Originally Posted by Keyori

We've discussed this in this thread already. No, doing "sex acts" is not the same as "having sex." You can ask just about any couple with a healthy sexual relationship and they'll say the same thing.

No, there aren't, and this fact has been covered several times in this thread.

Except you're not stuck with an abortion for a minimum of eighteen years. With proper counseling and support, a woman can learn how to cope. You underestimate the resolve that some women have (I love you Molly!)

I know for certain that I would regret giving up a child sooner or later, I'd wonder, "Is their family good enough? Are they like me? Are they smart? Athletic? Do they resent me for abandoning them? Do they want to meet me? What if?" If I were to have an abortion, it'd be a simple matter of only, "What if?" But, for the sake of my future children (or current if I've already hit my personal limit), it won't matter nearly as much. I won't have to tell any children I do have that they have a sibling somewhere in the world.

As a side note, I have neither the time nor the money to even carry a child to term. I'm trying to finish school, and I'd have to take a whole semester off to deal with the pregnancy towards the end of my term. That is definitely something that I am not wanting and cannot afford to do.

you're right, you're not stuck with an abortion for 18 years. u're stuck with the repercussions for the rest of your life. a woman's resolve is great, yes, but the pain many women feel after the abortion is over is so much greater. dont believe me? y dont u look it up? there are support groups online for women who are mentally suffering after their abortion. The point is, u r pointing UR own life ahead of the CHILD. and that's just selfish.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

you're right, you're not stuck with an abortion for 18 years. u're stuck with the repercussions for the rest of your life. a woman's resolve is great, yes, but the pain many women feel after the abortion is over is so much greater. dont believe me? y dont u look it up? there are support groups online for women who are mentally suffering after their abortion. The point is, u r pointing UR own life ahead of the CHILD. and that's just selfish.

Not every woman feels regret. The most widely reported feeling after having an abortion is relief. That's always been something positive to me.

You are putting your personal considered moral judgments above other people's RIGHTS. That is just selfish, apathetic, and unethical.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

you're right, you're not stuck with an abortion for 18 years. u're stuck with the repercussions for the rest of your life. a woman's resolve is great, yes, but the pain many women feel after the abortion is over is so much greater. dont believe me? y dont u look it up? there are support groups online for women who are mentally suffering after their abortion. The point is, u r pointing UR own life ahead of the CHILD. and that's just selfish.

And those support groups are necessary because of a society that shames women for exercising their right to bodily autonomy, that makes them feel as though they must have an emotional connection to this little clump of cells that they didn't want and which is threatening their lives, both figuratively and literally, that they should hate themselves for choosing what was best for them and any future children they choose to have and for the fetus itself in many cases, as often women have abortions because they know their situation well enough to realize that, for whatever reason, they cannot properly care for a child at that point in time. In short, it's people like YOU who cause any lasting emotional trauma for women who choose to abort, not the act itself. What's really selfish is that you are putting the drive to continue the species at all costs above a person, not a clump of cells with no brain but a person, who wants to think about her health and happiness and not just be a living resource.

The sad thing is that a lot of these "support groups" are run by religious groups that oppose abortion, and they often tend to actually encourage feelings of loss and sadness. If you allow yourself to be psychologically vulnerable to people who believe that you're a murderer, of course you're going to feel guilty!

There is no single "normal" emotional response to abortion. Each individual woman reacts differently, based on her personal beliefs, experiences, and situation. Some feel relieved, some feel saddened. The situation that lead to abortion is usually a better indicator for post-abortion feelings than the abortion itself - for example, a woman who has an abortion because the pregnancy caused her relationship to fall apart and left her financially and emotionally unsupported is more likely to suffer episodes of depression after the abortion than a woman who simply decided, independent of any relationship strain or financial issues, that she didn't want to have a baby.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

you're right, you're not stuck with an abortion for 18 years. u're stuck with the repercussions for the rest of your life. a woman's resolve is great, yes, but the pain many women feel after the abortion is over is so much greater. dont believe me? y dont u look it up? there are support groups online for women who are mentally suffering after their abortion. The point is, u r pointing UR own life ahead of the CHILD. and that's just selfish.

Scientists have found no direct link between abortion and long term depression. The idea that all women spend the rest of their lives moping and wishing they'd had the baby is fiction created by pro-lifers. Most of the time, women who have severely bad reactions to an abortion are those who had mental health problems anyway.

Why can't I put my own life ahead of the FETUS? I'm a person too, why do MY thoughts and feelings not matter? The fetus doesn't even have those :\

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

you're right, you're not stuck with an abortion for 18 years. u're stuck with the repercussions for the rest of your life. a woman's resolve is great, yes, but the pain many women feel after the abortion is over is so much greater. dont believe me? y dont u look it up? there are support groups online for women who are mentally suffering after their abortion. The point is, u r pointing UR own life ahead of the CHILD. and that's just selfish.

What about the pain a woman feels when she CAN NOT care for a child and has to give it up for adoption? Doesn't she live with that for the rest of her life? Wouldn't that be MORE anguishing then aborting? Worrying every single day that the child you gave up may not be in a good home, may be suffering, may be neglected, may commit suicide because they have NO IDEA why their mother had to give them up?

I have NO REGRET for having 2 abortions. NONE what so ever. And if you can't tell, I'm not ashamed to talk about it, either, as most women are. THAT is why they need psychological help, because people like you make them fear their own actions, wheither they are justified or not.

I know it was the right thing for me to do, and I know that NO ONE can say it wasn't until they have been in my shoes. Have you been in the situation where you had to choose? And I don't mean a planed pregnancy where adoption and abortion wasn't even considered.. I mean a situation where you are forced to decide.

Do you know what would have caused problems for me? If I finished those pregnancies, and gave those children up for adoption. I know my own mind, I know that I dwell on events to the point they break me. I've had depression issues in the past, and attempted suicide, something else I'm not ashamed to admit, because I know I can help others with my experience. But I KNOW I am not strong enough to live the rest of my life with the idea that a child I had to give up for adoption was being abused, neglected, mistreated in any way. I couldn't live with myself at the thought that my child would never know why I couldn't take care of him or her. ANY mother knows the feeling of wanting the best for her child, and that does not stop at the ones they keep.

So here is a justification for abortion. The mother's life is at risk due to the mental anguish an adoption could cause. Does that fit into your plan?

Added: And could you please use actually words, and not "u" and Ur"? You sound like a 12 year old, I don't feel like having a talk about abortion with a 12 year old.

A male one, at that.

Someones gender shouldn't be used against his point of view and opinion in a debate. I don't care what the topic is about. That's going beyond a debate and just getting personal and rude.

Also, I've known quite a few people who have adopted newborns. Newborns always get adopted. There is a WAITING list for it. A good friend of mine that I worked with was on the waiting list for three years before she was finally, just recently, able to adopt. She told them she didn't care what race it was. The baby is black, and she still had to wait 3 years to be able to even have a chance. Newborns are always adopted.

Edit: Also, everyone seems to have forgotten that I'm pro-choice, which I did state with my first post. I think everyone has their own right to decide. I merely have my own personal views and opinions on how I would handle things and there's no use trying to change my mind on it.

I think in THIS debate.. men don't have any say in a woman's rights. They can have all the opinions they want, but until they can squeeze something the size of a watermelon out their pee hole, they had better have some respect for what a woman goes through.

Originally Posted by Kris

Not every woman feels regret. The most widely reported feeling after having an abortion is relief. That's always been something positive to me.

You are putting your personal considered moral judgments above other people's RIGHTS. That is just selfish, apathetic, and unethical.

actually, i am stating what was written by Dr. Miriam Grossman, a Campus Psychiatrist at Columbia University, researched and published in her book about what is more commonly felt. I would be more than happy to give you her name and the name of her book if you would like more proof you can either checkout her book "Unprotected" or checkout the website www.afterabortion.com

@MollyJean, look, i really dont know what to say to you. I am happy that you are at peace with what you felt you needed to do. u can attack my words and spellings all u want, i dont really care. im not trying to make u feel bad or any of that crap u're trying to stick to me. i gave my opinion and i am more than happy to stick with it. cuz basically it comes down to the fact that we dont see eye to eye on a number of different topics and we probably never will.

He never said he didn't respect you, or any woman, or their decisions. EVERYONE, no matter WHAT their gender, age, whatever, has a right to voice their opinion. Who are you to say they can't? This is a debate. It isn't the actual decision on if this becomes illegal or whatnot. He has every right to voice his opinion.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

actually, i am stating what was written by Dr. Miriam Grossman, a Campus Psychiatrist at Columbia University, researched and published in her book about what is more commonly felt. I would be more than happy to give you her name and the name of her book if you would like more proof you can either checkout her book "Unprotected" or checkout the website www.afterabortion.com

@MollyJean, look, i really dont know what to say to you. I am happy that you are at peace with what you felt you needed to do. u can attack my words and spellings all u want, i dont really care. im not trying to make u feel bad or any of that crap u're trying to stick to me. i gave my opinion and i am more than happy to stick with it. cuz basically it comes down to the fact that we dont see eye to eye on a number of different topics and we probably never will.

We don't have to agree. As long as you're not threatening my rights as a woman, we don't have a problem. That's the line you shouldn't cross. Have all the uneducated opinions you like.

But seriously, the letters in place of words are bugging me. It feels like you're not even TRYING to have an adult conversation. It's disrespectful. So I'm going to just end it here, until you can act like an adult.

Originally Posted by Shalandriel

He never said he didn't respect you, or any woman, or their decisions. EVERYONE, no matter WHAT their gender, age, whatever, has a right to voice their opinion. Who are you to say they can't? This is a debate. It isn't the actual decision on if this becomes illegal or whatnot. He has every right to voice his opinion.

Let's see, what did I say.. Oh yeah..

Men can have all the opinions they want, but until they can squeeze something the size of a watermelon out their pee hole, they had better have some respect for what a woman goes through.

I never said they can't have an opinion.. and I also never name any specific man, I mean all of them. :)

I think the best way to exercise the opinion of "pro-life" is to never have an abortion, not to try to tell other people how abortion is bad and adoption is good, which can possibly swing someone who is on the fence, which will inevitably ensure one more vote in favor of further restrictions on abortion.

If you change someone's opinion in the process of expressing your own, then you are influencing their actions. And action means much more than opinion by itself.

Well, he IS a male, so wouldn't that then apply to him? If men need to have respect for that, then one can assume that they don't currently have respect. Since he is a male, then, by what you say, he doesn't respect your decision. And that's your opinion. But expecting him to stay out of the debate because he is male isn't fair.

Also, you're calling his opinions uneducated, though he did link where he got his information. Which...to me, seems like pretty legit info.

Also, attacking his spelling and saying that he's not acting like and adult is rude and uncalled for. You decided to attack his grammar and his sex, saying that he has no say in it because he is male. If either of you wish to continue attacking him personally, or anyone, I will gladly report you for breaking the debate rules.

Also, I'm not pro-life. I am pro-choice, as I said before. I don't believe that dewey ever mentioned which he was actually.

Originally Posted by MollyJean

We don't have to agree. As long as you're not threatening my rights as a woman, we don't have a problem. That's the line you shouldn't cross. Have all the uneducated opinions you like.

But seriously, the letters in place of words are bugging me. It feels like you're not even TRYING to have an adult conversation. It's disrespectful. So I'm going to just end it here, until you can act like an adult.



Let's see, what did I say.. Oh yeah..

Men can have all the opinions they want, but until they can squeeze something the size of a watermelon out their pee hole, they had better have some respect for what a woman goes through.

I never said they can't have an opinion.. and I also never name any specific man, I mean all of them. :)

that would be because i am not attacking ur rights, i am merely disagreeing. and u're right, im not trying. u earned that 1 with ur first attack. and really? respect? what kind of respect do u have for the men who have to live with the decision that their girlfriends, wives, etc make? and please, tell me how u arrived at me being uneducated. just because i choose to shorten my words and use improper grammar doesnt mean im uneducated. i choose to do that. if i wanted to, i could speak formally. tell me something, can you even see a man's position on this? or does the fact that we dont have a vagina keep u from taking it seriously?

Originally Posted by Shalandriel

Well, he IS a male, so wouldn't that then apply to him? If men need to have respect for that, then one can assume that they don't currently have respect. Since he is a male, then, by what you say, he doesn't respect your decision. And that's your opinion. But expecting him to stay out of the debate because he is male isn't fair.

I said he can have an opinion, and I never once said he should stay out of the debate because he is male. Maybe you should try reading what I'm saying and stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by Shalandriel

Also, you're calling his opinions uneducated, though he did link where he got his information. Which...to me, seems like pretty legit info.

Yes, I am, because he's basing it on a book he might or might not have read, that has a biased opinion about the subject. I would do the same for anyone who went by another person's words without bothering to do any real research for themselves. That INCLUDES people who go by MY opinion without trying to do any research.

Originally Posted by Shalandriel

Also, attacking his spelling and saying that he's not acting like and adult is rude and uncalled for. You decided to attack his grammar and his sex, saying that he has no say in it because he is male. If either of you wish to continue attacking him personally, or anyone, I will gladly report you for breaking the debate rules.

I never attacked his grammar, I attacked his use of letters for words, which I find childish and rude when having a conversation about, of all things, abortion, with adults who are showing him enough respect to use actual words. If he can't spell, the very well, I'll give him a pass, but if he's just being lazy, why should I respect him? He's not respecting me by acting childish.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

that would be because i am not attacking ur rights, i am merely disagreeing.

And I've already said, as long as you don't touch my rights as a woman, you can have ALL the opinions you want, Have them.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

and really? respect? what kind of respect do u have for the men who have to live with the decision that their girlfriends, wives, etc make?

Well I could go into the subject of men who beat their wives/girlfriends/ect for having abortions, but I think I'll not.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

and please, tell me how u arrived at me being uneducated.

I never called you uneducated, now did I? I said you have an uneducated opinion. The rest of your education wasn't involved in that statement what so ever.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

just because i choose to shorten my words and use improper grammar doesnt mean im uneducated. i choose to do that. if i wanted to, i could speak formally.

You choose to be lazy with your words and expect me to see it as anything other then you being lazy with your words? I'm sorry but this is a totally mote argument.

Originally Posted by deweyduquesne

tell me something, can you even see a man's position on this? or does the fact that we dont have a vagina keep u from taking it seriously?

For the LAST time.. have all the opinions you want. You try to tell me I don't have a RIGHT to abortion, we'll have a problem, but until then, you say whatever you feel is right.

If you don't like MY opinions on the matter, feel free to ignore them. :)

I wasn't just addressing you, I was addressing both you and Keyori.

The link he gave is about someone who did actual research on the subject. I don't see how that's not good enough, seeing as someone has to do the research at some point. Everyone has to go by someone else words at some point when providing information and links, so I honestly don't know what you're getting at there.

And again. Attacking him for his grammar, or whatever you want to call it, is rude. If you don't want to talk to someone who you don't think is showing respect because of the way he is spelling, then fine. Ignore him. But you were the one who choose to attack him, thus breaking the debate rules.

Also, you are saying "And I've already said, as long as you don't touch my rights as a woman, you can have ALL the opinions you want, Have them." This debate is ABOUT that right to have an abortion. So he can say whatever he WANTS about that right. If you don't want to listen to people who think women shouldn't have that right, this is not the debate for you.

Originally Posted by Shalandriel

I wasn't just addressing you, I was addressing both you and Keyori.

The link he gave is about someone who did actual research on the subject. I don't see how that's not good enough, seeing as someone has to do the research at some point. Everyone has to go by someone else words at some point when providing information and links, so I honestly don't know what you're getting at there.

And again. Attacking him for his grammar, or whatever you want to call it, is rude. If you don't want to talk to someone who you don't think is showing respect because of the way he is spelling, then fine. Ignore him. But you were the one who choose to attack him, thus breaking the debate rules.

Also, you are saying "And I've already said, as long as you don't touch my rights as a woman, you can have ALL the opinions you want, Have them." This debate is ABOUT that right to have an abortion. So he can say whatever he WANTS about that right. If you don't want to listen to people who think women shouldn't have that right, this is not the debate for you.

This thread is called "Abortion and your views on it" Not "Abortion, should it be illigal" And there is a thread for that somewhere, so if you want to talk about making it illegal, I suggest you go there, not here, to an opinion thread.

And I already said I was done with him because of the spelling, you're the one dragging it back up.

"So there's a lot of different opinions concerning abortion, some people think it should be illegal, others think it's fine as long as you have a good reason.
I'd like to hear your views on abortion."

First line in the thread. Enough said. Good day.

Originally Posted by Shalandriel

"So there's a lot of different opinions concerning abortion, some people think it should be illegal, others think it's fine as long as you have a good reason.
I'd like to hear your views on abortion."

First line in the thread. Enough said. Good day.

Oh, you're done then? Good, can we move on now? Thank you.

Really, why are you being so rude? This is a debate thread, not a "let's bash anyone and everyone who doesnt agree with me" thread. You talk about being an adult, so why don't you debate like one? Give the facts and support them. Don't resort to childish methods like implying that spelling is an indicator of not taking the subject seriously. And if you can't, be adult enough to remove yourself from the debate.

Oh, so we're not done? *sigh* Alright, I'll come back when someone feels like discussing the topic in question.

Let's keep this civil, shall we?
It's natural for an abortion debate to get heated, but everyone has to try their best not to let comments hurt them personally. Even if you disagree, it is never alright to point fingers.

lol i dont even know what to say right now

Then perhaps it's best to walk away from this thread for a while. :yes: