...you tune into the news to find out you were wrong.


Case in point:
There was an attempted rape on a biking trail (it goes through the city and along the coast, as well as through a series of woods) today. The woman was biking when a man jumped out and knocked her off the bike and tried to rape her. She got away, but the man is still on the loose.

Then the news says:
"She was biking on the trail at 3am when..."
And then it fucking hit me, why would you be biking on a trail at that hour? The trail is renowned for being unsafe even during the day at certain parts. So she's not only biking at an ungodly hour, but in the rain, in the dark, and alone.

I'm not happy that some creeper is out trying to rape girls just trying to get their fitness on, but I'm pissed that she would be so dumb.


Has anything like this happened where you live?
Have any 'drunk girl' friends who put themselves in danger all the time?

For all you 'wah wah wah u just think she shuld have been raped' morons:
No, I don't think rape is justified by any means.
Yes, she's an idiot.
No, I don't condone rape or sexual assault.
Obviously I don't condone sexual assault.
The thread leans more towards avoidable situations that people walk into.

Sometimes I think some people are just asking for something bad to happen to them. I hope they catch that creep, but that girl needs to take more safety precautions. I think its just that people don't think that something like that is going to happen to them. (Edit//I probably should have phrased this one better, but I was raised to be super paranoid about these kinds of things and not put myself in those kinds of situations. If your not in the situation to begin with, your chances of somebody hurting you are greatly diminished.)
Fortunately I haven't known anybody who puts themselves in those kinds of situations. I had a friend who liked to intermix with people she shouldn't have and do things she shouldn't have, but she was smart about it too.

I could understand a little danger just to put some excitement into your self-proclaimed miserable life.
But my God! That was just reckless!

i am NEVER for the whole "she was asking for it" argument, but if these monsters have to exist and we're aware of them, it does seem silly to me not to take precautions.

there are a few girls in my circle of friends who constantly get drunk at rowdy parties to the point of not remembering anything which really scares me.
i think the most important thing in terms of safe drinking is to know your limits & not push them. D;

Yeah, some people just seem to lack common sense. Personally, I'm one of those people who would like to believe that everyone in the world is a good person, and no one would ever want to harm me, but I know that it isn't true. My parents raised me to be super paranoid and take precautions and never walk in the dark alone and stuff because they're worried about something like that happening to me. I agree that she probably wasn't asking for it, and definitely didn't deserve it, but some people do need to learn to be cautious.

Excuse me -- but blaming the victim is pretty close-minded -- there have been children raped and murdered in their own homes with mom and dad sleeping in the next room.

There have been people abducted in front of witnesses in broad daylight in front of their homes in good neighborhoods.

There have been murders in houses that have state of the art security.

Why aren't you asking the real questions?

1. The woman wasn't doing any harm to anyone -- she was just biking. Why did the man roam around? To hurt someone else. Why aren't you getting on him? Or do you actually condone what he is doing?

2. A lot of people have to be out at 3 AM -- they have jobs, their dysfunctional parents kick them out of the house, they don't have a place to go to -- so who is looking after their interests from the same creeps who attack people who go about their lives -- you should be able to go out in the streets wearing nothing but a smile -- it does not give anyone to touch a hair on your head. So what is so dysfunctional in this society where when something bad happens to someone, the first thing people do is get on the person who didn't have sick intentions?

3. As taxpayers, we have to part with our hard-earned money to pay for police and security -- we have governments that boast that they have satellites that can read license plates from outer space -- why are they not using it to keep the people who fund these toys safer? Why don't we have police patrolling places so that things like that don't happen. Honestly, would you rather have trustworthy people out at 3 AM or the ones who will slit your throat in a heartbeat?

So don't be so righteous and judgmental -- one day it will be you who is going to be shamed when someone does something against your will.

It is a real shame that people are regressing because deep down, they think if they condemn a victim, that's going to protect them from the same thing happening to them. Guess again, sweeties...

We all make mistakes -- that doesn't mean we deserve to have our lives ruined while we make a misstep.

Alexandra, I don't think it was ANYONE'S intention not to condemn the man. But a little common sense could have gone very far here. You're always so very contrary, and it really irritates me because you spring to play devil's advocate no matter what the subject is.

No one's going to say that the rapist was not a terrible, terrible man. And no one's going to say that it wasn't a terrible thing that she got jumped, or that it wouldn't have been a tragedy if she'd been raped. No one.

But would you want your daughter out at that hour, in an area known not to be safe, in the dark? Even IF she works all day, even IF it's the only time she had to bike, why that trail? Why not somewhere well-lit, like a neighborhood? I wouldn't want any friend or family of mine out with such odds.

So don't be so righteous and judgmental -- one day it will be you who is going to be shamed when someone does something against your will.

This is the worst of it, I think, knowing that you were once a teacher. Shame on you, wishing that on any person.

Originally Posted by Beliar

I hope they catch that creep, but that girl needs to take more safety precautions. I think its just that people don't think that something like that is going to happen to them. (Edit//I probably should have phrased this one better, but I was raised to be super paranoid about these kinds of things and not put myself in those kinds of situations. If your not in the situation to begin with, your chances of somebody hurting you are greatly diminished.)

This is how I feel. The man needs to be caught. It IS a problem. But it saddens me that any woman would put herself in a situation that was obviously dangerous in the first place. Someone needs to talk about safety with her.

It more so pisses me off that some douche is allowed to roam the trails attacking people than anything. I do agree that it's not the best of situation to put yourself in but what the heck is a creeper doing wondering the woods at 3am unless he stalked her or something or he's looking for a victim? Even then no one deserves to be attacked. This is why I carry a weapon and know how to use it. I work weird hours and sometimes the only times I can be out and walk/run/bike is at night or early morning. Also, if it is hot in that area, it's not very practical to be biking in the heat.

If the area is dangerous then there should be measures to protect people that use that area or it should be closed during hours where crimes are more likely to happen/at night. Not saying that closing the area would keep people out because people are going to disobey the "closed" signs (heck, I do it myself sometimes) but it would detour some people from using the trails. Instead of saying "She was asking for it" the real issue is why isn't something being done about predators in the area?

About the drinking thing...people that are that irresponsible should not be drinking.

Common sense is overrated.

Common sense isnt that common these days.

As for me, Ive had friends who would dress...provocatively...and wonder WHY they are getting stared at, and lewd comments thrown their way. I tried explaining it to them, but they just turnedd it around in their minds to me saying something else, which had NOTHING to deal with the situation at hand. Usually, if Ive tried to explain it a few times, I stay away from them, and the roaming fingers/hands of people(and this was in high school too) scare them. Since I was usually with a few of them when they were getting those comments, people didnt have roaming fingers/hands. But without me around, well, they had to slap a few guys across the face(I was watching from across the cafeteria). Some of them stopped dressing that way, and were dressing modestly afterwards. But that didnt stop me from going out of my way to stay away from them.

And as for the pathway you were talking about, Ive had a similar thing(just with two guys wanting my wallet). I had my phone in my hand already, because its a shady area to begin with, and I made it look like I was getting a phonecall. Alot of people get scared when they think you can get help easily when you're alone. It helped that the guys only had their fists, I had my pocket knife(still in my pocket, and its a 2.5" blade) and my knife kit(with many many sharp and blunt implements for a kitchen) with me. So as heavy as the kit is...it could deal some MAJOR damage. So what Im saying, people just need to think smart, and know how to spot when something is wrong. But that being said, it falls under common sense, which is becoming rarer and rarer.

Draciolus: Ever hear of "Slut walk"? XD Sorry but that story reminded me of that kind of thing.

Another thing that made me kind of laugh at how stupid people are, was tonight at work, I was working the carving station for some kids 21st birthday. Now, dont get me wrong, Im happy they picked our restaurant, Im happy that we brought in all the extra money. But to be honest, the legal drinking age here is 18, make that one a big extravagent thing, not the 21st. Go somewhere that the drinking age IS 21 for that one. But even so, spending at LEAST $3000 for about 300 h'Or Dourves, the entire lounge booked for the night, and a carving station with one Rib-Eye(that cost $15/person). To me, that is BEYOND stupid. Think of all the things you could do with that money. Not to mention I overheard(from one of the girls speech near the end) the kid got a Corvette(brand new) for his 16th birthday. Like COME ON! People like that piss me off. The rest of the world works their asses off, tons of them going hungy/cold/etc, while you're giving your kid that expensive of a car? Rich people piss me off. >.>

And on a side note: Keeping the carving station open, when nobody had been there for about an hour or so, thats something else thats dumb. At least I got to enjoy the scenery of the hot hostess being bored...just like me. xD

I would never blame the victim for the actual getting attacked part, because I've been the victim and I know what it's like.

However in this day and age going anywhere secluded at three in the morning is really like walking into traffic isn't it? You know it's dangerous, and stupid. They pretty much pound it into your head from kindergarten on.

The police need to catch this creep and make an example of him.

People shouldn't be anywhere secluded at that kind of hour. That's where sickoes hang out, and they show up at late hours.

I personally agree with you.

I am going nowhere at 3 in the morning.......unless someone in the family had a heart attack/stroke/etc. Then I might get out and go to the hospital.

That lady needs some common sense. 3 am? Dangerous time. And the hour of the spirits and the like if you believe in that. Dark wooded area? Dangerous place. Known incidents of not being safe before? Where did her common sense go?

Am I the only one that would be freaking out in that situation MINUS the rapist?

Now, I'm not saying that should've happened, but come on. Use some common sense. It's like going to your friend's house when you know someone who lives with him/her is a drug dealer in crack. Something bad is eventually going to go down over there, statistically. Don't go there.

Though it would be nice to be able to bike at 3am and for it to be safe, but until the world is perfect, I'm not going biking in this wooded area trail thing alone at any time.

So, just because she was out biking late on a trail, she might have been asking for it?
Do you cook with a gas stove? That could end in a burned house. Are you asking for it?
I handle paper all day at work. I could get paper cuts. Am I asking for it?
I drink casually, with people I know at local taverns. But I could still get harassed by unknown strangers. Am I asking for it?

No, no, no, and no.

It shouldn't matter the circumstance. It shouldn't have happened, period. That trail, whether it be 3pm or 3am, should be safe from people like that man. Maybe there WERE no other trails she could have taken. Doesn't it really matter? No, it doesn't. That's like saying "well, she was drunk when she was raped. Should have known better. Oh well." That man was taking advantage of the situation, and it shouldn't have happened. The woman was not dumb. The man was. Assign the blame correctly.

No one said she was asking for it. They said she was stupid.

Why would someone willingly be up at that hour, biking on a trail that, by all other means, isn't considered safe even during the day? I don't even feel safe going out at 11 at night to go to the trash can that's four feet from my front porch, let alone going biking on a trail at 3 am.

That's just stupid in any way. I mean, I'm sorry it happened to her but that was, seriously, not the best move to do.

Originally Posted by alexandrakitty

Excuse me -- but blaming the victim is pretty close-minded -- there have been children raped and murdered in their own homes with mom and dad sleeping in the next room.

There have been people abducted in front of witnesses in broad daylight in front of their homes in good neighborhoods.

There have been murders in houses that have state of the art security.

Why aren't you asking the real questions?

1. The woman wasn't doing any harm to anyone -- she was just biking. Why did the man roam around? To hurt someone else. Why aren't you getting on him? Or do you actually condone what he is doing?

2. A lot of people have to be out at 3 AM -- they have jobs, their dysfunctional parents kick them out of the house, they don't have a place to go to -- so who is looking after their interests from the same creeps who attack people who go about their lives -- you should be able to go out in the streets wearing nothing but a smile -- it does not give anyone to touch a hair on your head. So what is so dysfunctional in this society where when something bad happens to someone, the first thing people do is get on the person who didn't have sick intentions?

Why would anyone be out on a Thursday night on the rape trail? Almost every week we hear about an attack on that trail, and anyone who grew up here or has lived even a short period of time knows that the trail is dangerous. Even in the summer, when there's plenty of light, plenty of people trafficking, someone is always attacked and it's almost always a woman. Last week a man was sentenced to 44 years in prison for trying to rape a woman who was jogging at 5pm. She had a punctured lung, broken ribs, and snapped clavicle; if it wasn't for someone running their dogs, she might be dead now.

The woman was 28 years old, and the news never gave a reason for her being out so late. It wasn't near a part of town where the trail is accessed from businesses. It was in the woods, late at night, in the dark. Of course you should be able to leave your home without fear of attack, but how could she not use her fucking head and have some precaution? Everyone knows the trail is dangerous at night, and the police warn you to travel in pairs even during the day.

3. As taxpayers, we have to part with our hard-earned money to pay for police and security -- we have governments that boast that they have satellites that can read license plates from outer space -- why are they not using it to keep the people who fund these toys safer? Why don't we have police patrolling places so that things like that don't happen. Honestly, would you rather have trustworthy people out at 3 AM or the ones who will slit your throat in a heartbeat?

I don't think I understand what you're trying to argue here. I've never heard of satellites being able to read a license plate from space. We have police officers--some of whom do the raping.

So don't be so righteous and judgmental -- one day it will be you who is going to be shamed when someone does something against your will.

I was sexually assaulted at a public pool and I was told to "get over it".
But thank you for wishing that I become a victim again.

It is a real shame that people are regressing because deep down, they think if they condemn a victim, that's going to protect them from the same thing happening to them. Guess again, sweeties...

We all make mistakes -- that doesn't mean we deserve to have our lives ruined while we make a misstep.

This situation where she was a victim could have been easily avoided. You don't apply the same shitty remarks to yourself because you're a...teacher, was it?

Originally Posted by Mystic

It more so pisses me off that some douche is allowed to roam the trails attacking people than anything. I do agree that it's not the best of situation to put yourself in but what the heck is a creeper doing wondering the woods at 3am unless he stalked her or something or he's looking for a victim? Even then no one deserves to be attacked. This is why I carry a weapon and know how to use it. I work weird hours and sometimes the only times I can be out and walk/run/bike is at night or early morning. Also, if it is hot in that area, it's not very practical to be biking in the heat.

If the area is dangerous then there should be measures to protect people that use that area or it should be closed during hours where crimes are more likely to happen/at night. Not saying that closing the area would keep people out because people are going to disobey the "closed" signs (heck, I do it myself sometimes) but it would detour some people from using the trails. Instead of saying "She was asking for it" the real issue is why isn't something being done about predators in the area?

About the drinking thing...people that are that irresponsible should not be drinking.

Common sense is overrated.

I used to carry a knife in my bag when I rode the bus. I could stand a few inebriated homeless men, but there was a guy who kept asking if he could touch my hair and all I wanted to do was stab him instead of politely decline.

The trail is dangerous when you're alone. There have been characters roaming the woods just waiting for someone to not pay attention; the neighbor's kid was attacked by two men not long ago. If it wasn't for his friend having mace, they might have been toast themselves. It's a great trail if you want to get somewhere quickly, but the danger outweighs it quite heavily.

Originally Posted by Draciolus

Common sense isnt that common these days.

As for me, Ive had friends who would dress...provocatively...and wonder WHY they are getting stared at, and lewd comments thrown their way. I tried explaining it to them, but they just turnedd it around in their minds to me saying something else, which had NOTHING to deal with the situation at hand.

I'm on the fence about it. I would certainly like people to have more respect for an individual who dresses scantily. Even I've been cat-called and I was wearing shorts and a sweater; nothing provocative. It's unnerving and makes me weary of going somewhere alone. This is a great situation for the you-can-look-but-not-touch policy, a policy which some don't seem to understand.

Originally Posted by sarofset

I would never blame the victim for the actual getting attacked part, because I've been the victim and I know what it's like.

However in this day and age going anywhere secluded at three in the morning is really like walking into traffic isn't it? You know it's dangerous, and stupid. They pretty much pound it into your head from kindergarten on.

The police need to catch this creep and make an example of him.

People shouldn't be anywhere secluded at that kind of hour. That's where sickoes hang out, and they show up at late hours.

I wish they would catch him. I have no doubt in my mind that it's the same guy who follows you to your car in a parking lot at the market. The same guy who thinks that making eye contact means "welcome".
I'm happy she was able to get away, but still disappointed that she would put herself in a situation that most people would have avoided.

Originally Posted by ll P W E E P ll

So, just because she was out biking late on a trail, she might have been asking for it?
Do you cook with a gas stove? That could end in a burned house. Are you asking for it?
I handle paper all day at work. I could get paper cuts. Am I asking for it?
I drink casually, with people I know at local taverns. But I could still get harassed by unknown strangers. Am I asking for it?

No, no, no, and no.

I never said she was asking for it.
I don't know why you're assimilating a sexual assault on a bike trail with paper cuts.

It shouldn't matter the circumstance. It shouldn't have happened, period. That trail, whether it be 3pm or 3am, should be safe from people like that man. Maybe there WERE no other trails she could have taken. Doesn't it really matter? No, it doesn't. That's like saying "well, she was drunk when she was raped. Should have known better. Oh well." That man was taking advantage of the situation, and it shouldn't have happened. The woman was not dumb. The man was. Assign the blame correctly.

I blame her for not using her head. For traveling on one of the darkest and most secluded parts of the coastal trail alone at night. I blame her for not calling a friend, a colleague, a cab, a town car. For not staying on a lit street.
The man was a freak and he's still on the loose. I don't have any pity or mercy for anyone who attacks another person like he did.

I didn't say that being drunk means your rape was justified. It feels like you might have used that excuse before, though.

Wow... =.= really? 3 am? Not sure if this beats your original one, but my wife's dad hospitalized himself for eating mold of his food. He was too stubborn to listen to anyone about it and he got food poisoning from it. >.>" Same wife had to remind him to buckle his seat belt when she was like... 5-7 or so.

So yeah I can see people getting pretty dumb...

Originally Posted by jupiter

I used to carry a knife in my bag when I rode the bus. I could stand a few inebriated homeless men, but there was a guy who kept asking if he could touch my hair and all I wanted to do was stab him instead of politely decline.

The trail is dangerous when you're alone. There have been characters roaming the woods just waiting for someone to not pay attention; the neighbor's kid was attacked by two men not long ago. If it wasn't for his friend having mace, they might have been toast themselves. It's a great trail if you want to get somewhere quickly, but the danger outweighs it quite heavily.

That's just a tad bit creepy. In the city you get all kinds of people.

On the topic of common sense, this one time my ex and I were in the city with some friends and I had went inside a building to get tickets for a concert while they waited outside. When I came out, I noticed that my ex was gone so I asked my friends where she was and they said she went off to buy a homeless guy some food. So I went across the street to where they said she went and ended up finding them after heading down a side street.
The guy started freaking out and yelling at me about "sneaking up" on people when I just pretty much walked up to them. He then grabbed her hand and would not let her go which lead to me fighting him off when he tried to drag her off. Luckily we weren't too far from a busy street so I just took her to where there were people and the guy didn't follow us.

After that I freaked out asking her what she would have done if I didn't come along and that she shouldn't be so trusting of people. I was also quite pissed that our friends let her go off on her own like that too. I mean, Detroit isn't exactly a safe place in some parts.

Originally Posted by Mystic

That's just a tad bit creepy. In the city you get all kinds of people.

On the topic of common sense, this one time my ex and I were in the city with some friends and I had went inside a building to get tickets for a concert while they waited outside. When I came out, I noticed that my ex was gone so I asked my friends where she was and they said she went off to buy a homeless guy some food. So I went across the street to where they said she went and ended up finding them after heading down a side street.
The guy started freaking out and yelling at me about "sneaking up" on people when I just pretty much walked up to them. He then grabbed her hand and would not let her go which lead to me fighting him off when he tried to drag her off. Luckily we weren't too far from a busy street so I just took her to where there were people and the guy didn't follow us.

After that I freaked out asking her what she would have done if I didn't come along and that she shouldn't be so trusting of people. I was also quite pissed that our friends let her go off on her own like that too. I mean, Detroit isn't exactly a safe place in some parts.

That must have been a horrific experience. I'd definitely be jaded of anyone approaching me in the street from that point on. My God, he actually tried to drag her off! And, I agree that it was irresponsible of your friends to let her wander off alone.

I understand that not everyone wants to play babysitter, and not everyone wants to be babysat, but not everyone is right in the head. I wish we could go about our business without someone trying to drag us into an alley, or stealing our ipods, but there's that reality.

When I was a teenager, I was downtown with my mother when a man approached us (perhaps homeless or terribly hip) and told us that we were "beautiful". I wanted to keep walking, but my mother thanked him and he started to follow us. Only a few seconds later he grabbed my hand and tried to kiss it.
I shook him off and shouted "NO!" before grabbing my mother and walking off. The situations happen everywhere.

Yeah, I was more freaked out over something happening to her than I was my own safety. I tend not to worry about myself as far as safety goes as much as I should. I had someone do the hand grab thing and kiss and it is creepy! I also had someone one time grab my hand and ask me to go to his "house" which wasn't even his house but an art gallery. Luckily in that instance I just took my hand from his and walked off.

Ive seen all sorts of unwanted touching(non sexual) and what not. Especially since I work downtown, and usually dont get off work until late. I tend to see all the girls that go to the clubs on the train, and a bunch of guys who think they can take advantage of the girls(who have clearly been drinking). I tend to pretty much mute, or pause, my music, and wait for something to happen. Some of the guys, realizing I havent turned a page in my book for 5 minutes realize Im waiting to stop something, and just go away. Others, well, good thing the transit cops got onto the trains at that point. xD

I feel bad for that woman. I know a lot of people who prefer to be out at night in my town because it's just a peaceful time, and I can understand it. But to go to a place that it poorly lit and has a reputation for being dangerous is definitely stupid. It concerns me a little that there is a place that bad in your town though? Why has nothing been done about the area?

I don't really have anything more to add on the particular subject; but I would like to comment on the WAY in which it was addressed.
I think that you made it very clear that you were not placing any blame on the victim. So, I don't understand why a few people chose to simply overlook that.
It's kinda sad that you can't post something without it being picked apart and having things taken out of context. :(

Originally Posted by Draciolus

Ive seen all sorts of unwanted touching(non sexual) and what not. Especially since I work downtown, and usually dont get off work until late. I tend to see all the girls that go to the clubs on the train, and a bunch of guys who think they can take advantage of the girls(who have clearly been drinking). I tend to pretty much mute, or pause, my music, and wait for something to happen. Some of the guys, realizing I havent turned a page in my book for 5 minutes realize Im waiting to stop something, and just go away. Others, well, good thing the transit cops got onto the trains at that point. xD

That's incredibly brave of you. I don't know if I'd have the same courage to do it; there was this really intoxicated woman who wandered into my neighborhood one summer. It was late and she was shouting at a man who kept grabbing her. We heard it from inside the house and when we went outside to try and help her, she started to scream at us and actually accused us of trying to rape her. I was mortified, but there didn't seem to be anything we could do. Someone else in the house called the police because he was concerned about the man.
So it made me a little jaded. Although, if I saw contact where a person obviously didn't want it and they were verbally refusing, I could see myself standing up.

Originally Posted by Carzeebear

I feel bad for that woman. I know a lot of people who prefer to be out at night in my town because it's just a peaceful time, and I can understand it. But to go to a place that it poorly lit and has a reputation for being dangerous is definitely stupid. It concerns me a little that there is a place that bad in your town though? Why has nothing been done about the area?

I started to think about it myself. I think the city just has their mind on other things. My mayor proposed cutting hours for municipal employees, put a freeze on hiring new police officers, and shut down two of the fire stations. He did hire a "party planner" though; they can be seen "planning" late at night in his home.
It's not just the attacks, either. There are homeless camps in the woods, and there has been someone murdering the homeless. The news claims it's an accident, but it would be every two-three weeks another homeless man would 'accidentally' drown or be found dead when it had never happened before. Rumor going around was that someone was slipping them alcohol with draino.

There are plenty of peaceful areas in town at night that don't include secluded wooded areas. The trail isn't the only option, and not all of it is lit.