Thread Tools

Mirith
(っ◕‿◕)&...
1921.01
Send a message via MSN to Mirith
Mirith is offline
 
#1
Old 05-07-2008, 01:37 AM

Can someone help me understand the message in this poem?
Quote:
On my first son, by Ben Jonson.

Farewell, thou child of my right hand, and joy;
My sin was too much hope of thee, lov'd boy.
Seven years thou wert lent to me, and I thee pay.
Exacted by the fate, on the just day.
Oh, could I lose all father now! For why
Will man lament the state he should envy?
To have so soon 'scaped world's and flesh's rage,
And, if no other misery, yet age?
Rest in soft peace, and asked, say here doth lie
Ben Jonson his best piece of poetry;
For whose sake, henceforth, all his vows be such,
As what he loves may never like too much.
Help? D ; I have to write a paper on it. o___o

Last edited by Rusalka; 05-07-2008 at 03:06 AM..

Julia Caesar
Dead Account Holder
871.36
Julia Caesar is offline
 
#2
Old 05-07-2008, 01:44 AM

I'm not sure. Possibly and ill son who he hoped would live to much, but obviously this would not happen.

Maybe his son is lucky to be out of this world and his body.

Niamh
⊙ω⊙
137.96
Niamh is offline
 
#3
Old 05-07-2008, 04:27 AM

In what way do you need help with the poem? Understanding the words of the poem itself, in addition to the message?

It would also be helpful to know of any guidance your teacher gave you/ what grade you're in. That way, we'll have a better scope of what is expected out of the assignment.

As for the poem itself: eesh, this is a difficult one!

Quote:
On my first son, by Ben Jonson.

1 Farewell, thou child of my right hand, and joy;
2 My sin was too much hope of thee, lov'd boy.
3 Seven years thou wert lent to me, and I thee pay.
4 Exacted by the fate, on the just day.
5 Oh, could I lose all father now! For why
6 Will man lament the state he should envy?
7 To have so soon 'scaped world's and flesh's rage,
8 And, if no other misery, yet age?
9 Rest in soft peace, and asked, say here doth lie
10 Ben Jonson his best piece of poetry;
11 For whose sake, henceforth, all his vows be such,
12 As what he loves may never like too much.
If a translation is what you need, here's what I see from the poem:

1-- Basically, a farewell to his son: if "child of my right hand" has any extra meaning, I don't know of it. This line seems straightforward.
2 &3-- "too much hope of thee" seems to mean that he placed all of his hope in his son, and "I thee pay" connotes the death of Johnson's son: he 'paid' his son as a price to the fates, possibly for the sin of loving him too much? I'm not sure how that would come to be. Possibly this could reference that, in the 1600s especially, an emphasis was put on loving God above all else. There's a story in the bible involving a father sacrificing his son for the love of God-- the father doesn't actually do so, but the implication of God-love above all is there.
5-- There could be two meanings to this line: either the poet wishes to lose the weight of his fatherhood, or possibly he wishes to lose the weight of a more spiritual fatherhood. Either way, his grief makes him with to give up an important element of his life.
6-- Johnson here asks why he should regret his son's fate, when death is a fate that many would envy.
7-- Johsnon notes that his son will never have to deal with the harsh aspects of the world: hate, rage...
8-- To die means to no longer have to age, another benefit that possibly Johnson shouldn't resent in the pragmatic sense.
9-- This is the eulogy part of the poem, where Johnson bids his son to rest in peace.
10-- This is a double entendre: Johnson does literally offer up a poem to his son-- however, Johnson is also calling his son the "best" of his poetry. This could connect back to "son of my right hand."
11-- He's making a promise for the sake of his son:
12-- To never like too much the things that he loves-- presumably, the author promises this because he feels that his adoration for his son, and therefore the desire to keep him despite what was at the time assumed to be a spiritually free afterlife, is selfish. He can "love" but not "like" so much that he becomes selfish.


It's important to note the history of the author and poem: this poem was actually written for Johnson's son, who died in the plague. Johnson was a contemporary of Shakespeare who lived in the late 1500s and early 1600s, and he had several children die.

As for how to specifically write the paper: if you're unsure about what to write, the best strategy would be to develop an opinion on the poem, and then support the opinion with evidence by way of the poetic devices used.

If you have to write about the message of the poem (the message would be your thesis), you could focus on either the fact that the son was the best piece of poetry, or on the idea of loving vs. liking too much. In the latter, the idea of "loving" is superior to that of "liking," because loving is portrayed as less selfish in the poem.

If you can write on whatever you like about the poem, you may want to argue about whether or not the style is effective. Is it effective in making the reader empathize with the father? With the son? Is it effective in upholding love as greater than simple liking, and necessarily separate? Which types of poetic device have the greatest emotional impact?...

... I'm not really sure what the specific constraints of your assignment are.

Good luck! I hope that helped some? I'm terribly sorry if it didn't! I'll be on tonight until about 12a.m. PST, and will probably be on tomorrow after 6p.m. PST. Feel free to PM me if you think I can offer any assistance!

LemonTree
⊙ω⊙
170.20
LemonTree is offline
 
#4
Old 05-07-2008, 08:02 AM

Quote:
On my first son, by Ben Jonson.

1. Farewell, thou child of my right hand, and joy;
2. My sin was too much hope of thee, lov'd boy.
3. Seven years thou wert lent to me, and I thee pay.
4. Exacted by the fate, on the just day.
5. Oh, could I lose all father now! For why
6. Will man lament the state he should envy?
7. To have so soon 'scaped world's and flesh's rage,
8. And, if no other misery, yet age?
9. Rest in soft peace, and asked, say here doth lie
10. Ben Jonson his best piece of poetry;
11. For whose sake, henceforth, all his vows be such,
12. As what he loves may never like too much.
I had to do a presentation on elegies a few weeks back for my Early Modern English Poetry course and chose this poem, got passing grade too. I think I still remember some of the notes.

Niamh is right in her explanation of the poem. I'll just add a bit more from my own notes so maybe that will help you.

1. "Child of my right hand" indeed has an extra meaning. It refers to the literal meaning of his son's name: Benjamin.

2. Niamh was right in her assumption that Jonson her claims that his sin is to have loved his son too much. This is based on the classic tradition of causing the ire of the gods by being too happy/lucky/beautiful. He was punished for loving his son so much and thus being so happy by having that source of happiness taken from him.

3+4. The child died on it's seventh birthday, as is refered to by "on the just day."

10. Ben Jonson thought of being a poet as being a father and the poetry as his children. But his best piece of poetry is buried here, dead and he will never be able to top it, to create a better poem. This can also, as a classmate of mine pointed out, be taken as an ironic comment on poetry: that it is no use and is dead.

11+12. Another referral back to the idea of being punished by the gods for being too happy/loving his son too much and also a warning tone to others.

Further more, the poem as a whole is more focused on the personal grief of the poetic speaker rather than the child's life.

Last edited by LemonTree; 05-07-2008 at 09:45 PM..

 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

 
Forum Jump

no new posts