I think that putting obesity up on a pedestal is a bad idea. Being overweight (same as being very skinny) should not be promoted or idealized. It's unhealthy and children should be taught as such. Like others have been saying, they should just do a "regular" healthy body-size. They need to steer away from doing such dramatic waists, I think. I've noticed that cartoons often do very small waists. They don't really sexualize characters by making them curvy, but make them more exaggerated in having abnormally thin waists, and very thin arms and legs. But people need to realize that also a lot of these main characters are active throughout the movie, and that wouldn't make as much sense if they were overweight. If you have a character like Ariel that swims always, she's not going to have excess fat.

Well I think it would be unhealthy if it was something like "Ow look I'm so fat but I'm happy even if I'm going to die at 45 of a heart attack!"

However, it can be a good thing to get different shapes in disney, and not to focus the story specially about being overweight and OK, but being OK with our body. Because overweight is unhealthy, but some peoples are chubby and some not; there is nothing unhealthy in this.

From my standpoint, it is heavily dependent upon what body shape one considers "overweight". I think this girl was meaning a more full figured type of woman. Regardless of how large she is, someone with a flat stomach is always the "ideal". And, I've seen mention of a "normal" body shape floating around quite a lot. But, honestly, what is a "normal" body shape? It's the same as a "normal" personality. It's, again, heavily dependent upon ones own self, because everyone is different. As a girl who is more on the portly side, I wouldn't mind a princess with a fuller figure. This is not to ignore any Disney princesses of the past that fit this bill, I'm just saying they shouldn't be as rare as they are. And honestly, in a life where everyone just wants to live happy lives, we don't really have the right to tell people how they should look. If someone is happy with themselves, as they are, then more power too them. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should allow them to continue self-destructive behavior, because they've constructed the idea that that is a happy life, I'm just saying, we should promote confidence in oneself, no matter what body size, shape, color, or impairment you are or have. We do live in an era where girls and boys alike feel they need to be what media tells them is good.

But, it's very confusing for today's youth, and very, very unhealthy. Girls should be petite, with light, flawless skin, they should be small, well behaved individuals. Boys should be large, loud, masculine, strong and able bodied, individuals that stand up to anybody and anything without fear. And, all the same, many of their parents and their grandparents and their guardians expect their American children and teens to grow into adults that want to live the American Dream - Get married, have kids, grow old, the works.

What I want isn't an "over weight" Disney princess. What I want is a realistic Disney princess. What I want is a realistic and varied array of characters that step out of the archetypes modern media has implanted into the brains to today's youth. What I want, more than anything, is a Disney movie that drives home the message, "It's your life, you are your own person. Be who you want to be."

Oh yeah, real frontier-breaking.
There have already been a number of shows where the female lead was overweight, and I didn't hear anything heralded about the...oh, what is that you were posting..."obesity on a pedestal"? We let our fashion be dictated by a small number of neurotic men who only design for small emaciated bodies, blame body disorders on dolls instead of accepting responsibility as a parent and authority, and then completely ignore and shame a person on the other side of the spectrum. Look at any movie character in any genre; the ones who carry the most weight are thin and attractive. If you're not thin, you don't count. If you're too thin, there must be something wrong with you.

But speaking strictly in terms of Disney, I think a bigger issue is that they need to start adding more princesses from different races. And please try to make sure that a POC princess isn't a fucking amphibian for most of the film.

Should there be an overweight princess? Sure, why not. Shrek had his Fiona, so what's wrong with making one a bit bigger? Perhaps if you had another cell in that brain to rub up against the one you've already got, you could understand and differentiate between reality and what fantasy of advertising is. I don't look at a Disney princess or a Bratz doll and think, 'My God, I need to have that body.'

I get where you're coming from, but I'm about done hearing that Disney needs more POC. They could use more diversity, yes, but at least they have HAD some diversity. Dreamworks and Pixar have had ONE. Count them, ONE. POC in all of their films to date. That was Frozone from the Incredibles. With that knowledge, Disney's representation of POC is amazing. Dreamworks also suffers from making all of its POC voice actors voice animals. Although...I kinda think Eddie Murphy has a thing for voicing animals, what with Mushu and Donkey both under his belt. Also, considering that Disney does and always has owned Pixar, I'm surprised they haven't jumped down their throats yet for only ever having one POC character.

Just on a side note, Fiona isn't a good representation of overweight princesses, IMO. She was an ogre for the majority of every film. That kind of goes down the same road that Disney has with turning so many of its POC characters into animals.

Overall, though, I think most major film companies need to work on getting more diversity of all kinds.

So...The Road to El Dorado, and Prince of Egypt are the ones that may be considered to have human leads who aren't Caucasian, but it looks like most of Dreamworks movies have either some kind of goopy monster or are animal-related. And since Pixar is, as you've mentioned, a subsidiary of Disney, their animations could be arguably grouped together. Again, they seem to feature 'creatures' ('Wall-E') over any particular humanoid, and when they do, they're little old men (e.g. old man playing chess, and 'Up').
But since we seem to have already hit a quota, hey, lets call it good and forget about it. Right?

Not that it's what the thread was about.
The question was if Disney should or should not feature a film with an overweight princess. To put it shortly, I don't really give a shit because I was raised to be able to differentiate between the fantasy of a television show and the reality where I live. I never idolized Barbie's measurements, because I was raised to think realistically, and I would hope that someone could raise their kid to think the same.

I never said that there shouldn't be any more POC characters in Disney. I just think the argument is dead in comparison to other animation companies. Disney gets all the attention for these kinds of things, but other companies just drift under the radar when they are just as bad. I'm tired of Disney continually being the only company that gets beat with a stick for lacking diversity when other companies lack it as much or more than Disney does.

I agree that I don't care too much whether or not Disney has an overweight princess. I was also raised not to idolize false ideals. However, most people are not raised that way and are extremely gullible, so I think having only stick-thin "idyllic" princesses is more of a problem than we believe.

We need an overweight Princess.

Social representations of women within the media is very limited and consequently women and girls throughout Western society have developed a very damaging social anxiety surrounding their weight, physical proportions and health. Everyone has their own individual genetic makeup that makes them slightly different from everyone else, so people can be naturally slender or naturally overweight. Realistically weight is not always indicative of how healthy a person is; yes medical professionals use weight as a predictor of health factors but weight alone does not usually cause health problems (unless someone is really obese). Factors such as smoking, poor diet, and not enough exercise are better predictors of health than weight. Furthermore I would like to add that we are only looking at health in terms of physical health- what about emotional health? Women are overly critical of their bodies resulting in a distorted perception that can lead to eating disorders, unnecessary cosmetic surgery, low self-esteem ect. The statistics on this is horrifying, below is a video by tri-delta that gives some examples of these statistics.



By creating better body diversity in the media, then we have a chance to show women and girls that there is no single ideal, and that they do not have to be ashamed of their bodies or be terrified of being overweight. We all come in different shapes and sizes, so there is no point in lying to women by plugging an ‘ideal’ that does not exist. This is why having an overweight Princess is great idea because it challenges that media ideal and that social anxiety that stigmatizes overweight women.

And if you still don't believe me then listen to what my boyfriend has to say,

For one, I don't think it would be a sign of trying to make people love obesity if Disney decided to create an overweight princess. People wont look at a chubby princess and be like "I want to eat more so I can look like her." Although, I don't think it's necessarily something Disney really thinks about when they're creating their princesses. I don't think there's a need to get riled up over Disney not acknowledging every body structure...just saying. It's fantasy - FANTASY. I for one personally don't care about their bodies, skinny, chubby - whatever. I just don't see the big fuss.

I don't have a perfect body. I admit I am slightly overweight and not happy about my body. But I don't feel ashamed of myself based on a character from a Disney movie. This is because I personally look at a Disney princess's waist and realize how tiny it is. They don't make the princesses PERFECT. It's a cartoon/animation.

All of that being said, I wouldn't blink an eye if I saw an overweight princess.

For me, it would depend on how the princess' weight is portrayed. A positive message showing kids that you can be a princess even if you aren't perfect sounds okay as long as she doesn't claim she's healthy or she's fat for no reason. There is a reason she's overweight - no one is born that way. I would also hope that if she lost weight in the course of her story it wouldn't be unrealistic, such as magic, since that would send a terrible message that you can become healthy instantly with no lifestyle changes at all. If done right, she could be a powerful role-model for girls who aspire to get healthy.

Regardless, I do hope they have more female characters that aren't extremely thin though. That body type is definitely overrepresented, but I don't think they need to over-correct and make future princesses overweight.

-------

I have another discussion I want to start but since this thread is kind of related I thought I might bring it up here. I really worry about the continuing trend of childhood obesity. Today I came across this documentary and it's really eye-opening. I always think about obesity being limited mostly to the US and other English speaking nations since we don't hear much news about other countries, but it's truly a global crisis. It's so heartbreaking to see these kids living so unhealthy. I really hope we can turn things around for the next generation.


May I ask what your thoughts are on childhood obesity?

I watched all of this, I was appalled; both by the ignorance of the people, and the blatant disregard for the health of the consumers, by the companies. This kind of stuff makes me embarrassed to be human. : /

A lot of people do not read the nutrition labels.
I was surprised to find that people were not aware of what trans fat was.
That poor man, thinking that product was fat free.
Trans fat is the bad fat.
D:

One time, I saw a product with a grammatical error.
It said "Grasa Gratis!" for "Fat Free," but what it really said was "Free Fat."
"Fat Free" is "Sin Grasa" or "Without Fat."

I know! Him thinking that because it said no trans fat...that horrified me D: Whatever that product was, he thought it was actually healthy. Nothing that comes in those kind of packets is healthy. D:

I have not watched the video yet but I will at some point soon. However, I can say that when I went on a diet last year to lose my college weight I was horrified at how much crud was in processed foods. You really cannot be healthy and eat a healthy amount of calories when eating processed foods.

Yes the difficulty is, is deciding what overweight should mean? And so it opens a whole big can of worms.
To be honest I usually have an opinion or viewpoint on most things, but on this I'm finding it hard to have a strong opinion, as I am left thinking...
Let Disney do what they want to do, and consumers make their choice with their cash. And parents ultimately are responsible for what their children watch, and to a great extent how their children feel about themselves.
I find it hard to think that it effects children a particularly considerable amount. Many stories in Disney are about under dogs, that are bullied I unappreciated and they prevail.
But Disney may be missing a trick as their rivals Dreamworks have got Princess Fiona who definitely isn't a typical Disney Princess, Shrek is meant to parody the usual fairy tale Disney story, but they have created a much *loved character.
I think though a character who isn't a biologically impossible figure would be good, but the odd shapes give character to an animated person, that can be very hard to give personality to without odd quirks or gimmicks to do so.

I think the bigger problem is Disneys plan to remake 'flight of the navigator'!

I think more body shapes should be used in Disney movies (and all movies really, if I'm honest) but no, making obesity into a thing to aspire to is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong- I love big ladies and I actually find larger girls more attractive and desirable, but I'm not going to pretend that it's great and wonderful and something people should gear towards being, just as I would oppose anyone trying to be skeleton thin.

If people are happy with their weights, that's one thing, but don't make obesity the next 'big' thing, enough people die from its complications as it is.

I believe Disney should promote a healthy lifestyle. An overweight Disney princess has the potential to exacerbate an already growing problem.

I think it can be both a good and bad idea.

The idea of having a curvy Disney princess is appealing. I am a curvy girl, but am by no means obese. Disney seems to convey that the pretty, skinny ones are the ones that get guys, whereas the bigger ones are less likely to do so. The only reason I say this is because of the 'ugly stepsister' thing in Cinderella and things like that.

But it's bad because of what it can convey to little girls. If they think that they are okay being overweight they possibly will end up dooming themselves to an unhealthy life.

I don't think that having a girl with more curves is a bad idea. But calling her 'fat', 'overweight', 'obese', etc is a bad idea. Also making her unhealthily sized does convey a wrong message of childhood obesity.

I think they should just make one that's not a size 0.

I think an overweight princess would be fine, I don't think it's something that would be a bad role model necessarily. My problem with these kinds of petitions and movements is that people are never going to be satisfied no matter what. When there's black/not Caucasian princesses or characters, people are upset by the specific shade of skin or the general aesthetic or body type, or that disabilities or OTHER races weren't represented. When other races are represented, people say it's not historically accurate for them to be there (I saw someone upset that there was a black person in the new Maleficent movie. There were fairies and living trees, calm down).

When there's fuller figures, I think people will say that it's still a typically attractive plus sized princess instead of I don't even know, an "ugly" one? A morbidly obese one? It's really hard to give everyone the representation that they deserve, and in fact, is really not always possible. I realized this when I saw a post on tumblr where someone had actually made disabled and overweight princesses of different races, and people STILL said that it wasn't diverse enough and didn't represent "true" overweight and disabled people.

On the bad role model note, overweight people are not necessarily unhealthy people! There are people on the path to become olympic athletes who are considered highly overweight, especially females. This is not only by societal standards but by medical standards as well. And I agree that kids are not going to eat a whole bunch to gain 60 pounds and be like the princess, just like white girls don't paint themselves black to dress up as Tiana and vice versa for other races and the white princesses. I've never heard a little girl say she wished she was Asian so she could be like Mulan, she just dressed up like Mulan and did her thing.

Originally Posted by Bunn

On the bad role model note, overweight people are not necessarily unhealthy people! There are people on the path to become olympic athletes who are considered highly overweight, especially females. This is not only by societal standards but by medical standards as well. And I agree that kids are not going to eat a whole bunch to gain 60 pounds and be like the princess, just like white girls don't paint themselves black to dress up as Tiana and vice versa for other races and the white princesses. I've never heard a little girl say she wished she was Asian so she could be like Mulan, she just dressed up like Mulan and did her thing.

I disagree with this kind of thinking though. Yes, there are some people who are body builders and would fall in the obesity range of BMI calculations because it calculates by weight, not fat percentage, but that is far from the norm. Most people aren't heavy because they have a ton of muscle, they are heavy because they have a ton of fat. And having a lot of fat is not healthy. It puts a ton of stress on your joints and your organs. It may take some time to catch up to you, but it will eventually.

I've had such a hard time organizing my thoughts here because of all the fat-shaming, body policing crap that I've read. I know most of it is uninformed, ignorant BS - so I don't want to take it personally, and I know no one here means it personally - but dealing with this kind of shit daily gets tiring, so excuse me if I come off a bit rude.

First off - definitions.

Obese is defined as a BMI of 30 or more. BMI IS SO INVALID IT HURTS. Health professionals have started moving away from it because...guess what... It's outdated BS.

I myself have a BMI of 34. I am 5' 4'', 190IBS, with a 35 inch waist, a size 12-14 depending and though a self-identified fattie - my body is not gross, unhealthy, or unrealistic.

Originally Posted by ElysiumFate

I'd rather read everyone else's opinions on this, so I'll mostly keep my two cents out of this. One thing I did read, however, that I thought was a good compromise is that Disney shouldn't have an overweight princess, rather a princess who has a normal body type.

First of all... what is normal? Normal is an average, usually a mean... for America this would mean that a normal body type is 5'4″, has a waist size of 34-35 inches and weighs between 140-150 lbs, with a dress size of 12-14... Not too far off from my 'obese' body?

So... I would argue that an 'overweight' body type is a normal body type.
This girl isn't petitioning for a 600 Pound princess who can't get out of bed - she's asking for a Princess who looks like her.

And while I don't particularly care what Disney does - I care about the attitude around issues like this. They're disgusting. Your weight does not correlate to your health. All those scientific studies usually fail to take in diet, activity level. An 'obese' person who eats healthy and gets daily exercise is NOT more likely to be unhealthy then a 'normal' sized person who eats crap all day.

Originally Posted by Lexadis

I don't approve of the idea of 'plus size Disney princess'. I mean, I personally don't think that people who are overweight (myself included) should have a high self pride about themselves..

I'm sorry you're not happy with your body. But this statement is gross.

Originally Posted by jellysundae

This is interesting :o I'm assuming the girl making this petition is overweight? It's an unrealistic request, but then she's 16, still of the age when you do ask for unrealistic stuff.

I think a fat princess would be going too far the other way. Too skinny = not good, overweight = not good; just make 'em a healthy size!

The size of the girl in question is a normal, healthy size.


----


I don't particularly feel like continuing on at this point, so my final point is that everyone seems to be thinking she's asking for this:
This...
When really, shes asking for
This.

Or this.

Well, since this is the subforum for debates, I think I'll try to reply to some of your points. I know this is a hard topic to discuss civilly, so I apologize if I seem insensitive.

Originally Posted by 2Femme

Obese is defined as a BMI of 30 or more. BMI IS SO INVALID IT HURTS. Health professionals have started moving away from it because...guess what... It's outdated BS.

I agree with you that BMI is far from exact and often isn't a good indicator for determining the fat percentage of individuals. But it is a useful tool when looking at populations as a whole. It probably shouldn't be relied upon when evaluating health, but it's not a bad starting point since it does apply fairly accurately to the population at large.

I myself have a BMI of 34. I am 5' 4'', 190IBS, with a 35 inch waist, a size 12-14 depending and though a self-identified fattie - my body is not gross, unhealthy, or unrealistic.

I'm not going to make judgements about your body since it's not my place to do so, but since you brought it up... How do you define "healthy"?

First of all... what is normal? Normal is an average, usually a mean... for America this would mean that a normal body type is 5'4″, has a waist size of 34-35 inches and weighs between 140-150 lbs, with a dress size of 12-14... Not too far off from my 'obese' body?

I disagree. Just because 2/3 of Americans are overweight right now doesn't mean that an overweight body is the normal state of a human body. Would you consider a malnourished person from a country plagued by famine to be "normal" if the majority of the population was critically underweight? It's the same issue but in reverse.

And while I don't particularly care what Disney does - I care about the attitude around issues like this. They're disgusting. Your weight does not correlate to your health. All those scientific studies usually fail to take in diet, activity level. An 'obese' person who eats healthy and gets daily exercise is NOT more likely to be unhealthy then a 'normal' sized person who eats crap all day.

What about the scientific studies that do take diet and activity level into account and still show a correlation between obesity and health issues? You're saying there is no correlation between weight and poor health at all? Even if that person is several hundred pounds overweight?

---

To add some of my own thoughts:

I think the "obesity epidemic" is largely the result of an overabundance of cheap calories being consumed by a society that is becoming more and more sedentary. If you're consuming more calories than you're using, it will get stored as fat and that adds up over time. But I realize there's a lot more to it when it comes to society's relationship with food and fitness.

It's really hard to avoid eating too many calories these days since sooo many things, especially cheap and delicious things, are packed with hundreds of calories. And most people simply aren't active enough to burn off what they eat if they consume calorie-dense foods. Explicit exercise wasn't really necessary until recently since people used to burn off calories from work/playing and we didn't have as many high fat, high calorie meals, snacks, and sodas in our diets.

Our bodies are amazingly resilient so I agree that you probably can't see the effects of the extra weight right away. You might have clean blood tests, few colds, etc. So technically you are "healthy". But overtime the weight does catch up to you. It stresses your organs, plaque clogs your arteries, your joints hurt, among other things. Does it affect everyone the same? No. No every obese person gets diabetes or has a heart attack. But it's disingenuous to say there's no correlation between excess fat and poor health over time. That's like saying there's no correlation between lung cancer and smoking just because not every smoker gets it and no every lung cancer patient was a smoker.

So my point is, I agree that shaming is bad and no one should tell that girl or any other overweight person "You're gross!" But I don't think we should start normalizing obesity and I don't think we should encourage anyone, especially young girls who are starting to form habits that will follow them for the rest of their lives, to become fat.

Originally Posted by Ferra

I'm not going to make judgements about your body since it's not my place to do so, but since you brought it up... How do you define "healthy"?

For simplicity sake - I'm going to say 'without disease/sickness and able to function as should' a strictly medical definition, leaving out the mental health aspects. (God I cringe when asked this, I'm a nursing student and we spend a ton of time on this topic) My lab values are great, BP and pulse are great, and my chronic illness is unrelated to my weight.

I disagree. Just because 2/3 of Americans are overweight right now doesn't mean that an overweight body is the normal state of a human body. Would you consider a malnourished person from a country plagued by famine to be "normal" if the majority of the population was critically underweight? It's the same issue but in reverse.

I don't really consider a size 12-14 overweight. By BMI standards, by all mean its overweight. So I still stand by its a normal body size, and should be considered as such - along with smaller sizes too of course. There isn't really one 'normal' when it comes to body type.

What about the scientific studies that do take diet and activity level into account and still show a correlation between obesity and health issues? You're saying there is no correlation between weight and poor health at all? Even if that person is several hundred pounds overweight?

That was a bit of an over simplification - but I personally have not come across those articles - or articles that differentiate between weight classes and when it starts to become a problem. I think there is a difference between an 'extra' 50 and an 'extra' 300. I don't really see it being an exponential growth - for every x pound 'overweight' you are x % more likely to have health problems... Health and risk factors are just to complex for me to even see that as an option - especially because body fat, and the reasons you have it, and where you carry it are all factors.

To add some of my own thoughts:

I think the "obesity epidemic" is largely the result of an overabundance of cheap calories being consumed by a society that is becoming more and more sedentary. If you're consuming more calories than you're using, it will get stored as fat and that adds up over time. But I realize there's a lot more to it when it comes to society's relationship with food and fitness.

It's really hard to avoid eating too many calories these days since sooo many things, especially cheap and delicious things, are packed with hundreds of calories. And most people simply aren't active enough to burn off what they eat if they consume calorie-dense foods. Explicit exercise wasn't really necessary until recently since people used to burn off calories from work/playing and we didn't have as many high fat, high calorie meals, snacks, and sodas in our diets.

Our bodies are amazingly resilient so I agree that you probably can't see the effects of the extra weight right away. You might have clean blood tests, few colds, etc. So technically you are "healthy". But overtime the weight does catch up to you. It stresses your organs, plaque clogs your arteries, your joints hurt, among other things. Does it affect everyone the same? No. No every obese person gets diabetes or has a heart attack. But it's disingenuous to say there's no correlation between excess fat and poor health over time. That's like saying there's no correlation between lung cancer and smoking just because not every smoker gets it and no every lung cancer patient was a smoker.

So my point is, I agree that shaming is bad and no one should tell that girl or any other overweight person "You're gross!" But I don't think we should start normalizing obesity and I don't think we should encourage anyone, especially young girls who are starting to form habits that will follow them for the rest of their lives, to become fat.

I think the food you eat plays a large role in health. A fat person who eats healthy wouldn't be more at risk then a skinny person who eats crap all day. I feel like there is the assumption that fat = poor diet = unhealthy?

And I shall counteract your point to say again - that a princess my size - the size in the images I posted - is in no way encouraging people to become fat. That's like saying people will want to cut off their leg after watching how to train your dragon.... It's just ridiculous - but I bet amputee kids felt pretty awesome about it.

Originally Posted by 2Femme

For simplicity sake - I'm going to say 'without disease/sickness and able to function as should' a strictly medical definition, leaving out the mental health aspects. (God I cringe when asked this, I'm a nursing student and we spend a ton of time on this topic) My lab values are great, BP and pulse are great, and my chronic illness is unrelated to my weight.

So if I was a heavy smoker but I had great blood work and pulse and every other measure of vitals when I was examined, would you say I was living a healthy lifestyle?

I would argue that I may be healthy in that moment, but I think it's fair to say that I'm doing damage to my body that can't immediately be seen or measured by medical tests. Over time I would probably start to develop a cough and be less able to perform vigorous physical activity without getting winded, but I would still be functional.

That's how I view obesity in the sense of being "unhealthy". It's not that you instantly become sick or something, but you're doing damage to your organs and joints and your body has to work a lot harder to carry your extra weight than it would if you were in a normal, healthy weight range. You can't compare two individuals, but if you compare the same person at a normal weight and at an obese weight, that person would be less "healthy" while obese because they would be at a greater risk for health issues because of the extra stress/damage on their body. That's why I think it's a fallacy to compare two people's eating habits and say "Well hey, some skinny people eat terrible and get sick too, so being fat isn't a problem!"

I don't really consider a size 12-14 overweight. By BMI standards, by all mean its overweight. So I still stand by its a normal body size, and should be considered as such - along with smaller sizes too of course. There isn't really one 'normal' when it comes to body type.

I think the food you eat plays a large role in health. A fat person who eats healthy wouldn't be more at risk then a skinny person who eats crap all day. I feel like there is the assumption that fat = poor diet = unhealthy?

Can I ask a personal question? Feel free to not answer if it makes you uncomfortable. Have you always been overweight? I ask because I felt a noticeable difference between my energy level and general health when I was at my highest weight compared to my weight now. Based on that personal observation I believe there's a definite connection to weight and health even if you're not super morbidly obese.

I was a US size 8~10 at my largest and I'm about a 4~6 now. At my peak weight I felt sluggish and could tell I was out of shape. I had rolls forming on my belly and I felt uncomfortable. I ate "junk food" in moderation, but I still gained weight because I was no longer as active as I used to be. I played sports my whole life until college, but I didn't change the amount of food I ate once I stopped playing so I started to slowly pack on the pounds.

But when I was about a size 8 I felt totally normal. I was pretty active although I didn't exercise much. I looked normal. I looked at my mom who is skinny and my dad's female relatives who were curvy/chunky and just assumed I took more after my dad's side and that even if I tried hard, I'd never loose my curves and be like my mom. I figured "this is the size I'm meant to be". I was in the "average" range for weight, but definitely on the higher end.

Then four years ago I moved to Japan and my diet and lifestyle changed completely. I ate fewer high calorie snacks and less often. I drank tea every day instead of soda. And I no longer had a car, so I started walking everywhere. My appetite also changed as I started desiring less food since I was eating more greens that were much more satiating. Without a lot of effort, I started to gradually lose weight. And now, without much effort I can maintain my size at about 130lbs (I'm about 5'6").

I think you're right that poor diet plays a big role in health, but I think that even if you overeat very "healthy foods" it's still hurting your body. You're doing your body a disservice to consume more calories than you need, if you're doing it on a regular basis, even if the food you're eating is fresh and not loaded in extra chemicals, fats, and sugars. But considering how most healthier foods are very satiating, I don't think most people become fat because they're eating too many fresh veggies. They are probably eating foods that are processed or loaded in sauces that have tons of hidden calories. Even a salad can become overloaded with calories if you add ranch dressing and bacon.

May I ask, what do you consider to be healthy foods? What are junk foods? Is a home cooked meal that is loaded in oil and butter better than a salad at McDonalds?

That was a bit of an over simplification - but I personally have not come across those articles - or articles that differentiate between weight classes and when it starts to become a problem. I think there is a difference between an 'extra' 50 and an 'extra' 300. I don't really see it being an exponential growth - for every x pound 'overweight' you are x % more likely to have health problems... Health and risk factors are just to complex for me to even see that as an option - especially because body fat, and the reasons you have it, and where you carry it are all factors.

That's a fair point. I think it would be good if more studies focused on the impact of smaller amounts of excess body fat. So many people think that "obese" only refers to people who are super morbidly obese, but I think even smaller levels of obesity impact health even if it doesn't make you bedridden.

I agree that it's pretty much impossible to get an exact percentage when talking about risk factors (thinking about things like carcinogens or radiation that increase your risk of cancer but by no means guarantee you will develop cancer) but I do think there is a direct connection between obesity and health complications when you reach a certain point. I can't pinpoint where that line is, but I think it's fair to say that if your weight has made you unable to jog a mile without incredible suffering, it's negatively impacting your health.

And I shall counteract your point to say again - that a princess my size - the size in the images I posted - is in no way encouraging people to become fat. That's like saying people will want to cut off their leg after watching how to train your dragon.... It's just ridiculous - but I bet amputee kids felt pretty awesome about it.

I agree with you on this point. The princesses you posted earlier are a little thicker, but not very obviously overweight. You could even argue that it would be a stylistic choice more than an attempt to make the princess look overweight. And even if they made her very obviously fat, most kids probably wouldn't think "Ooo, I want to be like her!" and purposefully become obese. But if her motto was "Being fat is awesome!" and Disney ran promotions giving away cake and encouraging kids to gain weight, that wouldn't be cool. I think the message she sends would be important.

If her weight was made a focus of her character, I think it would be good if she encouraged kids to be active and reach a healthy weight. And I don't mean "fat shaming". I mean, make her a confident, normal human being and show kids that with some honest effort and a permanent lifestyle change you can lose weight and become healthy. She should decide to do it for herself. She could be a great role model for girls to empower themselves and become healthy for their own reasons.

Originally Posted by Ferra

Can I ask a personal question? Feel free to not answer if it makes you uncomfortable. Have you always been overweight? I ask because I felt a noticeable difference between my energy level and general health when I was at my highest weight compared to my weight now. Based on that personal observation I believe there's a definite connection to weight and health even if you're not super morbidly obese.

No, I have not. About two years ago I was around 140Ibs, my hips were around 38, my waist 30. I think I was a size 8 or 9? But my body didn't have much excess fat. I've always been really curvy - my bra size has been DD+ since I was 14. The I started feeling super crappy. I was dealing with a chronic illness, mental illness, terrible period pains. So I went on a bunch on new medication at the same time. Most of them had side effects of weight gain - but I gotta say I feel a whole lot better now then I did then.

May I ask, what do you consider to be healthy foods? What are junk foods? Is a home cooked meal that is loaded in oil and butter better than a salad at McDonalds?

I generally follow the Canadian food guide? I eat around 1200-1500 calories a day - mostly veggies. I drink milk occasionally, and I do love my cheese but I don't eat it daily.. usually it's a special Streator when I go to the fromagerie (cute little cheese cafe we have here). Lately I've been eating more red meat and Iron rich veggies because of the anemia.

Junk food would be the snack foods. Chips, pop, desserts, etc...

I myself don't cook with a lot of oil or butter - and McDs is a 'When I'm really drunk at 1am' thing. But I can't say which is worse... cause McDs salads have a ton of crazy in their dressings. Hard to say. :P

I agree with you on this point. The princesses you posted earlier are a little thicker, but not very obviously overweight. You could even argue that it would be a stylistic choice more than an attempt to make the princess look overweight. And even if they made her very obviously fat, most kids probably wouldn't think "Ooo, I want to be like her!" and purposefully become obese. But if her motto was "Being fat is awesome!" and Disney ran promotions giving away cake and encouraging kids to gain weight, that wouldn't be cool. I think the message she sends would be important.

If her weight was made a focus of her character, I think it would be good if she encouraged kids to be active and reach a healthy weight. And I don't mean "fat shaming". I mean, make her a confident, normal human being and show kids that with some honest effort and a permanent lifestyle change you can lose weight and become healthy. She should decide to do it for herself. She could be a great role model for girls to empower themselves and become healthy for their own reasons.

The I first part just sounds ridiculous, I can't see that ever happening. It would be a body positivity campaign rather then a beimg-fat-is-awesome campaign. :P But yes, you're right that probably wouldn't go over well.

To the second, again I disagree - I think the story shouldn't be focused on her weight at all? It should just be part of her character. Having the one bigger princess's story be about losing weight is hella harmful in my opinion. This doesn't mean she's going to be a character who is constantly eating, or catching her breath throughout the movie - just that it's not a big deal that she's not thinner?