I believe abortions should be permitted, but specifically for the people who were forced into doing it or who can't handle holding a baby and their life depends on it.

For all other people, it should be very expensive, to discourage people from getting an abortion.

Originally Posted by S A R S

I believe abortions should be permitted, but specifically for the people who were forced into doing it or who can't handle holding a baby and their life depends on it.

For all other people, it should be very expensive, to discourage people from getting an abortion.

So in others encouragement to get one done by non-skilled people and increase infanticides. Ok, understand.

When two people have sex, they are doing it for their own reasons, however, originally, sex was for procreation. The only thing that has changed, is our society's views on the matter. Guess what? Our society is fucked up. Some people kill for pleasure. Sex is not meant for fun. It is meant to continue the production of our race. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but that is the way it was meant to be. Animals have sex to breed. So do we. We have just decided that since it's fun, that isn't what it is for anymore. and about all the bad things people are saying about adoption, I have met any people who were very happy being adopted. And even if you don't have the best childhood, you can still grow up to be happy and independent. Not having the best childhood will not ruin your life.

Our society has grown so irresponsible and lazy, it really makes me sick.

Originally Posted by cyanidecookie

When two people have sex, they are doing it for their own reasons, however, originally, sex was for procreation. The only thing that has changed, is our society's views on the matter. Guess what? Our society is fucked up. Some people kill for pleasure. Sex is not meant for fun. It is meant to continue the production of our race. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but that is the way it was meant to be. Animals have sex to breed. So do we. We have just decided that since it's fun, that isn't what it is for anymore. and about all the bad things people are saying about adoption, I have met any people who were very happy being adopted. And even if you don't have the best childhood, you can still grow up to be happy and independent. Not having the best childhood will not ruin your life.

Our society has grown so irresponsible and lazy, it really makes me sick.

Sex is for pleasure, for fun, for bonding, for revenge, for the needy and the lonely, for happines and joy, for saddness and everything else.

By your logic, there would be no need to the oldest business in the book. From your logic, we would have no reason to masterbate. But congrats, the world and humans do not work that way.

FYI, sex for pleasure has been around for a long time, Kama Sutra? It is not because of our society. Abortions have also been around just as long.

We are not the only animals that have sex for pleasure, many others in the animal kingdom do, and not just for breeding. As said, sex is a bonding act, and means something to many different people.

Now, just because you can have a shitty childhood and grow up to be happy, does not mean you should. I doubt anyone who has had a bad childhood will ever wish another human being grow through the same thing. Infact most people who have bad childhoods wish to make others have a better one.

Forcing people to carry an unwanted child is the most irresponible, selfish and inhumane act you could do. I'm glad you hate children enough to make them punishments.

@cyanidecookie-- Humans are by nature meant to be omnivores, yet there are vegetarians and vegans out there. Since you so firmly believe in sticking to biology, should we go ram steaks down their throats? And even better, let's kill all gay people because humans were meant to populate the planet, and you cannot create a child with two people of the same sex.
We've kind of evolved slightly past acting only out of primal instinct. Sex is for pleasure now, not just conceiving children, and accidents happen.

What can I say? I'm pretty strict when it comes to abortion topic, and nothing said can change my mind on this - nobody should have the right to force the woman to do something with her body that she doesn't want to. I often read in newspapers stories about brave young mothers that were forced by their families to have an abortion, but they somehow managed to avoid that awful fate, and now are living with their loving children under sugar-coated rainbows. Almost everybody who reads those stories thinks 'Those people had no right to tell those girls to abort the baby! It's their baby, they should be able to keep it!'. I lookat the whole abortion case in the other way - It's their baby, they should be able to abort it IF THEY WANT TO. Crucial word, it's THEIR decision to do it. Others can advice, but not force! Even the father of the child shouldn't be able to change the decision, since basically, he's not the one who's going to spend nine months looking and feeling like a giant walrus xp. Some women take wheir happiness from carrying a baby. but there are also women, who despise the thought of having something moving inside them for almost a year, making them feel bad and look ugly. Believe me, there are. I'm one of them, and being 22 you can't really call me a teenager who doesn't know what she wants. Maybe in next ten or twenty years I'll change my mind, but looking at the fact that I'm practically nauseous at the thought of having a baby, I seriously doubt so >.>

in my religion abortion is a sin. so basically, my view is that since its a sin [in my religion and i don't mean to offend anyone] you shouldn't do it. also i think its wrong because everybody has the same amount of rights to live on earth as anyone else [i am truly sorry if i offended anyone!!]

Abortion is labeled by the religious society as wrong. I also think it's wrong in a way, but it is needed in some situations.

Example :
A sixteen year old girl is raped and impregnated. She is in now way ready for a child, and is not ready to experience the pain of giving birth.

Abortion seems to be the only choice in such a situation. The sad part is that in this day and age, these situations occur frequently. Making abortion well...needed.

I think abortions should only be allowed if the mother's life is in immediate danger. Birth control, if used PROPERLY, is quite effective in preventing pregnancy. Combine something with Depo-Provera, Lunelle, Norplant or an IUD with a condom and perhaps even spermicide and you have little to worry about. http://www.fda.gov/Fdac/features/1997/babytabl.html

I don't feel abortion is right. However I do believe in pro-choice and is the individuals right to make their own decsions concerning their life

The problem with that view is that you are allowing women a right NO OTHER PERSON has, to decide the life and death of a human being that has committed no crime, that has in fact done nothing wrong except exist.

There are so many things you have to consider when you're thinking about having kids, or when you find out you're pregnant. Do you have the money to bring up a child? Would you have to give up your job to look after him/her? Are you old enough? Do you have a partner?
Just one negative answer to these questions can make a woman want an abortion. I don't think that abortion is wrong if these circumstances would effect the child's well-being.

Of course being killed doesn't affect the child's well-being at all...and there's no such thing as adoption...

Look, I would never consider adoption if I got pregnant. If I'm having something be a parasite off me for 9 fucking months, I'm keeping the little fucker. But at this point in my life, abortion.

Theonly way I would agree for not, if at any point during the pregnancy you could remove the child and have it grow to full term then it could be murder. But congrats, it's not.

There is many reasons a women would not want to go through 9 months only to hand over the child to someone else. Not being able to work, having rude people ask you about the names, when it's due andall that fun stuff only to tell them your giving it up and get a disgust look for being a slut, the extra cost of food and medical care, post-partum despression and all sorts of other emotional issues, change in body and hormones, etc, etc.

Not to mention that there are million of children waiting to be adopt right now who are not in loving familys because they are not white newborn babies.

Birth control does not always work, and sometimes fails. That's why we have the abortion option.

I personally feel that abortion is something important to have.
I think if a person is stupid and gets pregnant on accident, then they should keep that child. If they don't want it, then put the child up for adoption, but don't kill it. There are ways to prevent the pregnancy, so it's their fault. Don't harm the poor child. But, say a woman becomes ill during pregnancy and the pregnancy becomes a danger to the mother's life, than, abortion is the safest thing to have. If the mother won't be able to live to the delivery date, then the baby won't make it. Give the mother a chance to live.
Or, say a woman is raped. Could you even begin to imagen how terrible for some woman that constant reminder for 9 months of being raped could be!?
That's my argument.

Because children and pregnancy should be punishments, right?

I love how people who are so care about these "babies" all love to treat them as punishments and that all women are dirty whore for taking precautions should be forced to carry what they never wanted to have in the first place.

Hello, people are on birth control for hat reason, to not have babies, not to b forced to have a child as a a punishment because the BC failed.

I'm gad pro-lifers hate child soo much that they have to become punishments.

Originally Posted by AkashaHeartilly

Because children and pregnancy should be punishments, right?

I love how people who are so care about these "babies" all love to treat them as punishments and that all women are dirty whore for taking precautions should be forced to carry what they never wanted to have in the first place.

Hello, people are on birth control for hat reason, to not have babies, not to b forced to have a child as a a punishment because the BC failed.

I'm gad pro-lifers hate child soo much that they have to become punishments.

Akasha, I have seen these tired emotion-laden accusations again and again and I for one am very tired of them. Please provide proof that (a) pro-lifers consider pregnancy a punishment, (b) that pro-lifers go around calling pregnant women dirty whores and (c) that pro-lifers hate children. If you can't back up your statements, kindly stop making them.

Originally Posted by Red Calypso

Akasha, I have seen these tired emotion-laden accusations again and again and I for one am very tired of them. Please provide proof that (a) pro-lifers consider pregnancy a punishment, (b) that pro-lifers go around calling pregnant women dirty whores and (c) that pro-lifers hate children. If you can't back up your statements, kindly stop making them.

1. By considering a child a punishment. To me, a punishment is a bad thing, and never a good thing. To say a women should be forced to carry a child because of any sort of things that can go wrong, is not right and makes that child a punishment. For me, that is hate and makes things never well.

2. Look above at any of the post before and that will probably come after if you want that proof.

3. From real-life experince that I have dealt with.

And me, I'm tired of all te emotion-laden accusations again and again from the pro-life commuinty. I'm tired of hearing about precious babies and adoption, and that women who become pregnant deserve it, except for rape victims or teenagers.

1. I don't consider a child a punishment. Ever. Guess what? It's totally irrevelant to this discussion. Personal feelings and rational debate don't mix well. I'm asking you for definite proof that pro-lifers consider pregnancy a punishment, not your personal feelings on the matter.

2. Still no concrete proof.

3. Personal anecdotes also don't make for good debate. They may well be the REASON you feel so strongly, but they don't make very good points.

I am going to do my very best NOT to use emotion in this debate, even to the point of using the term fetus instead of baby, though I dislike it.

ok i get where you are comming from and yes if your life is in danger you sould have the option but it is not the babys fault for the rape so why end the babys life for it. now ending the rappist life should happen but that talk is for another time. if you can not take care of the baby their are other options like adoption. i do not take ending life lightly.

I am pro-choice.

I believe every woman has the right to bodily integrity and SHOULD ALWAYS have control over her own body. Women should be able to have abortions no matter what their reason behind it is, I don't think people should even ask for the reason because it's none of their business in the first place.

These women know their lives better than you, they know their situations better than you, they know whether they can financially support a child or not, they know whether they are physically capable of even carrying a child or not. It should always be left up to them. Her body, her choice. No questions asked. End of story.

Birth control? Her body, her choice. Sex or abstinence? Her body, her choice. Abortion? NOT. HER. BODY. NOT. HER. CHOICE.

Originally Posted by Red Calypso

Birth control? Her body, her choice. Sex or abstinence? Her body, her choice. Abortion? NOT. HER. BODY. NOT. HER. CHOICE.

Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Also consent can be withdrawn at any time. Example, I consent to sex with a man, in the middle of intercourse I tell him to stop for whatever reason. I withdraw my consent for him to have intercourse with me.

If I consent to become pregnant I can still withdraw consent at any time (up to your state's or country's legal number of weeks).

Sex is not just meant to make babies.
http://www.teenhealthfx.com/answers/Sexuality/1004.html
http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2059.html
http://wrc.dos.cornell.edu/handbook/Chapter7.html
http://www.teenwire.com/ask/2003/as-...9-clitoris.php
http://www.fwhc.org/clitoraltruth.htm

Birth control has a failure rate regardless of what you use. Also despite what this website says I do believe abstinence has a failure should rape occur. Also a lot of people have certain allergic reactions to certain kinds of birth control so it may be difficult for them to find the right kind of birth control for them, do you believe that people should be forced to abstain from sexual intercourse with their boyfriends/girlfriends/spouses should they not want children at this time or ever?
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pre...olfailure.html


Yes it is her body, it is her uterus, she can have it scraped out if she wants to regardless of who or what resides within it and how it came to be there because she can withdraw consent at any time (unless of course it goes against the law which impo is idiotic. I think women should always be able to withdraw consent to pregnancy regardless of trimester. But that's just my opinion, most of the population doesn't share it. xD )


But if you don't like "My body, my choice." how about; "My medical health, my choice?"

Risks of pregnancy:

"These are the normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

-- exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
-- altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
-- nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
-- heartburn and indigestion
-- constipation
-- weight gain
-- dizziness and light-headedness
-- bloating, swelling, fluid retention
-- hemorrhoids
-- abdominal cramps
-- yeast infections
-- congested, bloody nose
-- acne and mild skin disorders
-- skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
-- mild to severe backache and strain
-- increased headaches
-- difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
-- increased urination and incontinence
-- bleeding gums
-- pica
-- breast pain and discharge
-- swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
-- difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
-- inability to take regular medications
-- shortness of breath
-- higher blood pressure
-- hair loss
-- tendency to anemia
-- curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
-- infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
-- extreme pain on delivery
-- hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
-- continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

These are the normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

-- stretch marks (worse in younger women)
-- loose skin
-- permanent weight gain or redistribution
-- abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
-- pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life)
-- changes to breasts
-- varicose veins
-- scarring from episiotomy or c-section
-- other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
-- increased proclivity for hemorrhoids
-- loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)

These are the occasional complications and side effects:

-- hyperemesis gravidarum
-- temporary and permanent injury to back
-- severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies)
-- dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
-- pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
-- eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
-- gestational diabetes
-- placenta previa
-- anemia (which can be life-threatening)
-- thrombocytopenic purpura
-- severe cramping
-- embolism (blood clots)
-- medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
-- diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
-- mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
-- serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
-- hormonal imbalance
-- ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
-- broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
-- hemorrhage and
-- numerous other complications of delivery
-- refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
-- aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
-- severe post-partum depression and psychosis
-- research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
-- research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
-- research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

These are some less common (but serious) complications:

-- peripartum cardiomyopathy
-- cardiopulmonary arrest
-- magnesium toxicity
-- severe hypoxemia/acidosis
-- massive embolism
-- increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
-- molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
-- malignant arrhythmia
-- circulatory collapse
-- placental abruption
-- obstetric fistula

And a few more permanent side effects:

-- future infertility
-- permanent disability
-- death."

http://www.safemotherhood.org/
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec22/ch258/ch258b.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pre...ions/index.htm
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pregnancy/PR00134
http://www.umm.edu/pregnancy/index.html
http://www.dukemednews.duke.edu/news...le.php?id=9555
http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/188_15663.asp
http://www.depressioncenter.org/unde.../pregnancy.asp
http://www.womenshealth.gov/faq/postpartum.htm
http://www.med.nyu.edu/patientcare/l...ChunkIID=14790
http://athome.harvard.edu/programs/r...des/rrh_2.html
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/8/620

Sorry for all the sources but I'm not sure how you, or anyone else is when it comes to the need for sources so I just put whatever I could find if you care or not.


Anyways, yeah, abortion, a serious medical decision that is difficult for many women to make. Sometimes it is the right choice for their situation I think and I do not feel it is my place or anyone else's to put our morals over their bodies and lives. Babies and children are a very big life-changing experience. I don't think it's right for people to go, "Oh! Well you should have thought of that before you had sex! Tough cookies!"

Pregnancy is no walk in the park either that's for sure and don't even get me started on childbirth. No, it's not our place to decide for other women what's right for their lives or even their bodies.

Pro-choice, yeaaah.

But seriously, the baby shouldn't be a punishment or a burden for the mother. Not a punishment, because that just isn't fair for the child. And not a burden, because it will only end up hurting the child and the parent(s).

And abortion isn't a light topic, so I'm guessing most people will consider their options and weigh them first. Allowing abortion will not guarantee that every woman is just going to start aborting their children.

I think it's wrong and I'm against anyone getting an abortion but I don't think it should be illegal. If it was, women would just revert back to the dangerous coat hanger way. It won't stop them if they really do want an abortion. I've seen what a fetus looks like after its been aborted and it is just sickening that anyone would want to do that to a child. I don't see how it would be in a child's best interest to not live at all.