Okay so someone (me) finally makes a thread about gay people in the army. Well I've been thinking....Should gay people be in the army? Well my opinion is yes. Yes because it's not fair that gay people should be treated differently than straight. I want to know what you think about gay people being in the army.

You really think gays are THAT sexual?O_o

No but maybe some are. I don't have anything aginst gay people. I wouldn't mind a gay person being in the army.

There are already heterosexual men and women in the military, and yes, there are some disgraceful individuals - problems do arise with harassment and even rape - but these are the exception and not the rule, and I would expect it to be relatively the same if gays were allowed to serve their country in the military.

I'm solidly in support of getting rid of Don't Ask Don't Tell and allowing the LGBT community to openly serve. And if certain individuals cause problems, they should rightfully be discharged, just as the straight offenders should.

I agree with Zewlie, it's not like the average gay person is going to be unable to control themselves around other guys. That's like saying that guys shouldn't go to the same school as girls because they'll get too distracted to get any work done at all.

Also, this clip has to do with this subject and cracks me up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aotlEpmAFVQ

That whole "They'll be having sex in the jeeps" argument is from the 70s for crying out loud. You'd think by now people would have a little more enlightened view of homosexuals.

Homosexuals are normal people! They're not hypersexual or hyperpromiscuous, at least, no moreso than the average heterosexual.

The idea that you shouldn't allow gays in the army because they'll be having sex all over the place... well, it's just ridiculous. We have female troops, don't we? e__e

I agree with everyone else in that homosexuals still have self control just like anyone else. I don't see why we need to treat them any differently than we treat heterosexuals. They're just the same as the rest of us, aren't they?

... It's not because they're gay that they'll hump every soldier in a 15ft radius around them on a battlefield. If you would enter the army (assuming you're a girl and not a guy with a female avatar), would you be distracted and aroused by all the men around you? I think anyone, gay or not, has more important things to think of when they're in a war zone. Like, making sure they stay in one piece, maybe?

I think if gays should be banned from the army, then women should be too. Because there are a LOT more heterosexual men in the army, and if you're worried about sexual distraction, I think putting a woman in a squadron of men is much more "dangerous" than dropping a gay man there.

Originally Posted by Volucria

distracted and aroused by all the men around you? I think anyone, gay or not, has more important things to think of when they're in a war zone. Like, making sure they stay in one piece, maybe?

I think that it's definitely true that it's more important to think about how to live than how hot the people are around you, but don't you think that in a serious situation, that mentality would just kind of come naturally? That's putting a pretty big importance on sex to say that people care about it more than they care about survival (if that's what you're saying would happen, maybe I'm misunderstanding).

Originally Posted by miss murder

EDIT: Okay I'm getting tired of people getting mad for my explanation of the no part of why gay people shouldn't be in the army. I know that not all gay people are sexual and all over each other. I'm just saying some might be. Just like girls and guys together could be all over each other. I thought some people in Menewsha would figure that out.

People are getting mad because it's a ridiculous assumption to make in any capacity. Using it as an explanation for gays not to be in the military is as insulting as saying that women shouldn't be in the military because they'll be shagging all the men in the back of the tent. It's stereotyping, it's ugly, and it's irrelevant to the argument at hand.

Straight people can be just as sexual as gays. Saying that gays will be distracted is purely ignorance. Gays sometimes will goof off and get distracted, but won't straight guys too? Even girls-- especially girls --will get distracted once and a while, no matter how serious or non-playful they may be.

Originally Posted by miss murder

EDIT: Okay I'm getting tired of people getting mad for my explanation of the no part of why gay people shouldn't be in the army. I know that not all gay people are sexual and all over each other. I'm just saying some might be. Just like girls and guys together could be all over each other. I thought some people in Menewsha would figure that out.

The point is that there are already heterosexual men and women in the armed forces, working together. Most of them are not "all over each other." Many of them have families back home that they remain loyal to. If and when there are problems, the individuals who cause them should be discharged. Unless you can give a reason why homosexuals in the military would be any different, this argument has been shot down.

That's the point I'm trying to give people!!! Gays and straights could have the same amount of sexuality!! I know their not all over eachother and that's what I wrote in the edit!! You know what I'm just re-writing this whole thing since nobody is getting the point. I'd rather change this whole thing around than have everyone getting mad and saying it's rude to say it so now all of you could get on with your lives with a little less stress. THERE ARE YOU HAPPY NOW PEOPLE!!???!!

Heh, sorry if this offends you, but it was funny to see so many people exaggerating the comment you made xD I was like "When will they notice this is a debate?" 8D; *cough* Ohhkay, I say, let them be in the army, so that they won't be feeling they're being discriminated, and if two become too distracted, kick 'em out. Period.

PS: Would you do me a favour and add to the first post the reason why or why not gay people are admitted into the army? :3

There really isn't much of a debate to be had, and the comment was indeed silly.

People willing to play devil's advocate aside, the people who would come out in favor of suppression of gay rights are a silent and vast minority on this site, I think.

I think it was just a poorly formed topic for someone looking for an actual "debate."

Originally Posted by miss murder

That's the point I'm trying to give people!!! Gays and straights could have the same amount of sexuality!! I know their not all over eachother and that's what I wrote in the edit!! You know what I'm just re-writing this whole thing since nobody is getting the point. I'd rather change this whole thing around than have everyone getting mad and saying it's rude to say it so now all of you could get on with your lives with a little less stress. THERE ARE YOU HAPPY NOW PEOPLE!!???!!

We weren't upset in the first place (or at least I wasn't). Please don't get offended. This is a debate, so we're supposed to...you know, debate. If you have a different viewpoint, then by all means express it. Just because not everyone agrees with you doesn't mean they're getting mad at you, but you can't expect others to not express their own opinions in this forum just to avoid hurting your feelings (assuming they aren't flaming you, which no one was).

Originally Posted by goldfish67

You really think gays are THAT sexual?O_o

Originally Posted by Kinmotsu

That whole "They'll be having sex in the jeeps" argument is from the 70s for crying out loud.
Homosexuals are normal people! They're not hypersexual or hyperpromiscuous, at least, no moreso than the average heterosexual.

Originally Posted by Fabby

The idea that you shouldn't allow gays in the army because they'll be having sex all over the place... well, it's just ridiculous. We have female troops, don't we? e__e

Originally Posted by Volucria

... It's not because they're gay that they'll hump every soldier in a 15ft radius around them on a battlefield. If you would enter the army (assuming you're a girl and not a guy with a female avatar), would you be distracted and aroused by all the men around you? I think anyone, gay or not, has more important things to think of when they're in a war zone. Like, making sure they stay in one piece, maybe?

Originally Posted by Brinne Tanneson

People are getting mad because it's a ridiculous assumption to make in any capacity. Using it as an explanation for gays not to be in the military is as insulting as saying that women shouldn't be in the military because they'll be shagging all the men in the back of the tent.

Originally Posted by Miyaku

Straight people can be just as sexual as gays. Saying that gays will be distracted is purely ignorance.

... we weren't? ^_^'
My point of view is, that instead of being mature and get that she said it as a high possibility, everyone got offended and overreacted as if she said that all of them would. Please, nobody on menewsha is that umm... stupid? Homophobic? Or at least, I don't think so.
Going back to what should be an actual debate over if they should or should not [because what we've been debating on the first page was nothing more than a "debate" over how stupid her comment was], I had my thought already stated. Just like with anyone else, if they started being problematic, just discharge them. Period. We don't need reckless people in the army.

PS: Miss, adding some more info on the first post would be really helpful, as I said on my previous post. I don't know if it's legal to admit gay men in the army, so I don't know which tense to use ^^'

I guess I meant that I wasn't upset. This is a really sensitive topic for some people though, so careful wording is important in an opening post.

It's not legal to admit gay people into the army. They have a don't ask, don't tell policy. Basically, gays can be in the army if they don't tell anyone that they're gay. And no one is allowed to ask.

A debate, in this sense, would require the person with one viewpoint to refute the opposing viewpoint. The opposing viewpoint in this instance was that the gay folk would be screwing each other instead of doing their duty. It was a pretty easy viewpoint to refute, and it was the only one given.

What exactly is there to debate? It's fairly obvious that the consensus opinion is that gays should be openly allowed in the military. End of debate unless someone has an opposing viewpoint. Otherwise it's not a debate, it's just a hundred posts of people agreeing with each other.

Hmm true. Okay then, I'll have to do the nasty job of being the opposite just to make people think harder x)
I saw someone make a point about the "Don't tell, don't ask" rule. I say, being in the army takes up a lot of concentration, and getting feelings, even those of friendship, could endanger your concentration. What if the hypothetical individual was gay, single, and found another single gay in the army? It doesn't need to get romantical. They could get distracted just by the acts of friendship you see on the movies, like "Oh, my only friend here is in danger! I must endanger myself to save my friend" kind of thing.
Or maybe get too chatty. We know how we tend to stick to those like us when in a place full of people different than us. And that could become not only a distraction to the hypothetical individuals, but those around them too. The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule would serve as a method to keep soldiers from forming endangering bonds between each other and keep them concentrated in their duty.

PS: Can someone do me a favour and add a link to where the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule is stated? 'Cause I just made an argument out from thin air x_x [I should get rid of this bad habit... but I'm too lazy xP]

Here's a link to related laws: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/654.html

A lot of things bother me about this law, but what bothers me most is that if you marry someone of the same sex, you aren't allowed to serve.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

Hmm true. Okay then, I'll have to do the nasty job of being the opposite just to make people think harder x)
I saw someone make a point about the "Don't tell, don't ask" rule. I say, being in the army takes up a lot of concentration, and getting feelings, even those of friendship, could endanger your concentration. What if the hypothetical individual was gay, single, and found another single gay in the army? It doesn't need to get romantical. They could get distracted just by the acts of friendship you see on the movies, like "Oh, my only friend here is in danger! I must endanger myself to save my friend" kind of thing.
Or maybe get too chatty. We know how we tend to stick to those like us when in a place full of people different than us. And that could become not only a distraction to the hypothetical individuals, but those around them too. The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule would serve as a method to keep soldiers from forming endangering bonds between each other and keep them concentrated in their duty.

PS: Can someone do me a favour and add a link to where the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule is stated? 'Cause I just made an argument out from thin air x_x [I should get rid of this bad habit... but I'm too lazy xP]

While I commend you for at least attempting to play devil's advocate, that conjecture is simply a repackaged version of the original, particularly in the sense that everything you mentioned could (and probably does) happen between straight males in combat situations and male/female soldiers in the same unit.

wow....the fact that someone whould....start a topic like this is sad. Do people want to deprive people of their every rights because of whom they choose to love? Does the fact that I love women....and am a woman make me a bad person. I dont want to join the army but still....the world can be so childish sometimes....

It's not really sad to start a topic about this (in my opinion). Especially when it's considered that there are laws against it. Personally, I'd rather hear the other sides logical viewpoints about why they disagree than just knowing that some people think it's wrong...(although most of the people on Mene seem to be very liberal as far as gay rights go, so there hasn't been a ton of variation in the opinions).

well I am sadly aware of the laws but the fact that the topic is up for debate because of the laws is indeed sad....thats what I had meant