I'm sure a lot of people will flame me, but this is only an opinion.

I really don't care for what Tim Burton's been doing... Edward Scissorhands was phenominal, Nightmare Before Christmas was no doubt a classic, Beetlegeuse is probably one of my favorite movies ever.

even the Corpse bride was decent even with a controversial ending

I enjoyed the Old Willy Wonka so much better with Gene.

Anyway, this is where I'll start.

Recently I have watched several different versions of Alice and Wonderland. I've read the original novel writen by Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, or Lewis Caroll, his writing name.

After the mid 1900's pre-post vietnam when drugs became a large influence on parts of society, "Alice's adventures in wonderland" became associated with drug use- thus inspired Jefferson Airplane to write the song White Rabbit.

I've never had any desire for drugs, alcohol or smoking, but this piece of Literature is pretty important to me because it shows how writing adapts to different cultures which shows progress in history. History fascinates me.

When I see Tim Burton attempting to make his characters look "Gothic" it sickens me. No doubt in my mind, Tim Burton and Disney have teamed up to make money off of you. It saddens me- They are appealing to popular culture. You've become popular culture. Hott Topic is making money off of you left and right. Claires is making money off of you left and right. Disney's always making money off of you.

Disney is the new walmart. Thank you for fueling this Tim Burton. Dressing your characters in dark clothing with crazy hair... that's an insult. It's like telling you what to think. This guy looks "creepy" you must think he's cool. basically saying, you think everything that looks like that is cool. That you'll take in anything that Tim Burton says is cool now.

Thankfully, somebody accomplished a true Artsy taste on Alice in Wonderland- A Czech writer by the name of Jan Svankmajer- I've only seen about half of this movie, but you can check out the first part here:
YouTube - Alice by Jan Svankmajer

Tim Burton wasn't like this before Willy Wonka. Beetlegeuse had Lydia, She had a stereotypical "Gothic" appearance with her tower hair like Robert Smith from the Cure, but her attitude was of a stereotypical "prep" (I use quotations because I don't believe in stereotypes)

I start to wonder why his crew went separate ways to make the movie Coraline. I think that, maybe that's why. Coraline is no doubt less popular, but the novel, writen by Niel Gaiman had some followers and some publicity from the band Rasputina who wrote a song about it. It still wouldn't sell like Alice.

I await the next Tim Burton film to see if I'm right on his intentions, the criteria will show through no doubt, but, either way, I'm sure people will still follow without second guessing. X_X

I doubt anyone else sees it from this point of view, but I like to question myself on everything, I like to look at every angle I can, and being a big fan of Burton in the past, it was hard to accept things are changing.

I see the point you are trying to make.
Most people see Burton films purely because it's has Burton's label or because Johnny Depp is in it.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions but I agree with you. His original works are wonderful, even his adaptions are great (i.e. Sweeney Todd and Big Fish), but when he remakes a movie, it feels like he's just trying to make money off of it. The sad part is that he will, millions, in fact.

I can see your point. Tim Burton is now one of the most influential people in the movie company. But, I disagree with the fact that he is trying to make the point that looking like that is cool. I think that that view, the one of more gothic inspired works and a darker view of things, is WHY he does movies the way he does. He looks at things more darkly and cynically. I like this because he provides a darker view to movies, not your average sunny, bright, cheerful with a part that you will make you cry but has a happy ending view. He is making money for what he does, but with you saying that is a bad thing is like saying it's a bad thing for a pop/well known singer makes money for their types of style of music. I doubt Burton is trying to make it look like that being goth or dressing darkly is cool. I think he is just showing his view of things/movies/books/general. Disney has always made money. Disney always will make money. That has nothing to do with the fact that they sell Tim Burton's works. Either way I very seriously doubt Tim Burton is telling society what is cool. I doubt that people who dress 'gothic' do it because of his movies or style. To me, now this is MY personal opinion, you are saying that it is wrong that Tim Burton produces/directs movies from his view of things. That's him showing his view and expressing himself. How is that wrong? When did that become a crime?

I guess It's really not so much my rant about Tim Burton even though I really don't like his remakes of other movies- I think I have more of a problem with society for eating into this so much. After all, I don't know the man's intentions. I love his original works, but it really apears to me as though he's trying to appeal to our generation- it doesn't look like he's staying true to his own character from his original works like Beetlejeuse, TNMBC, Corpse Bride and Edward Scissorhands.

I just don't get the same feeling from his new work, it seems very lifeless, cold and uninspired- and this is coming from the thoughts of a girl who has taken a dead possum, skinned it's flesh and called it her son and sees nothing wrong with it. I'm one for what most people would consider "morbid" things, what Burton does doesn't really seem dark or morbid to me. Just seems like he's trying to hard to be something he isn't now.

Burton could easily take anything and make it his own, but I don't feel he really did that great of a job with his new work. =/

I actually liked Alice in wonderland. (the new one) I thought that it kind of showed how, thirteen years later, things in wonderland had just gotten worse... Making it darker was just another way of showing that.

There is an issue with your point, the reason for Alice's Adventures in Wonderland was to protest royalty. It was disguised as a child's book to get his point across. You complain about drug use... that's what they did then. It's completely natural to the time period that the book was written in. The bottle holds a drug that can make you feel high or low. It's also set in 1865, the world of mind is starting to be chipped away and people are seeing this dark psychotic world.

yes, you're correct, there is simply because I cut out alot of important information because I didn't want to confuse to many people because the majority of people that oppose what I say don't have the attention spans, research or brain compacity to take in information :|

You're the first to prove me wrong, so I suppose I should probably add those parts in but there really isn't enough feedback for it to be necessary it seems =/

Tim Burton got really fucking lucky, he tapped into a counter-culture with his dark image and his pairing with Johnny Depp (who can't act his way out of a bag, seriously, he plays one role really well and nothing else.) the wonder boy. He established an image for himself that was so genius so that no matter what he did, the counter-culture fags would eat it with a fork. Except now counter culture is pop culture so that's why it seems so generic.

But drugs are a part of Alice in Wonderland. It's not like 'omfgdrugs lets go down the rabbit hole lololol", I moreso read it as changing your perspective is a good thing, finding fluitidy in life is important and it's how you maintain your wonder as an adult without being a child molestor or w/e. Besides, the whole book is socialist like woah.

@Runes
Drugs were not cool back then. -___- The Victorian area was what the dark psychotic world. Seriously, wiki the Victorian era, it was terrible and stiffling and everything was controled by the chruch and everyone was coming out of romanticism so everyone was sad all the time and could do nothing about it. Drug use by the aristocrats is just part of history, rich people can afford rich drugs will get high, while middle class people don't. That's why drugs are important, it was just one more thing from the aritocracy that Dodgeson argues should be for everyone. And it is a children's book. The book was written for children, so they could escape to a world made of nonscence as opposed to their didactic crap lives reading the bible or puritan crap floatin about. Children's books didn't exist at this point, it was a new area. Authors didn't even think of simplifying these books so completley, they probably wouldn't have gotten published anyways.

I have not seen all the movies he has done. I do not really care for the creepy, Gothic look.. Most of the time.. I thought he did good with the earlier movies you listed. However I do not like the skeleton and morbid way he likes to show things, most of the time.. I think he was a great actor, I loved him in "clue"

Moving on as for Alice in wonderland.. That is a good story -minus the drugs- I thought it was creative and unique.. And what he is doing now, is not supposed to replace the movie you linked. But to be a sequel to it.. It is subpossed to follow the series of books about Alice in wonderland.. I do not know how true that is, I have not read the books..

But I have to agree I do not like how "goth, dark, evil" is in. No matter how much I do enjoy some vampire stories.. I think it is not just what people ware but a overall attitude change going on. Where bad is good and good is now bad.. I do not like that at all.. I am not saying Tim Burton is a cause but he has helped influence it..

I like hot topic for the old movie stuff they do, but I don't by int the "goth" nor will I ever.. completely.. I will admit I have a collar and some net gloves / stoking. But that is just for role play, rarely... I am worried about the teens now days..

Originally Posted by Tilly

Tim Burton got really fucking lucky, he tapped into a counter-culture with his dark image and his pairing with Johnny Depp (who can't act his way out of a bag, seriously, he plays one role really well and nothing else.) the wonder boy. He established an image for himself that was so genius so that no matter what he did, the counter-culture fags would eat it with a fork. Except now counter culture is pop culture so that's why it seems so generic.

But drugs are a part of Alice in Wonderland. It's not like 'omfgdrugs lets go down the rabbit hole lololol", I moreso read it as changing your perspective is a good thing, finding fluitidy in life is important and it's how you maintain your wonder as an adult without being a child molestor or w/e. Besides, the whole book is socialist like woah.

@Runes
Drugs were not cool back then. -___- The Victorian area was what the dark psychotic world. Seriously, wiki the Victorian era, it was terrible and stiffling and everything was controled by the chruch and everyone was coming out of romanticism so everyone was sad all the time and could do nothing about it. Drug use by the aristocrats is just part of history, rich people can afford rich drugs will get high, while middle class people don't. That's why drugs are important, it was just one more thing from the aritocracy that Dodgeson argues should be for everyone. And it is a children's book. The book was written for children, so they could escape to a world made of nonscence as opposed to their didactic crap lives reading the bible or puritan crap floatin about. Children's books didn't exist at this point, it was a new area. Authors didn't even think of simplifying these books so completley, they probably wouldn't have gotten published anyways.

Yeah thats why I posted the link to Jan S.'s work, hes a Czech writer but he used like genuine victorian era objects in his film, the era was very bleak no doubt

I respect your opinion, but I like what Tim Burton does (except for remaking Willy Wonka, I miss the old Oompa Loompa song). He made my 2nd favorite movie, which is Coraline. I like his dark ideas. :yes:

Originally Posted by Canielele

I respect your opinion, but I like what Tim Burton does (except for remaking Willy Wonka, I miss the old Oompa Loompa song). He made my 2nd favorite movie, which is Coraline. I like his dark ideas. :yes:

Coraline isn't Tim Burton- it's his animation crew, they wen't off on their own and Tim Burton publicly refused to work with them on it

Originally Posted by MissxMarionette

Coraline isn't Tim Burton- it's his animation crew, they wen't off on their own and Tim Burton publicly refused to work with them on it

Oh...really... I didn't know that. Well, thanks anyway. But it still is a good movie. C:

Love pre-year 2000 Burton. Hate post-2000 Burton. Edward Scissorhands and Nightmare Before Christmas are two of my all-time favorite films. I grew up with them. I grew up with Sleepy Hollow as well, which I think is certainly one of his very last truly creative and interesting films.

*Walks in, sits down, and claps*

Thank you. You've just managed to clearly say what I've been saying since I was twelve.

Nice to know that I'm not alone.

I'm hoping this wasn't posted because I'm a huge Tim and Johnny fan girl xD
LMAO. Everyone has their opinions. (:

Originally Posted by Alixness

I'm hoping this wasn't posted because I'm a huge Tim and Johnny fan girl xD
LMAO. Everyone has their opinions. (:

sorry hun, posted this a few days before you joined and that's why I felt so bad when you asked for my feedback on your story >< lol I was like :O bad timing XD

Originally Posted by MissxMarionette

sorry hun, posted this a few days before you joined and that's why I felt so bad when you asked for my feedback on your story >< lol I was like :O bad timing XD

Lol. Awh, no harm done (: I wasn't offended in the least ^_^ Like I said, everyone has their own opinions.

Not a huge fan of nightmare before christmas...but Alice and wonderland was very nicely done. And I absolutely love Legend of Sleepy Hallow

The only beef I have with Burton is that most of the movies he directs/produces are all remakes. There's no original story anymore. I wish he'd go back to writing his own stories or backing up other 'under the radar' stories with his unique vision; instead of playing it safe with a remake that everyone is sure to love.

That aside, I'm more upset with the majority of the fanbase.
He didn't just work on TNBC and Edward Scissorhands, contrary to popular belief. What about Mars Attacks!, Ed Wood, Big Fish, or his own projects: Vincent and Frankenweenie? You can't walk around claiming you're a fan of someone if you don't even attempt to learn more about them and their works. That's always been a pet peeve of mine.

Hey. Hey. Guess who's directing The Addams Family in 3D? P:

Yep.