No, but have you?
Because if you have, then you should know how to provide scientific sources, and that 1000 people being polled by a fashion magazine, is not a scientific study, and does not present fact. :heart:

Which is entirely the point I'm trying to make.
You are acting like one study, on a very very small scale, is the ultimate in fact.
If you want to persuade me, provide better "facts."

Sarofset, sorry, but you're still not giving any real evidence for your case. I agree with monstahh on this one; a 1000 people polled by a fashion magazine is not evidence for your case. If you feel so strongly about this (which I don't understand, but that's neither here nor there), and demand evidence from other people, you have to be ready to give some yourself, and not just sweeping generalizations.

I can't help but feel this topic has gotten completely out of hand..

Originally Posted by ljosberinn

Sarofset, sorry, but you're still not giving any real evidence for your case. I agree with monstahh on this one; a 1000 people polled by a fashion magazine is not evidence for your case. If you feel so strongly about this (which I don't understand, but that's neither here nor there), and demand evidence from other people, you have to be ready to give some yourself, and not just sweeping generalizations.

I can't help but feel this topic has gotten completely out of hand..

Agreed. I also agree with Facade:

Originally Posted by Facade

I think you need a tad more of a perspective on what you're saying than just, say, purveying the streets by your house and chalking it up to, "Yeah, nope. Women aren't wearing as much makeup as they used to."

Sarofset: My original post, if you'd care to read back, gave reasons for my statement. However, if hard, cold, scientific evidence is quite so important to you, enough to derail your own thread, I shall attempt to provide.


This is the first useful article I came across when researching the demographics of makeup-wearing in the Western world. It is, as you can see, over ten years old. I shall, however, snip out what is possibly the most important part:

Originally Posted by Article on Makeup Demographics in the USA

In 1996, 88 percent of women aged 18 and older said they used makeup of some kind in the past six months, compared with 92 percent 10 years earlier, according to Mediamark Research of New York City.

(...)

women aged 18 to 24 (...) are a prized market for cosmetics makers because they are the most likely of all US. women to wear makeup, at 91 percent in 1996.

The article indicates a decline in the use of makeup (4% among 18-24 y/o women), but the figures are still staggering, eh?

My search next turned up a much more recent article, from 2007. It mainly concerns French attitudes to makeup compared to American. However, there are some useful figures which the person who was kind enough to link to the article summarised:

Originally Posted by A Summary of the New York Times

The number of women that wear makeup greatly depends on their culture, religious beliefs, and the part of the world that they live in. Sixty-four percent of American women wear foundation of some sort, 81 percent wear lipstick and 59 percent wear blush. This means roughly 68 percent of women in America wear a full face of makeup.

There you go. Evidence for you that the astoundingly vast majority of women, in the US at least, regularly wear makeup. The unemboldened figures are taken directly from the article, whilst the final is an averaged-out figure.

Okay, and since makeup doesn't determine gender none of this has any meaning anyway.

How many guys would wear some kind of makeup if it were not seen as a girl thing?

Originally Posted by sarofset

Okay, and since makeup doesn't determine gender none of this has any meaning anyway.

How many guys would wear some kind of makeup if it were not seen as a girl thing?

I question the relevance of your question. I thought this thread was discussing the impact of genetics on gender identity? Or did I just mis-read something somewhere along the line?

It was, and then people started making arguments about other things which have no relevance whatsoever.

This thread is closed. no more posts please.

Lots of boys wear makeup, and most girls actually don't anymore. Has it come down to who wears a dress? If so, then the water becomes even murkier since most women and girls no longer do that except on special occasions.

Is from your first post, you are the one who brought up which gender wears makeup more, and made large sweeping inaccurate statements.

Which I disagree with.
You then proceeded to demand evidence from other people, and then provided a shoddy source when evidence was demanded of you.
Just because something is posted on the internet, does not mean it's a good source, and does not automatically make your argument valid.

The fact of the matter is, you don't know what you're talking about, and yet you're accusing others that they don't either, but you can't even provide half-decent evidence to back up your claims.

:roll:

Edit: :lol: Oh well if this thread is closed now, just disregard this post.

I think gender is determined by 1 part parents, 1 part aggression, 1 part, intelligence&maturity and 2 parts peer group.

Parents, because if you've got a dad telling you that "only puffs ware make-up" or a mum telling you "when you get older you'll probably marry a nice man in a big pretty wedding dress" from a very young age, that's going to stick with you.
Aggression, because a more aggressive person is more likely to take part in "boy" activities like sports, and passive people would probably rather spend their time doing things that are deemed "girly" like gardening.
Intelligence & Maturity, because obviously, if you are smart enough and mature enough to think for yourself then you would be able to see that what people want you to be isn't exactly what you should be.

And last, Peer Group because It ultimately comes down to the people you spend your time with.
If you like things that your sex isn't "supposed" to like, you go and hang out with the other sex. but, then, the people of your own sex might say things, and then you either continue the way you are and be shunned, or you give in and act the way "you are supposed to" unless you have a group of people of the sam sex who enjoy the same things you do, then you can be "weirdos" together.

I was explaining this very thing to someone I know the other day (a F to M, like it matters...) he couldn't understand why I was wanting to get hormone therapy since to him I'm very much what he met me as. But the only thing he could think of as a protest to me setting out on this path was "you wear skirts!"

I was like, "your point being?"

I mean, I grew up around hippies. I've known tons of men who wore skirts, had long hair, wore makeup, jewelry...but still identified as men. I also hung out with punks, and so I know plenty of girls who wear short or even no hair, who cuss, fight, work on cars... all the gender stereotypes are outdated and make no sense. Who cares who wears what or identifies as what? Sure don't -LIE- to potential partners--- you need to get the issue out there very early on if you're going to be dating someone and might surprise them if you take off your clothes and arent' what they expect-- but other than the occasional disappointment stemming from unsympathetic friends or lovers, what's the big?

----------

Originally Posted by SuperSimoholic

... or a mum telling you "when you get older you'll probably marry a nice man in a big pretty wedding dress" .

I know what you actually met, but because your sentence structure was a bit off, I had to mention that I would LOVE to marry a man in a big pretty wedding dress. That's the guy for me!:angel: