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Deidara
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#51
Old 11-23-2008, 04:17 PM

This coming from a kid who was adopted..

Getting adopted is a really hefty process. I don't know how many parents I've seen looking towards adopting me, most of them quit half-way in the process or picked another child. Noone really wanted me because I'm white and older than new married couples would like. The adoption agency is more likely to give away black or asian children than white, because of the whole ethnic diversity whatnot.

Foster parents also have problems taking care of most of us. They don't feel the connection a mother would to her own daughter, they're attached at first, but don't have a problem letting go. Most of us have one or another mental or physical disorder. Also something big for them to take care of.

If the parents are up for the task, they can go right on ahead and adopt. If not, they're probably doing the kids worse.

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#52
Old 12-15-2008, 02:53 AM

It's purely selfish reasons, I think.

First of all, it's easier to make your own kid. DIY and whatnot, am I right?

Second, people tend to think highly of themselves. They tend to be self-conscious as well, but people pretty consistently think they're smart or attractive or something, however subconsciously. And so they want to pass down those traits to their children. They want their children to be as much like them as possible.

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#53
Old 12-15-2008, 03:16 AM

The problem is that yes, while it would be nice if people adopted, people don't want to have to deal with the problems that can come from adopting a child. If the child isn't disabled, ill, or having any sorts of problems, then the child might have attitude issues, centering around the fact you're not his/her birth parents. Adoptive children can be unruly, rebellious...they're dealing with issues of rejection. Also, the process is very expensive, especially if you're adopting from overseas. I had an old art teacher adopt two Russian girls- adorable, but on a teacher's salary, it left her almost completely wiped for cash. If it hadn't been for her husband, those adorable babies wouldn't have been able to eat. Thankfully, they both grew up very healthy and very happy.

It would be wonderful if people adopted more, but so many problems come with it: economic, emotional...

So much would be changed if homosexual couples adopted, or infertile couples. People who desperately want children but can't have any on their own.

Now one of my best friends is adopted so don't get me wrong. She's grown up a healthy, strong, beautiful young woman, but she wants more than anything to remember what her original Chinese name was and meet her Chinese parents. Her American parents renamed her Maria...but she wants so badly to be reminded who she was before them. And that's sad.

Last edited by St_JimmyHavok; 12-15-2008 at 03:18 AM.. Reason: had another thought

Zuu
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#54
Old 12-15-2008, 04:49 AM

Zuu's opinion time....


I am all for the save the children we have now idea, but here is why I think people don't do that.

If you have a child, that child has a part of you in them, your eyes, your personality. You, You carry the child for 9 months, it becomes a part of you. It's just something amazing to exprience. Yes adopting is very important and we should take care of the children that are already here, we are over populated and we should stop have sexual relations.

But don't you want to have a little baby with your eyes?

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#55
Old 12-16-2008, 04:36 PM

There is this... what happens when everyone stops having babies and starts adopting... add on top of that... what happens when the adoption agencies run out? Are we just supposed to wait for women in third world countries to have babies they don't want so we can take them? What about making sure the gene pool stays diversified enough that children don't come out retarded? If we only have a specific number of people having children will they eventually all have the same name or all be the same color (race)? I'm not saying this is a bad thing... but there is so much JOY in giving birth to a child. There are some people that just wouldn't feel their lives were complete without experiencing it at least once. As the mother of a child I agree with this. ALSO. Adopting takes a LOT of financial backing. You have to keep your house as tidy as if you had a maid and if you're working a 40 hour job (like most women do now days when they have kids) this is hard to do. Adoption agencies have STRICT rules about who they will adopt out to. What about when you fall in love with someone? I always wanted to have a child because I wanted to be able to CREATE something wonderful with the person I loved. Nothing is more prescious or wonderful than having a child. If someone else gave birth to that child then it's not really a part of either of you.

Leda_et_al
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#56
Old 12-16-2008, 07:23 PM

The reason most people don't adopt is hurbris, plain and simple. They are vain enough to need to continue themselves through genetics and a flimsy name. Granted my beau and I are right there in that category, hence why I can speak with authority. ^_~

We don't adopt other people's children for the same reason that we don't shop at goodwill, or that male gorillas will comsume other gorillas offspring: it is not ours. It is not unique to us and does not carry our special characteristics. It is competition for our ___ and must not be brought into our space.

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#57
Old 12-16-2008, 09:15 PM

^ True, but couldn't also be financial difficulties? Or being or doing something that will cause an adoption agency to see you as unfit?

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#58
Old 12-16-2008, 09:20 PM

That is true. There are many more reasons than what I listed. I just tend to see things in black and white. It's hard to remind yourself that shades of grey are more prevalent than absolutes.

Thanks for the wake up St_JimmyHavok. <3

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#59
Old 12-16-2008, 09:22 PM

No probs Leda. I was never able to see things as black/white, so it's a bit of a curse. ;)

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#60
Old 12-22-2008, 01:09 AM

Why can't we do both? The children in orphanages won't be children forever, eventually they'll be able to take care of themselves, and they wouldn't all be adopted anyway. Some people can't adopt children, either. You have to be approved before you can adopt.

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#61
Old 12-24-2008, 08:10 PM

Why is it common sense to adopt? Just because of overpopulation? If people have the physical ability to reproduce, then why shouldn't they? Adoption isn't always the best option. So many people choose to raise foster children just for the money they can receive from the government and they in turn abuse the children. Not all people are like that, only a few percentage, but it does happen. But adoption should be a personal choice, just like having children of your own. People go through hours of labor and endure the pain because of the miracle of bringing a life into this world, and I don't think any woman should be deprived of that feeling if it's possible.

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#62
Old 12-24-2008, 08:18 PM

I don't believe adoption is the key to overpopulation. Not everyone can afford to adopt, not everyone is capable of devoting themselves in such a fashion. I think population control is a much wiser solution. I'm not saying government mandated birth control, but practical education. For example, you cannot apply personal values to a person who has never heard of, or could care less about, your values; theirs are different (not right, not wrong, just different). But the poor farm family in a third world country who keeps having children it cannot feed because they need help working their farm, a little common sense and logic would go a long way.

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#63
Old 12-24-2008, 09:29 PM

Yes, but the problem is, that whenever you tell a South American it's wrong to have that many children when you are poor, they automatically think you're going against their religion. Here churches are all "Abortions are evil" "The pill is evil" "The condom is evil" and specially "Have as many children God sends you", but never tell how women get pregnant in the first place :(

PS: Yes, I live in South America, and believe me, poor people reproduce like lice. Most families have between 4 to 8 children, and live in a house made of cheap wood and cardboard.

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#64
Old 12-25-2008, 03:33 AM

Wealth can provide more for a child, but there is no substitute for being present in your child's life. All the toys in the world aren't an adequate substitute for a parent who clearly adores their kid.

How they become one's kid is entirely up to the individual or couple. For myself, there was a time when we considered adoption because we were having trouble getting pregnant - then became pregnant. I think that, for me, I had to make a choice to be open about how the kids arrived... I'm just not clear about why it's anyone's business how that choice is made between couples - like the government or society stepping in and issuing a mandate about quotas and so forth about family size. If a family is living within their means, what's the big deal? If not, society tends to deal with it.

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#65
Old 12-25-2008, 05:01 AM

@ Kah Hilzin-Ec: I didn't mean to approach it from a religious perspective, and you make an excellent point.

I meant that, perhaps, pointing out that it will be at least 2-3 years before a child is capable of performing any meaningfully productive task, and in the interim, you have another mouth to feed and one less pair of hands to feed it with.
Now that I think about it, the only birth control afforded to a family in that situation is abstinence, and I don't know of too many cultures that encourage a woman to tell her man to go sleep on the couch when enough is enough.

But more to the point, if I (for lack of a better example) adopted several of the aforementioned family's children, I would suddenly and instantly be as poor, if not worse, as their birth family. Adoption poses the risk of creating a more wide-spread problem.

Kah Hilzin-Ec
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#66
Old 12-25-2008, 08:47 AM

No... is it true that there in the US are programs that give you birth control for free? o_o
And yeah, but maybe what we should be doing is teaching them how to prevent a problem and not really how to get used or manage with it. Well both, but put more effort on the first thing. I have had maids who think for either this or that stupid reasons they won't get pregnant [I think I mentioned that in the previous page?] and haven't reached adulthood yet. A 16-year-old shouldn't really be having sex >.< Worse if she doesn't even know the mechanics of getting pregnant >_>
About the abstinence thing, that just reminded me of a MTV ad in here, where a puppet explains [in MTV's way >_>'''] how he can sew his member back to him but you can't, and that using "the gum" is cool xD
@Elmira: But when you start having children á la Cheaper by the Dozen, it does affect people around you, and the point in making rules and laws is for there to be harmony, and as far as I know, people able to deal with more than 4 children are either saints or professional nannies o_o
@Pandy: Just because a children who grew in an orphanage will become an adult anytime doesn't mean that they'll have enough maturity to survive in the open world when he reaches that age. When one reaches maturity, one has a mother and/or father who will personally help you and guide you into independence, but... an orphan? Sure, there are people taking care of them, but they're taking mass care of them, and couldn't give a social education as personal to every single orphan than a parent would give to his/her special child.

PS: Oh btw, people aren't really that poor. At least here in South America, food is way cheaper than in the US, and there seems to be many more jobs avaible. A beggar kid can make $15 in 5 hours, more than enough to have a dish of rice with minestrome and cooked chicken, which costes $1~2 in here >_>

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#67
Old 12-26-2008, 08:41 PM

@ Kah - my experience/opinion on this subject is limited to the area I live in - I don't know of families that live in cardboard/metal homes, but I do know some who are poor and either turn to the church, families or the government for help.

My point is that if a family is doing well taking care of a large family, then why would there be a need for the government to step in and create laws governing things like family size? I'm, personally, a bit touchy about the government regulating anyone's reproductive rights - but that's another can of worms.

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#68
Old 12-26-2008, 08:53 PM

I also think people should adopt more and have children less. It's also ok for people who want lots of children to have a couple they give birth to and adopt the rest, because they would wind up treating them all the same anyway.
Personally, if I wanted a kid, I would adopt. Unless i got pregnant and was already married or something, then i'd just keep it.

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#69
Old 12-26-2008, 10:55 PM

It's pretty much in our genes to pass them on to the next generation.

Though, the biggest problems is people not being educated enough about preventing getting pregnant.

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#70
Old 12-27-2008, 12:57 PM

oh i agree with you.
my parents are an example, they admitted it was a mistake to have children and they show it, my dad isnt really a 'dad' but my mum is well, an OKAY mum.

thats why its reflected on me, where when im older, IF i feel i can take the responsibility of rasing children, i might aswell adopt n help other kids who are unwanted and raise them as my own, plus i couldnt bear the thought of going through pregnancy @[email protected]

but i understand why most people want their own, to pass on their family name and make a generation and pass on genes etc. plus another reason why in some countries, parents prefer sons coz they can pass on the family name >.>"

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#71
Old 12-31-2008, 01:48 PM

I would love to have my own children, but I don't want to have that many kids to begin with. I think just two would be fine. I don't know if later on I'll get empty nest syndrome when the kids leave for college, or if I'll end up adopting.
What should happen, and I know it's a strain on reproductive rights, but they should stop giving tax breaks to people who have tons of kids in the US. People do that here because we offer a tax break to have to take care of so many kids. However, there are more abusers of the system than people who truly wanted the kids and just need a little extra to take care of the kids. The tax break system is broken, and if we stopped offering it, people would definitely not have as many children (at least, the abusers, anyway.) Maybe if there were some sort of application/interview process and monitoring how the parents live with the children? Because some of the abusers of the system also abuse their children.

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#72
Old 01-01-2009, 05:59 PM

@ Jenova - I tend to agree that some of the people who are gaining tax cuts and other benefits because they keep having kids needs to be addressed. I'm not sure what the statistics look like for abuse, but I'd have to wonder about the issue of neglect. I know some moms in this situation who are great moms and others who really should get their tubes tied or adopt out their surplus kids.

How many kids are too many kids and at what point would/should any government step in?

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#73
Old 01-01-2009, 09:57 PM

When living in your house becomes hacination? >.> Like, a month ago 29 illegal chinese were found in an apartment probably the size of 2-3 bedrooms... which reminded me there are people who live like that [in a small house, with extra people as your siblings family] yet the keep having kids >.<''
And, seriously, if someone who isn't suitable to be a mother is living free [like, a drugaddict, or someone like my schizophrenian cousin who slept with whoever she found hot], maybe these people should be given a "T" or get their tubes tied xP

PS: Why do we have that many children anyway? x_x

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#74
Old 01-01-2009, 10:52 PM

Seems like I'm pretty alone with my view on children - that it's unimportant whether your genes are reproduced, and that the only thing that matters is that your education and your philosophy get passed down.

Don't think I'll ever have any children (don't have enough time, and I think spending a lot of time on your child is most important), but IF I ever feel ready I'ld definitely adopt.

That is (and here's another reason a lot of people choose not to adopt) if you can get a child. There are so many out there that are in desperate need for loving parents, but while it's okay for the next best socially incompetent idiot to father random children throughout the land, authorities at times make it REALLY hard for earnest people to adopt.

Being without a partner? Ewwww, no child for you.
A gay couple? Go away!
You're an atheist? Get yourself a proper religion before you ask again!

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#75
Old 01-01-2009, 11:46 PM

You mean... I can't adopt? *biggest dissapointment on New Year day* D;

PS: So that's why so many abandoned kids :/

 


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