It's all in how you define "masculine" or "feminine". Simple as that.

Some people consider wearing makeup feminine; some people consider listening to Cher feminine; others still say that a "girly" voice is feminine. But where do you draw the line?

Gender is a wide, wide spectrum. It's not easily attributed to sexual orientation, since sexual orientation can be vastly different from sexuality. By definition, sexuality is the expression of a person's gender. Whereas sexual orientation deals with the pigeonholing of heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, etc.

I'm a gay male, and I see a lot of discrimination within the queer world. There are effeminate guys that exclusively want masculine guys. By contrast, there are also masculine guys that exclusively want other masculine guys. This sort of thing can often be quite plaguing on internet dating sites, since there are those of us who are unsure of where we fall in that "manly" or "girly" spectrum. How do you define it? Where the hell is the line drawn already!?

So yeah. I think this is a complex issue that not even the gay community can truly describe. It's confusing for all of us. The majority of people want to have specific gender roles in a relationship, regardless of their sexual orientation. Talk about tough territory.

(Of course, due to this there's the whole "frottage" movement. It consists of gay men who refrain from "heterosexualizing" their orientation. For lack of eloquence, in these relationships anal sex is considered a heterosexual conceptualization of intercourse, and therefore they don't participate in such... Internalizing forms of sex. Ahem.)

Originally Posted by Facade

It's all in how you define "masculine" or "feminine". Simple as that.

Some people consider wearing makeup feminine; some people consider listening to Cher feminine; others still say that a "girly" voice is feminine. But where do you draw the line?

Gender is a wide, wide spectrum. It's not easily attributed to sexual orientation, since sexual orientation can be vastly different from sexuality. By definition, sexuality is the expression of a person's gender. Whereas sexual orientation deals with the pigeonholing of heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, etc.

Well how would you define "feminine" and "masculine" behavior/appearance?

And there was me thinking I might gain some insight here...well, I have, but that insight is that it's even more confusing than I had ever imagined! :lol:

That's why I avoid thinking, dear jellysundae. It hurts too much.

My brain is not used for smart making.

I'm a lesbian who is more on the andro/butch side and typically the more dominant one in the relationship, but I also wear makeup and occasionally do something "girly" like getting a manicure or what have you.

I don't think it really matters what you look like. I've dated butch girls (one is actually in the process of becoming a man now) and feminine girls. Your sexuality is simply your sexuality. I've said it many many times, but I don't believe it should be what defines you. I hate it when my friends introduce me to new people as their lesbian friend. Not because I'm ashamed, but I don't want that to be the first thing people know about me. It's not like people walk around introducing me as their Buddhist friend or their artsy friend or their hipster friend, just their lesbian friend. I don't understand it.

/slightly off topic

I don't really get that either - I identify as somewhere between bisexual and gay... I'm not sure yet, but I've always been feminine. I'd hate to have short hair, so I don't get it either.

Originally Posted by Jovial

I hate it when my friends introduce me to new people as their lesbian friend. Not because I'm ashamed, but I don't want that to be the first thing people know about me. It's not like people walk around introducing me as their Buddhist friend or their artsy friend or their hipster friend, just their lesbian friend. I don't understand it.

Jovial:

I think that's back down to people's need to pigeonhole others. People use obvious stuff as a way to label others. Race and orientation being two very typical ones.

You can bet your life that if you were in a wheelchair that would take president over your being a lesbian, you'd then be the disabled friend, because it would be the most obvious defining characteristic.

For some other people it would be their red hair, for people like me it might be my glasses, or! Say if I was in a room full of other Mene people, it would be the fact that I'm British.

Are you the only lesbian in your immediate peer group?

I am a lesbian, but you couldn't tell with my long curly hair and my feminine but not girly wardrobe.

Frankly, it all boils down to choice. Out of the women I know who try to look like the typical 'dyke', I have three main reasons for them choosing to look more like the stereotype.

1.) Media and pop culture tells them they should.
It is just like how most women thrive to be thin with flowing hair and prominent chests because that's how the majority of women are portrayed in media. People grow up seeing the stereotypes of lesbians portrayed all over, be they negative portrayals or not. When a woman realizes she doesn't like men, she will conform to the idea of how she should look, that way people know she is a lesbian, and she can attract a girl.

2.) It's a form of empowerment.
Women want to feel equal to men, so why not look like them? If they're truly equal, then no one will care if they look 'like a guy'. Plus, if you look like a guy, you don't have to worry about strait men hitting on you.

3.) They just like it.
They like having short hair that is easy to take care of, and a lot of them like how they look with their hair cut short. They like wearing comfortable clothes that won't attract attention from men and might attract attention from the right kinds of women.


In the end, it all boils down to the individual.