I am QUITE pleased at how many responses I got to my last question. I have another one today to boggle your Mene minds.

I have always been a lover of learning and have always enjoyed school. Before my life became complicated, I had wanted to continue to college right after high school and stay in school for as long as possible. Of course, things never turn out as you would think and I've ended up taking a gap year. Though I have found out that there is plenty of learning to do outside of the classroom as well as inside.

Academics have been taught differently throughout time and the world itself. Here in America, it is required that a child be taught grades 1-12 and they would be better off if they went onto college as well. In other countries, though, it is not necessarily required that you go past middle school or even grade school. In some, learning the family trade is more profitable than getting a college degree education.

My question to you: How much education does a child need in an academic setting?

I think a better question is how much education students need outside of an academic setting. Many school programs (especially in college) require internships or co-ops to graduate, but I think some sort of outside learning experience is more than valuable to students, especially outside of high school.

You don't have to attend school your senior year. At least, in Texas you can drop out at 17.

I think in an academic setting, probably as much as the child is able to learn, especially in dealing with things that might come harder for them outside of said place. I might want to be a mathematicion, but I'm not going to learn much outside of school unless I myself apply myself.

OUTSIDE of said academic setting the child should most probably learn the ways of the world around them. How to act socially, what can you do and not do, things you can't learn in schools. There is plenty you can learn outside of a classroom, a significant amount. .That doesn't mean we should exclude our schooling system, even if I don't agree with it fully

I know that in order to graduate to become a doctor you have to take a class that required you to know how to tell the family of the patient that something terrible has occurred. You can get an A in this class, but you'll never really know the feeling or being able to experience it fully until you are actually doing it.

Originally Posted by Keyori

I think a better question is how much education students need outside of an academic setting. Many school programs (especially in college) require internships or co-ops to graduate, but I think some sort of outside learning experience is more than valuable to students, especially outside of high school.

I full heartedly agree with you. Though it can also go overboard. There were several students at my school who were taking honors classes AND had extracurricular activities after school almost every single day. It seemed they hardly had any time for themselves or their families.

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Originally Posted by calebsaur

You don't have to attend school your senior year. At least, in Texas you can drop out at 17.

True. Dropping out is an option. But don't most work places- even fast food ones- require a high school degree now-a-days?

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Originally Posted by SaetonChapelle

I think in an academic setting, probably as much as the child is able to learn, especially in dealing with things that might come harder for them outside of said place. I might want to be a mathematicion, but I'm not going to learn much outside of school unless I myself apply myself.

OUTSIDE of said academic setting the child should most probably learn the ways of the world around them. How to act socially, what can you do and not do, things you can't learn in schools. There is plenty you can learn outside of a classroom, a significant amount. .That doesn't mean we should exclude our schooling system, even if I don't agree with it fully

I know that in order to graduate to become a doctor you have to take a class that required you to know how to tell the family of the patient that something terrible has occurred. You can get an A in this class, but you'll never really know the feeling or being able to experience it fully until you are actually doing it.

I like your response. Indeed, some things you can't learn exclusively from a text book.

Yes, I've seen a lot of overachievers in school. Really, from what I've heard from recruiters and employers, is that if you do extracurriculars, it doesn't matter if your GPA isn't stellar. Usually if you keep over a 3.0 GPA, and you can justify not having a 4.0 with the extra things you do, the GPA is overlooked. Some people will even go so far as to say they'd rather have someone with a lower GPA and outside experience than a 4.0 student who did nothing outside of school.

I wouldn't push anyone to get a 4.0 AND do an outside experience. Sure, in high school, you might be able to pull it off, since some curriculums aren't very challenging to some students (I know mine wasn't), but in college, it really isn't a requirement for getting a career you like. Personally, I haven't been able to justify aiming for something higher than a 3.5 (or even a 3.25, which is where my scholarship cutoffs were), because I got so much more out of being involved with all the student groups I was a part of and working one or two part-time jobs while I was in school.

Originally Posted by Keyori

Yes, I've seen a lot of overachievers in school. Really, from what I've heard from recruiters and employers, is that if you do extracurriculars, it doesn't matter if your GPA isn't stellar. Usually if you keep over a 3.0 GPA, and you can justify not having a 4.0 with the extra things you do, the GPA is overlooked. Some people will even go so far as to say they'd rather have someone with a lower GPA and outside experience than a 4.0 student who did nothing outside of school.

I wouldn't push anyone to get a 4.0 AND do an outside experience. Sure, in high school, you might be able to pull it off, since some curriculums aren't very challenging to some students (I know mine wasn't), but in college, it really isn't a requirement for getting a career you like. Personally, I haven't been able to justify aiming for something higher than a 3.5 (or even a 3.25, which is where my scholarship cutoffs were), because I got so much more out of being involved with all the student groups I was a part of and working one or two part-time jobs while I was in school.

I was never told it was important to be in extracurricular activities by my parents, so I never bothered to get involved. I immursed myself in my classes; though I was a part of Girl Scouts during high school and part of middle school. I now see the importance of having outside involvement. When I'm in college, I'm definately having a part time job and at least ONE extracurricular activity. With how things are going on here, probably the debate team. I love research so much, and I can argue my point if I can have time to get facts to back it up.

Debate and Toastmasters are great groups to be a part of and easily translate into translatable work skills; namely, good oral communication skills.

I also didn't do much during high school, but I really got involved in college and I learned so much about how to effectively deal with people and I learned a lot about my own personality, not to mention all the leadership training and workshops I've been to. Being an organization officer is a great thing to do, even if you only do it once and find out it's not for you. You'll still get something to take away.

I think the attitude in high school is that you didn't get to pick the school or you don't want to be there, so you don't get as engaged as you can and you don't get all the experience you can while you're there. Students will just take the back seat and get through it with as little effort as they can because they see it as another obstacle between them and independence.

Originally Posted by Keyori

Debate and Toastmasters are great groups to be a part of and easily translate into translatable work skills; namely, good oral communication skills.

I also didn't do much during high school, but I really got involved in college and I learned so much about how to effectively deal with people and I learned a lot about my own personality, not to mention all the leadership training and workshops I've been to. Being an organization officer is a great thing to do, even if you only do it once and find out it's not for you. You'll still get something to take away.

I think the attitude in high school is that you didn't get to pick the school or you don't want to be there, so you don't get as engaged as you can and you don't get all the experience you can while you're there. Students will just take the back seat and get through it with as little effort as they can because they see it as another obstacle between them and independence.

I know; there were so many kids in my classes that acted like the teachers were obligated to pass them. And that they didn't have to do anything at all. It was sickening. What is toastmasters??? Sounds like a culinary group.

Lol, no, toastmasters is a debate/public speaking group.

Originally Posted by Keyori

Lol, no, toastmasters is a debate/public speaking group.

Okay; funny name for a debate group. Is there a private joke behind that?

I don't think so o3o

I think the important thing to focus on is not how much education a child needs but the quality of that education. We send kids on to college knowing how to write an essay on how such and such piece of literature makes them feel, but they are unable to write said essay using basic English grammar. History is another fine example of a subject that doesn't really teach much of anything anymore. It doesn't matter how many years a child is in school if what they are "learning" doesn't have some sort of real world application!

AmyHeartXVIII commented that kids in her classes feel as though they should be passed automatically in a course. This stems from parents and what I like to call "special snowflake syndrome". Children these days aren't allowed to make mistakes, or criticized, or even questioned in their thoughts or actions. They expect the world to revolve around them and when placed in an academic setting they expect this "get everything without working for it" behavior to extend to the classroom.

My opinion is twofold. First off, parents need to get over "omg my kid is sooo super special" and let their kids make mistakes, get problems wrong, hell fail a test or two! Once kids understand they actually have to WORK to do well in school that will help things immensely. In the same vein, teachers need to stop pandering to their student's parents and held the student responsible for the amount of effort they put into a class. Secondly, we need to go back to teaching fundamentals in elementary school. Teach kids math, English grammar and spelling, reading, and the sciences. No more trying to trick kids with "learning games" no more neglecting subjects because "they'll be too hard for the students" enough!

/rant (sorry I'm a substitute teacher and education is becoming a very big deal for me, it's so frustrating to teach 2nd grade and have kids unable to add or subtract)

II also believe there is a huge different between high school mentality and college level. In high school you don't care. You want it to be done with. You're not 21 yet, you're barely 18. You can never see you're friends, you begin work, and you just want the essence of freedom. You're more than happy not to get an educaiton and work in your dads garage, and still assume you can make the cut to survive. You're not paying bills, not supporting anything, and the biggest thing on your mind is usually "at 2:30 I'm outta here!"

In college you have a goal, you have a desire and a reason, at least most, to be there. You chose it, and you want it. You are willing to do pretty much whatever it takes to graduate. That's usually your money, your time, and your effort. You're more willing to learn things, and absorb things a little easier.

I felt high school was pretty wasted. I learned very little, and engaged in very little. I felt my teachers were ignorant, and I was being taught things that were useless, which I was. However in college I am having a much easier time, and don't feel as if my life is wasting away AS much. Only my hard earned money. :3

Originally Posted by Bippy

I think the important thing to focus on is not how much education a child needs but the quality of that education. We send kids on to college knowing how to write an essay on how such and such piece of literature makes them feel, but they are unable to write said essay using basic English grammar. History is another fine example of a subject that doesn't really teach much of anything anymore. It doesn't matter how many years a child is in school if what they are "learning" doesn't have some sort of real world application!

AmyHeartXVIII commented that kids in her classes feel as though they should be passed automatically in a course. This stems from parents and what I like to call "special snowflake syndrome". Children these days aren't allowed to make mistakes, or criticized, or even questioned in their thoughts or actions. They expect the world to revolve around them and when placed in an academic setting they expect this "get everything without working for it" behavior to extend to the classroom.

My opinion is twofold. First off, parents need to get over "omg my kid is sooo super special" and let their kids make mistakes, get problems wrong, hell fail a test or two! Once kids understand they actually have to WORK to do well in school that will help things immensely. In the same vein, teachers need to stop pandering to their student's parents and held the student responsible for the amount of effort they put into a class. Secondly, we need to go back to teaching fundamentals in elementary school. Teach kids math, English grammar and spelling, reading, and the sciences. No more trying to trick kids with "learning games" no more neglecting subjects because "they'll be too hard for the students" enough!

/rant (sorry I'm a substitute teacher and education is becoming a very big deal for me, it's so frustrating to teach 2nd grade and have kids unable to add or subtract)

Your rant was perfect. Thanks for your contribution to this thread. ^_^

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Originally Posted by SaetonChapelle

II also believe there is a huge different between high school mentality and college level. In high school you don't care. You want it to be done with. You're not 21 yet, you're barely 18. You can never see you're friends, you begin work, and you just want the essence of freedom. You're more than happy not to get an educaiton and work in your dads garage, and still assume you can make the cut to survive. You're not paying bills, not supporting anything, and the biggest thing on your mind is usually "at 2:30 I'm outta here!"

In college you have a goal, you have a desire and a reason, at least most, to be there. You chose it, and you want it. You are willing to do pretty much whatever it takes to graduate. That's usually your money, your time, and your effort. You're more willing to learn things, and absorb things a little easier.

I felt high school was pretty wasted. I learned very little, and engaged in very little. I felt my teachers were ignorant, and I was being taught things that were useless, which I was. However in college I am having a much easier time, and don't feel as if my life is wasting away AS much. Only my hard earned money. :3

College certainly IS a different animal. And there's not much we can do to make high school more similar to it, unfortunately. Darn the public school system.