Originally Posted by Tirael

LOL 8D;; I used to have a life in school. I don't anymore T___T;;; Well ok I have somewhat of a life, just not much DX.

baaahh NYU gave me a pretty good scholarship too D8> but it wasn't enough when you consider living expenses in NYC :'D... though I kinda regret it now.

Honestly I don't think it matters as much as you think in the end :F... I went to a really competitive highschool and I feel that my outlook on things is much more relaxed now.

Go where you think you'll be happy. It's not worth it if you end up somwhere where you're miserable, no matter the name of the school. I've also seen a lot of kids break down after a year or so from the pressure and other shit. I've had my own breakdown actually :F but I think I'm over it now.

I'm sure you'll do fine noa *3*

damn...I just had my breakdown a few hours ago...

*3*

Go midterms. :/

Originally Posted by ProdigyBombay

damn...I just had my breakdown a few hours ago...

*3*

Go midterms. :/

Lol. I broke down a few days ago, too. Agreed, yay midterms.

@Woe: 8O;; Whoa..that is pretty impressive...

XDD lmao! What's the first?

*3* Ohh never seen how she looks...

@tir: >3< Awwwww <333 8D;; I never had a life...I was always a recluse and drew or played videogames...*dies*

o3o ohhh, yeah XD;; I'm lucky I don't have to worrk about living expenses..I can just commute there.

>.< Aww thankies *hugs* <333. I think the fact that going to such a competitve taking a APcalcAB in junior year makes you feel like a sped is making me even more uptight about trying to go to a good school to show the geniuses that I'm not completly dumb. D8;; I've had quite a few emotional breakdowns because of such pressure in school and trying to balance school work with artwork. 8D I can usually keep it and control it in a few minutes/hours though, I'd rather not make people around me gloomy too, but cheerful <333.

@pb: Awwww >__< *hugs* yess midterms kill so many people outside our T3T.

Originally Posted by Noa

@Woe: 8O;; Whoa..that is pretty impressive...

XDD lmao! What's the first?

*3* Ohh never seen how she looks...

@tir: >3< Awwwww <333 8D;; I never had a life...I was always a recluse and drew or played videogames...*dies*

o3o ohhh, yeah XD;; I'm lucky I don't have to worrk about living expenses..I can just commute there.

>.< Aww thankies *hugs* <333. I think the fact that going to such a competitve taking a APcalcAB in junior year makes you feel like a sped is making me even more uptight about trying to go to a good school to show the geniuses that I'm not completly dumb. D8;; I've had quite a few emotional breakdowns because of such pressure in school and trying to balance school work with artwork. 8D I can usually keep it and control it in a few minutes/hours though, I'd rather not make people around me gloomy too, but cheerful <333.

@pb: Awwww >__< *hugs* yess midterms kill so many people outside our T3T.

Lol. I'll tell you who goes where over MSN.

And, lol... Yang's on facebook, dummy.

*lol* When you figure out how the hell to get one's bloody name out there, let me know?

:) I'm still a n00b-unknown-artist, and you know what's really sad? XD When I first started Gaia, they wouldn't let me sell oil paintings. Hell they wouldn't let me friggin GIVE OUT oil paintings even if I was to cover the shipping and handling. Do you know how ridiculous that is, compared to what I'm used to? o.O'''' I mean I'm not the best--far from it--I'm just about avg. but even I can get paid for what I do RL. To have an online community insist that I can't sell something real for playgold was just...blah. And even now, when I returned to Gaia, I practically had to beg people to accept freebies in the beginning. The only reason I did freebies initially was to get some anime-esque samples done. I don't normally do anime because it's not my preference. -.o' Nor of those that commission me RL.

But...yeeeah, if you figure out how to really get your name out there without having been in gaia since like 2002 or something, and without having to advertise like mad, lemme know? ^^' I'm rather curious also.

LoL XDD just be everywhere at the same time? 8D;; Iunno... do a lot of auctions? Get to know all the other artists? DX no idea really D8> Just get your art out there...

Oh. Have people in the artwhore guild advertise you to the other artwhores. That helps I believe... but gaia's a funny thing, no? x.o

And I believe that your art is worth more than some pixel gold 8D <3

Do you have a website or DA? O:

Originally Posted by ScarletStratholme

*lol* When you figure out how the hell to get one's bloody name out there, let me know?

:) I'm still a n00b-unknown-artist, and you know what's really sad? XD When I first started Gaia, they wouldn't let me sell oil paintings. Hell they wouldn't let me friggin GIVE OUT oil paintings even if I was to cover the shipping and handling. Do you know how ridiculous that is, compared to what I'm used to? o.O'''' I mean I'm not the best--far from it--I'm just about avg. but even I can get paid for what I do RL. To have an online community insist that I can't sell something real for playgold was just...blah. And even now, when I returned to Gaia, I practically had to beg people to accept freebies in the beginning. The only reason I did freebies initially was to get some anime-esque samples done. I don't normally do anime because it's not my preference. -.o' Nor of those that commission me RL.

But...yeeeah, if you figure out how to really get your name out there without having been in gaia since like 2002 or something, and without having to advertise like mad, lemme know? ^^' I'm rather curious also.

On gaia, it's link trades, advertising, and collaborating with artists more famous than you, lol.

As for Gaia saying you can't sell your originals - Well, that's for legal reasons. Especially with Second LIfe, a lot of people don't know how to judge electronic transactions. For example - second life allows you to trade thier units of money for real money. If you could hand in your gaia gold for real money - should you be taxed for it? One woman made over $60,000 on second life. My friend made $1,100 selling her Gaia items on eBay. Most sites are waiting out any sort of legislatsion by just making online-for-real-currency transcations against Terms of Service. (For example, EBay no longer allows virtual auctions.) It's not totally a silly matter, Strath, it's just one that hassn't been sorted out yet - not just on Gaia but in the real world.

That said, I'd love an oil painting, lol.

Yeah, uh, Gaia's not the best place for someone who doesn't do anime. THat's just... that's basically it. Find a target segment and market to them. Most people on Gaia aren't looking for oil paintings. Most of your samples are reproductions of other works, like the Kinsey for example. From what I see, most people on Gaia aren't looking for reproductions of other pictures of thier characters but rather completely new ones in very distinctive styles. I'm almost practically sure you have non-repro work, but you're not showing it on Gaia. It's useless to market pure technique if it's not waht your target segment wants.

Can't say there's a way to fame without any work. I just can't.

Originally Posted by Tirael

Oh. Have people in the artwhore guild advertise you to the other artwhores. That helps I believe... but gaia's a funny thing, no? x.o

Lol. I do that for people. I'm relatively active in OGAWG.

Ehh DX I think I'm not extremely well known but relatively so 8D;; I think it's just because I do a -lot- of auctions though. That's it.... hmm yah D:...

Oh I guess also if you have something special that makes you stand out.. like a style. Woe has her pencil works, PB has a very distinctive style... etc etc. Then people tend to remember you and not group you together with the other few hundred artists that are similar.

But I bet you don't have that problem since there are so few oil painters.

Originally Posted by Tirael

Ehh DX I think I'm not extremely well known but relatively so 8D;; I think it's just because I do a -lot- of auctions though. That's it.... hmm yah D:...

Oh I guess also if you have something special that makes you stand out.. like a style. Woe has her pencil works, PB has a very distinctive style... etc etc. Then people tend to remember you and not group you together with the other few hundred artists that are similar.

But I bet you don't have that problem since there are so few oil painters.

I think a lot of people in thier minds pair you up with jAded becaus eyou guys hang around each other a lot (rox as well). Your pencil styles are similar, but yours are higher contrast and more anime style in faces. And like, jAded is like, killer popular. XD So that's ot your advantage?

But yeah - capitalize on one thing. That's pretty much waht Ramy's been telling me. And,... well, if you look at DA's front page. It certainly worked for him.

Fame however, is different from profitability. Like, if you go for a niche market, you're probably not going to become famous outside that niche - but if you're the best in that niche, you'll be making as much as those in the mainstream.

LoL yeah 8D;; Hmm I was active a couple years back on gaia and then left off for a while and came back last summer... when I met Jade and all thems o3o... (I actually never heard of jade before that >w>;; )

Hurr but yes. Make friends >3> It sounds kinda cheap but it works... although that shouldn't be WHY you make friends though X'D...

Originally Posted by Tirael

LoL yeah 8D;; Hmm I was active a couple years back on gaia and then left off for a while and came back last summer... when I met Jade and all thems o3o... (I actually never heard of jade before that >w>;; )

Hurr but yes. Make friends >3> It sounds kinda cheap but it works... although that shouldn't be WHY you make friends though X'D...

Yeah, I remember you as puddingphobia, and I was trying to win a watercolor in one of your auctions. XD; yeah, uh.. *points to Deluge* CAN'T DO THAT NOW.

Lol. Agreed on the second part, though. I should hope that people who make friends for fame don't get any friends, though. DX! Lol, I get frustrated with suckups quickly.

LoL yeah X'D... I changed my name because someone (I think khel) said that she kept getting confused between puddingphobia and my DA name and I'd been meaning to change it for a while so ya 8D;;

I CAN STILL DIG OUT THAT WATERCOLOR AUCTION. From 2005... I remember my first one went for 100k then the second one 200k.

Before that I used to sell ink paintings for like... 500g or 1k DX back in 2004 or so.

I donno I guess I start out with more automatic respect for artists I admire but as time goes on it's really their personalities that attract or repel me :3.

o.O Hrms. Because for me my main problem is the work I have done prior to this tends to be rather boring landscapes, or if it's portraits it is family portraits, and a TON of those I can't show without getting permission from the people who commissioned me, and a lot of them would prefer I don't display family portraits of theirs for some online thing you know? I don't blame em. Kind of a privacy thing.

OC's I'm just now trying my hand at, but I'm debating if I should stay in oil paintings or try different media entirely for online stuff, or just stick to oils but sell RL and then use that $$ to buy a ton of donation lettters instead of have to deal with online 12 year olds with ridiculous requests and triggerhappy mods of Gaia. -.o''

Cause RL commissions are not hard to do; I have a sort of niche here and it pays well enough. The main thing though is just that RL commissions are usually a lot more dull..but then again you don't get ridiculous requests or pissy children that don't understand that you're not willing to repaint the entire durn background after it's been done. o.O' I dunno.

I'm currently experimenting with watercolors though. ^^ They seem to dry much faster, be a touch cheaper, and are brighter. My main problem right now is just pencil marks and making sure I wait long enough for stuff to dry before starting the section that's right next to it, but pestering Tirael lots for hints. XD

As far as doing a bajillion auctions go..I really truly cannot, because I need an easel. I can't just tape it to my desk and call it that. It doesn't work. I've tried. I need to stretch fabric, and I need easels, and my school limits the number of easels one can hog. =/ So I can't really do a bajillion commissions at once, because not only do I have RL commissions that I pay bills with, but I also have misc. birthdays of friends, so on so forth, and with the studio limiting easels it's harder. I did try to get friends of mine to sign up spaces for me, but even so, I kind of feel bad when I'm taking up more than 4 or so you know? ^^'''

I can justify it to myself if it's commissions I'm doing for money to pay for food and such..but not when it's for forums.

I think tir brings up a really good point about style~

Style is something that you develop overtime based on your own preferences. Every artist starts out doing reproductions...god knows, I drew enough sailormoon art basically copying exactly what i saw back in the day. And I can't even begin to tell you how many pieces of fruit I drew in order to learn how to draw still life. In fact, I'm STILL working on my still life and figure drawing...though I've moved on from fruit ^^. These things are all important, as woe said. They can show your technical skill, and you really do need technical skill in order to succeed. Because if you can do good enough stilllifes, that means there isn't really anything that you shouldn't be able to draw from observation.

However, copying other artists, or copying from real life works up until a point. Because anyone with the technical basis can say...ok...TODAY I'll draw like monet...just because I feel like it. However, doing your own style is a lot harder, because its something that you develop yourself through sweat, tears, and a lot of hard work. Even in technical stuff like still lifes, you should be able to see an artist's individual style shine through.

However, when you're talking about getting famous on an anime influenced website like gaia or mene, its really hard to do if your artwork doesn't reflect some sort of influence by manga/anime. I'm not saying its impossible to do, one example of a unique style that was a extremely popular's was Sixio, because everyone else on the website simply don't draw like him.

Also, magaly's style is really distinct on gaia, if you saw a piece of artwork, you would recognize it instantly as hers. Its that kind of recognizability and the skill that goes behind it that's really the basis of fame in my pov. Because even if its a GOOD and SOLID piece of artwork, but no one will recognize it, well then, you're not really famous are you? Producing generic works...well, lets just say its pretty impossible to get famous that way.

Experiment a little. Find out what you like. Draw what you like. You'll get it, I know ^^

scarlet: hmm I still say don't take fame too seriously on gaia D8> RL should always come first and the golds are just that... fake online golds :'D... they don't do anything for you.

AND YES I TOLD YOU TO MAKE SURE TO LET STUFF DRY BEFORE PAINTING NEXT TO IT X'D... or did I say that to someone else? DX I don't remember. But that's where the hairdryer may be handy.

Other than that I agree with PB about the style and recognizability completely. 8D;; (I have no idea how many geometric blocks/stillifes I did... but those don't exactly sell)

Oh yeah and birds/dragons whatever... XD I used to draw unicorns and cats all the time...

I didn't start out that way. o.O I started out drawing boring crap like apples and oranges and grapes. -.o'

I continued with drawing exactly as I see, and then spent a few years creating things in my head and painting them onto canvas.

My teacher, Mrs. Gwenn, never suggested nor encouraged testing out other styles till the basics were nailed. In college and in spare time, I started painting more like this, more like that, but it was primarily to see if I can, and also if someone asked it specifically.

Everyone has their preferences, I suppose, but to me, if it were my "trademark" to do big eyes, or something like that, I wouldn't see it as a trademark. I only see it as a sort of deviant from what is in mind. I think my "norm" is realism. Even when I'm painting completely fabricated characters, they are like people that are real, that I have seen, etc. They're not anime style, they don't necessarily all have this feature or that, or any particular type of mouth. If told to paint this way or that, I can probably do it. If left entirely up to me, I just do it as realistically as I can, so that it feels like you can go up to the horse and pet it, or that the embroidery on the clothes, the lace, etc. is touchable. I don't have a certain preset style, I just paint realism, I guess.

Originally Posted by Tirael

scarlet: hmm I still say don't take fame too seriously on gaia D8> RL should always come first and the golds are just that... fake online golds :'D... they don't do anything for you.

AND YES I TOLD YOU TO MAKE SURE TO LET STUFF DRY BEFORE PAINTING NEXT TO IT X'D... or did I say that to someone else? DX I don't remember. But that's where the hairdryer may be handy.

Other than that I agree with PB about the style and recognizability completely. 8D;; (I have no idea how many geometric blocks/stillifes I did... but those don't exactly sell)

Oh yeah and birds/dragons whatever... XD I used to draw unicorns and cats all the time...

I don't really like to paint cats. =/ I don't mind almost anything else with fur..but cats turn out slightly evil-looking in every attempt I've tried to do of them. x.x' That's why I didn't do Tiana Sidhe's wedding thing. She wanted many cats. >.<'''''

Yesh..you told me to use blowdryer, but my blowdryer smells like my conditioner, and it kept moving the water all funky. =/ I think I used too much water. So then I stopped using it and then let it dry normally and then I got impatient and started painting and it leaked. >.<'''

But i'll just wait longer I think in the future, cause otherwise it also makes weird little ripple things. o.O'''

LOOL XDD;;; XDDDD;; oh I also have a paper towel handy in case I have a huge amount of water and need to absorb it before it goes all over the place... yeah don't use TOO much water o3o.

I guess just experiment and see what happens? O:.

XD I'm sure you'll do fine though :3

XD; Lol. I feel so mean - I've been talking completely in a businessperson manner. Ah, I blame Wharton. I dunno, in short - Strath, you've got a shitload of skill. Like I'm talking a titanic-sized heap of skill. But you're not putting it to the right place, I don't think. Gaia doesn't... doesn't really go for realism. Not your fault. but *shrug* Que sera sera.

Also, I've notived, with your paintings, a lot of the way you display them online is via a blurry photo or a MSPain edited piece. Sorry dude, but that's not going to fly in the marketing world. Packaging's as important as product. You'll want those pictures to be clearer and better displayed. That's probably why in real life you have such a huge advantage. I suggest taking photos outside on a sunny day, no flash.

But yeah, PB pretty much as it if you're going to go for fame on Gaia. But really, the only good thing about fame on Gaia is it sometimes lands you some RL commisssions *eheheh.* Or at least, that's my personal reason for doing it.

I should pick up watercolor again. It's been years. X3;

I don't think style is everything, because to be honest, if you know the basics well enough to paint almost any style freehand, first-shot, without really correcting much, you can add trademark features such as larger eyes, poutier lips, etc. at any time.

I just choose not to, because it distorts from what I originally wanted.

And...While it may be true that many people can copy, not that many can apply a single style to an array of characters, scenes, etc. I can turn almost any landscape scene into a Kinkade-esque style painting, or more Mucha-esque for most portraits, etc. etc.. It isn't completely blindly nor without any skill whatsoever, it's just that a lot of the times, when you do get asked to do something, people only ask you for what they have seen.

^^ I kinda like Kinkade's soft backgrounds, so that is why I've accepted more commissions that request something along those lines than any other..but at the same time, it isn't impossible or even really that difficult to do backgrounds with sharper edges, more contrast; and for more realistic peices, that's what I end up doing, you know?

Even when drawing realism, there are things you can do to tweak it to your own specific style/preferences.

If you take a look at this piece of artwork for example: [x]
Its obviously heavily influenced by realism, However, the artist has added her own touches onto it, accentuating the features, etc. I bet you if you sold this kind of art on gaia >__>;; PEOPLE WOULD GO WILD. The quality+style of this artwork is what makes it stand out...not to mention the composition of it.

Scarlet, you mentioned that you do a lot of landscapes and stuff? Well, even that doesn't have to be boring. XD

This piece of work [x] works mainly as a landscape...but its ANYTHING but boring. The color choices that the artist uses, the composition, and especially the style in which the artist paints in...they all contribute towards making this a piece of art that anyone can admire, whether they're an anime artist, or a realism artist, or an abstract artist.

Originally Posted by fongmingyun

XD; Lol. I feel so mean - I've been talking completely in a businessperson manner. Ah, I blame Wharton. I dunno, in short - Strath, you've got a shitload of skill. Like I'm talking a titanic-sized heap of skill. But you're not putting it to the right place, I don't think. Gaia doesn't... doesn't really go for realism. Not your fault. but *shrug* Que sera sera.

Also, I've notived, with your paintings, a lot of the way you display them online is via a blurry photo or a MSPain edited piece. Sorry dude, but that's not going to fly in the marketing world. Packaging's as important as product. You'll want those pictures to be clearer and better displayed. That's probably why in real life you have such a huge advantage. I suggest taking photos outside on a sunny day, no flash.

But yeah, PB pretty much as it if you're going to go for fame on Gaia. But really, the only good thing about fame on Gaia is it sometimes lands you some RL commisssions *eheheh.* Or at least, that's my personal reason for doing it.

I should pick up watercolor again. It's been years. X3;

So do you, P. Bombay. :)

Yeah..a lot of them are too friggin ginormous. T_T'' I brought a 24 x 32 to Kinkos and asked the dude to help me scan it in and he gave me this, "uh......" look. T_T''' And then told me I should take a picture of it. So that's what I ended up doing with a lot of paintings, rather than to even try to get em to help, since they charge for computer/scanner use by the minute. x_x'''

I kinda took on a few interesting Gaia commissions because of stuff like weddings. ^^ And birthdays. =^.^=

I dunno I think I'll try to finish these current commissions and then figure out from there what the heck to do commissionwise. Like you said packaging is important, and RL what I do I just shove into a shop at the mall, they go figure out how the hell to display and sell it, and take a cut. But online, I fail at marketing. ^^'

Originally Posted by ScarletStratholme

I don't think style is everything, because to be honest, if you know the basics well enough to paint almost any style freehand, first-shot, without really correcting much, you can add trademark features such as larger eyes, poutier lips, etc. at any time.

I just choose not to, because it distorts from what I originally wanted.

And...While it may be true that many people can copy, not that many can apply a single style to an array of characters, scenes, etc. I can turn almost any landscape scene into a Kinkade-esque style painting, or more Mucha-esque for most portraits, etc. etc.. It isn't completely blindly nor without any skill whatsoever, it's just that a lot of the times, when you do get asked to do something, people only ask you for what they have seen.

^^ I kinda like Kinkade's soft backgrounds, so that is why I've accepted more commissions that request something along those lines than any other..but at the same time, it isn't impossible or even really that difficult to do backgrounds with sharper edges, more contrast; and for more realistic peices, that's what I end up doing, you know?

No, style's not everything. But if you want to be reocgnized as yourself, not as someone who can copy other peoples' work, you're going to have to give yourself trademarks - eg, Kinkade-esque backgrounds. But seriously, style even comes down to just the way you move your wrist - and that's something you can't change. I have disgustingly small hands. No way can my strokes be as big as that guy who's half a foot taller than me.

If your style is direct, absolute realism, play that up.

It's not a matter of whether or not you can alter someone else's style, but a matter of having something that will make you different - make people want to buy from you versus that-other-guy-overthere with the same educational background as you.

(btw, as for your feimo exaple, PB... people on Gaia would go for it simply because a) he's a bishie, lulz. and b) he's asian XD. And I think the artbytheo example is a good case in point.)

Doesn't matter if you're anime, realism, or abstract, making onesself distinct is a huge advantage in marketing.

It's fantasy, the second one. I really like the way it flows together. o.O The first is probably more what I would prefer to do, because people are interesting things to paint. ^^ <3

I just haven't gotten much of a chance to do a ton of fantasy. :) Hope to get started on that with these upcoming commissions though. =^.^= Get to finally do a water-nymph type person for Nenya, and an octopus-guy for her too, and Yumehayla's is a really large landscape with a person to the side of it kinda, so I dunno. :) That's kinda why I like doing commissions for forums like this and Gaia; because it gives me opportunity to work outside the usual boring drab of "paint the usual family portrait of 2 kids 2 parents 1 dog" thing.