Hey, I've been lurking around and reading everything that was said here (because I'm nosy like that... haha). I was banned a while ago when the staff 'presumed' I was cheating and I think they were right to assume that since I was working to get all the rares with my little sister. We communicated IRL so I'll admit that we looked suspicious when she helped me farm the games and there was nothing on the site really except for a few private messages. In other words, it looked like we were just one person with multiple accounts. But we were both unbanned since there was no real evidence against us. Yes, I'll admit that we probably 'bent' the rules a bit, but I see people helping each other out all the time and I feel like our case wasn't really different. Our end goal was to have one of each item shared between our two accounts (bc there was really no need to get two of each of the rares when there were so many other people questing for them).

I do agree that sometimes the staff presumes too much. For instance, in my case, my sister and I further were accused of doing a 'fake' role-play. During my correspondence with the staff support account, whoever I spoke to said that we were one person because our style of writing was too similar (WTF?). I think they were grasping at straws trying to prove my guilt at times. Which was not cool and really frustrating.

But... I'm sort of feeling like we are NOT getting the entire story here. :(

In the end, my sister and I were unbanned because of the lack of evidence and I felt like I was treated fairly overall. I've been happy on Menewsha ever since and I don't think I've been in any trouble since (haha, except when I'm too vocal with my complaints/suggestions). Xb

tl;dr I don't think we're getting the whole story here. Having gone through something similar myself, I feel like we're missing half of the conversation. I'm not really friends with BellyButton and I thought I was friends with the people who were banned, so I'd like to think I'm being pretty impartial here. I just don't really want Liz/hummy to be manipulated (which yes, I think is happening here too). :(

I lurk because I'm nosy as well and it's easy
I want to say something about the issue, because I have read all the post as well
From before the issue and after, but I feel like its not my place to say anything.

I had a similar issue to you Siri but I wasn't banned, it's just at school it's one server. I have no idea how it all works.
And that has noting to do with the matter at hand.

But my point is why should us users who has nothing to do with the issue have any right to know the reason to the bans?
Is it because we are on menewsha therefore we should know what is going on?
Or is it because you want to be there for your friends?

Haha, I don't think I was being clear earlier. I just wanted to back up BellyButton and point out that it's easy for users to say one thing and the staff can't really post anything in response without discussing something that should be private. So... I think we are being mislead by Guest, as much as I'd like to believe otherwise.

I mean, Guest already admitted that Hina cheated outright--you DON'T take items from a charity account, no matter what the reason. That's just common sense to me... I was banned before and some things about my banning and the reversal of the banning were really frustrating, but in the end, I felt that I was treated fairly through the entire ordeal.

Vicky, I think you're right, we shouldn't be posting and commenting on something that has nothing to do with us, but this entire discussion has been so prolonged and posted in one of the more active forums on the site. I think that since Guest brought this up for everyone to see, it should be okay for us to post a comment or two... :)

I do agree with you, because of Guest posting publicly; that is does raise so eye brows. And as has us thinking.....
And a comment or two shouldn't hurt.

And at the end of the day I do think the staff has good reason to do what they do, they are trying to make it all fair, and safe here on menewsha. And I'm pretty sure it was all for good reasons. I'm not saying this because I didn't know they banned users personally here on mene or in rl, but because I don't see them just picking at one user and like hey you banned!

I would be upset that I have to start over, and maybe not even want to come back on mene if I was to be banned, but it's still no reason to play with everyone's minds, and confuse us even more......

Originally Posted by BellyButton

You know perfectly well what I'm talking about. I'd rather not have to go into detail here, but I am willing to if this continues.

Your right to total privacy regarding the details of your ban ends when you begin to publicly manipulate other users into siding with you with half-truths and outright lies about the ban. That is scammy behavior and it makes the people you put in the middle feel bad & less safe here. I'll not stand by and protect you while you take advantage of people in that way.

Find another way to express your disgust for Mene that doesn't involve publicly fudging the details of your ban in ways that harm others, and we'll be OK.

I thought you might say "you know what I'm talking about" or something along those lines. When we didn't know why we were banned it was the same "you know what we are talking about" reaction. No.. I really don't know what you are talking about.

Again with this idea that I am trying to manipulate people.

no.

just no. I mean why the hell even......

This is the same thing that happened again when I was banned. You guys thought we were scamming hummy and Liztress when I explain that was not true at all... I don't think you argued against that. You weren't clear when it came to exactly which user was "scammed" Now I'm not sure at this point.
--

+ We didn't manipulate Liz and Hummy... i believe they agree.

@vicky: why does me posting publicly raise an eyebrow? Up until now I kept the reasons for us being banned private because I thought there might be a chance my account at least would be unbanned. When I didn't get a reply back I decided its ok to tell everyone now.

I wanted to tell people why I was banned. That's it. Like how can i secretly benefit from this or something?

@pixorie: i'm not misleading you! + yes its ok if you comment

just ugh.. you guys.

Wow Guest, after all our PMs you expect me to believe that you really don't know what I'm talking about? And you've been completely honest here and are not hiding any details at all, really?

We talked about a lot of things.

can you at least tell me which one you believe I'm lying about.

---------- Post added 05-30-2012 at 06:46 PM ----------

what the hell.

Was it me saying that we didn't scam hummy and Liztress? because we didn't. are you talking about how you said Hina DID scam someone? that one quote you showed me of a trade comment? I asked about that remember? I never got a clear answer.

was it me saying that I didn't intentionally take from the savemene account? Because I didn't.

was it me saying that we didn't intentionally do anything wrong? because we didn't. if you don't believe that, that's fine. but it's not a lie.

jesus christ, what else did I mention

was it me saying the staff made an assumption? was that what you consider lying?

---------- Post added 05-30-2012 at 06:52 PM ----------

or was it me saying we had permission to go to on the accounts we went on?

we did have permission from our friends to go on their accounts. except the savemene account, which I never went on. and YES i know it is against the rules to go on anyone elses account regardless! I even said so.

---------- Post added 05-30-2012 at 06:57 PM ----------

so please which part am I lying about! there are a lot of things.

what am I manipulating

where is my scammy behavior

scammy scammy. oh yes.

I'm not sure what to make of all that, but I'll address what I was referring to:

When you invited Hummy and Liztress into your drama here in the forums, you didn't tell them the whole story of why we believed that your behavior was "scammy" towards them, or even give them an accurate reason for your ban. You made it sound like false assumptions about them were responsible for your ban and that they might be able to save you if they backed you up. You essentially asked them to defend you, without providing them with the information that would allow them to make a choice for themselves. That is manipulative.

Since you seem confused and you keep mentioning them here and asking them to vouch for you, and because you asked, I'll clarify:

In the example you and I discussed via PM, it was pointed out to you that while you and Hina were sitting on hundreds of items taken from accounts that did not belong to you (including a charity mule), and hiding gold gained from the sale of these items in an open trade, you and Hina were casually conversing with users including Liztress and hummy in the forums about how "poor" Hina was. Hina accepted a "gift" in trade during this time (which she reimbursed the user for later via donation). We felt that you guys taking a bunch of items, actively misleading other users about the actual state of your wealth, and then accepting gifts from those same folks (even if they were paid for later) all contributed to "scammy" behavior. A simple way I define scammy behavior for myself is when a deception results in material gain. Regardless of motives, that was happening. That wasn't "disproved," and we weren't making decisions based on "assumptions" about it, we just stopped discussing it, because:

Your interactions with actual users were totally irrelevant to your bans sticking.

Because taking items from accounts that do not belong to you (especially from a charity mule) and using them to funnel wealth to yourselves is so completely against the rules, there is no excuse good enough to make it OK. You guys were hiding 145K by the end, and the hundreds of items taken included many drool-worthy rares. It was a huge haul. There is zero doubt that this happened. You've racked up enough infraction points just from that to be banned several times over. Just touching the charity mule is worthy of an insta-ban (passing charity items to yourself through Hina does not absolve you from taking them).

I'm really not sure why you would want to rehash this all in public. But I hope it's clear now that you were not banned for "assumptions" or because of Liztress and Hummy, but because of actual clear-cut rules violations.

If there is still any confusion over this, let me know.

I was not asking hummy or liztress to defend me! In the PMs and here I said "hummy and liztress would agree" because they would. and did. lol.

and I do not see how Liztress or hummy were mislead! Like what would you have want me to told them? Because during the time we were back on menewsha I hardly talked to any users. I wasn't involved in what you thought was Hina scamming Liztress and hummy, so what could I have said? I think youre right I should have told them more though, but I wasn't lying.

YES I know I went on Umbrella's account and accidentally took items that were previously on the savemene account. but as I explained I was only trying to take my items from Umbrella's account, not the ones from the savemene account. I had absolutely no way of knowing if two of the same items on Umbrella's account were from savemene and another from mine.

AND for the last time WE WERE NOT trying to mislead users to try to act fucking poor or anything like that. Why am I being considered scammy for something we didn't even do. Because it was stopped being discussed, I thought it was disproven/dismissed. I wish I was aware of this before so I wouldn't have to waste my breath saying the truth. I want some real evidence that we were trying to act poor. And that we were not just joking around or talking.

THE items we TOOK were given to us by friends. YES we did take the items from our friends account, BUT THEY LET US. YES its against the rules but regardless, you are trying to give an impression that we stole them out of maliciousness.

Finally, WE WERE NOT trying to hide our gold. OR ITEMS. (as I said in the PMs but apparently were not believed or considered) Since we were sharing gold, it was much easier to keep it in a trade in case either of us needed it. IT WAS PURELY out of convenience. OF COURSE we had a lot of gold and items. we are exchangers. we were saving up gold for an auction.

I WAS NOT trying to rehash this all in public. I just wanted to give basically why we were banned. Yes you guys weren't getting the full story because I didn't want to go into detail because OBVIOUSLY now NO ONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT THE HELL i'm talking about because its a long fucking story. BUT since you said I said untruths and you gave people reason to doubt me, of course I had to defend myself.

Because I haven't lied.

NOT ONCE. To you, hummy, liztress, anyone.

You didn't consider/believe a lot of what I said in the PMs which is why you still thought I was "scammy".

Don't know eh this shit is in my thread.I come back to see what's up & this is still goin on.:/
All I'm saying is I legitimately let Kirstie & Kaitlin part to laziness & me being not near a computer.It's my account & I can honestly let who the fuck I want on it.So you can fucking ban me for letting them on my account.If it's oh so crucial.

This is a fucking avi site.These "items" & "money" is fake.Fucking pixelated.Most of you "mods" & "admins" are to fucking old for this shit.Grow up.Pissing me off on a terrible night.I've been to nice..now you see the black in me & trust it can get worse.

Kaitlin all I have to say is that they're stubborn horse asses & they won't unban you.I'm sorry for my cause in this.

OMFG foxxi. I'm so sorry. So sorry. I love you lots.

I love you. I hope you dont get infractioned or anything, but we can still talk on MSN and stuff.

Lol see there's that little thing called give a fuck which I just don't.I'm done with this site.

&& of course you know we basically text everyday!

Originally Posted by Guest

THE items we TOOK were given to us by friends. YES we did take the items from our friends account, BUT THEY LET US.

Here's the problem with your claim that you had "permission" - there is a history of stuff like this:
Disappearing items...?

Unless you're saying Windy is lying to us when she makes these Info Desk posts asking where her stuff went? She made one asking about her charity, too.

Finally, WE WERE NOT trying to hide our gold.

Here's what you wrote in one of your gold-hiding trades:

Posted By: kitkat 04-22-2012 at 10:18 PM
jus hiding our gold
Posted By: Umbrella 04-23-2012 at 10:12 AM
oooh what a sneaky sneaky hiding place

OF COURSE we had a lot of gold and items. we are exchangers. we were saving up gold for an auction.

Items taken from the charity mule:

Golden Decorative Stockings
Blind Justice
Star Catcher
Chaos Armor
Cessy's Chocolate Coin
Oriental Fan
Valentines Pendant
Valentines Belt
Kitsune and Caboodle
Scarf of Order
Eyes of the Wild
Jade Ronin
Yin Yang
Chilly The Polar Bear
Peacock Scythe
Overlord's Wrath
Golden Mystic Faun Horns
Mystic Faun
Midas Touch
Peeblo the Imp
Tatsu the Dragon
Bao Bao the Panda
Order Armor
Steampunk Headgear
Yumeh Slippers
Pingu
Retrobot
Dark Crystal
Harpy
Obakemono
Imperial Lucky Cat
Indra's Storms
Rainbows of Iris
Sleepy Time
Tapio Defender
Return to Nature
Silver Serpent Bracers
Blood Lotus
Tome of Nightmares
Robes of Healing
Phear Meh
Book of Daydreams
Pumpkin Patch
Yumeh Bats
Cloak of Death
A Night in the Graveyard
Witch's Broom
Witch's Broom
Witch's Broom
The Black Widow's Pin
Phear Meh
Yumeh Ears and Tail
Kitsune and Caboodle
Ire of Naias
Calesco's Fury
Rocking Out Rock Star
Jamming With Yumeh
Omniscient Eye
Trinity Guardian
Nalin's Holiday Cookie
Vicky's Red Velvet Cupcake
Vicky's Red Velvet Cupcake
Lise's Gingerbread Man
Aimee's Eggnog
Magnus's Creamy Cappuccino
Peeblo's Yule Log
Mr. Mayor's Mulled Wine
Mr. Mayor's Mulled Wine
King of Hearts Crown
King of Hearts Crown
King of Hearts Staff
King of Hearts Staff
Caged Heart
Caged Heart
Glowing Heart Halo
Yumeh Halo
Glowing Heart Halo

You didn't consider/believe a lot of what I said in the PMs which is why you still thought I was "scammy".

I considered everything you said. You are correct that I don't believe a lot of it.

Again, what I believe doesn't matter because you obviously broke rules.

Continuing to talk about it here doesn't matter because there is nothing you can do to change the outcome. Like Foxxi said, I'm a "stubborn horse ass." ;)

oh windy... she probably forgot. I don't know, i didn't talk to windy, hina talked to her over facebook.

YES I know i said that. AS A JOKE. you probably won't believe me. because you believed we were scamming hummy/Liztress even though the conversations we had with them were not scam-like.

I still would like to see some evidence of us trying to scam them.

ok whats your point about listing the items from the charity mule account. I had nothing to do with that. According to Hina those were her items. or possibly azn's or windy's. We were trying to get a lot of items to sell so that we could get a lot of gold for the auction. She still thinks the items on the savemene account were hers, but you said they were like from 4 different accounts. but she thought they were hers because they kept a record of all the donations.

I wasn't trying to argue with you in the first place.

I was talking to the people on this thread on why I was banned. (never lied)

but then you came here saying I said untruths.

the only reason why you considered them "untruths" is because you didn't believe me

it doesn't matter if you didn't believe me, I have no reason to lie. or even be here. I just wanted to tell people why I was banned. then get people's contact info.

the reason why I said I was banned in public in the first place was because i KNEW nothing could be done to change the outcome. If i thought something could be done, then I wouldn't have said anything. but now it doesn't matter, so I wanted to tell people.

---------- Post added 05-31-2012 at 11:16 AM ----------

I should have listened to the other old members, they said no matter what, I would not convince you because you already decided I was lying.

---------- Post added 05-31-2012 at 11:20 AM ----------

oh WTF in this thread http://www.menewsha.com/forum/main/i...ing-items.html it was resolved they went to Hina what is your point? they share items ALL THE TIME. why are you showing this.

edit: and as you can see, she was not surprised hina had the items. so this doesn't prove anything that we were lying about having permission.

---------- Post added 05-31-2012 at 11:22 AM ----------

oh and in this one http://www.menewsha.com/forum/main/i...ing-items.html shes asking where her charity mule went, not the items. because you guys banned it. *clap clap clap*

You have a pattern you follow, Guest. It's 'we did NOTHING and I have no idea what you're talking about' -> 'ok yeah we did that but' -> 'actually everything was Hina's fault.' And then it loops. It's tiresome.

If you really read what I said and think about those links, you should understand their significance.

My ability to be diplomatic with you is at an end, so I'm going to give this to another staff member now.

omfg

you are impossible.

the only stuff that I had nothing to do with are the savemene account and hummy/liztress

---------- Post added 05-31-2012 at 11:47 AM ----------

give this to another staff member?

no thanks.

I had a problem with you saying I said untruths

been here like 4 years and all of the sudden yeah of course I decide to become a scammer.

yeah makes sense.

because of course i need to. oh yeah, boy.

this is just fucking stupid.

you're awful.

i dont know what else to say.

thanks for saying "sorry" that one time.

and thanks for replying what it was convenient to argue against. and not addressing all my points.

thanks for bringing no evidence that we were scammers.

thanks for giving others the impression hina and I we are somehow evil. and liars.

even though the people know us very well and know we have no reason to do anything like scamming.

---------- Post added 05-31-2012 at 11:53 AM ----------

you should understand the significance of hina and winter sharing items all the time.

I said raises some eyebrows because the whole thing was confusing, and "I" couldn't tell who was wrong or right, just by reading the statements posted, but like I said it isn't my place or my business to really judge anyone. I was just being nosy
I lurk all the time so it's nothing new

Hmm maybe staff should enable past trades. I really don't understand why we can't see them. Quite annoying.

I agree Roachi

I completely agree. We should be able to see past trades so we can look ourselves to see if we traded something and why, versus having to contact the staff and have them search. I mean, I still don't know where my items went that came up missing a few weeks ago and it's really annoying not being able to look myself. Same with sales in the marketplace - sure we get email notifications, but unless you keep every single one you're never going to know - and the mailbox only has a certain limit, so you'll still never know if you sell a lot and you have to delete old sale messages.
I tried keeping a record, but I honestly just never remember to write it down xD;
Would be SO much easier to just go in to the marketplace and see our records, or go into our trades and see our records - I mean, we have records of what happens WITHIN a trade, and it counts how many people bid in the marketplace on an item, but not once it's completed. I would think the record outside of the trade would be way more important than inside - I mean, I personally never look at the inside log xD;
And I think it would be beneficial for the marketplace too :3

Just my 2 cents ;) <3