one second chance to fix up their lives, after that they are no longer anyone's responsibility but their own. Not Even The Government's It disgusts me that the system will cater to people like my cousin and provide him with limitless unemployment and welfare as long as he checks into rehab a certain number of times a year. He makes all the minimum requirements to keep the checks coming and that's all he does. He has no incentive to be responsible and it's high time someone put a boot up his ass and told him he'd better work or he'll get nothing. As long as his welfare keeps coming he won't ever try to better himself, and there are single women with children and minimum wadge jobs who need it more than him that aren't getting it because his white trash ass is sitting around playing video games and using up the tax payers money and he's only one of thousands just like him.

Sorry about the rant but this kind of thing pisses me off.


Now obviously there are people with severe handicaps, there is no way for them to be productive citizens and I don't think it's their fault so I can understand if they need help. But lazy people don't deserve jack squat!!!

(I'm usually more eloquent than this but I'm a bit peeved at the moment)

So, you disagree with things like the flavored tobacco ban?

I do, at least, because..well...Flavored Cigarettes are Gone...But Teenagers Still Smoke! And since when is it the governments' responsibilty to keep your kids from smoking? Isn't that something the parent should do?

Originally Posted by Banning Flavored Cigarettes - When Parents Need to Take Back Responsibility from the Government (product summary)

The recent ban on flavored cigarettes by the federal government is being justified as a measure to protect our children. Limitless time and resources are spent by the government year after year on laws that infringe on free choice because we have become incapable of accepting responsibility, as both individuals and parents. Scott Sokol writes this captivating article asking us to take back our children and stop blaming society, capitalism, and government for our own short comings. We have the responsibility of keeping the cigarettes out of our children's mouths, not the government.

But yes, overall, I agree with you. A couple chances, no more, and then cut 'em loose. Everyone should be allowed to make a few mistakes in life, but when they fail to own up and try to fix them, it's when I have a problem.

Flavored Tobacco ban?That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard....even with all of the information about health and smoking people still choose to light up. And I would usually say let them. It's their body they should be allowed to do what they want. I also don't like that the government feels that it's up to them to make people eat healthy. These are things I consider personal responsibilities. The government should not interfere with your private life and as long as what your doing isn't illegal then they shouldn't care.

People need to be accountable for themselves. They need to make their own choices and mistakes. They won't learn if they go on being sheltered and coddled. I think people need to mess up at least once to learn to cope with life. I'm conservative so I'm very anit-government interference. I tend to feel smaller government is a good thing.

Just a minor correction... unemployment benefits are not limitless. You only get it for so long.

Carry on. ;D

People are just getting lazy! I totally agree its very important to own up to the damage a person has cause. And continues to cause to themselves and the people around them. Their problemS are their crutch . Always the victum oh poor me.

Originally Posted by Keyori

Just a minor correction... unemployment benefits are not limitless. You only get it for so long.

Carry on. ;D

There are people though who get a job, keep it for as long as they can, and then quit and collect unemployment. I'm not saying it's a majority, but it happens. :/

Originally Posted by monstahh`

There are people though who get a job, keep it for as long as they can, and then quit and collect unemployment. I'm not saying it's a majority, but it happens. :/

That's what my cousin does...he also goes to job interviews so that he can legitimately pretend he tried. He's kept his unemployment coming in by doing this...The bum can't stir his stump to go to work but he puts as much time an thought into abusing the system as he can.

You don't automatically get to collect unemployment benefits if you quit your job. In fact, collecting those benefits is pretty difficult to do - you need to prove that you quit with "good cause," such as legitimate mistreatment or sexual harassment.

I think a lot of them conveniently find ways to get "let go" my cousin likes to use his past drug problems as a reason he has trouble finding and keeping a job,(he likes to claim that people hold it against him and judge him) he still gets welfare and as far as I know he's still collecting unemployment checks, you'd be surprised at the lengths some people will go to to get government money. You'd almost think having the job would be easier...

Originally Posted by Faulkner

I think a lot of them conveniently find ways to get "let go" my cousin likes to use his past drug problems as a reason he has trouble finding and keeping a job,(he likes to claim that people hold it against him and judge him) he still gets welfare and as far as I know he's still collecting unemployment checks, you'd be surprised at the lengths some people will go to to get government money. You'd almost think having the job would be easier...

If I could I would collect those but I don't qualify. I've been job hunting for three years... I can't understand quitting and finding a new job in this economy. Sadly I'm running out of places to apply to... although my supply of places just might be expanding. I'd apply and then get 0 callbacks. :(

People still label me as lazy because I look and theres nothing. I constantly get asked about getting a job and I feel so harassed by it. Its the first thing people ask. Makes me never want to leave the house, actually. Unless I actually find a job, that is. You can only apply so many times to so many places until of course theres none left for the day. Yet, everyone thinks that its ALL you should do. Its like, when theres none left for the day I'm going to play my game. ALl I can do is wait until the next day and theres more. Sometimes there isn't. Its not exactly a booming town. And of course to move you have to actually have a job so getting out of here to a place with more jobs is not an option...

I hate how people think I'm a bum because I can't find a job. But everyone wants experience. I have none. I need money soon though so I may check into SSI Disability which I got when I was a kid (heart and growing problem), but I've told my boyfriend numerous times that its something I got because my medicine (shots for growing) were expensive. With the money we got insurance and it all stopped when I was 18.

Everyone also gets mad that I won't learn to drive. I'm a person who steers clear of fears. If i fear something I just stay away. I don't face things head-on. I never have. It doesn't mean I have no responsibility. It just means I want to be safe.

Originally Posted by Doomfishy

You don't automatically get to collect unemployment benefits if you quit your job. In fact, collecting those benefits is pretty difficult to do - you need to prove that you quit with "good cause," such as legitimate mistreatment or sexual harassment.

It depends on where you live and how the system there is set up. Where I lived before... it's not hard to collect unemployment for the first couple months (at the very least, the first month), after that you have to prove you're trying to find a job, and then after about 4 to 5 months they start cutting off benefits. It just depends on the company, and the laws where you are..

And unless you were fired for theft or I think lying...It's not hard to collect unemployment either. Getting fired makes it a lot easier
-It ALL depends on the company you were working for, and if they're going to fight your unemployment claim.
That said, a lot of companies will do their best to not have to pay unemployment benefits by making you quit first.

It doesn't happen often that people abuse the system like that, but it does happen sometimes, and it's still wrong to abuse the system.

Originally Posted by PixieSunBelle

If I could I would collect those but I don't qualify. I've been job hunting for three years... I can't understand quitting and finding a new job in this economy. Sadly I'm running out of places to apply to... although my supply of places just might be expanding. I'd apply and then get 0 callbacks. :(

People still label me as lazy because I look and theres nothing. I constantly get asked about getting a job and I feel so harassed by it. Its the first thing people ask. Makes me never want to leave the house, actually. Unless I actually find a job, that is. You can only apply so many times to so many places until of course theres none left for the day. Yet, everyone thinks that its ALL you should do. Its like, when theres none left for the day I'm going to play my game. ALl I can do is wait until the next day and theres more. Sometimes there isn't. Its not exactly a booming town. And of course to move you have to actually have a job so getting out of here to a place with more jobs is not an option...

I hate how people think I'm a bum because I can't find a job. But everyone wants experience. I have none. I need money soon though so I may check into SSI Disability which I got when I was a kid (heart and growing problem), but I've told my boyfriend numerous times that its something I got because my medicine (shots for growing) were expensive. With the money we got insurance and it all stopped when I was 18.

Everyone also gets mad that I won't learn to drive. I'm a person who steers clear of fears. If i fear something I just stay away. I don't face things head-on. I never have. It doesn't mean I have no responsibility. It just means I want to be safe.

I'm in almost the same boat; I have never had a job despite the fact that I applied to every available position that I could for years. When that was getting me nowhere, one of the few people who wasn't constantly harassing me about having a job suggested vocational rehabilitation. I have been diagnosed with Asperger's, so I was allowed to enter the program--and still nothing happened. All they did was take me out to apply for more places which continued to turn me down. There was a single place that seemed promising, but they turned around and said that they could no longer afford to hire anyone. Everyone wanted experience, which I could not have because no one would ever hire without it. Eventually I moved and still had no luck in the new area, and it was suggested to me (because of my condition) to apply for SSI Disability. I didn't want to, but because I badly needed money, I applied--and was denied. I am lucky to have found a husband who manages to support the both of us (though with very little) and has insurance that will cover my medical needs. However, in the period between being dropped by Medicaid and being added to his insurance, I acquired a debt of a few thousand dollars because of the medication I need. So now I am planning on entering vocational rehabilitation a second time (hoping that the services in this area yield more results).
So I know the feeling of being unable to find work and requiring as much assistance as one can get. We have food stamps and live in a budget apartment that bases rent on income--and once I do get a job, things will actually become more difficult because the rent will rise but we will still be in need of money (unless I somehow manage to get some magnificent high-paying job, which with my condition and lack of experience is pretty much impossible).
I do understand that there will be people out there who "abuse the system", and having struggled so much with it and with trying not to have to be a part of it, that does seem quite unfair. I still can't stand to hear some people talk about how people who use these services are just lazy bums, because I know that's hardly true--though with exceptions, of course, just like everything else in life.
When it comes to the government taking care of people, yes, there will always be holes here and there, but knowing the difficulty of getting and staying on one's feet, I find it better to not make assumptions. Unless it can be proved that someone is honestly not trying, there is nothing that can be done about the case.

On the topic of "personal responsibility" in general, sometimes I feel that people need to be held more accountable for their own actions and allowed to make decisions for themselves. For example, if a person wishes to endanger his own health while knowing the risks, let him. Make sure that he is informed, but allow him to make the choice for himself.
However, I do feel that those who need or seek help should be allowed it without question or judgment. Sometimes dealing with one's own issues requires a helping hand.
While a lot of situations do boil down to personal choice, there will always be underlying environmental and even biological factors which influence those choices. No two people are the same and thus taking certain actions may be more of a choice for some than others, even under similar circumstances. "If I can do it, so can you" is a dangerous path of thought.
Really, what defines personal responsibility is a matter of the individual. As long as one is capable of making informed decisions, he is accountable for those decisions--but being accountable doesn't necessarily mean having to struggle on his own, should he seek assistance. In the meantime, I am in no place to judge whether or not someone is fully accountable for his situation, nor do I feel anyone else is. I'm not concerned with how something happened so much as how it will be treated so that hopefully people will learn and not allow things to repeat.
/ramble

Originally Posted by monstahh`

What do you define personal responsibility as?
When does one stop being a "victim" and when is it our fault?
Who is responsible?
Do you think our society today teaches people that nothing is our fault?
Do you feel personal responsibility is important?
What factors do you feel (if any) should "null" personal responsibility? (addiction, mental illness, ect)

I liked the self esteem article, as I have noticed this myself.

-Personal Responsibility is taking well, responsibility for what you do. Whether or not there is a psychological excuse for it or not, you still chose to do it.

-It depends on what it is. When someone is attacked (mugged, raped, etc.), they are a victim. If they let it define them, they decide to let their status as a real victim become an excuse to no longer take responsibility.

-We are responsible for ourselves. There are few instances that we cannot stop from happening, or had little control over. Largely, as said above, this is when people attack us. How we deal with it is another story...

-Yes, I do believe that it does. I have met so many people, even people twice my age, that claim nothing is their fault, they are perfect, whatever, and anything bad that happens or anything that goes wrong is the fault of someone else. And that 'someone else' usually ends up being whoever they're mad at or whoever is not babying them.

-I feel it is very important. I have met many people who are constantly 'victims', and sadly, I'm having to deal with someone who is victim no matter what she does. She could probably hit someone or do something equally horrible and then blame it on them and say that they made her do it, etc. I find that people are weak when they take this much of a victim stance on their life that nothing is their fault.

-There are few instances, like I mentioned before, such as when one is attacked. (Assault, rape, etc.), where it is not their fault and they should not have to take responsibility, but whether they choose to stay the victim is another story entirely. If you were attacked and you chose to let it forever scar your psyche, then you are not taking personal responsibility. Mind you, some people use the 'I'm not a victim' approach as a way to avoid dealing with the issue, which is again not taking responsibility.

Originally Posted by monstahh`

It depends on where you live and how the system there is set up. Where I lived before... it's not hard to collect unemployment for the first couple months (at the very least, the first month), after that you have to prove you're trying to find a job, and then after about 4 to 5 months they start cutting off benefits. It just depends on the company, and the laws where you are..

And unless you were fired for theft or I think lying...It's not hard to collect unemployment either. Getting fired makes it a lot easier
-It ALL depends on the company you were working for, and if they're going to fight your unemployment claim.
That said, a lot of companies will do their best to not have to pay unemployment benefits by making you quit first.

It doesn't happen often that people abuse the system like that, but it does happen sometimes, and it's still wrong to abuse the system.

But you would think though that they'd notice a pattern after a while...if a person consistently makes only the minimum requirements and continues to find reasons to lose or quit their job then maybe they should be a little less willing to give them the check.

I know a few people who really need money but don't qualify for financial aid because they make just enough that they are at or barely over the income limit. They work very hard and have families to support but while people like my cousin can sit and play his video games all day because he knows his check will keep coming in, they get nothing and are even in danger of losing their possessions because they can no longer afford to pay for them. So they are constantly looking for work or they are like me and they are enrolled in a school that will give them job training so they can go directly to work when they are done.

I really think the government should look a little more closely at who they give money to, because around here more often than not people who don't deserve it get it before people who could really use it. I've even seen them deny people disability because they were married and their spouse made money or they didn't "seem" as disabled as they should have.


In my state at least, the government has a tenancy to help the wrong people. Because of the way the system here is set up a person who keeps losing jobs is more likely to get help than someone who has never had a job. Collecting disability is almost impossible unless you have an obvious physical problem. You can be diagnosed with schizophrenia and be less likely to get help than a recovering drug addict.

Originally Posted by Glitter Golgotha

I'm in almost the same boat; I have never had a job despite the fact that I applied to every available position that I could for years. When that was getting me nowhere, one of the few people who wasn't constantly harassing me about having a job suggested vocational rehabilitation. I have been diagnosed with Asperger's, so I was allowed to enter the program--and still nothing happened. All they did was take me out to apply for more places which continued to turn me down. There was a single place that seemed promising, but they turned around and said that they could no longer afford to hire anyone. Everyone wanted experience, which I could not have because no one would ever hire without it. Eventually I moved and still had no luck in the new area, and it was suggested to me (because of my condition) to apply for SSI Disability. I didn't want to, but because I badly needed money, I applied--and was denied. I am lucky to have found a husband who manages to support the both of us (though with very little) and has insurance that will cover my medical needs. However, in the period between being dropped by Medicaid and being added to his insurance, I acquired a debt of a few thousand dollars because of the medication I need. So now I am planning on entering vocational rehabilitation a second time (hoping that the services in this area yield more results).
So I know the feeling of being unable to find work and requiring as much assistance as one can get. We have food stamps and live in a budget apartment that bases rent on income--and once I do get a job, things will actually become more difficult because the rent will rise but we will still be in need of money (unless I somehow manage to get some magnificent high-paying job, which with my condition and lack of experience is pretty much impossible).
I do understand that there will be people out there who "abuse the system", and having struggled so much with it and with trying not to have to be a part of it, that does seem quite unfair. I still can't stand to hear some people talk about how people who use these services are just lazy bums, because I know that's hardly true--though with exceptions, of course, just like everything else in life.
When it comes to the government taking care of people, yes, there will always be holes here and there, but knowing the difficulty of getting and staying on one's feet, I find it better to not make assumptions. Unless it can be proved that someone is honestly not trying, there is nothing that can be done about the case.

On the topic of "personal responsibility" in general, sometimes I feel that people need to be held more accountable for their own actions and allowed to make decisions for themselves. For example, if a person wishes to endanger his own health while knowing the risks, let him. Make sure that he is informed, but allow him to make the choice for himself.
However, I do feel that those who need or seek help should be allowed it without question or judgment. Sometimes dealing with one's own issues requires a helping hand.
While a lot of situations do boil down to personal choice, there will always be underlying environmental and even biological factors which influence those choices. No two people are the same and thus taking certain actions may be more of a choice for some than others, even under similar circumstances. "If I can do it, so can you" is a dangerous path of thought.
Really, what defines personal responsibility is a matter of the individual. As long as one is capable of making informed decisions, he is accountable for those decisions--but being accountable doesn't necessarily mean having to struggle on his own, should he seek assistance. In the meantime, I am in no place to judge whether or not someone is fully accountable for his situation, nor do I feel anyone else is. I'm not concerned with how something happened so much as how it will be treated so that hopefully people will learn and not allow things to repeat.
/ramble

I got denied unemployment because the company I worked for lied and said that my winter school schedule was my winter break schedule which was only 3 days a week due to them scheduling my the school week 3-11pm which made it utterly impossible to keep good grades. My front end manager was a bitch. So, I ended up getting nothing. I would have probably only got like $60 a week- if that. On my school schedule I made about $70-90/weekly unless it was summer or break. But I had it with her scheduling me 3-11pm when I was struggling with getting homework done on time, slipping grades, and already having difficulties in math... there was no way. Of course they used it against me. They laid me off and never called me back. It was all bullshit. Two years later I came back and asked for my job back and they handed me an application. I'm thinking... really- i worked for you for 3 years! I went home and threw it out. That place really made me hate life. It was totally better than my old paper route though.... now that job really made me hate life more. I quit that shit when one Christmas I passed out when I entered the door to my house. The worse the weather was, the longer I took. I decided it wasn't worth it anymore. I had to find something else. That something else was the evil supermarket. I will NEVER go back to either of them.

Originally Posted by Faulkner

But you would think though that they'd notice a pattern after a while...if a person consistently makes only the minimum requirements and continues to find reasons to lose or quit their job then maybe they should be a little less willing to give them the check.

I know a few people who really need money but don't qualify for financial aid because they make just enough that they are at or barely over the income limit. They work very hard and have families to support but while people like my cousin can sit and play his video games all day because he knows his check will keep coming in, they get nothing and are even in danger of losing their possessions because they can no longer afford to pay for them. So they are constantly looking for work or they are like me and they are enrolled in a school that will give them job training so they can go directly to work when they are done.

I really think the government should look a little more closely at who they give money to, because around here more often than not people who don't deserve it get it before people who could really use it. I've even seen them deny people disability because they were married and their spouse made money or they didn't "seem" as disabled as they should have.


In my state at least, the government has a tenancy to help the wrong people. Because of the way the system here is set up a person who keeps losing jobs is more likely to get help than someone who has never had a job. Collecting disability is almost impossible unless you have an obvious physical problem. You can be diagnosed with schizophrenia and be less likely to get help than a recovering drug addict.

You'd think, sadly, I've heard and seen people do it, so I don't know what to say.

Speaking of disability, in NY state I classify as disabled because of severe ADHD, social anxiety and severe bipolar and some allergies and severe IBS and stress-migraines (basically customer service and food service jobs are not options for me, because I'll get sick or freak the fuck out.)

But here in NC, I *might* only qualify for some vocational assistance (I'm not sure, my boyfriend is telling me I do, but when I checked their site, it said I don't qualify for anything at all, at least that was my impression...will get back to you about it if I find out.)
In NC you need a severe physical disability that keeps you from working. Or, you need to be very very very mentally ill...I'm not sure even schizophrenia counts. My impression was mental illness is not a valid reason at all when I was looking at their disability services. I was considering trying to apply for disability here because I can't seem to find a job, and I can't afford school right now. VESID (NY state's disability 'Vocational and Educational Services for Individuals with Disabilities') program not only helped me with assistance to find a job, they also provided money for textbooks and other academic assistance, so that I could go to college and get a job that I could, you know, do.
It certainly didn't pay me either to sit on my ass. Part of my conditions for the assistance was I stay in school, or find a job--and if I couldn't find a job, they could place me in one.

It puts me in a bad place, as well as many many people who are worse off.

That all said, I still tried looking into everything else, and spent months applying for jobs in high school before I said fuck it, and applied to VESID just as I was turning 18.

It's very frustrating for someone in my place, I legitimately need help, but it's not available to me.

However, think of the alternative. A lot of my peers who applied to vesid, got in, and they don't really need the help. They can old jobs just fine, they're just a little bit ADHD. :/ I know this, because they were bragging about it, I mean wtf? Taking disability or unemployment is not something to be proud of...

O__O I LIVE IN NC!

Basically the only way to get help here is to maim yourself or figure out how to play the system.

I definitely agree that the people in charge of these programs need to look more carefully into who gets what and why. It seems that when I applied,they hardly skimmed over my applications at all, considering the fact that out of the multiple reasons I mentioned for applying, they only focused on a single one--and of course, the least severe one, at that (it was listed because it caused issues when interacting with the rest, not because I would have considered a disability on its own--which I was sure to mention). I had an entire folder full of records all the way back from elementary school, including medical information from the hospital and from every doctor I'd ever seen about either of my conditions. I know we sent them copies of a lot of that information and brought the originals with us to the hearing--yet they still said that they had no medical records and no evidence to look at.
Hearing about similar instances and the people who seem to slip by and get this when they could have done without it (especially knowing how easily someone who needs it can be denied) is really disconcerting.
It's difficult to take care of one's issues when the assistance needed is not there--and more so when it seems to be there for those who knowingly take advantage of it. It's not doing them any more favors than it is those it denies.

Originally Posted by Faulkner

O__O I LIVE IN NC!

Basically the only way to get help here is to maim yourself or figure out how to play the system.

It seems like a lot of people on mene are NC based...XD;; -- but that's a little irrelevant atm. (cometomythread)

But, yes. My boyfriend is telling me to talk to his mother about it--she actually works in the unemployment/disability offices, I think.
So, when I get a chance, I will get confirmation from her, but, from the NC site...It basically says, the only way you can get disability, is to be completely broken and unable to move/function, at all. >___<

I do agree with Glitter too. I get denied help (while I am still sortof physically able, my arthritis is slowly reaching an unbearable point), but other people who are perfectly capable of doing some things, get disability. :/

The system as a whole needs to be reworked, and make people who are responsible, act responsibly, and people who need the help, get the help.

That said, there also needs to be more jobs period...
Which goes back to the economy...Which goes back irresponsibly and greedy CEOs...who like to fuck over the working class...who like to not pay back their debts and rely soley on credit...so they can't pay back the companies...who have to layoff people, because no one is paying back their debt, because no one has jobs or the money and just...=__=
I think the bailouts was the stupidest thing ever. It didn't make the people who were responsible for this shit, deal with it. Instead it gave them millions of dollars in bonuses and they all called out, "LOL FUCK YOU AMERICA."

Originally Posted by monstahh`

It seems like a lot of people on mene are NC based...XD;; -- but that's a little irrelevant atm. (cometomythread)

But, yes. My boyfriend is telling me to talk to his mother about it--she actually works in the unemployment/disability offices, I think.
So, when I get a chance, I will get confirmation from her, but, from the NC site...It basically says, the only way you can get disability, is to be completely broken and unable to move/function, at all. >___<

I do agree with Glitter too. I get denied help (while I am still sortof physically able, my arthritis is slowly reaching an unbearable point), but other people who are perfectly capable of doing some things, get disability. :/

The system as a whole needs to be reworked, and make people who are responsible, act responsibly, and people who need the help, get the help.

That said, there also needs to be more jobs period...
Which goes back to the economy...Which goes back irresponsibly and greedy CEOs...who like to fuck over the working class...who like to not pay back their debts and rely soley on credit...so they can't pay back the companies...who have to layoff people, because no one is paying back their debt, because no one has jobs or the money and just...=__=
I think the bailouts was the stupidest thing ever. It didn't make the people who were responsible for this shit, deal with it. Instead it gave them millions of dollars in bonuses and they all called out, "LOL FUCK YOU AMERICA."

Not to mention most of those bailouts didn't help in the long run, most of the companies still went under for awhile. It was all money down the drain, I think a revision of the system is a good idea.

I hate to fall back on the "because we were raised that way" excuse, but the older I've become the more I've started to accept there are just pathetically moronic people out there who believe that anything they do is not their fault. Between eating disorders (because the media told me to be this way) and coddling your kids, I think that's where it starts.

I think there's a difference between honestly knowing that you're at fault and then lying, and then honestly believing that you're not at fault. There some muddled delusion in our society (Western/U.S. in particular) that not only allows us to use scapegoats, but can reward someone for doing so. You touch little kids? Oh well, it's not really your fault, something must have happened when you were a kid.

I grew up with a group of people who became drastically unique from one another. We all went to the same schools, and ate the same food, saw the same movies, went to the same events. But I think it really comes down to parenting; I was always taught to take responsibilities for my actions. To act only when you can accept the consequences, good or bad.

And I have friends--one in particular--who seems to believe that every problem that turns up isn't her fault. That everyone else makes life hard for her and she has done nothing wrong. I can only guess that it's because her parents taught her to be that way.

Anyway, to overly simplify it, our parents did it.
Which is ironic considering this is all about personal responsibility.

Originally Posted by the_paper_crane

I hate to fall back on the "because we were raised that way" excuse, but the older I've become the more I've started to accept there are just pathetically moronic people out there who believe that anything they do is not their fault. Between eating disorders (because the media told me to be this way) and coddling your kids, I think that's where it starts.

I think there's a difference between honestly knowing that you're at fault and then lying, and then honestly believing that you're not at fault. There some muddled delusion in our society (Western/U.S. in particular) that not only allows us to use scapegoats, but can reward someone for doing so. You touch little kids? Oh well, it's not really your fault, something must have happened when you were a kid.

I grew up with a group of people who became drastically unique from one another. We all went to the same schools, and ate the same food, saw the same movies, went to the same events. But I think it really comes down to parenting; I was always taught to take responsibilities for my actions. To act only when you can accept the consequences, good or bad.

And I have friends--one in particular--who seems to believe that every problem that turns up isn't her fault. That everyone else makes life hard for her and she has done nothing wrong. I can only guess that it's because her parents taught her to be that way.

Anyway, to overly simplify it, our parents did it.
Which is ironic considering this is all about personal responsibility.

I don't know. Just some things aren't the fault of the person. Like getting a job. When applying for one your at the mercy of the employer. All you can do is make yourself look good on paper and hope you get a call back. In 3 years I've gotten ONE callback which rejected me...
And the help around here is not much help at all. I would seriously consider disability but I know its pretty pointless. I don't have the same problems I did before so it wouldn't help me. I never knew some vocational thingy existed. I wonder if they have that for PA. I doubt past heart and growing problems count.... since they have been fixed. At least I'd make money if they place me in a job which could be faster than hoping and praying for another 3 years... :(

There are other things I know are my fault and I'm unsure how some of them came to be, but I do little to change them. I feel I need to protect myself from these things. Fear. So much of it exists inside of me. I don't want it to change but its ultimately my fault that it still exists. I don't change it because facing it is worse than it existing. Now... some fears I have faced because the consequences of them existing were far worse.... ie suicide.

Originally Posted by monstahh`

There are people though who get a job, keep it for as long as they can, and then quit and collect unemployment. I'm not saying it's a majority, but it happens. :/

Not sure if this is a state thing or not, but where I'm from you cannot collect unemployment if you quit. You must be laid off for something that is not disciplinary in nature (i.e. constantly late, being dangerous, violating other work rules).

So for my area, this is a non-issue. I think it makes sense this way; why reward someone who doesn't behave in a way they're supposed to?

So perhaps your state should instead adopt similar requirements?

Originally Posted by Keyori

Not sure if this is a state thing or not, but where I'm from you cannot collect unemployment if you quit. You must be laid off for something that is not disciplinary in nature (i.e. constantly late, being dangerous, violating other work rules).

So for my area, this is a non-issue. I think it makes sense this way; why reward someone who doesn't behave in a way they're supposed to?

So perhaps your state should instead adopt similar requirements?

In some states you can, but it's a little more difficult, but you still can. o 3o
You can also you know, just start being a bad employee until they fire you. ;C
Which serves the same purpose, basically.

I guess? It's more of an issue of people who are lazy and either quit, or make themselves get fired, to abuse the system period, because they are lazy and don't want a job.
People will find a way around the system.