@Mogwai: Yeah, change is hard to see in Japan. You start with one person with an idea, that person doesn't go to the top and tell everyone "Hey, look at my awesome idea! Let's do this." Instead they get consensus with their peers, then that moves up to the next level, when those people on the chain reach consensus, it moves up from there and so on. It takes time. You go through the whole chain so everyone is aware of what's going on. Then after the lengthy discussion/approval process, the actual change itself tends to be very rapid. (Not for everything of course, but for big changes it seems to follow this pattern in the world of Japanese offices.)

I guess I could use construction, for example. There was a building near my place that was abandoned for awhile. Then one day I saw some trucks parked there. "Oh cool, there will be a new business soon," I thought, assuming I'd be seeing the construction gradually progress the next month or so. I went away for a short vacation and the whole project was already finished when I got back! A few days later they had the grand opening for the new convenience store on my block.

I think you're right about Japanese TV. I don't think they totally ignore the problems of Japanese government, I mean, they will report any major scandal in the regular news. But they certainly don't appear to be openly critical of the government on NHK (the state run TV) which is what most people watch. I've been watching more TV since I started dating my boyfriend and I've actually become a lot more fond of it. I agree it's mostly pointless fluff full of celebrities and "talent" I don't care about, but a lot of the programs aim to teach you about stuff (cooking, foreign cultures, interesting facts, wildlife, etc.) Are they full of bias and advertisements? You betcha. But if you can ignore the ads, I feel like there's a lot of worthwhile programming.

Honestly, I have no idea what people think about dolphin meat or government policies regarding it. I've heard that some people eat it down south (I live in northern Japan) but that it's not a major food source. In fact, I'm pretty sure the government has been unable to sell all the whale meat they get the last several years because there's no demand for it. Whale meat is rarely if ever eaten by most people. From what I've heard (I'm no expert) the reason they still hunt whales is that some ultra-conservatives refuse to give it up since they don't want to cave to "international bullying". Pretty sure all the recent polls say that the average Japanese person doesn't care if whaling is outlawed or not. I've had whale before; it's not bad but certainly not a food you'd want to eat on a regular basis.

I don't really think this is the place to discuss whether or not dolphin/whale meat is ethical though. Maybe make a critical thinking thread about it? I'd talk about what little I know about it there if you want.

As for teaching, you're right that most teaching styles are the "boring" kind where students take notes and the teacher tells them everything. I've talked about that in this thread if you want to take a look and give your opinion.

Originally Posted by Mogwai

All in all, you're right to say that every government has it's own flaws. That's why I also would love to live in Japan. Life seems much simpler there.

I strongly disagree with this. Japan is not an easy place to live as a foreigner if you want to live there permanently. You have to make a lot of sacrifices and make a huge effort to "fit in" even though you never will. Once you strike that balance, it's not too bad, but you will be reminded all the time that you don't belong. In my case, it doesn't bother me now and I don't take it personally. But I'm afraid that my feelings may change once I have kids and have to watch them struggle with fitting in too.

@Ferra - Thank you for your long and detailed reply (: it was an interesting read. And yes, I won't talk about the dolphins anymore ^^" I'm not sure if i'll post a new thread about it though, but if you're really interested in it, I strongly recommend you to watch this documentary - it's a very good one: The Cove | Watch Free Documentary Online. I was sure dolphin and whale meat was pretty popular. In the documentary there was a school that served dolphin meat to children. Japan is still killing thousands of dolphins each year - doesn't sound like their meat isn't popular. But who knows. Perhaps you're right. And that's it, I won't talk about it anymore (:

hm..I'm not sure i'll ever move to Japan though, so i'm pretty talking hypothetically here. It's just a nice dream of mine that most likely will never come true XD I like it that the places in the more rural areas are small and compact, and people go to work with bicycles. There is almost no crime out there, and even woman can walk the streets at night without feeling threatened. Is that true? I also understood that if you're being caught by the police doing a crime, they call your family and even your work place to tell them about your crime, is that true? It's a pretty good idea though, so people will be really afraid committing a crime, because they might lose their job and such. Nice idea :P humiliation sometimes works better than any other punishment hehe.

Oh, and about the "fitting in"... Is it really that bad? And is it really so important trying to fit in? Can I just choose that it doesn't bother me too much and not try to fit in as much as I can, especially if I know that it doesn't matter how hard I try, i'll never truly fit in no matter what I do?

Oh and btw - i'll try that link later when i'll have the patience. thanks (:

@Mogwai: Glad to hear it! I worry when I start talking about Japan since I tend to talk a lot and get off topic. So it's nice to know you found it interesting. I'm more than happy to keep talking about dolphin/whale meat controversies with you, by the way. Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to shut you up. I just think we should do it in a different thread since it's not really related to international friendships.

Hmm... I don't live in a rural area, so I can't say for sure. But driving through the countryside, it doesn't seem like everything is very compact. My friends that work in rural towns say that they have to drive for miles and miles to visit all of their schools since they're spread out. If you don't have a car or can't drive, you're probably stuck in your town unless you happen to have a train nearby. Rural towns are disproportionately full of elderly people since young people leave for the cities, so there are not many people in your age group to socialize with and also not much to do for entertainment. There are plenty of pros to living in the countryside, but those are some of the drawbacks I've learned from talking with rural English teachers.

Violent crime is pretty low in Japan, probably because everyone watches you wherever you go and people often report shady behavior. Small towns tend to know everyone else's business since gossip is the main form of entertainment. I've never had any trouble with the law, so I don't know about how the police handle things. But I think they will call family/work depending on the crime. Personally, I don't think you should be publicly shamed for being arrested though. If you're found guilty of a crime, sure, but if someone accuses you of a crime, I don't think you should be shamed and lose your job. At that point, no one knows if you're actually guilty. That's something I think America does better: innocent until proven guilty.

I can only speak for myself. Usually I don't care that I'm being treated different most of the time. Total acceptance is not a big deal to me and people are generally very kind to me, more so than if I were Japanese or Japanese-looking. But there are some times when it's frustrating and uncomfortable. Strangers will directly comment about your weird hair/eyes/skin/nose/weight/height/etc. You get left out of ceremonies at school because people forget about you. Some service people stare at you like a deer caught in headlights because they're afraid you'll speak English at them. I had a Japanese guy flirt with me a lot and then casually mention his girlfriend. When I confronted him about it: "Hey wait, you have a girlfriend? Wouldn't she mind that you're talking like this to another girl?" He replied, "Huh? But you're a foreigner. You don't count." Ouch.

It's not terrible. Minorities in other cultures face a lot worse and more overt discrimination. But if you want to live here long-term, you have to come to terms with that.

.

Interracial relationships do not bother me, but I don't know if I could ever be in one. I grew up in a primarily white community. There are a few african american people, but perhaps one or two in the city of two thousand people. A lot of Mexicans moved in, and to be perfectly honest, I don't see how they've contributed to the community. Most of them don't have jobs, live in a trailer with ten other people, and are just ... awful. That sounds horrible, but I have reasons to feel that way. When I was in high school, I had a friend who was 16. She got into a relationship with one of the Mexican men, who at the time was almost thirty! She got pregnant, and he took her down to Mexico to have the baby. She willingly went with him, but now she can't come home easily, because the child was born in another country. A lot of that happened. Those who got a job, work hard, and provide for their family - good for them. Another girl I went to school with had a child with one of the men, but he was her own age, and they're still together. He works, so does she, and I think that's a far better relationship than the previous one. But to be perfectly honest, I think of fair skin as attractive. Maybe it is because of how I was raised, but I don't think so. My family was pretty open about things. Most other families around the area I grew up in were church-goers, God-believers. I never went to church once (except for weddings, funerals, and the like, but never for a Sunday service or anything). My mother has numerous tattoos, and neither of my parents were ever married. When I came out as a lesbian, there was a little trepidation, but otherwise since they've accepted it for me. Although I do find Asian men rather cute, especially when they have a sort of feminine feel to them. Lengthy hair, dressed nice, that sort of thing. Metrosexual, I suppose you would call it. But personally, I think fair skin is beautiful. I don't like tans on white people, unless it's a natural thing, from working outdoors. I'll pass if you look like a burned orange.

As for international, I've been never in one. I am in a long distance relationship, though. I live in Wisconsin; my girlfriend lives in New York. We've been together for approximately four and a half years. My girlfriend is originally from Europe (The Czech Republic). My family originates there, as well. My great-great grandfather came from what was then known as Czechoslovakia (I think I spelled that wrong), and my last name is definitely carrying the ring of Czech. I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with this sort of relationship. I believe it brings more of an emotional, mental connection, instead of physical. You don't have to have sex to form a relationship. While that is a lovely aspect, of course, when you are away from your partner for extended periods of time, you realize how close you are, and the time together is far more appreciated.

@Caleb: Oddly enough, despite being American myself I've never had a relationship with another American. First guy I ever kissed was from Ireland. (Dat accent. ) But he turned out to be a total arsehole. I've been attracted to men of all sorts of different ethnicities and backgrounds.

Personally, sounds like you're judging Americans by observing the worst of us. Growing up in America, I promise you that most of us are not like the terrible people you see on TV. Like any culture, once you look beneath the surface, we all want the same basic things in life (to love and be loved, to feel safe, etc.) It's not too hard to find common ground.

@PWEEP: That's a shame that your friend found herself in a very imbalanced relationship when she was young and impressionable, but that doesn't sound like something limited to Mexican culture. That happens to a lot of girls from a lot of backgrounds. I know plenty of creepy white guys seek out young women too. *shudders* Likewise, most of the people living in trailers where I live are old white people. I think a lot of what you described is a poor thing rather than a "it's their culture" thing. Especially since you say you know a lot of Mexicans who work hard. I'm sure you see that too, but it's hard to ignore those gut feelings sometimes, right? I just hope it doesn't turn you away from making friends with Mexican people.

I agree with you that the fake-tan look is totally unattractive. I'd rather be pasty white than orangey, but I'm hoping to get a little color now that it's almost summer. My boyfriend already has a dark tan since he's outside a lot more than I am. I think dark skin is attractive, but sometimes I worry about how friggin tan people get here since it seems like a lot of people, kids included, don't wear much sunscreen.

That's great that you've managed to make a long distance relationship work. I don't think I could ever last longer than a few months apart. I used to think I would be fine with distance, but now that I'm in a serious relationship I realize how much I love physically being near my boyfriend. Phone calls and texts are nice, but nothing beats an in-person conversation for me. He also loves showing me around places. Almost every week we'll visit a new restaurant or a new part of the city we've never been to together. Last weekend we stopped at an old temple he used to play at and walked around his old childhood neighborhood. Just walking around, hand in hand, watching him smile with nostalgia was wonderful. It's cute since any time he goes on a trip for work or talks about a cool place he's been he mentions "I hope we go there together sometime."

@ Ferra - That's true, but I actually am the type who tends to ask a lot of questions, constantly on my best behavior in public because at home I am VERY different. 99% of Americans would ridicule me for how I act in the safety of my own home, so really it's not that different.
Though yes every country has flaws, but I'd say for me it has less flaws than this country.

@ Mogwai - True, but if you go into that mindset then you might as well be a vegan at that point. Then you have nothing to survive off of. Also true that some of them are nice, but there's the same thing about every animal. I've seen bugs that were friendly as compared to their "relatives", so it's not like we're all that special or unique in the way we are.

Originally Posted by Ferra

@Poet:@Risque: Glad at least one of your parents has been supportive. I think it's a great idea to pass on cultural heritage and traditions. I really wish that my family kept a lot of traditions from Europe, since most of them immigrated just a generation or two ago. I plan to teach my children English and expose them to American culture as they grow up.

That makes me wonder, is it disingenuous in any way to go back and relearn the parts of your heritage that you have already lost? Traditions are mostly something that is passed on, not taken on a whim..
I've already lost a lot of my heritage, but I feel a longing to pick some customs back up, mostly out of respect for my parents and grandparents.

@Poet: I don't think I can describe it very well. Once you've experienced it for yourself, you'll understand. But please believe me when I say that it's not a comfortable feeling.

I don't think Japan is inherently less flawed than America. I just think it's flawed in different ways. For example, even though most people have sick leave written into their contract, they are expected to use their vacation days if they take time off work (unless they're hospitalized). Teachers are required to have 2 days off a week by law, but most people work everyday because they come in to "volunteer" on their days off to coach the school clubs. They aren't paid extra for it and they can't say no. That's what work culture is like in Japan.

It's always easy to look at another country and think the grass is greener, but once you live there you'll realize how good things are back home. No country is perfect, but don't be so quick to throw away the liberties you've taken for granted all your life because you find another country appealing. By all means visit or try living there for awhile, but go into it with low expectations.

@Risque: Personally speaking, it would be odd for me to reconnect with my European roots because I have such a tenuous connection to them. I've met one distant relative from Europe and I think it would be cool to visit the "family farm" someday in Denmark, but I don't think I could call myself "Danish American" since I don't know the first thing about Denmark. But I absolutely intend to pass on the few traditions I do know and other important cultural lessons I learned from growing up in America.

But, I don't think there's anything wrong with reconnecting with your heritage after you "lost" it. I used to read an illustrated children's bible a lot as a kid and although I've fallen out of practice, I'd like to introduce those stories to my kids because I feel like it was an important part of my upbringing. You can always make your own traditions too. My family would watch Ground Hog's Day every year on February 2nd, for example.

@ Ferra - Yeah I read about a group of maids that were fired and they showed up for work the next day anyways and started cleaning. It makes sense that there is a sort of duty to work. I have always hated taking breaks and stuff in a job.

Of course I wouldn't just throw myself there, but I've actually had a mild obsession with Japan since I was in 3rd grade. I've found the way they do things, the people from there I've met, they're all just fascinating. The grass may or may not be greener, but... to be honest the U.S. is slowly losing it's "freedoms" as it is.

@Poet: Honestly, I find it distressing sometimes. I like working and will go above and beyond when it's necessary. But so often it's not necessary. Unlike America, the main requirement is attendance and participation. You need to be at work, even if you're just sitting at your desk doing nothing.

Did I mention that during summer holidays, I have to use my vacation time to take days off of work? If I don't, I'm required to come to work on a hot summer day and sit at my desk for 8 hours in a non-air-conditioned room. There are so many more productive ways I could spend that time, but it's part of the job.

I'm just trying to show some examples of the side of Japan you don't normally see. It bothers me when people complain so much about America and see Japan as a sort of Anime Mecca. I love living here, but I don't regret being raised in America for one second.

Ugh sitting doing nothing @_@ that drives me INSANE....

Well odds are I'd be stuck in a cubicle if I ever lived there as I'm an engineer so I'll keep that in mind

Ah yeah, a lot of people are like that it has become depressingly popular. I believe the new term is a weaboo. I'm more a fan of anime due to it's "anything is possible" set-up. No humans are used so it's easier to pass boundaries. But if you want to explain the unseen side of Japan feel free, I'd love to learn what I can. Though it will be 5+ years before that is a possibility because I have to completely relearn the language.

Originally Posted by Ferra

@Poet:@Risque: Personally speaking, it would be odd for me to reconnect with my European roots because I have such a tenuous connection to them. I've met one distant relative from Europe and I think it would be cool to visit the "family farm" someday in Denmark, but I don't think I could call myself "Danish American" since I don't know the first thing about Denmark. But I absolutely intend to pass on the few traditions I do know and other important cultural lessons I learned from growing up in America.

But, I don't think there's anything wrong with reconnecting with your heritage after you "lost" it. I used to read an illustrated children's bible a lot as a kid and although I've fallen out of practice, I'd like to introduce those stories to my kids because I feel like it was an important part of my upbringing. You can always make your own traditions too. My family would watch Ground Hog's Day every year on February 2nd, for example.

I totally get what you mean there. But I think it's a little bit different for Asians, but I attribute that to the fact that we look really different from Americans, so even if we are 100% assimilated into American culture, it's still really easy for someone to still assume that we are fresh off the boat.
It's also generally agreed upon that most Americans are of mixed European descent, but it's not often that we will actually refer to them by their country. Weird, isn't it?
My boyfriend is hanging onto his Polish heritage by a thread, so I thought it would be a neat idea for him to reconnect some more. And we do sort of, whenever we hang out with his gramma. It's pretty cool. :3

Would you ever move back to Denmark?
Sometimes I get an urge to move to like, Hong Kong or something. Not mainland China though, I'd hate it there.

and Groundhog Day, lol. That movie is awesome.

@Poet: Yeah, this is why I visit Mene a lot at work. But I'll also try to keep busy by doing real work things too, by asking teachers if I can help or talking with students. There's more I could do so I really should stay away from the computer now that it's not freezing cold outside the staff room. (Did I mention we don't have central heating either? )

Yeah, I like how anime can cover literally any topic. It's amazing how many stories you can find about the most obscure things.

As for Japanese ability, I feel like it was better to learn Japanese in Japan rather than learn it before I came. Everyone is different, but it didn't "click" until I was surrounded by it 24/7. Something to consider.

@Risque: No, even if I moved to Denmark I wouldn't consider it "moving back" since my relatives there are distant and my parents and I have never been there. I think I'm technically more Swedish than Danish by blood anyways, but I honestly don't even know.

I agree that it is odd that Americans of European descent are rarely referred to as British-Americans or whatever, but children born to Asian parents usually are referred to by their lineage (Chinese-American, for example). I think it has to do with the patterns of immigration in America's history. The first immigrants, after the Native Americans of course, were all from Europe. At first it was easy to tell those groups apart and everyone knew where their parents came from. But within a few generations, those groups started to mix. Even within European immigrants there were different "waves" and prejudice against the newer immigrants (such as the Irish) but after a few generations they blended in. Asian immigrants as a whole are still "new" immigrants, so they have closer cultural ties to their countries of origin since they're not yet totally blended in.

This is just a guess, but I'd say that since they went to war against Europe (namely the British) early Americans probably wanted to distance themselves from their European roots and identify as "American". That might explain why so few people of European descent identify with their family's places of origin: American nationalism encourages you to be American, not anything else. Ethnic diversity wasn't embraced until relatively recently, after the civil rights movement, etc.

*pokes double post* Might wanna fix that.

Ah you're at work? :O

Yeah plus the dramatic flying off from a single punch and leaving a skidmark on the ground... it's just... so amusing.

That's true, but I need to at least be able to hold a basic conversation first because it's my belief that before visiting a country you should learn the basics so you're not constantly speaking in another language in places like grocery stores and such. I think if I'm going to visit I country I need to respect their native language. Just as I would expect someone to know at least a little English in America. At least the attempt is better than not trying.
I remember one time at a store there was a lady at the cash register. Fluent Spanish. The cashier was panicked because she couldn't find anyone who spoke Spanish. I mean it can be a big problem if you know nothing at all.

@Poet: Ah thanks! Posted that right before I left work, so I didn't notice it hiccuped and double-posted. I'm getting ready for bed now.

Oh, don't get me wrong! I think it's important to know the basics too, but I've met some people who are convinced they have to be semi-fluent before they come, and that simply isn't true. It sounds like you already have a foundation for it. You can get by with survival-Japanese if you're in a city (use gestures!) and you'll pick up the basics pretty quickly. I know some people who've lived here for years and still only speak absolute basic Japanese. Then there are others who are conversationally fluent after a few months - a lot of it depends on how motivated you are and how much Japanese you use every day.

Now reading Japanese, that's another matter. I really need to start working on that.

I don't need to be fluent, but I want to at least learn their culture and their language basics. Basically I want to be able to ask and learn in their language and avoid English as much as possible.

Thankfully I know ＿＿＿＿　は日本語で何ですか。

But really it's mostly just that I partly just want to learn what I can here first. Partly because there is a Japanese restaurant here as well I would love to speak in only Japanese at that would be an amazing experience.

Sounds good. It's hard at first, but as long as you keep trying and don't let shyness or embarrassment keep you from speaking, you'll pick things up pretty quick. Especially if you use Japanese to learn in Japanese, rather than relying on English translations.

Yeah. I actually prefer the "literal translation" over the "best guess" translation because of that.

Originally Posted by Ferra

@Risque: No, even if I moved to Denmark I wouldn't consider it "moving back" since my relatives there are distant and my parents and I have never been there. I think I'm technically more Swedish than Danish by blood anyways, but I honestly don't even know.

I agree that it is odd that Americans of European descent are rarely referred to as British-Americans or whatever, but children born to Asian parents usually are referred to by their lineage (Chinese-American, for example). I think it has to do with the patterns of immigration in America's history. The first immigrants, after the Native Americans of course, were all from Europe. At first it was easy to tell those groups apart and everyone knew where their parents came from. But within a few generations, those groups started to mix. Even within European immigrants there were different "waves" and prejudice against the newer immigrants (such as the Irish) but after a few generations they blended in. Asian immigrants as a whole are still "new" immigrants, so they have closer cultural ties to their countries of origin since they're not yet totally blended in.

This is just a guess, but I'd say that since they went to war against Europe (namely the British) early Americans probably wanted to distance themselves from their European roots and identify as "American". That might explain why so few people of European descent identify with their family's places of origin: American nationalism encourages you to be American, not anything else. Ethnic diversity wasn't embraced until relatively recently, after the civil rights movement, etc.

It must be weird to move back, cause you'd feel like an immigrant, and there's the uncertainty of how long it would take to assimilate back into your "original" culture.
I don't even hear that much of European immigrants moving to America for a few generations and then going back to their home country. For some weird reason it's just not a common thing to do.

I wonder how many generations of Asian-American mixing it would take until they can totally blend in.

As for Europeans distancing from their roots, I think it's sad that it had to come to that. But I am glad to see a revival coming. People love accents and foreign food these days. :3

My partner is Middle-Eastern -German and I'm Thai-Australian. We had an international relationship and I moved to be with him. There's always a coming together of cultures that aren't that apparent. We've both been exposed heavily to each other's cultures but there are little things that culture embeds into personalities like him being boisterous and I'm conservative.

Families still have a hard time with multicultural relationships even if they're fine with multiculturalism itself.

I guess I never really thought about Interracial relationships/friendships. If I were to see an interracial couple, I wouldn't think anything of it. I didn't know it was such a topic or even some people had issues about it.

My mom and dad are an interracial couple. I'm half filipino and half white.

It just never occurred that my parents were interracial. It's just normal to me.

@Pa-chinko: Oh wow, how did you and your partner meet? How long did you wait before you moved to be with him? Where do you live now?

How so? Did your families have a hard time accepting your relationship with your partner?

@Flowery Pit: I also wouldn't think anything of it if I saw an interracial couple back home in America, but since it's pretty rare in Japan I have to admit interracial couples always catch my attention, especially if they're a Western female/Japanese male couple like my relationship since that's even rarer. I'm sure people stare at my boyfriend and I when we're out and about too, but I usually ignore it.

I'm curious, did you have any troubles with your mixed-race identity growing up?

I live in a very small white community. We're literally hidden away in the mountains with very little connections to the outside world. We don't have cell phones an the ones that do, they can't use because we don't have signal/service. We have to drive about an hour before we reach anything considered civilization.

Anyway, We don't have anything interracial. At all. When someone non-white even steps into town, everyone stares and makes rude comments. It's disheartening. I personally have never known or even spoke to someone black. I'm literally terrified of them because I find them very intimidating.

Most people around here are very racist and close minded. They aren't really fueled by blind hate, but really just the general stereotypes and they aren't willing to learn or have them proved wrong.

The only person I've interacted with was a Thai boy who was a foreign exchange student during my Jr year. We got along really really well and almost dated, but I was scared of the distance when he would have to go back home.


Picture for some visual affect.
(Look, All white in the backround!)

I recently began small adventures early this year. I took the train and public transportation for the very first time (We don't have that stuff here, so I had to travel) and literally went into culture shock. I can not believe how many types of people there are in Philly alone.

@Ferra:

We met online on a website for culture/language exchange. We never actually dated before getting engaged. Had a strange relationship that became love eventually. Moved in with him as soon as I could since it was too dangerous where he lived. He'd come visit me or pay for a trip to see him. We live in Dubai now.

My family hated him because he's Muslim and German raised. I left them partially because of it since they expressed him and any family I had with him was not welcome ever. His family is not too keen on me either since I'm a non-Muslim, Asian, Western raised, poor background kind of person but they're as kind to me as they could be.