Well now! I have a topic that I would like to discuss with people!

Okay, so I was talking with my friend for awhile, then she all of a sudden stopped texting me. Well, after a couple days I went to church camp, I of course was still waiting for her to text me. 3 days into camp she texted me saying and I quote

Sorry I havent texted you for awhile i was at camp.

I replied asking how she was back already, because church camp lasts two weeks at her church, she replied

Somehow the camp conselers found out that i am bisexual and I got sent home.

At that moment I was very mad, what right do they have to send a kid home because of their sexual orientation? I don't know if I'm still a bit worked up or what, but I think that is really stupid.

Details: Don't get me wrong I am a Christian, some people say I'm not a real Christian because I don't persecute homosexual (and am bisexual myself(thank God I survived church camp))I agree, in the Bible it says that homosexuality is a sin, but back in those times being homosexual just meant that you slept with the same sex, just for sex. Now, gays actually feel love for the same sex, not just sexual attraction. Now, if you wish, you can reply to this blog thread telling me how you feel about all this, but please don't just tell me that same crap I hear all the time from SUPER-Christians I just want your views.
If God doesn't make mistakes, then God made me gay for a reason? This is a test, for them not us.

Tell me, why do you think they sent her home? It doesn't make sense to me. I went to her church with her after that and they made her go up to the front and 'confess' her sins, then of course she got real mad(so did I) and b*thchy and left.

(i'm speaking from a non-religious/extremely bisexual point of view)
sending her home was out of order, her sexuality doesn't make her any less of a christian. if god supposedly loves everyone he loves her as much as he does 'straight christians'.
christians supposedly accept everybody - but i see that as a load of crap in general, while there are some who accept queers more often than not they think its wrong. i think these campleaders or whatever they are need to be confronted and find out their particular reasoning for this. its not like you can get sent home from being straight so why should it be any different.

+Thank you for agreeing. I am at the moment forced not to go to church now because of that, but me and my friend are creating a little gathering of people(mostly kids) to talk openly about God and the Bible and not have to deal with people saying homosexuality is a sin.
+I know God doesn't make mistakes, and if I'm gay it's because that's what he wanted. What you wanted. And I think the challenge is to get everyone else to see that. This is their test, not mine.

but back in those times being homosexual just meant that you slept with the same sex, just for sex. Now, gays actually feel love for the same sex, not just sexual attraction.

I have to disagree, i would imagine that people still fell in love back in those days as well and wanted to be together. Not that it didnt stop christians from out right killing them or exiling them anyways.

As a former christian who lost his faith i have to say it was reasons like this that made me lose my belief in their god. Christianity is just a front for people to be bigots and racist in the name of god. Hell i have listened to old recorded sermons from the 50's and 60's where the preacher refered to rock as 'ni**er bop'.

Oh and my church threw my mother out of the congregation when i was younger for divorcing my father even though he spent all his time drinking and beating the hell out of her.

I am not surprised that your friend was thrown out of camp and i would be even less surprised if her parents didnt beat the crap out of her when she got home and they found out about it. No I dont think it was right but i know how these types act ....
but lets not turn this into a christian bashing thread, my opinion is of course it was, it was a horrible thing to do and the girl did nothing wrong by feeling how she feels, the only ones that need to confess for their sins are the ones that persecute her for being who she is.

Isn't that discrimination? What happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? I'm pretty sure your friend can file a lawsuit against them, depending on where she is. There's quite a few places that find termination due to sexual orientation as a crime.

Click & Click
You can find out if your state has protection from discrimination.

Anyway, my opinion on the matter is that they were wrong. Being homo/bi/pan/whatever sexual is not wrong. Why would god make it if it was wrong? Sure, it might not be the best thing to some people, but it's not hurting them, so why should they care? It's like with any other person, christian or not. The sad thing is, discrimination will always be there.

@Cap'n Tobias - the little gathering sounds like a good idea, being able to speak to people at the same level of understanding without the extra judging.

while i personally don't believe in god, if he truly exists then isn't it a part of 'his will' to create homosexuals? at the same time he has created homophobes. so wouldn't that mean he created this arguement and despite that has for a long surrounded people? hasn't god set this challenge himself?

I'm not sure why they would send her home, other than the fact that apparently, being bisexual is not a part of their ideal. Go figure. I don't know why they'd make a big deal over something so small and if I were her, I'd be mad too, having to go in front of the church and confess to sins that aren't really sins. You think God wouldn't care about something like sexual orientation, and I really doubt he does. So why a church is making a big deal about it, I don't know.

First of all, outright ignore anybody who tries to tell you or anybody else that you're no "real" Christian. Religion is about YOU and your GOD, and nobody has the right to speak in His name. No priest, no reverend, no pope, nobody.

As to quoting the bible, there's a couple of facts a lot of "hardcore" Christians seem to forget:

1. The bible is a book written by men. Not God himself, but men collecting stories back in their days, so don't take ANYTHING in there literally. Read between the lines, get an overall feeling for what Christianity is all about, but don't take any single quote as "this is the word of God".
2. A lot of the moral aspects of the bible are based on how society worked back THEN. During those times, for example, there was a high chance of a child dying before reaching adulthood, so reproduction was extremely important. Thus homosexuality actually hurt society, because two potential mothers/fathers went without children. Nowadays that's not a problem, so there's absolutely no reason for this ancient "rule" to still be active. This has nothing to do with what God thinks is right or wrong (who are we to claim we KNOW his plans?), it's just a matter of what helps or hurts society.
3. If we always took the bible literally, we would be walking around lashing our fellow humans left and right, breaking their necks, spitting in their faces - or, on the other hand, we would turn the other cheek to robbers, murderers, rapists and other lowlife.

Whatever parts of the bible you think valid and worth following through with is a matter of interpretation, but just don't let others make the interpretation for you. And, above all, don't let them spoil your religion for you!

I really think those gatherings of yours are a very nice idea. You don't need highly decorated preachers and expensive churches to be close to God (on the contrary, didn't Jesus say that temples and the like are the wrong way to honour God?), all you need is your strong believes and a nice community to share them with. =3

@Gary Stargazer: My mother didn't even divorce, she just dared to marry someone who did. Yet of course, despite being excommunicated, she still has to pay church tax...

Hey.... how's it going? My view on the Bible is very.... negative. Moses came down from the top of a mountain and claimed he heard god, and coincidentally he had the tools needed to forge a list of rules that were given unto him by a burning bush. Nowadays nobody with a high school diploma would believe a story like this, why? Because common sense was not yet discovered by these primitive Neanderthals, who blindly followed any story laid out in front of them, as long as the story teller had the bigger army behind him. I'm not saying it is impossible for Jesus to be real, but i don't believe any of those corny "miracles" he performed, or that his mother was a virgin. FYI in those times, if you lost your virginity before being wed, you were put to death. So wouldn't logic dictate she used the whole "impregnated by the holy spirit" story, to keep herself and her unborn child, from receiving a painful death?

Bible camps are just brainwashing facilities, making you thank an evil, uncaring being for every fortune and misfortune you receive in life. As for you and anyone else who is Bi or Gay, and still cling to this decadent faith, I mourn that you torture yourselves with trying to understand why these so called "holy people" don't accept you. Until the Bible and any book like it are considered works of fiction to the larger population, people will never stop persecuting what they don't understand. Then again, humanity will just find another reason to kill each other... *coughs* oil......

"Hi guys, I was asked to talk to you publicly to repent of my sins. Ohhkay, I'll repent of going to church camp, knowing doing so supports discrimination against a very important part of my identity. I repent from being dishonest and following parental pressure."

Sadly, saying so would result in my parents beating me with a leather belt or an iron cable, depending on which is more at hand, until leaving horrible bruises of shame. Or glaring at me and hold grudges. I'd prefer being beaten up than disliked, though :x

Thing is, being an atheist, I'll most likely be biased. Yet here I go. The bible has been used to support both good and bad causes all over history. My dad believes the Popes are the biggest genocides in history because they caused the crusades and fueled discrimination by races which, in this time, has been proven by genetists that don't exist.

The levitical law says that the one who killed should be killed, while the commandments say do not kill, and Jesus said to turn the other cheek. I find this more confusing than Ecuador's Judicial laws. At some point it says women shouldn't vote, talk in church, and never attempt to teach a man. Do we follow these rules? Hell, no. But the line about homosexuality being wrong is so advertised it kills me to think it's spreading ignorance for not revealing the reason these rules were proposed and applied back then to the general public which has been conditionated to be fed instead of taking the spoon.

Don't go back to church. Your friend either. The bible says to lock your door and pray in private, because praying is an act of personal bonding between YOU and YOUR GOD. You don't need someone who thinks you're an error to give you instructions.

If god turned out to be true, I would walk to Hell and tell the devil that I feel sorry he's accused of every single disgrace [or events considered disgraces] that ever happened in history and that we could talk about the irony of life anytime.

personally.. the church are a bunch of bigots and hypocrites i have ever ran across. they probably won't acknowledge it but they are bigots, racist, sexual and any other bad thing you can think up preditors. everyone needs to learn to think for themselves instead of being told what to think, what to wear, and what to eat or whatever. as it is if they beat you with a belt or a cord that is CHILD ENDANGERMENT AND ALSO CHILD ABUSE. THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW. PERIOD. that said.. if they do call the cops, show them the evidence and be placed with either your friend or your aunt or something. BUT do speak up if they do that. I rather be ignored than be beaten because I know that is against the law in all the 50 states of the United States of America. If you aren't from the US i can't help you there as far as advice goes but this: do what YOU want since it is YOUR life NOT THEIR'S. YOU have to live it and lead it in the direction you think it should. NOT them.
good luck is all i'm gonna add to this.

Originally Posted by LucienSlade

Hey.... how's it going? My view on the Bible is very.... negative. Moses came down from the top of a mountain and claimed he heard god, and coincidentally he had the tools needed to forge a list of rules that were given unto him by a burning bush. Nowadays nobody with a high school diploma would believe a story like this, why? Because common sense was not yet discovered by these primitive Neanderthals, who blindly followed any story laid out in front of them, as long as the story teller had the bigger army behind him.

I'm sorry if this comes off as rude, but you seem to not have made your research.

1. While I have to admit that the story of the 10 commandments isn't exactly an allegory, most other stories in the bible are.
2. Believes don't have anything to do with a high school diploma. Nobody can prove God really sent a message to Moses, but nobody can disprove the story, either. All we can do is either believe or not believe this story, a decision everybody has to make for themselves - and one that is in no way dependent on your intelligence.
3. Common sense in those days was actually more prevalent than it is nowadays. It was what made people survive, while with today's western culture most people would probably starve if it wasn't for instruction manuals.
4. There are at least 30 millennia between Neanderthals and the Old Testament... :P
5. Jews/Early Christians didn't have an army behind them at all. They where the underdogs, the enslaved. It wasn't an army that made people listen to those stories, it was HOPE.

I'm not saying it is impossible for Jesus to be real, but i don't believe any of those corny "miracles" he performed, or that his mother was a virgin. FYI in those times, if you lost your virginity before being wed, you were put to death. So wouldn't logic dictate she used the whole "impregnated by the holy spirit" story, to keep herself and her unborn child, from receiving a painful death?

Again I have to disagree, since this is actually not true.

1. Women were not put to death for loosing their virginity. They were simply shunned and had next to no chance of ever finding a man accepting them as their bride. They used to die because they just couldn't take care of themselves (and their babies, if they were impregnated during loosing their virginity) without a community to support them.
2. Back then that part of the world was ruled by the Roman Empire. All those talk about the messiahs being born did not help the poor girl to survive - on the contrary, the Romans did fear and search for the heir of David, because he brought hope to the underdogs and thus endangered their supremacy...
3. A lot of modern scientists believe that the immaculate conception was actually meant to hide a by far more cruel fact than that of a woman having sex before she was wed. There are actually indications that loosing her virginity wasn't her own free will, but that she rather was raped by one of the Roman occupants (which was pretty common in those days).
   I can understand why back in those days - when hope was the one thing that people needed the most, something like that did not fit into a holy book. Nowadays I think this detail actually makes the whole story even more important - imagine, a good man taking in a raped girl, becoming father to her bastard son, raising him with love and care into the great man billions of people are worshiping today. If that's not Christian love, I don't know what is.

Bible camps are just brainwashing facilities, making you thank an evil, uncaring being for every fortune and misfortune you receive in life. As for you and anyone else who is Bi or Gay, and still cling to this decadent faith, I mourn that you torture yourselves with trying to understand why these so called "holy people" don't accept you. Until the Bible and any book like it are considered works of fiction to the larger population, people will never stop persecuting what they don't understand. Then again, humanity will just find another reason to kill each other... *coughs* oil......

I don't think she or her friend are torturing themselves at all. On the contrary, it seems like they have found their own way of living their faith, without relying on those bigot hypocrites. They draw strength from their faith and use it as a morale guideline. I'd call that a pretty positive thing.

And they are not following an evil, uncaring being. They are following a God who - despite having a temper, which at times makes him seem almost human - does care a lot about his followers. Christianity, if you look past the militant idiots, is a religion of love and acceptance.

Don't let the vocal minority of "hardcore" Christians blur your judgment on an otherwise pretty positive, life-affirming religion.

Well, if it was a private Church camp, I guess they do have the right to decide who gets to be there and who doesn't. Not that that makes it right.

Why did they send her home? Well, it sounds to me like that particular denomination was not a fan of homosexuals, or at least of homosexual behavior (it's not entirely clear to me which one it was). They see either the orientation or the sexual actions as a sin. Thus, your friend was violating the teachings of that denomination. She was given two options: apologize and never do it again or leave. Obviously she decided to leave.

Now, setting aside the issue of whether being gay is sinful or not, their actions make sense. They had come up with certain rules for their community to follow. Your friend violated those rules and then continued to refuse to follow them. It makes sense that she was kicked out of the community at that point.

Going briefly back to the subject of the sinfulness of being gay, I'm just going to leave this one alone. There are so many differing views inside the Christian community, and there are probably even some that I've never even heard of. That's what happens when you split off into a million different denominations that each have their own say on what's what and are all allowed to interpret the bible however they want to.

I'm Catholic and, while our Church does not condone homosexuality, they do make a point of saying that we need to accept them and love them. The actions of the church camp leaders you've brought up seem very unloving to me. To say that a person cannot even abide in the presence of believers if they are sinful is, well, incredibly hypocritical. We are all sinners and we all have our crosses to bear. The only way any of us can even hope to lead a holy life is with the help of both Christ and the Church, the community of believers.
My Church is all about community and seeking help from our Church family (those on Earth, those in Purgatory, and those in Heaven), so this whole community thing has been instilled in me since I was a child. To exclude someone from your community who is doing no harm seems very uncaring to me.

But then, that's just my views on the subject.

I'm a christian who is also very accepting of gays and bi-sexuals. I believe that God is a very loving God who loves all of creation, regardless of race, sex, and orientation.

But sadly, christianity had been very mis-interpreted by hypocrites. To the point that they appear to be just hostile, racist money hoarders. I absolutely despise it.
I even went to a catholic school where I had to endure all of the stuck-ups and fakes who apparently went to church every Sunday. Like seriously, God was all about love. He may be a jealous God, but he still cared enough.

And the fact that your friend was kicked out of camp because of her orientation is outrageous. I'm pretty sure there is a law against that sort of discrimination, regardless if it is a church camp.
I would talk to a lawyer if I were her.