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Ehnvy
⊙ω⊙
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12-27-2008, 10:43 AM
First off, I am new to Mene, so I might have posted this in the wrong section, please do move it if that's the case!
I've been to various Avatar sites before such as Gaia, Zantarni, the list goes on and now I'm here. You know what bugs me a little?
There's always questers, posting/gaming their butts off and spending ages to fullfill their dream. Month, even years they persue their quest and most don't get anywhere.
Yet, there's newbies, walking into the place, selling art and they accumulate a fortune in days. There's art auctions on gaia, last time I checked art sold for well in the millions, on Zantarni it's the same, I'm not familiar how it's here, but seeing as the newbie guide explicitely states 'sell art' and the other options to gain gold are..alot less fortunate.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against people who can draw, gawd I get intensly starry eyed at good art, I just find it unfair, as there is nothing for non-artistic people to balance the situation. Also, I am by far not saying the artsies don't work for their fortune, they draw obviously and they SHOULD receive a fortune if their art is exceptional, however, what I have a problem with is the sheer difference in time.
Days > month/years.
Spoons:
What do you as a non artistic person think of this? Do you find it unfair that you have to spend so much longer on your dream?
What do you as an artistic person think of this issue?
Do you have any suggestion on how to balance this?
Disclaimer: Yes, I cannot draw (unless you call deformed stick figures art :insane:) however I am not interested in accumulating a fortune here, so I am in no way biased and demanding a quick way to get rich. (And I'd totally only draw things that would be against the TOS of any site out there, lol). I treat this site solemly as a chat site, not a dress up my avi site, so don't even bother to go there when responding to this thread.
Last edited by Ehnvy; 12-27-2008 at 10:49 AM..
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Dementes
(-.-)zzZ
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12-27-2008, 11:11 AM
i don't think it's unfair. it's the luck of the draw. i find it no different than the "real world", you know? someone with good business sense and a drive to achieve will do far better than i would when starting a business. not only do i not care that much, but i just don't have that knack... that said, i have nothing against those that do. the problem i have with that sort of thing is attitude toward the situation, but again, that's a "real world" problem not a mene thing.
in both real and virtual, it's all about taking the time to learn the tips and tricks and just putting a bit of time and effort into accumulating the gold. i am, of course, super jealous of those with any talent what so ever as i myself totally lack, but i am not jealous of the way they can use it to gain a little more or faster than i can. i think it's great. i wish i could do the same!
i don't think there's a balance. i think it's one of those things you either put up with or distance yourself from if you dislike it so much. *shrugs*
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Ehnvy
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12-27-2008, 11:26 AM
It's truly not about jealousy. If it were I'd be jealous of their ability to draw, not the ability to make money with said talent.
And yes, it is close to real life, but maybe it's just me, but I join online communities to, I wouldn't say flee, but to evade real life. And it's about the consistency here, all avatar sites seem to be the same in that aspect. None ever does something to balance that fact except for maybe Gaia, where you can run a successful graphics making shop but when it comes down to it it's all about the art.
If you can draw you're bound to be successful, if you can't? You better have no life and get posting 24/7. I apologise if this sounds like I'm jealous, or being petulant, english isn't my mother language and it's hard to convey the intention of my posts in a satisfactory way, so please do take my word when I say it's not out of jealousy and it's definitely not about me.
I just see all the questers persuing their dream, I feel bad for them when they spend month on obtaining an item yet, a newbie with skills can make five of said items in the same time.
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Elwing
(^._.^)ノ
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12-27-2008, 12:38 PM
I do not realy think it is unfair, the people that cannot draw could always try
other ways to get golds and such, by doing other stuff.
For me, I always used to envy the people who could draw so pretty with their tablets,
I wanted (still want actualy) one myself too someday. But yeah.
I can draw without one, but I don't have a scanner xD so yeah, issue 2.
But I STILL wanted to make money with arts.
Later, I started to pixel, and I was wondering if I should open a shop here on Menewsha
so I could practice. So I did that.
Now I am not only making a little more money, I am also getting to meet nice customers
that stick around for a while, I get to practice my pixel arts as well ^^
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Lovers Network
(-.-)zzZ
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12-27-2008, 12:42 PM
mmm i do see it as a disadvantage for the non-artistic...
though i am not afraid to say i am artistic, but i choose not to draw continuously for other users and charge millions for it, just coz i am lazy :P. but eh, so what i do to gain gold is buy the collectibles and others and sell them (im mainly on gaia).
but hey, when i first joined my online community, gaia, i didnt know about selling art and buying collectibles.
so all i did to complete my quests was keep posting, playing games etc but i always completed my quests in the end after some time of hard work!
well i guess thats why there are people who are kind enough to donate and help some people complete their quests :P
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Ehnvy
⊙ω⊙
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12-27-2008, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwing
I do not realy think it is unfair, the people that cannot draw could always try
other ways to get golds and such, by doing other stuff
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That's exactly the point I'm trying to get across. What IS there for non artistic people to do to accumulate the same amount of gold someone would gain from selling art in approximately the same amount of time? There is nothing. Nada.
I am talking about artistic people here, while I majorly talk about art this also does involve pixel artists.
I am not about who makes the most money, I am talking simply about the time spent to make money. Artsy people get 'rich' quick, non artsy people have to instead of their talent use time. And if non artsy people have limited i-net access it will take them even longer.
@ Lovers Network, yes I was struggling for that word. Disadvantage. Talented people have it easy on these sites, they don't only get squealing fanboys but also the dough. I've nutoriously helped Zantarni questers, even going so far as to spend real cash on gems to being able to donate to them, it just PAINS me to go into the art selling section there and someone getting a pair of artificial wings (one of the rarer items, worth millions) for doing art while there's a quester in the quest section questing for it for a year already.
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Sho-Shonojo
(っ◕‿◕)&...
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12-27-2008, 04:55 PM
I don't find it really unfair because the artists work hard to make that money, even if most of it is grossly overpriced. I tried selling avi art on Gaia once for... 2000 gold, I think. It was way to much work. I got way to many replies, probably because the price was real cheap, and it was difficult to be inspired to do all of them. People would get demanding, and run off without paying. D< It was awful, I quit, and it turns out I make more money when I'm not drawing. I had a little sketch thread going on here for a little while, but it died.
I never made a lot of money off it, but I never really put a lot of effort into it. I prefer chatting for gold, it's more fun and leaves me to draw what I really want to draw.
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Mystic
(ο・㉨・&...
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12-27-2008, 08:10 PM
Drawing is a learned skill, not something you're born with. The more you draw, the better someone gets at it. It's not unfair that people ,who work on their drawings more get money for their work. Even if all someone can draw is stick figures, you can find a way to make them cute and make some gold off them.
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Ehnvy
⊙ω⊙
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12-27-2008, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic
Drawing is a learned skill, not something you're born with. The more you draw, the better someone gets at it. It's not unfair that people ,who work on their drawings more get money for their work. Even if all someone can draw is stick figures, you can find a way to make them cute and make some gold off them.
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You can practise as much as you're humanly able to, without talent it'll be for naught, and that's a fact. And your last part just made me laugh. Right, in what kind of bubble do you live?
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Jenova4
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12-27-2008, 09:13 PM
I draw, but mainly for my own pleasure or for my RL occupation (Theatre Design)
I wouldn't have time to keep up on drawing Avi art for these sites, because then I wouldn't have a RL job....
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Your Paranoia Is Leaking
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12-27-2008, 09:15 PM
Not really... I like to think myself as artistic, but really, I've made very little out of it.
Too lazy.
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Ehnvy
⊙ω⊙
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12-27-2008, 09:16 PM
Please do respond to the spoons, not wether you have had any luck selling avatar art ^^;;
This thread is a black and white one about 2 different groups accumulating gold in very different timeframes. It's not about unsuccessful avatar shops >.<
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Your Paranoia Is Leaking
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12-27-2008, 09:20 PM
... Ok.
Quote:
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What do you as an artistic person think of this issue?
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It's not necessarily true. I'm an artistic person, and I don't make a fortune.
Quote:
Do you have any suggestion on how to balance this?
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Unless you can pixel banners/ layouts/ pixel dolls, etc, then no.
And I never said that I had an unsuccessful art shop. You have misinterpreted that.
Last edited by Your Paranoia Is Leaking; 12-27-2008 at 09:23 PM..
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Jenova4
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12-27-2008, 09:23 PM
Well, I do think that artistic people certainly have an easier time making loads of money, but some of the ones (who are particularly good) end up getting caught up with loads of requests, like Sho-shonojo did. They charge a lot because some people draw far slower than others, so it's more of a time/labor thing. Posting on a forum is rather easy, and if you get into an extended discussion forum, or you start writing a story/roleplay with others, it is a lot easier to earn loads of gold.
I can draw, as stated before, but it is easier for me to just post more rather than sell my art for gold. So I don't think it's really easier, it's just a different way to make money. The people who have it easy are those who have disposable income to buy the monthly items and sell it to others, like on Gaia.
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Elmira Swift
Curator of Alluvium
☆ Penpal
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12-27-2008, 10:40 PM
For me, I can barely draw a straight line, so gaming and posting are my means of acquiring gold here. Some people are artistic while others have the gift of gab. I'm far more creative verbally than via pixilated art. My artistic outlets don't translate well to the web...
Does that make it fair that others can create and sell for gold here? Why not - we can opt not to purchase the artwork, after all... it takes a huge amount of effort (as has been mentioned) for the artist to compose something that a user will be satisfied with.
Can you create things with code? Join a lengthy rp discussion thread? There is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.
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Omi
☆Artistic Angel
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12-27-2008, 10:42 PM
Quote:
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What do you as a non artistic person think of this? Do you find it unfair that you have to spend so much longer on your dream?
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Well, answering as non-artistly as I can, I don't think its a matter of fairness. One user has decided to use their time to learn a skill that can be harnessed to gain gold. Another user has decided to use their time in another fashion that also brings them enjoyment or validation (going to the movies, learning to skateboarding, hanging out with friends, etc.) Its a matter of sacrifice on both sides of the fence. What does each user sacrifice in order to gain something else- be it art skill or more friends/clothing/entertainment/parental approval?
If a user can provide a service and do it well, they should get paid accordingly (just like in real life). As an analogy, would it really be "fair" for someone to go to med school for almost a decade to get the same pay as someone with a week of training who flips burgers at McDonald's? No. Different jobs, different knowledge and extent of knowledge of those skills still have different payrates. A heart surgeon for two months gets paid less than a heart surgeon who's been in the practice twenty years.
As an aside, its could also be due to the economy on whichever site-- high demand for art + rarity of artists = high price of art.
If more artists popped up, it might be safe to say that the prices would decrease a bit once the demand drops. And, of course, vice versa. Its probably not as large a factor but it does play some part.
Quote:
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What do you as an artistic person think of this issue?
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Art is an easy service to provide for gold on forums/MMORPGs/etc. Its easy to deliver to the customer when finished by means of a monitor screen. Other services may or may not be so easy to deliver and therefore aren't in high demand do to that complexity.
Quote:
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Do you have any suggestion on how to balance this?
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Its not a manner of "balancing" things so much as people finding their niche and offering services that people want and are easy to deliver to their prospective customers. If someone can figure out a service to provide that can be displayed through a monitor, speakers, or other computer enabled device, then I think they make some gold off of it somehow. That's where raffles, playing the economy/exchange, pet shops, forum games (like assassin, fox hunt, etc.) come in. You don't necessarily have to do fancy art for them but provide entertainment value from the rest of the "product" by requiring the user to interact somehow. It takes some thinking outside of the box to figure out what to do sometimes.
Last edited by Omi; 12-28-2008 at 09:17 AM..
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Xia.
(-.-)zzZ
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12-27-2008, 10:57 PM
Well, there's exchanging...
But I personally do NOT like exchanging.
e___e;;
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Mystic
(ο・㉨・&...
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12-28-2008, 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehnvy
You can practise as much as you're humanly able to, without talent it'll be for naught, and that's a fact. And your last part just made me laugh. Right, in what kind of bubble do you live?
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Maybe it's because on another avatar site, I know people that do make gold off of doing stick figures. Granted, they put a little time into them and make them look half way decent, but they're still just stick figures.
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[ VO ]
Dead Account Holder
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12-28-2008, 02:32 AM
I would have to agree with you on that. Artistic people have the higher advantage. Though, they work hard.
In a way, it evens its self out.. Almost.
When I draw, I spend days, sometimes weeks.. and once, a little over a month.. working on it.
I put a lot of hard work into it.. Yes, it does take me faster then a Year to get what I would like.. But when Life gives you lemons, Make lemon-Aid. <3
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LoversEnd
It is only until you see the sun...
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12-28-2008, 02:47 AM
I honestly don't like it either, but some people can draw, others can't. You could go and make graphics for people, like wishlist graphics, banners, pixels, whatever. I make userbars cause I can't draw worth crap. Posting and gaming are other ways to get gold, I know that the time probably won't change, but hey, that's how it goes. Also, at events, like the Winter one going on now, grabs two + sets of the event items and you can sell them later to people who want them.
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jupiter
inactive account
☆☆
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12-28-2008, 03:08 AM
I've never thought about it like that.
There are a lot of little things you can do for some extra online currency; what an "artist" does, is provide a service. What you're able to do on these sites is provide a service of virtually any kind.
Whether it's advice, designing, artistic, anything really.
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unc0ntainable
(-.-)zzZ
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12-28-2008, 03:15 AM
I feel the same way that you feel right now,
But its not that i can't draw, but i just don't have the time or the program to do does fancy art work that these drawers have in gaia or menewsha.
I just take it as it is. For my personal opinion I'd rather spend my time out instead of having a second job such as drawing for other people. Well that's what i just wanted to say. Btw, good topic ;)
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Vickicat
(っ◕‿◕)&...
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12-28-2008, 04:06 AM
I kind of feel the same way. On avatar sites it seems nearly everyone is an artist. I'm not real great at art. I used to love it, but I realized I wasn't that great at it and my interest in it became less and less. I especially am not good at drawing people so avatar art is out of the question. It is way easier for people who can do this to get money, I have to earn everything the hard way. And there are always art contests and such during events and rarely anything for people who are not artists. Over on Roliana there's a topic giving out platinums to people who can do good art. I struggle to even find someone who will sell me one platinum on that site and people are getting them for free and I have no chance of that. One thing that made me happy about Menewsha was that during one of their events they had a photography contest. I was so glad to finally see a contest I was able to participate in, I like taking pictures and I have a few that I am quite proud of. The one disappointment was that it seemed nearly everyone on the site entered that contest, while the other contests had less entries, and many people entered ten or more pictures, so I stood no chance. It was still nice to have that opportunity though, and I hope to see it again in the future, though I'd like to see the amount of photo entries per person to be limited.
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juniper_silver
\ (•◡•) /
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12-28-2008, 08:48 AM
I agree that artists have an advantage, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Like it or not, the real world does come into play even on avatar sites. For example, maybe there's someone who's really great at expressing themselves and putting themselves out there to meet new people. Those people will probably make more friends than someone who doesn't have the same social skills. They have an advantage, but it's not like they should hold themselves back so that it's all even. I think that in the same way, artists shouldn't have to hold themselves back from making a bunch of gold just because everyone else can't do the same.
And I actually have seen people make money off of art that's not astounding (including myself). If you make it cheap enough, someone will buy it. I sold art for 50 gold and I'm not an amazing artist. Of course, people who are more talented will make a bit more than 50 gold per drawing, but there could be disadvantages that we don't know about. Maybe they're a perfectionist and did 38 drawings before they thought one was good enough. Maybe they use really expensive pens that they have to pay a lot of money for.
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d2hiriyuu
(。・ω・&...
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12-28-2008, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehnvy
Spoons:
What do you as a non artistic person think of this? Do you find it unfair that you have to spend so much longer on your dream?
What do you as an artistic person think of this issue?
Do you have any suggestion on how to balance this?
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I am an artistic person, I just don't sell art here on mene. I like the hard time of building up the gold. also the amount people get for the hours it takes for one to draw good art in exchange for spending time online, I personally think my time is better spent getting gold. As far as spending long time on my dream, in the end, I decided that it was worth the saving up, I have spent a long time getting items, so are impossible, but the pricey ones after a long time, I could get.
As for how to balance this, um, no, it is seemingly balanced.
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