Originally Posted by Elirona

@CK: I believe Morenatsu is still in development, as some of the character paths haven't been completed. I haven't touched it in a long time though, so it might be done at this point.

I think that might be the furry game I've seen listed on the BL games Tumblr I follow. xD So I should be able to check out the progress maybe later this month. :3

Oh my god CK, that sounds so complicated D: I wouldn't know how to make those character types fit together as a whole. I don't know much about these games though. I guess I like sleepy or catlike characters? That's not much to go on. I thought it'd be like, start with the MC and see who they would gather around them in the larger context. All I know is my head hurts right now.
Maybe I'm not the target audience, the idea of tea on a spaceship sounds great. I mean, it's halfway to douglas adams, really. Also not a BL person. As a straight woman, it makes me feel like a peeping tom. I realize that's just me though. Everyone's got their kinks, you know?

Yeah, I feel you on the kinks thing, Biggles. It's funny that some girls like yaoi and other things like that. It IS the kind of thing I'm into though, being a gay man. Though, I prefer bara over yaoi. :p

Originally Posted by CK

I don't think I have, really. I'm not sure. >_>; If I want to play something in the iStore, I have to borrow my mom's iPad and I generally just can't be bothered. And I don't feel it's sensible to buy a game for a system I don't actually own myself. xD; I have a Kindle, and very little dating-sim-ish is available for it. (And I don't really know how to buy something from the Google Android store and port it over. I mean, I've ported a couple of games before, so I know it's possible. But Google won't let me buy or even download free stuff from their shop unless it's going directly to a non-Kindle device, and I don't have one.)

Ah, makes sense to not buy games for a platform you don't have, haha. If, at some point, you do get an android or iOS device, I would recommend Voltage games. Their guys and stories can be very trope-ish at times, but I've had some great experiences with them. I'm still half in love with some of their guys. *swoon* Their production value is pretty solid at this point, and they just released their first voice-acted story recently. (I think the original Japanese games have more voice acting, but we haven't gotten any state-side before now. It's in Japanese, but that is fine by me!)

Shall We Date? also makes a lot of good games, mostly of the daily freemium variety.

Originally Posted by CK

I write romance novels for a living...

oh em gee, teach me your ways, sensei!

Originally Posted by Cardinal Biggles

Oh my god CK, that sounds so complicated D: I wouldn't know how to make those character types fit together as a whole. I don't know much about these games though. I guess I like sleepy or catlike characters? That's not much to go on. I thought it'd be like, start with the MC and see who they would gather around them in the larger context. All I know is my head hurts right now.
Maybe I'm not the target audience, the idea of tea on a spaceship sounds great. I mean, it's halfway to douglas adams, really. Also not a BL person. As a straight woman, it makes me feel like a peeping tom. I realize that's just me though. Everyone's got their kinks, you know?

Haha, sleepy and catlike characters, I love them too. I'm sure they have some name of their own, but I always think of them as the quiet tsundere (as opposed to some of the more aggressively tsundere types).

Also, I second this idea of a sci-fi comedy of manners with tea time. That would be a great setting for a VN.

Originally Posted by Elirona

Yeah, I feel you on the kinks thing, Biggles. It's funny that some girls like yaoi and other things like that. It IS the kind of thing I'm into though, being a gay man. Though, I prefer bara over yaoi. :p

Not gonna lie, as a straight lady, I enjoy both yaoi and yuri stuff, even though that is not my personal sexuality. I just super duper love romance and sexy time, and don't really care what the genders are, so long as everyone is having a good time.

Haha, bara. It can be very yum. (Although it often goes over the top for my tastes. I tend to prefer the waify, skinny boys.)

Originally Posted by Cardinal Biggles

Oh my god CK, that sounds so complicated D: I wouldn't know how to make those character types fit together as a whole. I don't know much about these games though. [...] I thought it'd be like, start with the MC and see who they would gather around them in the larger context. All I know is my head hurts right now.

Hahaha - it's not so hard as I guess I made it sound. xD It's just like any other genre, really. (Especially romance. They like knowing what "type" of hero they're going to get when they pick up a book. They're a bit more forgiving if you give them someone different than romance sim gamers seem to be, from my lurking around fandoms.)

You read in the genre until you start picking up on the commonalities. You can research the tropes directly, too. You figure out what you enjoy and what you'd be good at writing. And you practice so you can write different sorts of things from what "feels comfortable" naturally.

It is pretty much what you said, it's just looking at it from a different perspective, so it might seem a little funhouse mirror to you if you're not used to looking that way. xD

Sometimes I do start with the MC (actually, most the time, I guess I do. I was using one of my VN ideas as an example where I started from the story I wanted and worked to figure out the characters based on the story). The MC in the story I used in my example is a knight (still up in the air what gender they are. Probably will be a girl, but I'd like to have the option for both) - so I have another few characters I didn't mention that came from thinking about what sort of people the MC might meet and have a reason to interact with during the story. Just as a random example, I could have a great idea for a sexy jester, but a jester wouldn't have much of a reason to go with the MC on the Quest.

I guess I like sleepy or catlike characters? That's not much to go on.

Those are both good "types", imho. xD I enjoy those types too. I'm terrible at roleplaying the sleepy types. But maybe I'd be better at writing them. Hmm.

Maybe I'm not the target audience, the idea of tea on a spaceship sounds great. I mean, it's halfway to douglas adams, really.

I have to admit, as I typed it up for the example, it sounded like something I'd write. >_> (I wasn't using it in a negative sense, though. I enjoy adventure stories and also quiet stories about social interaction. But when I want to read adventure, I'd fall asleep or get bored trying to read something quiet like tea time.)

Also not a BL person. As a straight woman, it makes me feel like a peeping tom. I realize that's just me though. Everyone's got their kinks, you know?

Yeah - no worries. xD It's not going to be for everyone. I'm indifferent to yuri/shoujo-ai/lesbian romance myself. Doesn't bother me if someone likes or doesn't like something. xD

I used to feel that way myself (about feeling like a peeping tom). I honestly don't remember what the turning point for me was. I'd read fantasy stories with gay characters before and nothing ever clicked for me.

I know one of the major turning points was my friend and I playing out a scenario where our two straight male characters had to kiss during a sort of spy mission. It was a sort of a joke storyline since they were both in love with the same woman and my character kept trying to one up my friend's character. This was the first time they'd worked together. Of course, my friend's character was one of those.... I'm not sure if you've ever seen the movie "The Cat Returns", but he was quite a bit like the Baron. Add in a bit of the Count from The Count of Monte Cristo and a bit of James Bond. Just smoulderingly sexy, very capable, refined, and rarely breaking his cool. But the kiss did throw him, which provoked an extreme, fangirlish glee in me. My character felt smug. Then her character regained control of himself and proceeded to make my character's toes curl. And I went, "holy cow, I didn't know my character was bi, but there's no way he wouldn't be attracted after that."

I feel like at around the same time, someone presented me with a good argument for why Remus Lupin and Sirius Black from Harry Potter made sense and someone directed me to a nice slash comic of Phoenix Wright and Edgeworth and after that, it was all downhill from there. ._. Haven't got quite as bad as to reject canon pairings (...mostly. Okay. I can't help a little bit of Sherlock/Watson from BBC's Sherlock when the show itself goes beyond subtext and keeps teasing the idea - but I don't wish death or divorce on Watson's wife, so we're all good) or ship people together just because "they're pretty together".

/RAMBLE

Originally Posted by Elirona

Yeah, I feel you on the kinks thing, Biggles. It's funny that some girls like yaoi and other things like that. It IS the kind of thing I'm into though, being a gay man. Though, I prefer bara over yaoi. :p

xD That's fair enough. I'd imagine I'd find it a little weird and funny in the same situation. And I think most of the gay guys I know feel similarly, "lol, you're weird. I prefer men who are men." (I don't know very many gay guys who are more on the effeminate side, but they tend to prefer bara types themselves.) Not that I ask, since that seems rude. But those who volunteer all seem to indicate a preference for larger and/or buffer guys.

Originally Posted by Chexala

Shall We Date? also makes a lot of good games, mostly of the daily freemium variety.

Yeah - I've played a few of those. xD Just sort of an, "Argh, I really want to play something... Okay, I'll borrow the ipad since they're in bed and not using it." I get really frustrated with the pacing, though. ._. Blargh for only getting so many little chunks a day. It's probably about 500-750 words of story each day and I've probably got more words in this post than that. Can't stand it. xD

Of the SWD? games I've played, the heroine is often too stupid to live anyway, which also frustrates me. xD It kills me when your options are, "Say this and prove you're too stupid to live." or "Say this and show you're a big ball of fail." I kind of want to steal the premise of some of these games (just the most basic ideas like, "the heroine is an X and Y situation is going on!" Not the whole plot and characters.) and write my own.

The art is SO PRETTY, though. I feel like part of my issues with SWD? games is that the translations are a little poor. Culture differences are another. I try to set aside my Western perspective, but it's hard. xD

I guess I should share this: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m...hool-lovers--2
Kylonplete is doing an Indiegogo campaign to help release a new game. The premise looks great, but it's not for Kindle or PC, so... >_>

oh em gee, teach me your ways, sensei!

Well! To start:

1) Read a lot! A LOT. Not just in romance, but just in general.

2) Write a LOT.

3) Study writing. (Behind the spoiler - writing book recs and a small ramble.)

SPOILERX

I don't have a particular romance writing book I recommend, but I haven't read many. In the meantime, I hear that "The Writer's Journey" by Christopher Vogler and "Techniques of the Selling Writer" by Dwight Swain are really good writing books. (Looking forward to getting my copies.) Stephen King's "On Writing" was mostly good. And Dean Koontz wrote a pretty great one called "Writing Popular Fiction", which kind of spells out the frameworks for several genres. The Holly Lisle book I read (How to Write Page-Turning Scenes) was REALLY good, so I want to pick up more of hers. Mary Buckham's "Writing Active Setting" bundle was really great too. And I learned a lot from "The Writer and the Hero's Journey" by Rob Parnell. ..... That should be plenty enough books to recommend since you're sure to be able to find at least a couple of them at your library if you don't want to start buying them. xD

Ultimately, studying writing books isn't as important as reading and writing. It'll mostly just make you more aware of what you're reading. The more you study, the harder it'll be to "just enjoy the story" and accept it at face value when you read, watch tv/movies, or play games. So, fair warning there. And I suggest reading more than one book because what works for one writer might not work for another. They will also contradict each other, which should eventually make you realize that it's okay to disagree with other writers on the best way to approach story and how you work.

4) When you're ready to publish, carefully research your options. (Further rambling behind the spoiler.)

SPOILERX

I've chosen to self-publish. It's the best way to make money in publishing romance. You also don't have to worry about contracts as much.

Harlequin may be the biggest publisher in romance, but they're currently being sued because they may have promised 50% of net sales on ebooks, but "net" ended up being 3% of list because they played shell games with their companies. If they'd been less greedy, the authors probably never would have noticed the discrepancy. And if they did notice, it wouldn't have been worth the legal fees to pursue a lawsuit or ask for an audit. (Especially since either may mean that no publishing company will want to work with them.)

Self-publishing isn't for everyone, but you need to at least know what you're giving up when you go with a publishing company and need to know what to look for before you sign a contract. It's perfectly legal for a company to present you with a contract that says they own your book and can pay you peanuts on it, they own your characters and you can't write them again without their permission, they own your world and you can't write in it without their permission, they own the film/game/teeshirt/foreign translation/everything rights to your project and don't have to pay you another penny on it, and they even own the name you publish under. If you sign it, you're stuck with it for a minimum of... I think it's 30 years? And probably the contract will hold until 70 years after your death. So you could write the next Harry Potter and you and your family could live on Ramen because you didn't read your contract.

5) Before you go for any publishing options, fiction-sharing is a great idea! Sites like Wattpad for original works and fanfiction sites for, y'know, fanfiction are great learning tools. You can get feedback from people and find out what does and doesn't work. And you can even build a following that way. :) (I used to write fanfiction years and years ago. I do not have a built-in following. A built-in following isn't necessary, though. It just takes longer to build.)

And. Uhm..... Yeah. xD Always happy to help as much as I can. But I'll shut up now. >_>

Also, I second this idea of a sci-fi comedy of manners with tea time. That would be a great setting for a VN.

You never know. xD I might just write it.

Not gonna lie, as a straight lady, I enjoy both yaoi and yuri stuff, even though that is not my personal sexuality. I just super duper love romance and sexy time, and don't really care what the genders are, so long as everyone is having a good time.

I think that's probably ultimately why I enjoy BL as much as I do. Love is love. I don't seek out yuri, because I just haven't found a yuri storyline I really enjoyed (I haven't got very far in the Buffy series yet, so I don't know if the relationship between W and T gets to a place where I'm all, NAWW yet... the episode I left off at made me feel like it wasn't a relationship dynamic I'd support whether the pair was M/F or M/M or F/F, but I'm hoping T grows a bit more). I'm sure once I find a pairing that hits the right buttons, it'll be the same thing for me, turning my, "Sure, it's all good!" into "oooh I want to find more stories like this!"


SORRY FOR THE TEXT WALL YOU GUYS.

Maybe a sexy Troubadour instead of a jester? There's precedent there as far as going on a quest. Ha, even Monty Python and the Holy Grail had mistrals on the quest. Though they did get eaten. Oh, spoilers, sorry!

Re: Watson and Holmes shipping: It';s the bane of my existence on tumblr xD mostly because it's tonedeaf. I do agree that the BBC version has gone past the point of no return by the third series, but I saw that is pure queer baiting, especially in view of the comments made by the creators and cast (Moffit says Holmes is straight/Cumberbatch says holmes is straight/The character of Watson actually shouts "I'm not gay!" at one point, etc) (Holmes actually reads as more asexual to me, but they've nixed that too)
I can understand why many people read Holmes and Watson as a couple at first blush, but I've never done so for two reasons: One, I believe that friendship can be complex and nuanced, and two, my understanding of victorian behavioral standards. When it comes to the cannon, the latter plays in very strongly for me because Doyle's stories were never "detective stories" to me. They were"victorian stories about a detective and his cases". The victorian informs almost everything in them, especially the conduct and mores of it. And so it's present in every interaction. I do believe that individuals with a strong understanding of victorian gay culture can contribute to the discussion in a lot of meaningful ways (for instance, the presence of visits to turkish baths in the stories and the modern understanding that these were a meeting place for gay men at the time), though we can't be sure of Doyle's knowledge of this underworld to say it's anything definitive.
I've never had any inclination to ship the two, not even when you have a gender bent character, like in Elementary. They are one of the greatest literary examples of friendship for me. But I can understand why people have the impulse. It's just the rabid, hormonal sort of shipping that makes me so tired (see my previous comment about tumblr)

Originally Posted by CK

Yeah - I've played a few of those. xD Just sort of an, "Argh, I really want to play something... Okay, I'll borrow the ipad since they're in bed and not using it." I get really frustrated with the pacing, though. ._. Blargh for only getting so many little chunks a day. It's probably about 500-750 words of story each day and I've probably got more words in this post than that. Can't stand it. xD

Of the SWD? games I've played, the heroine is often too stupid to live anyway, which also frustrates me. xD It kills me when your options are, "Say this and prove you're too stupid to live." or "Say this and show you're a big ball of fail." I kind of want to steal the premise of some of these games (just the most basic ideas like, "the heroine is an X and Y situation is going on!" Not the whole plot and characters.) and write my own.

The art is SO PRETTY, though. I feel like part of my issues with SWD? games is that the translations are a little poor. Culture differences are another. I try to set aside my Western perspective, but it's hard. xD

I guess I should share this: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m...hool-lovers--2
Kylonplete is doing an Indiegogo campaign to help release a new game. The premise looks great, but it's not for Kindle or PC, so... >_>

Agreed. The slow pacing is very annoying, and ugh, the checkpoints! I hate having to "greet" all my "friends" in order to get currency for whatever checkpoint items I need. And yes, their language and cultural translation is not a solid as Voltage, although even with them, I have to remind myself that these stories are Japanese and behavior expectations are different.

As for the MC, well, it depends on the game probably. She hasn't been unbearable in any of the ones I've played so far. In fact, in their newest game The Niflheim, the MC is pretty rad. Generous, caring, self-aware, pretty direct about her feelings, very active in the story, but also laid back and able to roll with the punches. Also, her tutor is this skeleton guy, and he is hilarious. This is his introduction and it only get's better from there. From what I can tell, pretty much everyone is waiting eagerly for him to become a datable character. (Me included.)

Originally Posted by CK

Well! To start:

1) Read a lot! A LOT. Not just in romance, but just in general.

2) Write a LOT.

3) Study writing. (Behind the spoiler - writing book recs and a small ramble.)

SPOILERX

I don't have a particular romance writing book I recommend, but I haven't read many. In the meantime, I hear that "The Writer's Journey" by Christopher Vogler and "Techniques of the Selling Writer" by Dwight Swain are really good writing books. (Looking forward to getting my copies.) Stephen King's "On Writing" was mostly good. And Dean Koontz wrote a pretty great one called "Writing Popular Fiction", which kind of spells out the frameworks for several genres. The Holly Lisle book I read (How to Write Page-Turning Scenes) was REALLY good, so I want to pick up more of hers. Mary Buckham's "Writing Active Setting" bundle was really great too. And I learned a lot from "The Writer and the Hero's Journey" by Rob Parnell. ..... That should be plenty enough books to recommend since you're sure to be able to find at least a couple of them at your library if you don't want to start buying them. xD

Ultimately, studying writing books isn't as important as reading and writing. It'll mostly just make you more aware of what you're reading. The more you study, the harder it'll be to "just enjoy the story" and accept it at face value when you read, watch tv/movies, or play games. So, fair warning there. And I suggest reading more than one book because what works for one writer might not work for another. They will also contradict each other, which should eventually make you realize that it's okay to disagree with other writers on the best way to approach story and how you work.

4) When you're ready to publish, carefully research your options. (Further rambling behind the spoiler.)

SPOILERX

I've chosen to self-publish. It's the best way to make money in publishing romance. You also don't have to worry about contracts as much.

Harlequin may be the biggest publisher in romance, but they're currently being sued because they may have promised 50% of net sales on ebooks, but "net" ended up being 3% of list because they played shell games with their companies. If they'd been less greedy, the authors probably never would have noticed the discrepancy. And if they did notice, it wouldn't have been worth the legal fees to pursue a lawsuit or ask for an audit. (Especially since either may mean that no publishing company will want to work with them.)

Self-publishing isn't for everyone, but you need to at least know what you're giving up when you go with a publishing company and need to know what to look for before you sign a contract. It's perfectly legal for a company to present you with a contract that says they own your book and can pay you peanuts on it, they own your characters and you can't write them again without their permission, they own your world and you can't write in it without their permission, they own the film/game/teeshirt/foreign translation/everything rights to your project and don't have to pay you another penny on it, and they even own the name you publish under. If you sign it, you're stuck with it for a minimum of... I think it's 30 years? And probably the contract will hold until 70 years after your death. So you could write the next Harry Potter and you and your family could live on Ramen because you didn't read your contract.

5) Before you go for any publishing options, fiction-sharing is a great idea! Sites like Wattpad for original works and fanfiction sites for, y'know, fanfiction are great learning tools. You can get feedback from people and find out what does and doesn't work. And you can even build a following that way. :) (I used to write fanfiction years and years ago. I do not have a built-in following. A built-in following isn't necessary, though. It just takes longer to build.)

And. Uhm..... Yeah. xD Always happy to help as much as I can. But I'll shut up now. >_>

That is a ton of good information, thank you!

I used to write in high school and early college, but I had a falling out with my pen (so to speak) and decided to focus on my studies until I was done with my degree (in literature). Now that I'm done though, I'm so out of practice that I've been having a hard time getting back into it. I can come up with characters and settings pretty easily, but get stuck on plot ideas. I've studied the stuff about creating conflict and the rising-action shape of stories and all that, but knowing what shape my story could/should have doesn't really help me fill in the details. Then again, I'm probably giving myself too much of a hard time. I know that you have to have a shitty first draft in order to have a slightly less shitty second draft, but I'm usually too anxious to write anything at all.

I've been reading a ton this year, and for a while I was compulsively buying romance novels at the thrift stores, so I've been reading a bunch of those too. At first I was picking them based on how racy and dramatic the covers were (the more racy the better, imo), so some of the firsts ones I read were truly terrible books. That was instructive though, since it showed me quite clearly what I didn't want to do in my own work; now I need to read some better ones to get more ideas of what I do want to do in my stories.

I was watching the latest season of Doctor Who last night and feeling rage against Moffat, which got me inspired to write something, so I started digging around in my writing folder. I won NaNoWriMo several years ago and I started rereading my draft, and it was like reading it for the first time! I mean, it was obviously my work and I can vividly remember the writing experience, but I'd almost totally forgotten the content of what I'd written. It was kinda exciting, and now I'm all pumped to rewrite it. So yeah, some breakthough on the writer's block front, yay! (Thanks Moffat! Hating your work made me want to write again!)

---------- Post added 11-16-2014 at 01:26 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Cardinal Biggles

Maybe a sexy Troubadour instead of a jester? There's precedent there as far as going on a quest. Ha, even Monty Python and the Holy Grail had mistrals on the quest. Though they did get eaten. Oh, spoilers, sorry!

Re: Watson and Holmes shipping: It';s the bane of my existence on tumblr xD mostly because it's tonedeaf. I do agree that the BBC version has gone past the point of no return by the third series, but I saw that is pure queer baiting, especially in view of the comments made by the creators and cast (Moffit says Holmes is straight/Cumberbatch says holmes is straight/The character of Watson actually shouts "I'm not gay!" at one point, etc) (Holmes actually reads as more asexual to me, but they've nixed that too)
I can understand why many people read Holmes and Watson as a couple at first blush, but I've never done so for two reasons: One, I believe that friendship can be complex and nuanced, and two, my understanding of victorian behavioral standards. When it comes to the cannon, the latter plays in very strongly for me because Doyle's stories were never "detective stories" to me. They were"victorian stories about a detective and his cases". The victorian informs almost everything in them, especially the conduct and mores of it. And so it's present in every interaction. I do believe that individuals with a strong understanding of victorian gay culture can contribute to the discussion in a lot of meaningful ways (for instance, the presence of visits to turkish baths in the stories and the modern understanding that these were a meeting place for gay men at the time), though we can't be sure of Doyle's knowledge of this underworld to say it's anything definitive.
I've never had any inclination to ship the two, not even when you have a gender bent character, like in Elementary. They are one of the greatest literary examples of friendship for me. But I can understand why people have the impulse. It's just the rabid, hormonal sort of shipping that makes me so tired (see my previous comment about tumblr)

Heh, yeah. I like Sherlock, but I never got into the fandom, in part because I'm not a Sherlock/Holmes shipper. As you say, I can see why people like it, but dude, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes two guys in a friendship are actually just in a friendship. I mean, I have enjoyed some fanart of the pairing, but mostly because them guys are sexy. Although to be fair, I ship some way-not-canon pairings in other fandoms, so I'm not one to judge.

I've discovered I'm not very imaginative that way. I do tend to go for pairings that are at least hinted at as potential in any given story. Usually one character pining for another. Though, in the vein of me not feeling any of the potential matches in BBC sherlock, I couldn't even get behind MollyxSherlock. They just felt too distant from each other/wouldn't fit. I feel sorry for her, not a rah-rah sentiment.
I actually contributed to a tumblr survey on Holmesian opinions, just because I wanted a platform to be a dissenting voice, ha. It seems like the majority of the respondents believe in something called the Johnlock Conspiracy, with states that holmesxwatson is the "endgame" of Holmes stories. This is an actual real thing that is out there. I am baffled.

Originally Posted by Cardinal Biggles

Maybe a sexy Troubadour instead of a jester? There's precedent there as far as going on a quest. Ha, even Monty Python and the Holy Grail had mistrals on the quest. Though they did get eaten. Oh, spoilers, sorry!

No worries there. xD I've got that on dvd. 8D (Though I haven't watched it in awhile. Hmm.)

Let's see.... For the game idea I'm referencing, I used the Story Dice ap I have on my Kindle because I was in the tub and wanted something to puzzle over while I soaked a headache away. So the character concepts are all based on the dice icons.

I currently have:
- A young king (Golden Boy type - his dice was the crown.)
- his retainer/servant (his dice was a dog, but I'm thinking hunting dog in personality. intense and loyal)
- the magician (his dice was a cloud, so he's gentle and not tied to anyone)
- the dragon (dice was... a dragon xD - arrogant and spoiled)
- the knight/martial artist (sort of the sporty-prince type if this were a HS story. friendly and active)

EDIT: Just realized that my Shadow King is actually in another fantasy game idea I had at about the same time. Oops.

Absolutely room for a troubadour. Especially as an unlockable character. 8D Someone really colorful would be fun to design.

Re: Watson and Holmes shipping: It';s the bane of my existence on tumblr xD

Hahhaa. xD Yeah. I avoid the fandom on Tumblr. It does irritate me that literally everything is a secret "I love you". I'm totally happy with them being good friends. (I think for me it might mostly just be I enjoy people seeing them as a couple and Sherlock not even acknowledging it and Watson to the point of just resigned exasperation. I am a cruel person and think it's funny.)

I suppose I'm weird, though. I don't see them "together" on the show and I can't imagine them getting busy in the bedroom. I think it's more they have really excellent chemistry but something would intrinsically have to change in each of them before they'd either see each other that way. I'd say, "It's complicated!" but then I'd feel stereotypically Tumblr. xD

SO. In short, "I don't see them as a couple now and am cool if they never get together. I just prefer they breathe the same air." It does make me a sad panda that Watson has his own family - not because I think he shouldn't have one/resent his family or anything, just they wouldn't breathe the same air as much! If this makes sense at all. ._. (It's easier for them to be around each other if they're a couple, so it's easier to say, "I ship them.")

Originally Posted by Chexala

As for the MC, well, it depends on the game probably.

The Shall We Date? one that drove me up the wall was.... I think the first Ninja game. It has some really lovely heroes, though. There's another one that is something to do with fairytales. The heroes are gender-swapped Snow White, Cinderella, Thumbelina, and the Little Mermaid, I think. In that game, I pursue the borderline abusive Cinderella and it's somewhere between hilarious and adorable, but she's still dumb enough sometimes to make me roll my eyes at her. xD

In fact, in their newest game The Niflheim, the MC is pretty rad. Generous, caring, self-aware, pretty direct about her feelings, very active in the story, but also laid back and able to roll with the punches.

I might have to check that one out next time I borrow the iPad. xD

Also, her tutor is this skeleton guy, and he is hilarious. This is his introduction and it only get's better from there. From what I can tell, pretty much everyone is waiting eagerly for him to become a datable character. (Me included.)

LOL. I hope he does. xD He's got the whole dotty professor vibe going for him. xD (And from the screenshots, I sort of get the impression it's an act and he's kind of joking. But it's hard to take someone completely seriously who's always grinning. 8D )

I used to write in high school and early college, but I had a falling out with my pen (so to speak) and decided to focus on my studies until I was done with my degree (in literature). Now that I'm done though, I'm so out of practice that I've been having a hard time getting back into it. I can come up with characters and settings pretty easily, but get stuck on plot ideas. I've studied the stuff about creating conflict and the rising-action shape of stories and all that, but knowing what shape my story could/should have doesn't really help me fill in the details. Then again, I'm probably giving myself too much of a hard time. I know that you have to have a shitty first draft in order to have a slightly less shitty second draft, but I'm usually too anxious to write anything at all.

Yeah. My thing was I learned how hard it was to break into publishing and was like, "Okay. I'll gain more life experiences and learn and get a Real Job first." When I decided I'd go ahead and take writing seriously, I hadn't been writing much and I found myself writing at a MUCH slower pace than I used to and sort of tripping over my own feet a little at first.

Don't be too hard on yourself, though. The sort of things you're talking about are things I worry about too. I can look at that sort of stuff and go, "Okay. I get it.... ...no wait, how do I do this?" Several of the books I mentioned gave me a muuuch better idea of what to do (Koontz, Lisle and Buckham especially) and studying the hero's journey is giving me interesting insights. What I'm sort of focusing on right now are telling shorter stories so I can gain practice and confidence that I've got a handle on what I'm doing.

For plots, there are books out there that give you sort of prompts to write for. (Koontz's book soooort of does it, but not really.) You might also appreciate hunting down George Polti's "The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations". I think this is the breakdown that made the most sense to me. I think I have three different pdfs on my Kindle that go over them: http://www.gegniafilm.com/uploads/5/...rges_polti.pdf They're a basic framework for stories. There are others who have shorter or longer lists of "the only plots in the world", but these are the ones that resonate with me best. But the basic idea of these is to identify the structure of stories to help you tell your own.

some of the firsts ones I read were truly terrible books. That was instructive though, since it showed me quite clearly what I didn't want to do in my own work; now I need to read some better ones to get more ideas of what I do want to do in my stories.

Exactly. xD Every book you read is a learning tool - if you can be bothered. I have a lot more DNF (did not finish) books than I used to. Don't have the time to read something I'm not enjoying - though in rare cases I'll read just to understand what the fuss is about.

I started rereading my draft, and it was like reading it for the first time! I mean, it was obviously my work and I can vividly remember the writing experience, but I'd almost totally forgotten the content of what I'd written. It was kinda exciting, and now I'm all pumped to rewrite it.

LOL. Yes. I've run across that several times. Even with some of my recent romances. @_@ It's like an out of body experience. At least when I read something I've written and don't really remember what I wrote, I don't feel as guilty for laughing when I read it.

Although to be fair, I ship some way-not-canon pairings in other fandoms, so I'm not one to judge.

8D Good.

I'm kinda that way (small voice) with Nalin and Cain. I know they're never getting together and I'm fine with it. But I can't help pairing them in my head, even though I know it's wrong in all the things!

Originally Posted by Cardinal Biggles

I couldn't even get behind MollyxSherlock. They just felt too distant from each other/wouldn't fit. I feel sorry for her, not a rah-rah sentiment.

Yeah. I'm glad she ended up with someone she's happy with... Though it amuses and saddens me that he's so much like Sherlock. It's sweet and sad at the same time.

I'm not sure how I feel about SherlockxIrene. It's clear they feel very intensely about each other, but she'd encourage all the wrong things in Sherlock. At least she wouldn't have an issue with his closeness with Watson, though.

It seems like the majority of the respondents believe in something called the Johnlock Conspiracy, with states that holmesxwatson is the "endgame" of Holmes stories. This is an actual real thing that is out there. I am baffled.

Erruhg... o_o I mean, I guess that's possible? I just find it highly unlikely. Not in a traditional relationship way, anyway.

Re the Johnlock Conspiracy: It just seems... like gollum and the ring-like. MY PRECIOUS.
Ah, I haven't been very good about expressing myself in this thread. My thought are all over the place!

Don't worry about it, Biggles. xD I know mine have been!

Reviving thread to let you know there's lots of Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals for VN stuff!

For example, on Steam, loads of games are on discount. I picked up Pyrite Heart. (I hope it's good, but it's cheap if it's not.) Trying to decide how spendy I am, since a lot of Winter Wolves games are 50% off (both on Steam and on their website).

Voltage is also having sales. You can find more out about them here: Voltage Romance (I don't play the games myself, so I'm not sure how great of deals they are!)

Dang, I could have gotten the Steam version of Long Live the Queen for the same price I paid on GOG. xD Oh well. I need to play that once things settle down with people being sick.

It happens, doesn't it? xD; I always wring my hands when it happens. (Usually for me, I find out I could have paid less if I waited. ._. )

Yay sales! I'm planning to get a bunch of Winter Wolves Games tomorrow. (I never shop on Black Friday. I just...refuse to participate in that. Not above Cyber Monday though, lol.)

I'll definitely have to check out what sales Voltage is having, since there are some routes I've been wanting to get. And maybe some of the games on my Steam wishlist will be on sale, gotta check for that too. :D

I don't mind shopping on Black Friday... provided it's done online. 8D

I keep looking at those Winter Wolves games and waffling. I think I can play demo versions of some of them, so I miiight take some time tonight to try it.

I think all the games have free demos?

I don't live somewhere where Black Friday is a big deal anyway, but not shopping is my tiny way of protesting capitalism, for a moment. If I do shop, I try to shop local at least. <shrug>

lol. Capitalism, ho! (As they say in Rectear.) It's the only sane way to live, imho. ;) In spite of what my spending so much time on Menewsha might lead people to believe, I don't work for free! 8D (I think I mentally qualify the time here as, "a hobby"...) I do agree, though, that the crass bean counting corporate culture stuff is gross, though.

They probably do all have free demos. xD ugh. I just cringe at downloading it from their site (I can't remember if they have demos up on Steam or not). For some reason, I can never feel comfortable downloading from them. Their site screams "danger!" to me. I know they're legit and all, but the web design sends up red flags for me. Wish I could articulate why!

As an aside, I found "Cinderella Contract" on Kindle. Working my way through their Champagne event right now. I've finished Prince Cyril's champagne route and have started in on Isuka's. Last event (the fruit one), I got up into the 20-somethingth place and got lots of goodies, so I'm hoping I can place well in this one too.

At least I can seriously say I hate games of this format. D< It gets so frustrating not wanting to spend 5-10 bucks to get a dress. After Mene, it makes me want to vomit blood. xD Cinderella Contract will probably be the only "incremental" VN I ever play. But I guess I'm learning so I don't feel too much like a sucker for playing.

Haha, yes, there is something vaguely sketchy seeming about Winter Wolves's site. They've gotten better over time though, it used to be worse. lol

And yes, the freemium games can be super frustrating. The dress-up systems may as well not exist, as far as I'm concerned; they've got nothing on Mene's items, so they're not going to get any money from me there. Buuuut, Shall We Date? has some very cute guys, so I play for their stories and their cute blush faces. (Seeing a guy's blush face for the first time is always exciting to me. :3 )

I know what you mean about that. xD I squeed a bit the first time I saw Cyril's blush face. He's a total tsundere and has resting bitchface going for him. (Y'know... he has that sharp, pissed off look all the time.) So seeing the blush makes me laugh.

I just wish I could.... y'know... provoke it properly. The different choices in the game only really determine how many points you earn with the bachelors. I completely understand that it'd be rather difficult to make so many different changes in the routes when you multiply it across 8+ bachelors (Cinderella Contract currently has 8, unless I'm missing any), but... Meh - it's one of the reasons I'm not really sold on freemium games.

What about the other cell phone games you play? Do they have branching routes?

Right now, I'm only playing Voltage (their translated Japanese ones, not the Americanized ones) and Shall We Date games on my tablet/phone. Neither of them really have branching stories to speak of. I gone through some Voltage chapters multiple times, to try all the choices, and they don't actually make any difference to the story at all, it just determines whether you get the "happy/good" ending, or the "super happy" ending. (rofl at super happy.)

I was complaining to one of my friends about this and she agreed, and that's when we decided we should write our own. We did some brainstorming about plot, MC, and two initial love interests, but both got distracted by school and haven't picked it up again. Someday though.

Hurry, quick - got any "on sale today" recommendations for me? (Doesn't need to be Steam.)

I'm about to grab Long Live the Queen on Steam. Also looking at Analogue: a Hate Story (3ish bucks).

Will probably get A New Beginning - Final Cut and Dysfunctional Systems: Learning to Manage Chaos just because they look neat and are also 3ish bucks. :)

Cinders is a few dollars off today but not cheap enough to make me leap for it, yet.

Thanks in advance for any deal recs.

I would suggest picking up portal 1 and portal 2! While not visual novels, they're both really good and dirt cheap.

Originally Posted by Chexala

Right now, I'm only playing Voltage (their translated Japanese ones, not the Americanized ones) and Shall We Date games on my tablet/phone. Neither of them really have branching stories to speak of. I gone through some Voltage chapters multiple times, to try all the choices, and they don't actually make any difference to the story at all, it just determines whether you get the "happy/good" ending, or the "super happy" ending. (rofl at super happy.)

Yeah. I mean, it's great that they have some degree of "either/or"... Like, I think the Ninja SWD? game I played had a choice between a "hot" vs "sweet" ending and you could see if you were on track for the kind of ending you wanted. And with Cinderella Contract, you have a fake marriage with a prince, but there's an alternate bachelor you can win over too. Like, in the romance track I'm on, I'm caught up between Prince Cyril, and his father, Prince Maynard. Depending on how I respond, I'll earn points with either of the bachelors, though the story seems to be exactly the same regardless.

But having even ONE branch would be nice. Like, with my current story, it'd be easy to have a tragic ending by picking the wrong things. Except, I guess, they don't want you to get upset and stop spending money on them.... u_u;

I was complaining to one of my friends about this and she agreed, and that's when we decided we should write our own. We did some brainstorming about plot, MC, and two initial love interests, but both got distracted by school and haven't picked it up again. Someday though.

I highly recommend doing a flow chart when you get going again. xD It's already made it so much easier for me to "see" what I'm doing and follow the logical progression of story, so I don't get confused and accidentally do call backs to parts of the story that you don't experience if you don't go down an optional branch.

Originally Posted by BellyButton

Hurry, quick - got any "on sale today" recommendations for me? (Doesn't need to be Steam.)

I'm about to grab Long Live the Queen on Steam. Also looking at Analogue: a Hate Story (3ish bucks).

Will probably get A New Beginning - Final Cut and Dysfunctional Systems: Learning to Manage Chaos just because they look neat and are also 3ish bucks. :)

Cinders is a few dollars off today but not cheap enough to make me leap for it, yet.

Thanks in advance for any deal recs.

I saw from chat you already got and are enjoying yourself with Long Live the Queen. xD

I hear a lot of good things about Analogue: A Hate Story. There's a free prequel that goes with it: Digital: A Love Story I've seen it played before and tried playing it myself. It's very clever and interesting, but since I got super frustrated playing the prequel myself, I'm not interested in picking up Analogue. I'd say trust your instincts on it and/or try playing Digital first.

If you're kinda into card games/board games + visual novels.... What about "Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble"? This is one of the games in my library and it's rather fun. I got it in a Humble Bundle, I think. And it's basically about girls in the 1920s who are trying to solve a mystery and grow up. They're rather misfits in one way or another.

I got Redshirt on sale (since it's a life sim, so it's not really a VN but in the same ballpark) and am a little disappointed in it. You spend a crapton of time on space Facebook and people get obsessive and weird if you don't socialize with them every other day or whatever. Needy space freaks. The parts that are fun are really fun, but the neediness of the other characters pisses me off. And I'm still mad because my boyfriend, my favorite boss, and my best friend all got vaporized on an away team mission. >:C

The Cherry Tree games are really cheap right now. Especially in the sense of if you buy the bundle, you get both for 7.99. I enjoyed what I've played of the first one so far! It's silly.

Everything else I don't know enough about to recommend/not.

(Though I will once again express my dislike of Magical Diary. I resent very much them turning a cool character into an emotionally manipulative bastard once you turn him down for a relationship.)

I tried another voltage game and keeps crashing. I've tried all the things customer service recomended, and I just can't get it in order. They said it was a newer type of format, and it needed faster internet. Luckily (or so I thought) it corresponded with my internet provider sending out a new modem for better service. Still no luck. Bunner, dude.