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BelleMorte
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#1
Old 01-30-2008, 08:43 AM


Is it wrong to do something not very realistic if it makes you happy? What if it's "stupid" to other people? When does criticism matter, when should you listen and change and how much should you change?

I hear a lot of critiques and compliments in all different forums as well as real life. Grades matter, but I'm not talking about grades or money-related. I mean obviously, if the person commissioning you wants it a certain way, you suck it up and do that. I'm talking about just a comment, a critique, directly to the artist. Does it matter? I mean, should it influence how you do something? When exactly should critiques change the way you do something, and when does changing mean you're losing what you originally went after? Is it bad to change to try to please the most people? Is that selling yourself out?

I'm really often torn between wanting to please and feeling like I've betrayed something I worked on...sometimes I dun agree with the critique, but I follow it anyhow and then when it turns out not very good, I feel sorry. I feel guilty to the project I butchered..I actually feel kind of bad for the thing I make. ._.'

Anyone else ever feel like this? How do you take criticism? Should I still consider criticism seriously if it is delivered somewhat maliciously?

Should you create what you want, or listen to criticism and change?

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#2
Old 01-30-2008, 08:47 AM

It depends on the sort of critique, honestly-- when someone makes a comment on an anatomy or perspective mistake that I made, I actually feel that it makes the piece look much better than it originally did. But when someone comments on an aspect of my style, I can definitely relate to what you said. People sometimes tell me that I could do certain things to make my art more "appealing" (i.e. draw in a strict manga style), but not only is it something I do poorly, it's not something that I enjoy doing, and making my pictures look more like a manga artists' makes me feel like I've sold out, even if those pictures are more popular.
[edit because i ignored the question at the end. silly me.]
In short, I think it's okay to listen to criticism that will ultimately help you grow as an artist. Even if you don't, for example, fix a really skewed bit of anatomy, it's always helpful to remember things like that for the next picture you draw. But I think that criticism on style and other things that are largely matters of personal preference can and should be ignored, because it's just one person being picky.

Tal Blaiser
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#3
Old 01-30-2008, 11:56 AM

Depending on the situation... there are differences between criticism, voice of opinion[comments], mistake nit picking spectator and of course downright flaming[insult]. You must learn to distinguish them.

If a person would give critical analysis and instruction for you to build up/develop your style in art, that is what I called "criticism" and that person is a true critic. but there are people who meddle with your style, then it's just people who are voicing out their opinion[point of view] and those kind of audience will push you to change your style just to suite their tastes... also there are those who are bitter/hard people who can't see anything but mistakes from other artists hard works, they are just "pain in the @$$" for us artists.

Finally there are some jack@$$ who won't even look at your art and simply call it worthless trash[flaming]

It's up to you when to listen to certain criticism, cause even critics can go wrong or make mistakes. if you think their advice can help you improve... then accept it, if not? then let it go and be thankful for their time :D

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#4
Old 01-30-2008, 11:57 AM

I feel frustrated when people dont understand my art sigh this means when they start saying "you could have given it a mouth" but I didnt give it a mouth on purspose cause I wanted the character to look serious and instead I made that area with a big shadow or something.
Its like sad to have to explain art but oh well finally I end up drawing that thing for the customer but...feel bad
I understand you guys,

BelleMorte
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#5
Old 01-30-2008, 11:10 PM

Yeah, I guess on anatomy and physiology, maybe it is something if I'm trying to do something realistic, but the thing is I don't do realism, I do sort of more abstract things. I work with many different media, and experiment, and find something I really love.

For example, I do sort of eggshell type art and I do little clay figurines. It is not that I can't make realistic clay figures, but that I'm not so very interested in it. I like to do happy, fantasy-like creations, cutesy if you will. Why? Because to me, it's something to escape from the dull drab of reality, and the harsh lines, the angles. I like the more blobby look of clay, like gumbi, etc. So for that when I get criticism, I don't really know what to make of it. I mean some people tell me to make it more 'realistic' and detailed...but 1) On the scale I'm doing the figurines, which is about the size of your pinky, it's very difficult to add a ton of detail. If I do do detail, which ones do I keep detailwise, and what do I not do detailwise? 2) It ruins the carefree childish fairy feeling kind of.

I have done some larger pieces in a ton of detail...but that was for an entirely different audience.

I'm asking this because I'm currently teaching a weekend crafts class for kids ages 6-12, and am getting somewhat weird input from friends and the parents of the students, as well as the students themselves. I mean, the kids seem happy, but the parents seem to expect me to turn them into sculptors..but I myself am not a sculptor-I could try to be, but it isn't something I enjoy? I dunno. It's weird. Even if I do change the lessons somewhat, should I change my own style a bit? Is it somewhat of foreshadowing as to what people want of me??

That and also when I do my own stuff, people give me input, some of which I kept or attempted but then didn't like cause it turned out funky..But sometimes it's okay-ish...

But I really don't wanna lose "originality" by making everything exactly realistic--cause then people give me this, "You're not creative, you're just replicating" thing... x_o'

I just dunno where the middle is on this. And it's driving me nuts trying to figure out when to listen to advice vs. not and sometimes when I don't I regret it, and a lot of times when I do listen, I regret it too. I'm like screwed either way!

BelleMorte
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#6
Old 01-30-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tal Blaiser
Depending on the situation... there are differences between criticism, voice of opinion[comments], mistake nit picking spectator and of course downright flaming[insult]. You must learn to distinguish them.

If a person would give critical analysis and instruction for you to build up/develop your style in art, that is what I called "criticism" and that person is a true critic. but there are people who meddle with your style, then it's just people who are voicing out their opinion[point of view] and those kind of audience will push you to change your style just to suite their tastes... also there are those who are bitter/hard people who can't see anything but mistakes from other artists hard works, they are just "pain in the @$$" for us artists.

Finally there are some jack@$$ who won't even look at your art and simply call it worthless trash[flaming]

It's up to you when to listen to certain criticism, cause even critics can go wrong or make mistakes. if you think their advice can help you improve... then accept it, if not? then let it go and be thankful for their time :D

I get a lot of people who think what I do is junk because it is more of a playdough like clay rather than the kind you bake. I don't do bakingish type cause well, quite frankly, I don't have the proper equipment. o.O'

I'm not sure how to tell if someone's being serious about what they criticize, and if they know or understand the media well enough to give criticism...but also I don't know if their knowledge of the media matters much?

I mean, yes it does take a chef to cook, but it doesn't take a chef to tell you if something tastes good or not, right? Is it the same with art? But at times I feel like people don't understand the media well when they begin to ask for a crazy amount of details, or when they suggest something really weird to do within an eggshell.

I kinda can tell the people that flame vs. the non-flamers, but I'm not sure which of the non-flaming opinions and suggestions are good ones.

That and I'm kinda afraid I'll lose the way I do things if I do things the way everyone else wants me to, and in the end sometimes what people ask me to do is different from what I thought they wanted me to do--their ideas in their head about how they want me to try something doesn't always come across the same when I'm trying to figure out what they want. x.x' So sometimes in the end I don't make anyone happy.

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#7
Old 01-31-2008, 10:26 PM

Critique/criticism is a strange thing. Everyone has different tastes, so of course it's impossible to please everyone, but I think when considering critique it's easier if you know the person giving you feedback; maybe not intimately, but enough to know their likes and dislikes. I do more critique with my writing than my artwork (I draw for fun, but I write more seriously, I guess) and there's a person in my group who doesn't deal well with fantasy or any kind of speculative fiction and gets hung up on the weirdest details. On the flipside, however, he's a genius when it comes to grammar and word choice and always catches the little nitpicky things that slip through my fingers. So I think that everyone probably has something to contribute to you, but you have to pick and choose what you listen to. If someone doesn't like your style, there's not much you can do about that, but I guess you just have to keep an open mind and listen to what people have to say, and consider it. If it's not right for you, that's always okay. :3

Quote:
I mean, yes it does take a chef to cook, but it doesn't take a chef to tell you if something tastes good or not, right? Is it the same with art?
I think this is a good point, but I also think that along the lines of this metaphor, you might still need a food expert (or at least someone who knows what they're talking about or is good at describing things) to be able to tell you WHY they don't like something. Telling someone their work "sucks" isn't helpful at all, and frankly if someone says so, what do you get by listening to that? A dose of lowered self-esteem maybe and not much else. So honestly I think it's okay not to listen to that. If there is NOTHING for you to learn from or consider from a criticism... then why bother? Now if someone says "It's cute, but the right arm is a bit short, you might try elongating it a bit" or something along those lines, then it's much more helpful. ^^

I think people who insult a medium without considering the finished work are just being elitist--it's not the medium, it's what you do with it, right? And for the record I think the sculpture you posted is lovely and adorable.

It's a difficult balance, listening to critique and being true to yourself. It's hard to find an audience for artistic stuff too, and everyone's a critic... but I think the most important thing is to never give up. Or so I keep telling myself.

That was rambly, but I hope it made sense. XD

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#8
Old 01-31-2008, 11:29 PM

I think let things be however they are, however it makes you happy. Unless your well being and food and housing rely on it, if you're just doing art for art's sake, let it be something you enjoy. Not something you're doing to please others.

Offer commissions, art trades, but don't worry if not everyone is trying to trade all at once. You want your art to go to someone who appreciates the media anyhow. You should not be trying to cater your art towards a group that already dislikes the media you work with right off the top. They would not fully understand nor appreciate the amount of time, effort, or skill you've put into the project.

If you are hired to do something, make sure you understand and can complete what your employer asks. However, if it's just casual for your own free time, do what you want.


You know what it's called when you're doing things you dislike without compensation of any sort and taking verbal abuse for it, while helping your abusers? Servitude.

Tal Blaiser
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#9
Old 02-01-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BelleMorte

I get a lot of people who think what I do is junk because it is more of a playdough like clay rather than the kind you bake. I don't do bakingish type cause well, quite frankly, I don't have the proper equipment. o.O'

I'm not sure how to tell if someone's being serious about what they criticize, and if they know or understand the media well enough to give criticism...but also I don't know if their knowledge of the media matters much?

I mean, yes it does take a chef to cook, but it doesn't take a chef to tell you if something tastes good or not, right? Is it the same with art? But at times I feel like people don't understand the media well when they begin to ask for a crazy amount of details, or when they suggest something really weird to do within an eggshell.

I kinda can tell the people that flame vs. the non-flamers, but I'm not sure which of the non-flaming opinions and suggestions are good ones.

That and I'm kinda afraid I'll lose the way I do things if I do things the way everyone else wants me to, and in the end sometimes what people ask me to do is different from what I thought they wanted me to do--their ideas in their head about how they want me to try something doesn't always come across the same when I'm trying to figure out what they want. x.x' So sometimes in the end I don't make anyone happy.
Heee, why would people spend time looking on a picture and critically analyze it? looking for mistakes? maybe, but then they are what you call the "Flamers" or "worthless critics" You see, every problem has a solution, if those critics cannot come up with any solution other than pointing out your mistakes, maybe because they might not know how to help you improve or are just plain selfish... in any case they are not worth listening to. now you know.

If someone did offer a solution, don't hesitate to try it *nod* and if it works, then good for you, if not, then leave it be. you'll never know until you try :D

Also, let me ask you this:

- Are you the kind of artist who would cater the demands of other people?[Trendy]

- Or are you the type of artist who would create art for yourself alone and share it with the world?

Cause if you are the first choice, then listen to what others will have to tell you about your works, you can grab a lot of fans and please the majority. On the second choice, be prepared to accept the facts that only few will like/love your works... as someone said earlier "You cannot please everyone"


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#10
Old 02-01-2008, 07:43 PM

Usually, i will take others criticism and twist it around a little bit.
But if you make something that you're proud of yourself, screw what other people say! Whats most important is if you're happy with it!

I have some really weird, unusual paintings or drawings that i just adore, but no one else gets, it doesn't mean it'll make me stop liking it or make me throw it away!
Everyone has their own tastes :3

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#11
Old 02-03-2008, 05:18 AM

If you are asking for advice/constructive criticism you should be open minded but if you make any changes they should be ones that you feel would help. Taking in everything everyone says is not always helpful.

For example one persons says this. 'Great job, but you need to fix the right hand the finger looks funny. Perhaps add something for the character to hold.'

Another says this. 'You should scrap the whole picture and start over. The style is horrible and you need to improve all the anatomy and redo all of it.'

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#12
Old 02-03-2008, 11:57 AM

I feel criques should always take a full open mind, but also stick with what you want to see too. Try both and see what you like best. There are times i think I am stubborn,and should let loose,then there are times I wish I didn't listen to that person caused they messed up my art.

scrapping over is a pain, and I would say don't do it, start with a similar subject, but slightly different and try that instead.

Also my least favorite crique was when I was drawing a good friend of mine, it came out looking a bit too much like a girl for my taste. So I asked my professor for art about it, and he said awesome picture what would you like to know. And i said it is suppose to be a guy, but looks like a girl, what can i do to fix this. He said take a different look and do a picture where he looks more guy like.I did a WTF moment cause I didn't want to start a new piece, I liked this piece, and just wanted to know what could be changed. So it wasn't helpful at all. In the end i was still proud of the piece.

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#13
Old 02-03-2008, 04:37 PM

I'm my own worst critic.
I am so hard on my artwork, that if it's the best thing I've ever drawn, within a few hours to a few days, I can see the imperfections.

I don't much care for criticism, because I can already see the anatomy problems and the CGing problems, and the composition problems. (Really, I'm not trying to be arrogant. I know I have art problems. It is just one of the many things I don't understand.)

What I mostly need help with is:
  • Which pose is better for this character?
    What should I draw next?
    What should this character's name be?
    Does her hair look right?
    Does this outfit match this person's personality?
    Should I use pencil or ink?
    Does this pic look better this way, or that way?
    I'm lost! T_T
    Et cetera.

I just do my own thing, to please myself. Occasionally I try to please others. For example... when I'm drawing something for a friend, when I feel like being popular and draw fanart, when I'm doing an experimental CG style or character, or I'm doing something for a commissioner.
So, about half the time that is the case. Half or less.

It doesn't matter to me, unless I put 'advanced critique' under the art post.

Wonderfully blunt. <3

I prefer the mixture of what was said in the first post, but I also like... diehard fans who like my style, regardless of the fact it's not popular and I don't cater much.

I do like creating wallpapers tho. <3 hawtness.

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#14
Old 02-03-2008, 10:14 PM

I only listen to criticism when the critic is helping me draw what I WANT TO DRAW.
If they're trying to change my work completely, then screw them. But if it's a minor change that actually HELPS, then i will always listen.

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#15
Old 02-03-2008, 11:46 PM

Critisicm has a time and a place. If I sat here and doodled some kind of deformed cat dog hybrid thingy with feathery wings just because I fealt like doodling obviously it's a doodle and criticism is not really appropriate.

If I drew an anime girl and someone told me it was too cartoony, the eyes were too big and such it would be irrelevant as I'm not trying to create a realistic piece.

Criticism is good if it pertains to what you're trying to achieve.

Also when it's put in a bad way it's probably not crit, but someone having a dig so ignore it.

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#16
Old 02-07-2008, 11:34 PM

I think you should thoroughly understand the basics before you try to do something advanced though, that I agree on..If you can draw something the way you see it, and draw things you cannot see but draw them well, then no, I would not criticize you too negatively at all if you did some deformed structure...because then I would know it was intentionally made deformed and not because you are incapable of making something to the "normal" proportions.

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#17
Old 02-14-2008, 10:52 PM

Criticism is really important to *any* artist, but where it's coming from really needs to be taken into account. I'm sure we all have our trusted individuals we go to who are willing to tell the brutal and honest truth, to help us make whatever we are working on that much better.

Not to be rude, but generally people don't know what they are talking about. If the criticism compromises your whole style, then it's something that really isn't that helpful. I remember showing .some friends online a. couple of sketches I drew in a class one day, and one of them decided he was going to show me how to draw anime *correctly* (i.e. the most generic way possible) I wasn't entirely going for anime, other than the eyes were big, but I was quite pleased with the stylistic touches I had on my piece, I didn't want it to look like it would have come out of generic anime#39824534.

Criticism should help you better a product (unless it's just a complete mess to begin with, but that happens to everyone sometimes) It should come from a place of knowledge and not so much of opinion. I wouldn't listen to jow blow over an artist friend. I personally show my stuff to a range of people, take note of all of the criticism recieved and then pick and choose which pieces I feel help me the most in making the product better.

Opinions are a dime a dozen, and not entirely worth that dime to begin with. My artist friends come to me because they know that I will give them good advice, and I won't pull any punches to feed their ego. I know when I want criticism, I want to know everything they see wrong with the product, so I give that courtesy to the people who come to me for help. But really, you don't have to take every bit of criticism to heart, that would kill any artistic motivations I get.

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#18
Old 02-15-2008, 01:34 AM

Criticism is important because it helps artists see past their own egos. However, artists need to be a be a good judge of what criticism they should take to heart and which they should just brush off.
"My 4-year old sister could draw a better arm than that. Fix it." is worthless criticism.
"That arm looks a bit stiff. You should give it a bit more curve." is helpful criticism (some of the time).

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#19
Old 02-15-2008, 04:39 PM

oh course critisim is important ^^

People improve faster with it as they can have their mistakes pointed out rather than noticing them 6 months down the track xD; well it works like that for me anyway

as long as a person giving some C+C is nice and friendly about it, its all good :)

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#20
Old 02-16-2008, 06:00 AM

you have to learn when critique is right and wrong, being as objective as you can about your own work. it's difficult to find that mindset, but it is possible.

people say a lot of things, but you can't listen to them all. personally, when i receive criticism i only listen when i agree with it or it came from someone i believe knows what they're saying. a lot of people just don't get it and aren't fit to criticize anything because they don't really know what to look for when criticizing art. they can say things like "why is her hair pink - it should be brown bc no one has pink hair" or "her face looks weird, it should be with bigger eyes like anime" and etc. dumb things. you have to be able to know the difference but be open enough to learn from those who know a lot more than you do.

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#21
Old 03-14-2008, 12:43 AM

it dose NOT matter! If you listen to what everyone else says than you won't fallow what your eye is telling you, and you won't wind up with your own style. The people you see that are extremely popular have all gone there own way and honed there own styles. For example 'CLAMP' or even, I don't know 'Picasso'.

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#22
Old 03-14-2008, 12:52 AM

Criticism, to me, is only good when it is constructive. Criticism directed to harm or be malicious does no good and discourages art. Every artist is going to get criticism of some kind.

Rose Teh Pixie Fairy
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#23
Old 03-14-2008, 01:06 AM

I think People who critisize you about your art is good well if its a mean critsizing than thats bad because that means there flaming you and i think flaming is against the menesha rules.Besides who would want to look at you art and look for mistakes on them and say hey look you made a mistake
that be pretty lame and mean i mean really. Don't worry as long as they don't flame you your fine :D

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#24
Old 03-14-2008, 01:40 AM

Critique is my friend and secret lover.

Even if someone can't say exactly how to fix a problem, I think it helps to get their point of view on what is wrong... if I can see it, I can fix it myself. But after you've been looking at a work for awhile you kinda become blind to the weird spots, you've temporarily misplaced your definition of normalcy in the human form, your sense of symmetry, and your soda.

At least, that's what happens to me when I draw.

Critique helps me see past that.
But it still hasn't found my soda.

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#25
Old 03-15-2008, 04:43 PM

I agree with lazykat I know when I've been drawing or coloring a picture I will eventually stair at it so long that I loose all perspective on what is good or bad about it. I need a little help so I ask my sister (she also draws) so I trust her opinion. but there is a difference between asking for an apioion and someone just handing it out.

 


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