Meatless
The thread for Vegetarians, Vegans, Pescatarians, and the curious

Meat is a big part of most cultures around the world, but there are some of us who choose to go without. Some do it for health reasons, other for conservation, others for religious purposes, and some for moral reasons. Whether you abstain from any animal-based product, try to avoid it where you can, or are just curious to learn more about a meat-free lifestyle, here's a thread where you can ask questions, share recipes, and chat with other like-minded folk!

A Reminder on Courtesy

Eating meat is still a norm in most cultures. Most people grow up with it being a normal and accepted thing to do. Some don't question it, and others do and find they're fine with it. Regardless of how you feel, treat everyone with kindness and respect. Do not be mean to those who eat all meats, to pescatarians for eating fish, or to vegetarians for eating eggs.

Likewise, be kind to those with "stricter" diets than you. If you eat meat, please do not enter this thread with the intention of "teaching us better." If you're a pescatarian or a vegetarian, be nice to the vegans. It takes a lot of hard work to keep up that lifestyle and they face even more challenges than you do!

Militant or argumentative attitudes will not be tolerated. If you suspect someone is just out to rile feathers, ignore them.

Welcome Pack
A bit of info for those curious about the lifestyle

A quick overview of the labels. These descriptions are in no way full representations of the lifestyle, and everyone has their own unique spin on how they choose to live. This is merely a basic guideline for those who are curious.

Vegan: Someone who does not consume or use any product that has come from an animal, regardless of whether or not the animal was killed to get the item. In addition to meat, a vegan would not consume dairy, eggs, or use animal products such as feathers.
Vegetarian: Someone who does not eat meat. Some vegetarians are okay with other products that come from deceased animals, such as broths or fur, while others will use nothing that an animal has died for. Some consume products such as dairy and eggs, others do not.
Pescatarian: Someone who does not eat meat but does eat fish. For some, this extends to other seafood such as shrimp or crabs. Whether they will eat other land-based animal products that are not meat (such as dairy or broths) varies.

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What Not to Say
To a Vegan/Vegetarian/Pescatarian

In this thread, I would like you to feel free to ask whatever questions you may have. However, people who lead these lifestyles tend to hear the same things a lot, and it gets very tiring. These things are usually said right after we say "I'm vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian." Should you meet someone somewhere else who tells you they lead a meatless life, try to avoid saying these things. I've included a description of why these statements are problematic.

"Oh, I could never do that!"
Usually said right after "Sorry, I'm a [vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian]." The reason this is annoying is that it's very defensive. No one has asked you to be meatless, calm down. This is not an overly offensive reply, but it's probably the #1 thing meatless folk hear. We really don't like that everyone gets super defensive after we share something about our lifestyles! We're just letting you know that we can't eat meat, we're not attacking you. "I'm religious." "Oh, I could never do that!" See how weird it is now?

"I knew a [vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian] who..."
This story usually goes on to describe a very militant or judgmental meatless person who was rude. We're sorry you had such a negative experience, but what you're telling us by sharing this story right after we tell you about our lifestyle is actually "I met someone mean once, and since you share a characteristic with them, I'm immediately assuming that you're going to be like them to. If you're not, you personally must atone for the way they hurt my feelings." Stop. That has nothing to do with us. If you're a man with brown hair, well, I've met men with brown hair before that were jerks! But that's got nothing to do with you and I'm not going to bring it up when you start talking about your hair.

"How do you get protein/iron?"
Let me address the question first directly and tell you that meat is not the only thing with iron and protein in it. Now let me address why this question is so annoying. Unless we adopted this meatless lifestyle yesterday, it's safe to assume we've been doing this for a while. We know how to take care of ourselves. Maybe that means taking a supplement, or maybe it means eating a lot of eggs and leafy greens. Unless you've observed our eating habits regularly and really have cause for concern, just assume we're alright, okay? Think of it this way: a lot of (meat-eating) people don't get all the vitamins and nutrients they need. How often do you ask them if they're getting enough vitamin C/fiber/folic acid? You probably don't. You probably assume they've got that under control or at least that it's their own business. Please afford us the same treatment.

"You'll grow out of it."
Do I even need to explain how patronizing and rude this one is? If you don't get it, take some aspect of your own lifestyle and stick it in there instead. Maybe it's your religion, your passion, your morals. Now pretend someone is telling you that you'll "grow out of it." Ouch, right? People change their minds about all sorts of things, it's part of growing as a person and exploring who you are. Just because you have known people who adopted a meatless lifestyle to later give it up does not mean that it will be so for other people. Lots of folk adopt a meatless life and continue it on until the day they die.

"But humans were made to eat meat!"
Yes, we were! And it was so crucial to our survival as a species, we're very glad that we have that survival trait! But nowadays we don't need to eat meat to survive. It's not a matter of going out and killing a sabre tooth vs. starving. We can get all the food and nutrients we need through other means now without having to kill any living animals. Hooray for agriculture!

"But plants are alive!"
Plants don't think. Plants don't feel emotions. Plants don't remember. Plants don't feel pain. Plants don't have personalities. Plants have no consciousness. Don't be a smartass.

"I bet that thing you're eating right now has some animal product in it!"
This one is just mean. What you are saying is "I don't think you're competent enough to lead the lifestyle you claim to lead, silly person. You're destined to fail, and I think that's funny." This also goes along with the sudden quizzing. "Did you know that [common product] is made from cow hide? And [other common product] is made from cows' fur?" Again, that is assuming we don't know these things already and that we're destined for failure. What's worse is that it's often said with a sadistic tone, like you want us to unknowingly use/consume a product we are morally opposed to. Why would you want that?

So what do you say to a meatless person? Anything you'd say to anyone else! We don't want to be treated like we're different. We're just people like you. Maybe you don't eat cake, but no one acts differently around you for it, right?

If you're cooking a meal that a meatless person will be eating, one good thing you can say is "is this okay for you to eat?" Eating meals prepared by meat-eating people is a minefield for us. Even if you don't put meat into the dish, there are a lot of animals products sneakily hidden in all sorts of pre-packaged stuff that you might not even be aware of. Just a few weeks ago I had a pastaroni dish at my boyfriend's house. Nowhere on the front of the box did it say it was meat-flavored. Just "herb and butter pasta" or something to that effect. Later I found out that one of the ingredients listed on the box was chicken broth. D'oh! If you really want to make sure a meatless person is comfortable eating your dishes, save the packages the ingredients came in and let them give a quick scan of the ingredients list. It's also good to check how they feel about dairy products and the like, if you don't already know. Trust me, we really appreciate it! You would do the same for someone with a food allergy.

Recipes
Mmmmmmm...

I'm done setting up the thread now. Let the replies commence!

I saw this thing on TV a few years ago, that was saying that our digestive system actually isn't designed for meat. It said carnivores have a short intestine, and because of the length of ours meat hangs around and causes problems. Interesting!

As a species of ape, we'd not have been meat eaters originally, would we, I guess we became omnivores over the millenia, particularly once we'd discovered fire I expect.

I have heard that, now that you mention it! I just didn't want to include it without being more knowledgeable on the subject. At the very least we're capable of eating meat. I mean, clearly. And I think that's the argument people try to make? "We can, therefore we must." *shrug* Beats me if I understand that logic.

If a kid tries to get clever and use that as a reason for why he must eat all the bacon in the house, a wily mother will use the same arguement for why he must clean his room

I could get pregnant every ten months or so, but I'm not going to. But you know there are probably some people who think fertile women should!

I hadn't heard of the term pescatarian before reading this thread...I've met people who claim that they eat vegetarian once a week, and then they'd say they'd eat fish on that day...now I know that what they actually meant was pescatarian.

I'm a curious omnivore myself.

I've heard that there have been fertile women who've never had a period because they've gotten pregnant every time they could..O_O

Glad I could teach you a new word! The term "pescatarian" doesn't seem to be nearly as widely known as the actual concept of pescatarianism. I've known a few pescatarians who called them vegetarians. When I first stopped eating meat I started with pescatarianism. When I told my mom "I'm pescatarian now," she thought I was talking about a religion! She was thinking of Pentecostal...

Ooh gosh, I hope that was an exaggeration or myth that you heard. That's crazy harsh on your body!

I've never felt the need to breed just because I could. As a human we're doing the world a favour by not breeding


I'll admit that I feel quite a bit of frustration towards people who call any dish that doesn't have meat in it vegetarian. Are we meant to call any dish with meat in it omnivorous? It's all a bit rediculous.

I love chick peas Nothing much else to say right now, I just do xD

Well, "omnivorous" is pretty much the default, isn't it? If it doesn't say that, you still kind of assume it is. Now a "vegetarian" label would be pretty silly on something that was clearly vegetarian already, like a side of green beans, but it's pretty damn helpful when it's applied to something that you would otherwise assume is meaty, like tacos. I know labels like that make eating out a hell of a lot easier for me, so I don't have to read through the ingredients of every single dish to try to find if there's meat in it or not. Plus it gives fair warning to those who hate anything that doesn't have meat in it - and I know a lot of people like that.

I guess I mean people calling stuff vegetarian needlessly is pretentious, like bragging about making a vegetarian meal when it's really just a meal without meat in it. Most people probably eat a lot more meat-free meals than they really realise. (mac 'n' cheese for example), (Though I realise meat-free doesn't necessarily mean vegetarian). It seems to be labelling stuff just for the sake of labels, which is a human habit I don't like one little bit. I'm quite sure I'm not explaining my thoughts clearly at all here ><

Hmm, I guess I tend to subconsciously think of "vegetarian" dishes as those that would traditionally have had meat in them, and the meat had been replaced with an alternative. Otherwise, I don't differentiate between dishes in that way. Whether something has meat in it or not doesn't affect the way I categorise it. I think of things by the meals they are eaten as. Interesting, never realised that before :O

Oh yeah, saying "vegetarian mac n' cheese" would be really silly. Though honestly I don't see much/any of that. What I see more often is labeling things vegan, which is an incredibly important distinction given how strict veganism is compared to vegetarianism. Vegan mac n' cheese would be totally different from standard mac n' cheese given that vegans can't have dairy. So I'd never begrudge anyone a "vegan" label! Unless it was, I don't know, on a bag of carrots or something.

Annie's Homegrown has a version of kraft mac and cheese that's veggie.
IT IS TIME:
How to Make Your Very Own Delicious Thanksgiving Unturkey
Although personally, I enjoy tofurky, as well as a fieldroast celebration roast.

You realize your fifth post invited me to trash this place with pinterest recipes, right? Not that I will... I don't even know why I'm pinning so many vegan and anti-allergy foods considering I have troubles with neither, though I did see a girl get thoroughly verbally b*tchslapped for continually posting things in the non-allergen board without listing what allergies do and do not exist in the foods.

Some of these things look so good, though!

Question for the Vegans in the room: Don't some of the ingredients you guys eat creep you out? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but due to the lack of natural ingredients I feel like I see a lot of words that would befit a chemical mixture.

And, because I love food in general and will eat almost anything, I have officially subscribed to about a dozen meatless boards, as well as a few paleo, and here is something fantastic I've found!

Easy vegan brownies made with simple ingredients. Chocolatey, rich and so satisfying.
Serves: 8

Ingredients
1/2 cup (1 stick) non-dairy butter (such as Earth Balance)
3/4 cup natural cane or granulated sugar
2 large flax eggs (2 tbsp flaxseed + 6 Tbsp water)
1 tsp vanilla extract
3/4 tsp baking powder
1/4 tsp sea salt
1/2 cup dutch-process cocoa powder
3/4 cup unbleached all purpose flour
(Optional add-ins:) 1/3 cup walnuts, hazelnuts or chocolate chips

Instructions
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F and spray 7-8 standard-sized muffin tins with cooking spray. Alternatively, fit each with a paper liner.
Prepare flax eggs in a small bowl and let rest for 5 minutes.
Place butter in a large mixing bowl and melt in the microwave. Then stir in the flax egg, sugar, vanilla, baking powder, salt and cocoa powder. Whisk to combine. Lastly, add the flour, then fold in any mix-ins – chocolate chips or walnuts would be excellent here.
Scoop batter evenly into 7-8 muffin tins until 3/4 full and bake on the middle rack for 22-26 minutes, or until the brownies start to pull away from the sides and they spring back slightly to the touch. Be careful not to overcook or they will get crumbly. Remove from oven and let rest in the tin for 5 minutes before removing to cool completely on a plate or cooling rack.
Store in an airtight container to keep fresh for a couple days. Freeze for long-term storage.

Nutrition Information
Serving size: 1 brownie Calories: 237 Fat: 12 g Saturated fat: 3.5 g Carbohydrates: 30 g Sugar: 18 g Sodium: 161 mg Fiber: 2.5 g Protein: 2.7 g

I chose a vegan recipe I've been eyeing because I'm lazy and about to make boxed brownies. If anyone makes them before me YOU MUST GIVE DETAILS. I've never made a vegan egg before D:

/pokes head in/
I see it's a bit quiet here ehehe!
Vegan here, well for the past four months.
For 9 years before that, I had given up all red meat (pigs, cows, etc - anything besides poultry & seafood) which isn't a real form of meatlessness, but still. ^o^

Anyway! If there's any other vegans around...
Have you had Amy's vegan Mac & Cheese OMG it's so friggin gooood.
This right here:



I'm hoping to make a few things to bring with for Easter dinner to impress the non-vegans. So far, I'm planning on making rice krispie treats madewith vegan marshmallows
and a cold pasta salad (something like this probably).
I wanted to do one more dish... But it has to be a cold dish because we'll be all over in the morning before we go to the dinner.
Any ideas? c;

I forgot I made this.

Mmmmm, vegan marshmallows... I miss marshmallows! Although I actually had a bit of one recently. We were sampling these mallow-topped cookies at work, and I read the ingredients list at least three times and was totally shocked to see there was no gelatin! They weren't advertised as vegan and weren't from any sort of fancy brand, so I suppose it was coincidental. Mmm, cookie.

Hmm, if you can find a recipe for a vegan tzatziki sauce, how about that with some falafel? Tzatziki is so springy and refreshing, but the standard recipe uses yogurt. Surely there's some way to make it with soy or something, though! Maybe a really, really loose tofu. Or if falafel is too main-dishy, you could dry dicing it and making some sort of falafel salad with the tzatziki? Or just chickpeas, I suppose.

I've tried going to vegetarian many, many times.
The longest I went, was about five months.
It's too expensive for me, and I have a hard time cooking tofu.
D:
I'm a terrible person.

I have much respect for people who follow the vegetarian/vegan/pescatarian lifestyle~!
My cousin was a pescatarian...not sure if she still is...
She said something about meat giving her allergic reactions?
So maybe she still is.

Vegetarianism is really only as expensive as you make it. The meat substitutes like tofu and boca and stuff are what make it so pricey. Just stick with eggs, frozen veggies, and staples like rice and pasta and it ends up cheaper since meat is so expensive. Veggie stir fries and soups are pretty affordable. Especially if you buy from cheap places like Aldi, or stock up when there are sales.

Veganism can make it a little trickier, but I have no tips for that as I've never been vegan.

There's no Aldi's around here, but I wish.
xD

The local shop around here is expensive as hell.
I work there.
xD

I prefer Walmart for staples, and go to the local shop for fresh produce and meat.
Although, everyone in this house is a meat eater, and I have bland tastes...
Maybe I should just go vegetarian one final time.
My younger cousin recently went vegetarian, so I should support her as well~

I could probably be a vegetarian. Lately I've only had or eaten meat if I've gone out of my way to get it. Right now it's mainly just a way to get protein without having to research veggies and plan meals. Meat is very simple to cook and I love it for that. Would it count as vegetarian if I just had broth? Just a splash here and there, or a bullion cube.

@Cherry
Haha, I gave it CPR and shoved it back into life! ^o^

Those marshmallows are AMAZING.
Just freaking awesome. I love them. They have a better taste than normal marshmallows, in my opinion! I'm surprised you found some "accidentally vegan" marshmallows! That's awesome though. A lot of vegan stuff doesn't get advertised as vegan, I think some companies even worry they might drive off non-vegans who are like "EW IS IT MADE OF TOFU?" (I swear, everyone I know asks if literally everything vegan I eat is "made of tofu") ~_~;

I ended up with just the pasta salad and treats for Easter. But everyone liked it! And they were uber supportive and didn't dump butter on the veggies and even got some Earth Balance and made vegan mashed potatoes! :D
I think I will look into some falafel recipes though... That sounds good! c:

You mentioned eggs too... Are eggs considered vegetarian? I never figured they were. ;o

@PiM!
Expensive, really?
I've been buying all the groceries for myself & my boyfriend & whatever guests we may have had for the past three and a half years and being vegan has definitely been the cheapest! We even splurge on some of the fancy stuff like the Amys Mac & Cheese sometimes but my bill is about 25-50$ cheaper each week than it was before.

I think tofu might be a practice makes perfect type of food when it comes to cooking it haha! And I think it depends on what you like. I only like super duper firm tofu and I like it cubed for salads and pastas, but don't really dig it otherwise. XD I cook the crap out of it too. :3

Wow being allergic to meat? That sounds sucky.. But... Pescetarians still eat meat? Because seafood is meat, I mean it's not a vegetable.
I donno, that's really confusing! XD

Let us know how it goes if you decide to try vegetarianism again!
I'll root for you! :D

@Alexander
Try it out! You might like it. c:
Honestly, there's protein in like everything. So much protein, just everywhere. Especially if you like nuts, beans and mushrooms. But most vegetables have at least some protein. And if you still eat dairy, you don't even have to think about it. Milks and cheeses have tons of protein.

Anyways, most broths do have meat products in them. Because they're made with the fat of the animal, or made using the meat of the animal.
But you could just use vegetable broth and vegetable bouillon? It tastes the same to me, especially if you normally use chicken flavors. [yes[

Thanks for making this thread Cherry! I may eat meat myself, but I find it very educational to read what everyone has been posting here. There are some things that raise questions (such as dairy-less dairy products), but tis my own ignorance which I plan on research later, maybe when I get home, you know, use it to not to auditing homework...

I just wanted to add something that [RFIM] was saying. When my boyfriend started working out, we learned that the human body doesn't actually require much protein as it is. It could be like what jelly said with us not really needing or being able to fully digest meat, but the usual amount of protein that people take in is typically just wasted throughout the day (smelly farts and such XP).