I love this series, wish they'd make another game. All the games are fun, and catching the historical references can be pretty interesting (also--figuring out what's not supposed to be there. :lol:)

Okay, so...*thinks* What do you think the Shadow Hearts world would be like if carried forward into the present day? I mean, they already had cell phones in 1913 and flying assault robots in 1914. Would everyone have Roger's level of technology, or would he remain ahead of the pack? Would the government be keeping all their innovations suppressed, so that most people would have our level of technology and all the teleporters are government secrets? And how common would be magic? (Seeing as they used crests in the second and third game...does that mean anyone can use magic? That'd be awesome.)

Update: Mushy's post reminded me to clarify, any Koudelka fans are definitely welcome here too! After all, Koudelka's characters and story are important parts of the Shadow Hearts world!

I was surprised that you hadn't made a topic on Shadow Hearts yet. Then again, I haven't made one for Spiral, and I went a few pages back to look for a Spiral topic even, in the Anime/Manga section...so I guess it's not that unusual. XD

If Shadow Hearts could go to present day, I think they'd probably have crazy technology that we hadn't heard of, and yeah...someone's holding out. Roger, the government...maybe we'd find out what the flip crop circles were. XD

*can only imagine what it would be like if we had an Emigre*

I can imagine they made Iraq to be about...a fight over the Emigre. I doubt we'd make it to present day without some superpowers knowing about it, and Bush trying to get his hands on it. Bush would totally want the Emigre...XD

That's how they'd twist history around. Though I would think there would be small things in future Shadow Hearts games, just don't know what yet...someone give me a book on history that reaches up to the present, I bet I could come up with a billion things. XD

I was thinking about making the topic for a while, but at first I was like "there's probably not many SH fans here, and everyone would expect me to do it" and then I realized that hey, I'd have fun doing it, so I might as well do it anyways! Plus...well...gold. *is enchanted by the shiny*

OMG, it would be so hilarious if Roger was responsible for crop circles. Or maybe it's Hilda taking his aircraft out on joy rides. :lol: She'd go nuts with it.

...I don't want to imagine any politician with the Emigre, including Bush. Didn't Roger say in Koudelka that the Emigre's original purpose had been to create undead slaves and armies? Jeez! That power would seriously be abused by some governments. Although I guess that would make it a "WMD" of sorts.

Yeah, they'd probably keep up with the tiny historical references. It'd be kind of hilarious to see what they chose. :)

Wait, but crop circles are REAL. >>; Actually, I have no legitmate proof of that, but as many mistakes as the characters would make in an airship, I'm certain I know the answer to crop circles...XD

I've heard crop circles were around before...a long time ago. XD (Lazy much, Mushy?)

Yeah the Emigre is a WMD. I don't want to see Bush in a video game at all. Games are too pretty, and you know he'd sue or something... -_-;

Hmm...maybe the Emigre falls into the hands of pro-lifers in the 80s...the ones that blew up abortion clinics and don't mind exploiting dead babies. T_T Poor things...but can you imagine the enemies that would make? Now I know where those monsters with the baby torsos and heads that are all gross and scream and cause status ailments came from...

>>

I need sleep. I feel as if I've said many offensive things. ^^;

We are probably bordering on very iffy territory here. :oops: But, on the other hand...that probably comes naturally with discussing how a book that brings people back as monsters would be used in the current day.

The idea of a well-meaning person trying to let a baby live the life it never was born into and creating a soulless monster instead is kind of sweet, actually... in the "oh crap, now we're all dead," way. :lol:

Yeah it came into my head because it was something discussed in history class, and Shadow Hearts is all about twisting history...

And Shadow Hearts, even KOUDELKA, had those scary baby creatures. They made me sad and terrified and freaked out all at once. ;-;

...and it's the Emigre. It brings back the dead. I can't imagine NOT wanting to do it, even if...they do come back souless creatures... >>; Because...it might work...just this once! It's not like anyone knew, other than maybe a couple of dozen, that there were people in the past that used the Emigre to do some hideous things.

Yeah it's iffy territory, but it came to mind, and I guess I couldn't help but bring it up. It does relate to Shadow Hearts almost TOO much for comfort, because of the history relation, the reviving dead loved ones, or even unloved ones I guess, and baby creatures. D:

...very odd indeed.

But I want a history book so I can come up with way less disturbing images in my head. >>; Let's see, in between the last Shadow Hearts game which was based on 1929, and the present at 2007, what all could Shadow Hearts use?

We need a list...or a history book that covers those years. D: I had one...or two. In high school, of course. T_T

We've got massacres, mysterious disappearances, hypnosis being used to plant false memories of satanic cults (or, as it'd probably turn out in the game, not-so-false memories), cold wars, bombings of all kinds...

Erm. What isn't there in the last 80 years?

Yeah, that's true. It seems Roger (and probably Albert Simon as well) was one of the few who actually knew the Emigre was never intended to produce a true resurrection. Which kind of contradicts Covenant and FtNW, actually, since there shouldn't have been a spell in the book to return the soul to the body--unless maybe Roger wasn't just translating the book, but altering it as well.

Baby creatures in Koudelka were freakier than anything else. Everytime you hit them, they cried, and I kept thinking of my baby brother at the time and ...it was not fun!

What is this about hypnosis to plant false memories of Satanic cults? Or is this something I missed in history? (My guess is I likely forgot).

My knowledge of history never expanded outside the US after we reached the Revolution or the World Wars in history class at school. I'm afraid I'm rather limited on what I know because of that...North American schools are content to pretend NA is the only country worth learning about. ^^;

I think I'll have to do some research and see what I can find out about the rest of the world during that time. Particularly in countries Shadow Hearts never covered. They covered Japan, Europe, China, South America, and North America...what about Australia and Africa? :o

...or even maybe something interesting in Anarctica?

^___^

Seriously, there are too many countries with untapped potential. :)

The baby creatures in the series, in particular Koudelka, make me really anxious and sick to my stomach. ^^;

Originally Posted by Mushy Kylo Hendricks

What is this about hypnosis to plant false memories of Satanic cults? Or is this something I missed in history? (My guess is I likely forgot).

It wasn't a major historical event, but it's something probably any student who's taken introductory psychology will know about. There have been several well-known cases of false memories being planted by hypnosis, typically memories involving sexual abuse--the most famous case was one where the patient became convinced through therapy she had over a hundred personalities, including a duck (that part always sticks out in my mind :lol:), and had been in a Satanic cult when she was a child and had been raped and forced to see her best friend murdered at eight years old.

I guess eventually the patient learned that even though she seemed to "remember" those events that her memory couldn't be trusted, because memories can be created through hypnosis (or any kind of suggestion, really--there was another study showing that if people are told by a relative or an acquaintance that they did something and are pressured to recall it, they'll start to believe they did and even start "remembering" specific details of the event, when in fact it never happened). When her false memories couldn't be supported by any actual evidence, was in fact contradicted by other evidence, she sued the psychologist for malpractice. I think she got over $2 million.

So...it'd be interesting to see hypnosis and false memories used somehow. :) Heck, maybe you can reverse it--have the satanic cult give the protagonist false memories of a happy normal childhood.

My knowledge of history never expanded outside the US after we reached the Revolution or the World Wars in history class at school. I'm afraid I'm rather limited on what I know because of that...North American schools are content to pretend NA is the only country worth learning about. ^^;

I think I'll have to do some research and see what I can find out about the rest of the world during that time. Particularly in countries Shadow Hearts never covered. They covered Japan, Europe, China, South America, and North America...what about Australia and Africa? :o

...or even maybe something interesting in Anarctica?

Yeah, I'm not too good with history outside of the U.S., myself. I know a little...but honestly not that much at all.

Wow, they could really use that in Shadow Hearts, in different ways.

As for the actual hypnosis stuff, I've noticed a lot of my family members do things like that. It's one of the reasons I avoid them...my family is really content to use any means to force someone to have memories they did not. They also like to self diagnose themselves with medical and psychological problems, and especially diagnose all the children in the family with a billion of the worst psychological issues...so yeah, I've seen that first hand, how people enjoy messing with each other's minds. It's something that might become too close for comfort because of watching people try it with me, and doing it well with others in my family, that I may not actually want to see it in a video game. Though it may be fine if it's a more mild circumstance...


I wish in high school, they'd at least given more classes on World History and World Geography...>.>;

o.O Family members who deliberately try to do that...should really be smacked upside the head.

It can be misleading sometimes even just to ask the person to remember, depending on how you frame the question. For example, sometimes therapists who think their patient has been sexually abused for some reason (but the patient doesn't remember it) will ask them leading questions such as "Imagine that you are in that situation...where are you? What time of day is it? How do you feel?"

It's supposed to lead to a specific memory. The problem is a phenomenon called imagination inflation--if you imagine something that seems like it's real over and over again, your brain starts to forget that those feelings came from the imagination and you start thinking it's actually your memory. So while it might help a rape victim remember, it might also lead to a girl who's in reality a virgin accusing her father of impregnating her twice and forcing her to abort both times with a coat hanger. (Yes. Real case, sadly enough, and I want to smack that therapist upside the head.)

Probably too off-topic to go into detail, but...my family hasn't done actual hypnosis, they just pressure people like what you mentioned. Leading them to believe they've gone through something they haven't. When you do that to a child, and a child wants to say anything that will make an adult happy...

You can imagine the result. :/

That was a real case? That's sickening. D:

Anyway, back on topic, I can imagine if it relates to the villian getting people to believe things that didn't happen, or forgetting something that did happen...I can see that in Shadow Hearts.

You could probably tie it into paranormal phenomenia but I don't know how off the top of my head. XD

No, I didn't think you meant hypnosis, I thought you were talking about lying to make the children believe something that didn't happen.

Okay, now, back on topic...

Hm, in terms of tying the paranormal into hypnosis...it'd be interesting to see how a hypnotized person would react to Malice. It's often said that hypnosis lowers inhibitions, so maybe they'd just immediately lose control to the Malice and act like Lady. On the other hand, hypnotized people still won't do things which are against their will, and they often report that the actions they do perform seem to be effortless. So I wonder if maybe hypnosis could actually help a person resist Malice? Just like "Nope. Not going to do it" and BAM that Malice is outta there.

Then again, I just remembered that Shadow Hearts already uses possession, like when Anastasia goes all creepy-eyed and HAI BRO I STAB U WITH KNIFE. So I guess that maybe they don't really need hypnosis, or that hypnosis would just be an alternative method.

Hmm yeah they did use it with Anastasia. XD

Er, I can imagine that possibly it would be used to control people into releasing malice from various places...? I mean, what other places would possible hold malice though? I bet they could come up with something...

And of course, snapped out of a hypnotic state, would someone even remember that they released malice?

Of course, that type of hypnosis doesn't tie in very well to what you were telling me about... :/

Hmm...

Yeah, there's a big difference between how hypnosis really works and how it's portrayed in literature.

Most people do remember what they do when under hypnosis. I saw a video demonstrating this, where the hypnotist asked the person to sniff a bottle of ammonia while telling them it was a musky cologne. The person said it smelled kind of nice, but when they weren't hypnotized and smelled it again, they jerked back from the smell right away. The hypnotist then started asking him questions and he said that yep, while he was hypnotized the ammonia had smelled like cologne to him. So people do remember, and someone who snapped out of a trance after unleashing a bunch of Malice would still remember it.

But we can always go with Oedipal Jack's version of hypnosis, when you're made to do things you don't want to. :lol:

I suppose either way could work. It'd always be easier to convince someone under hypnosis that they had some desperate need to release malice, and when they are not in hypnosis anymore, it's still remembered.

That would tie in more with what you were telling me. :3

That way, someone would actually have been convinced under hypnosis that malice was something it wasn't, and being convinced that they must release it.

XD Yeah, just playing around with the idea. Of course, this is about possible things that could happen if Shadow Hearts had continued on. The slim possibility makes me doubtful and hopeful at the same time. ^^;

I had a really stupid thought.

Filmmaking and Shadow Hearts has already kind of been hand in hand...with Mao anyway.

*is reading about Brandon Lee and his death in The Crow*

Yeah, I'm trying to find a way to tie that in with Shadow Hearts. It is historical...if you're a fan of The Crow movies like me. ^^;

I saw only like...the beginning of one of the Crow movies, and I don't remember it very clearly. Horror movies have never really been a big thing for me.

Is The Crow classified as Horror?

It doesn't even feel like horror and I don't think it should be for what the content is about. o.O;

Edit: The reason I mentioned it was that Brandon Lee was shot and killed during the filmaking. They were recording his death scene and the gun malfunctioned, and I guess hit him in the abdomen...o.O I don't know exactly what happened, really, but it was a matter of prop negligence. D:

That's why I mentioned the movie, was his death. o.O;

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong thing then...I thought there was a series of horror films by that name.

...the accidental death is kind of horrifying in its own right though.

I don't think it would be considered horror, but it is in a series. I guess, if you wanted to be general, it is horror. But it's more like, a guy comes back to take revenge after his girlfriend's death... o.O;

Um, the incident during the film is one of the only things most people who aren't fans of the series associate with the movie.

I just think incidents like that...eeeh, maybe I'm going "out there" but I think you could tie them into malice...somehow. Though to be honest, I doubt anyone would approve of a portrayal of Brandon Lee in a video game. That was 1994... ^^;

Anyway, it was just some silly thought. Nevermind. :(

I'm here! Hmmm, no new faces huh? I knew it! No one knows about Shadow Hearts but the 3 of us in all of Mene! :P Well, considering this is still a young community, I suppose that's understandable.

Charis, you spent nearly all of your gold already!? :lol: Nah, just teasing a little. Your avi looks great! :D

I'm saving mine for art, once the trades are enabled I'll go art hunting. :twisted:

Yeah, that means I'll go nekkid probably for as long as I stay here in mene.

I keep seeing stuff that I think will look good, but then when I buy them and try putting them on...nope.

But I'm not really interested in downloading the tektek equivalent for Menewsha, so I guess I'll just have to risk it. :)

I'm not surprised that there's been no one new, though I gotta admit, I was hoping to get at least one or two new people. I guess Shadow Hearts really isn't that well known. No surprise it stopped as a series, I guess.

I wanted to try making a text adventure as a fan...work? fic? But I stumbled into coding problems with one scenario I wanted to try, and if that doesn't work it's not very likely the rest of the ideas I had would work!

...although it just occured to me that maybe I could use a timer to change things. Hmmmmm. Timer would probably work. I should try that sometime. And then more Ricardo torture. :twisted:

The lack of SH fans locally is what pushed me to have an online persona, otherwise the internet would still have remained a simple tool just for research. XD

I remember the text adventure, though I haven't tried it yet. I hope you'll solve the coding problems and make them work to suit your ideas. :twisted:
Ahahah, poor Ricardo, you like to pick on him a lot! XD

Have I picked on Ricardo that much? I mean, I know I pick on Yuri...:D Can't remember at the moment what I've done to Ricardo. Although he makes a pretty good angst-magnet.

He's in there mostly because I want to use SH characters in the adventure :) Because the thing about text adventures is, you typically play as "yourself", so it's likely that the character I'll use for the player will be an OC. I was trying to think of what characters would likely also be involved and since Ricardo's still a'wandering, there's a pretty good excuse to have him pop up just about anywhere in the Americas. (I'm also pretty sure either Johnny or Halley will be involved, but I'm not yet sure which. And if Halley's involved, depending on the plot, the playable character might end up being Chris. I'd use Sharon, except then players would expect to solve problems through summoning and I have no clue how I'd even start coding that monstrosity.)

What I was trying to create was an event where shortly after the player becomes aware of Ricardo's presence (they can hear his guitar in the distance), he's murdered. The player has the option to avoid him and let him be killed, or look for him and help him get out of the mess. ('Course, if the player goes about helping him the wrong way...they get killed too. :D)

Mostly I was running into two problems:

1) I didn't know how to show the murder in progress. Ricardo doesn't just drop dead out of the blue, but when I was first programming it, that's all I knew how to do. One minute, he's alive and playing his guitar, the next he's ...*checks program again* pinned to a table with several butcher knives.

I suppose that could happen in an instant if you've got a psycho psychic, but that's not supposed to be the case here. So I need a way to allow the player to see the murder progressing if they stay in the room while it's going on. Hopefully a timer will help me do that.

2) With Inform, I'm not sure how to handle Ricardo after the event. I haven't tried programming beyond the scene yet, but I'm worried that if I remove Ricardo from play in the outcome where he's dead, any code that tries to use Ricardo will result in an error. Maybe it'll work, though. I guess I'll just have to try it.

Although I should probably sit down and figure out what exactly the plot is before I tackle a larger portion of the game. :lol:

Hehe, remember that fic about ebul Edna killing McManus? I really felt sorry for Ricardo, I can't think of anything more tragic than having Edna turn against him...and now he has his own torture scene in your text adventure, leaving him to the mercy of the players. :lol:

Ah Yuri, you can pick his thick hide any time you want. :twisted: