A lot of people have been coming to me lately for writing help/advice and have been happy with what help/advice was given. So I think it's safe to say that I wanted to make this thread.
Need help with naming your characters?
Need someone to look over something you've written?
Need help wording a sentence better?
Need help with, well, whatever? I'm here to help you out.
If anyone has a Tumblr and wants to use that instead, I have a writing advice blog that's been up that goes by the name writingadvice101.
Here's Some Help
Starting Off a StoryX
I've taken about two years of Creative Writing by now and one thing we've always paid close attention to was the different ways to start out your story. And while there are many ways, here's some ways:
Starting your story off with dialogue. If written just right, you can get the reader instantly curious of how this conversation started and where it will go. That will leave you the duty to let them know as the dialogue persists. (i.e. "Say that to my face again, I dare you," Kyla growled with fiery eyes, her face inches from his. He shouldn't have said that. It was so incredibly stupid of him to say that.)
Staring your story off mid-scene. It could easily raise the question in the reader of what exactly happened, leaving you with the job to later explain. (i.e. She grunted as her horse made the jump. She hadn't prepared for that. And the ache that came with the sudden jolt had sent her face cringing in discomfort.)
Starting your story off in an introduction-esq style. Some readers what to know about the main character first-hand. It's sometimes a good thing to start off with detail about your character or something that symbolizes your character. (i.e. Carry wasn't always this lazy. But today was the day to be, well, lazy. She had her sandy blonde hair tied loosely up in a messy bun, a rather over-sized shirt she had just recently found hidden away in her closet, and her old grey shorts left over from dance a few years ago.)
Don't Be Boring: "He/She Said"X
One of many annoying things I’ve noticed people write when I was in Creative Writing was a lot of “he/she said”.
Stop.
Just...stop.
It’s acceptable to use that when you’re letting the reader know who had just said that line of dialogue whether it’s to start off a conversation, or help the reader understand who’s talking in a long, drawn out conversation…but don’t use it time after time after time.
So here’s some helpful words to use instead (in no particular order of course).
grumbled
mumbled
yelled
pointed out
advised
whispered
murmured
cried
started
stressed
proposed
promised
implied
replied
answered
offered
shouted
nagged
challenged
negated
snapped
added
objected
confessed
proclaimed
claimed
chided
noted
quipped
agreed
Example: Before: “Well that was pointless,” Carole said. After: “Well that was pointless,” Carole grumbled.
Another way to make “he/she said” more interesting is to add on descriptions after ‘said’. Is the character angry? Sad? Upset about something? Being sarcastic? Being mean? Explain to the reader. Give them a taste of how the character is saying what they’re saying.
Example: Before: “This is terrible,” Anthony said. After: “This is terrible,” Anthony said with a grimace.
EDIT 5/1/13 Now I'm not saying to use a descriptive verb after every line of dialogue. It just needs to be switched up a little. Create some difference, don't be afraid to get descriptive with your dialogue every now and then.
Last edited by Shiverpass; 05-01-2013 at 04:03 AM..
I find this kind of interesting. I've taken three or so years of writing classes and workshops and that he/she said section you have is considered one of the big writing no, no's by most teachers. I've been taught that it's often best to use 'said' because it will blend into the text and made the dialogue natural. Using too many descriptive verbs sticks out even more than saying only 'said' all the time and it can become a crutch. Rather, it's best to write the dialogue in such a way that it doesn't need 'he proclaimed' after it. It should sound like a proclamation. And especially if you can, just not using any dialogue tags at all. This would fall into the category of 'show don't tell'. All that extra after the dialogue is telling the reader how you should read that.
That being said, I use other words than said sometimes. it can be useful especially with certain stories, it will work better. I just find it really interesting that you said that because I haven't seen that kind of advice in a really long time.
I'm sorry, I know this was a thread asking for advice. I saw this and really had to post though.
I find this kind of interesting. I've taken three or so years of writing classes and workshops and that he/she said section you have is considered one of the big writing no, no's by most teachers. I've been taught that it's often best to use 'said' because it will blend into the text and made the dialogue natural. Using too many descriptive verbs sticks out even more than saying only 'said' all the time and it can become a crutch. Rather, it's best to write the dialogue in such a way that it doesn't need 'he proclaimed' after it. It should sound like a proclamation. And especially if you can, just not using any dialogue tags at all. This would fall into the category of 'show don't tell'. All that extra after the dialogue is telling the reader how you should read that.
That being said, I use other words than said sometimes. it can be useful especially with certain stories, it will work better. I just find it really interesting that you said that because I haven't seen that kind of advice in a really long time.
I'm sorry, I know this was a thread asking for advice. I saw this and really had to post though.
Haha no, that's quite alright! I agree with your part on what you've been taught about too many descriptive verbs. I guess what I was trying to come across was that a lot of people use "said" too many times in conversations. Like:
"No," Jamie said.
"It was just a suggestion," Kyle said.
"It's fine," Jamie said. "Just don't say that to Eliza."
ah. I understand that part. It's true that any phrase said too often really drags a story down. It's good advice to try to find another way to say it, but it's also good advice to find a way to avoid saying it altogether. Because it sounds to me like you're trying to say it should be like:
Omg," she exclaimed with excitement.
"Really" he grumbled. "I'm not lying."
"But you are!" she yelped.
I never was brought into writing classes, so I never thought of saying "said" before.
When I was younger, I often created stories and I used said constantly to no end. A young and first starting writer I didn't know about the saids.
It wasn't until now (after I've read more books and taken English Literature and Composition) that I improved on my adjectives and descriptions of situations.
I'm glad I finally understand more about the importance of adjectives within a story :D
It ultimately can shape the story into something exceptional or into something boring and repetitive.
Thanks for bringing such an insightful topic up ^^
yeah, that's a better clarification, Shiver. I suppose I'm pretty influenced by minimalist, hard-boiled writing styles myself so I'm still about wary about not using just 'said' most of the time, if only because I use too many adjectives and adverbs and I know it. It's only for dialogue I totally avoid them.
Yay ^^
Thing is, I'm still not the wonderful writer I actually want to be regardless of my style upgrade
Beginnings are okay I suppose, it's more of drawing out the middle sections of a story.
The "meat" of the sandwich per say seems to be a hassle even without dialogue.
Kat Dakuu: That's completely understandable. For a while, I said "said" a lot like it was my religion. Then as people began directing me through my writing, I turned to using too many verbs. Finally, I believe I'm in between the two. It just takes time.
Whimsical Sadist: No one is as good of a writer as they want to be. That's what makes them a better writer. Just striving to become a better writer period, makes you, er, the better writer. If that makes any sense.
Ha ha it does, don't worry XD
Thanks for the advice~
I wish I had someone to talk to earlier when I first began writing.
It would've made things a lot easier to understand as well as might've allowed me to see stories in a different light
I think there's no one right style to use, so craft essays and advice can only go so far. What might be golden for Stephen King might be (and probably is) trash for Virgina Woolf.
btw, no need to ping me. I think I'm just gonna subscribe to this thread for now.
oh yeah, no one thinks their writing is perfect and they deserve to be stoned if they do. I have a love hate relationship with my writing and it's even more of a bipolar relationship right now because I'm in the middle of editing something. Editing tends to be rough on your self esteem.
About said.
Well, it really depends on the story type? genre? target reader?
I didn't take any writing class, but start writing stories when I was 10 myself. For English, I just slowly learn the way of writting. I notice about the repetitive of said, and annoyed with it. So I tried the two ways you mention, descriptive or 'thesaurus'. Until now, I am slowly adjusting the balance of the two method to get the correct equilibrium. <3
I have to say I am one of those who find 'said' quite boring too... I often look for other words to replace it. I think if two characters are having a general, non animated talk, then using said is fine but there are some places where there should be other descriptive words, specially if the voice of the character is described or face expressions and specially the way a character laughs, makes fun or winks etc... it becomes more like watching a mentally projected movie while you read
Oh and thanks a million Shiverpass for that list of words
This is a very interesting thread. Great idea!
I love the examples! Variety is really great to have in a story! ^_^
Thank you very much!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maha-Aamir
I have to say I am one of those who find 'said' quite boring too... I often look for other words to replace it. I think if two characters are having a general, non animated talk, then using said is fine but there are some places where there should be other descriptive words, specially if the voice of the character is described or face expressions and specially the way a character laughs, makes fun or winks etc... it becomes more like watching a mentally projected movie while you read
Oh and thanks a million Shiverpass for that list of words
I couldn't agree more, to be honest!
Quote:
Originally Posted by xuvrette
... If there are only two characters talking, after the first 2 said, I don't even put who is the one speaking after that.
Just dialogue. XD
It could get confusing, maybe even repetitive for the reader. You might want to make sure you include their expressions and tone of voice with what they say. :)
Well, mostly it took them more than 5 sentences each to have a complete change of expression/discovered something/other feelings/change pose. Especially if they just sit down in a meeting, imagine a shareholder meeting type. The action is repetitive itself.
I am a long winded person, so if there is a chance for me to slip in a description, expression, action, I would do it. XD
actually, I agree with Xuv. A LOT of writers will stop doing the dialogue tags except rarely in dialogue to make sure the reader doesn't get lost, but with a two person dialogue, it's not hard to follow. every new line would be the other person and it's really best to learn how to write dialogue in such a way that different characters talk the same way, so you can recognize them without needing to be told all the time. Look at Hemingway, especially a short story like Hills Like White Elephants. You never get confused even though the story is mostly all dialogue and there are only a couple dialogue tags throughout the entire piece. Sometimes, dialogue has three times as much impact without any other information.
There is still one thing though, if consider the book size, page turns, we might need to add back in who was saying when the page is turn. hmm... but you will only know where is the page turn when the edits are done...
I am the kind of person that when I turn the page, I would have confusion with what happened before the page. lol.
true. have to worry about page turns because that's probably the space where someone would put a bookmark too and stop reading for the day. It would be easier with a short story than a novel to have lots of dialogue and little exposition.
It would depend on the book I suppose. Some novels would have only three chapters in them and a book of equal length might have 50. I'd be the one with a lot of chapters in my writing.
great idea! (so it doesn't seem like we're forever off-topic). Doesn't so much depend on the writers style and preference though? I wouldn't say one is totally right, but I like cliff-hangers myself. Though you really can't end every chapter on a big cliff-hanger or your readers might get pissed.
I laugh at the motion of getting reader pissed by having cliffhangers everywhere~
I am not sure whether chapter breaks are so important for writer style. It sounds to be more like a breaking things into manageable small chunk, than defining looooong chapter A style... no chapter C style. I have the impression it is more on length. Maybe I read too much Taiwan novels, you know their Romance novel, standardize to have 10 chapters? More or less the same length.
But even for English... let's see, I only heavily read Enid Blyton, her chapter break also pretty decent on lengths. Dont notice any style of it being cliff hanger, unfinish dialogue... The author for Hardy Boys detective stories though, heavily rely on cliffhangers big and small, but the lengths also pretty balance.
PS~ when I meant decent length, it means not too long or short, many chapters feels the same length.
I saw this and really had to post though.
If that makes any sense.
