Originally Posted by Fabby

@wandering echo- I can't say I have the best knowledge of worldwide history, but I'm pretty sure white people have done way more enslaving and oppressing than anyone else. Certainly other races have their pitfalls too, but I can't think of another race who's contributed to as much massive-scale genocide as we have.
We didn't even help OURSELVES properly after New Orleans. I don't know exactly how much helping we do to other countries in comparison to others, but it should be taken into account that America has far more resources than most of the world. It's only sensible that we should help, really.

WE didn't help New Orleans? No, the biggest problem in the beginning was the stupid governor they had and the way the officials were doing things THERE. The rest of the country was all ready and willing, but were hindered by the local officials. As for how much help they got, up until recently, and maybe still today, did you know that people from there who were dislocated were still living in housing that was provided by FEMA? Many of them didn't/don't want to help themselves, they want to live off whatever they can get from everyone else and the government for as long as they can. You should also remember the biggest problem with New Orleans wasn't the hurricane, it was the levy's breaking. There were areas that were hit just as hard (New Orleans wasn't even the landfall point) and many of those people were virtually forgotten about because of all the hooping and hollering over New Orleans.

I have to say, at least the officials in Florida were on top of things. I was there in 2004 when four powerful hurricanes went through that state, three of which pretty much intersected about 15 miles from where I lived at the time. One thing that I thought highly of was how the governor was on the TV talking about the upcoming storm at the time and he was giving his message in both English AND Spanish (heavy hispanic population there). Now I hate Jeb Bush, and I firmly believe in "learn the language if you're going to live here", but what impressed me was that he didn't let any of that get in his way when it came to public safety at the moment. Side note-it sounded like pretty good Spanish at that, not all broken up.

Originally Posted by Racheal

"Pride goes before a fall."

One of the few truths from the bible that i still hold dear to my heart.

Not always true... some people like myself KNOW how to manage their pride as to not let it trip them up.... O NOEZ! AN EZEPSHUN 2 DA RUL!11!1

And speaking of (insert marginalized group) pride, my pride is very quiet and practically unnoticeable if you don't know what to look for--it can be mistaken for confidence. I don't have to say "Black pride" or "I'm proud to be Black" to get away with it. I love and cherish what I am--hold my head up high and smile. It works for me because I can fight off shame and keep anti-pride people from shitting bricks at the notion that people don't always feel pride for accomplishment.

Originally Posted by Sizzla

Thank you for keeping things civil Infinitys. Cheya, I'll request the same from you. Please keep things civil and if Infinitys doesn't want to be called honey, I'd recommend you not call her that to prevent things from getting more heated. :yes:

Honestly I'm NOT used to babying people OR softening up my opinions for the oversensitive; I'm really not. But I'll try to tip-toe around how I really feel if she's that affected by it and has special needs.

To understand why it is more appropriate for something such as gay pride or black pride than it is for white pride, you need to understand why it is that there has been recent movements for such things. As the groups which celebrate their pride have commonly been subordinated in society the point of this is to try and overcome it and achieve equality with the hegemonic group in society (namely 'whites') It is for this reason that it is discriminative to try and push for a 'white pride', as they already enjoy the hegemonic position in society.

Originally Posted by Infinitys Echo

]
I AM partial to having national pride though. All the others, in my opinion, only serve to separate us as a country, and I believe we, as a country, need to stand together.

This part of your post is quite a telling one of your misunderstandings of the situation. That you would actively encourage forced assimilation and ethnocide in the face of events which are designed to both recognize the devastating impact these have had on peoples and (hopefully) overcome them, is quite discouraging. You even follow it up by expressing we can do more as a peoples. You try and express it like it is a positive thing, although after reading your comment on eliminating peoples chances to give their cultural identities equal standing in society with the hegemonic one, I wonder whether what you are truly supporting is internal colonialism.

@reddeath: The moment you decide you want to stay in the US and make a life there, you sign these papers that declare you're a US citizen, not a China citizen, or a Mexican citizen, or a Germano-Ecuadorian citizen, as far as I know. So, as far as I'm concerned, they agree that they're no longer part of their ethnicities [as a community/nationality anyway, the race you're born with will stay with you until you die], and are part of the US, which, of course, if it wants to stay as strong as when they decided it would be better to live in the US and not in their natal country, they would have to stay together so to not be defeated by any menace.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

@reddeath: The moment you decide you want to stay in the US and make a life there, you sign these papers that declare you're a US citizen, not a China citizen, or a Mexican citizen, or a Germano-Ecuadorian citizen, as far as I know. So, as far as I'm concerned, they agree that they're no longer part of their ethnicities [as a community/nationality anyway, the race you're born with will stay with you until you die], and are part of the US, which, of course, if it wants to stay as strong as when they decided it would be better to live in the US and not in their natal country, they would have to stay together so to not be defeated by any menace.

Okay I can see what you are saying here, that if someone of their own free will chooses to migrate to U.S.A they should be prepared to assimilate into U.S.A culture. A few questions for you then, what about the people who are already in U.S.A, the native Americans and refugees?

On a side note there are is no such thing as a biological race. While I agree we have social races in society these have no grounding in biology in the slightest. http://www.understandingrace.org/

I know. Race is just a social construct. Then explain me why they have pride on producing more melanin than "whites", some even to the point of becoming racist against whites? As I stated before, I don't see the reason to feel proud of something you didn't do. I understand a parent being proud of their child because they raised him/her to be like that. But being proud to be black / hispanic / asian, you didn't achieve to be born that way. If someone is proud of being very beautiful, yuo would call them superficial.

Thing is, no, being proud of being a good american citizen doesn't promote ethnocide. Nobody can change where you were born or what are your roots. Even if I were to become an american citizen, my documents would still state that I was born in Guayaquil, Ecuador, and have ecuadorian and german roots. Should I be proud that I have german roots? Why, I didn't choose to have german roots. I choose to make a better life in the US, and even if I were born in the US, it would state that my parent / grandparents / great-grandparents were from somewhere else. Because the genetical roots doesn't become american when you're born in the US, they change when your family mixes with americans, and then you would still have foreigner blood in you.*

*I don't live in the US, sorry if I don't express myself right.

You still have the genes, that's what defines your ethnicity.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

I know. Race is just a social construct. Then explain me why they have pride on producing more melanin than "whites"?

Although you seem to be misunderstanding what these pride parades are about. They are not about expressing that they are better than other ethnic/national groups. But rather it is directly challenging the social stratification, in particular race ideology which for so long has attempted to dictate that white culture belongs at the top and everything else below it. By celebrating their culture and identity, they are attempting to put themselves on equal footing with the hegemonic culture in society. This has been getting more support as it is become more widely known that the devastating effects of forced assimilation and ethnocide commonly result in people being overrepresented in negative statistics.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

Thing is, no, being proud of being a good american citizen doesn't promote ethnocide.

Being a good American does not in itself promote ethnocide anymore than being a good Ju|hoansi or a good Nuer. But it begins to promote ethnocide when on starts to draw too deeply on the Nation Building theories which dictate that all people in a Nation should have the same (or as close as possible) culture. Quite commonly to reach these ends this involves ethnocide and forced assimilation of those who do not happen to enjoy the status of hegemonic culture in society. Even when it is not directly put in place (such as policies banning cultural practices of peoples) because of the hegemonic position of the dominant culture over the State this biases the way goods and services are provided to the people.

As for your assertion that genes differentiate ethnicities I would strongly disagree with that. Just as 'races' do not have sufficient biological boundaries to justify their use, ethnic groups can not be differentiated by biological boundaries either. Indeed I would push that the best way of identifying different ethnic groups from each other is by looking at the use of internal and external identification when it comes to the creation and maintenance of boundaries.


Side note: Whenever I use the term "culture" I do so in its anthropological sense, namely when it is

"the learned, shared understandings among a group of people about how to behave and what everything means”

(Omohundro (2008) p.27).

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

I know. Race is just a social construct. Then explain me why they have pride on producing more melanin than "whites", some even to the point of becoming racist against whites? As I stated before, I don't see the reason to feel proud of something you didn't do. I understand a parent being proud of their child because they raised him/her to be like that. But being proud to be black / hispanic / asian, you didn't achieve to be born that way. If someone is proud of being very beautiful, yuo would call them superficial.

Thing is, no, being proud of being a good american citizen doesn't promote ethnocide. Nobody can change where you were born or what are your roots. Even if I were to become an american citizen, my documents would still state that I was born in Guayaquil, Ecuador, and have ecuadorian and german roots. Should I be proud that I have german roots? Why, I didn't choose to have german roots. I choose to make a better life in the US, and even if I were born in the US, it would state that my parent / grandparents / great-grandparents were from somewhere else. Because the genetical roots doesn't become american when you're born in the US, they change when your family mixes with americans, and then you would still have foreigner blood in you.*

*I don't live in the US, sorry if I don't express myself right.

You still have the genes, that's what defines your ethnicity.

I am very proud of ALL of my roots. I feel pride for the accomplishments and achievements of all of the cultures that make up me. I also feel their sorrows and feel embarrassed for their failings. I love the feeling of being able to meet with the peoples of my shared cultures, lock arms with them and let them know that they are not alone. This is the type of pride that people want to express in these groups. Unfortunately they tend to fail and let the exclusionary type of pride creep in.

Humans are hardwired to have an "us vs. them" mentality. Unfortunately most of the world can't recognize that they suffer from this "disease" and that's what creates conflict.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

Then explain me why they have pride on producing more melanin than "whites", some even to the point of becoming racist against whites?

Because some do, some don't.... and consider that SOME Whites do the same thing too.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

As I stated before, I don't see the reason to feel proud of something you didn't do.

Consider: pride is NOT always about what you do aka accomplishment. Also consider: pride is an emotion.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

I understand a parent being proud of their child because they raised him/her to be like that.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

But being proud to be black / hispanic / asian, you didn't achieve to be born that way.

I'll be proud to be Black as long as there are strong stances against the worth of Black in all aspects of society. If you don't like that, I'm sorry.

There are others who are proud of being Asian, Latin, homosexual, women and anyone else... and why? Because their worth in ALL aspects of society is also in question.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

If someone is proud of being very beautiful, yuo would call them superficial.

I feel that the culture of teaching people to be self-depreciating and basically NOT love themselves for who they are and what they look like NEEDS to take a hike off the highest cliff.

@Reddeath:Then it shouldn't be "Black Pride". A title such as "Black Culture awareness" or "Hegemonic Society Celebration" would sound way less competitive and dreading for superioritism, which is what you do when you feel pride.

pride
Noun
1. satisfaction in one's own or another's success or achievements: his obvious pride in his son's achievements
2. an excessively high opinion of oneself
3. a sense of dignity and self-respect: he must swallow his pride and ally himself with his political enemies
4. one of the better or most admirable parts of something: the pride of the main courses is the Japanese fish and vegetable tempura
5. a group of lions
6. pride and joy the main source of pride: the car was his pride and joy
7. pride of place the most important position
Verb
[priding, prided]
(foll. by on, upon)to take pride in (oneself) for [Old English prȳde]

Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

All of these definitions [cept the flock of lions one] refer to being and/or feeling "better" than the rest in some sense.

And if I misunderstand parades, you misunderstand National pride which Echo referred to. As far as I know, it's about celebrating all the cultures the US encompasses, not it's stereotypes.


@kidsis: You just showed what you called a "disease". Feeling good about their accomplishements and embarrassment at their failures could either be "emphaty" when it's about someone, or segregating the world into an "us and them" when you make yourself part of a group, and not accept that even though you share a cultural background, you're all individuals with different views.

@Cheya: Because we're humans. All humans are the same and/or suffer the same probabilities personality-wise, with or without skin difference.

Pride is an emotion, which is only satisfactiry and reasonable when it's about your accomplishments, in my opinion.

You're proud of being black? Before I make assumptions, let me ask: You're proud because you were born like that, or because you're an active figure in the war against oppression?

And sorry if I didn't express myself right, when I mentioned the hypothetical case of someone feeling proud of being born blonde, blue-eyed, and with fine facial and body features, you would think of them as superficial and as someone with a superiority-complex.

If everyone is special, then no one's special.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

@Cheya: Because we're humans. All humans are the same and/or suffer the same probabilities personality-wise, with or without skin difference.

Pride is an emotion, which is only satisfactiry and reasonable when it's about your accomplishments, in my opinion.

You're proud of being black? Before I make assumptions, let me ask: You're proud because you were born like that, or because you're an active figure in the war against oppression?

And sorry if I didn't express myself right, when I mentioned the hypothetical case of someone feeling proud of being born blonde, blue-eyed, and with fine facial and body features, you would think of them as superficial and as someone with a superiority-complex.

If everyone is special, then no one's special.

Firstly it's hard to rationalize an emotion as well as stop feeling it for the sake of someone's discomfort of anyone feeling that certain emotion for reasons that someone doesn't approve of personally.

Secondly here's what you need to understand about me and "Black". I'm bi-racial, but I've accepted the fact that socially and visually I can't fit in with Whites (except for my own mother who is White). Thus I regard myself as Black.

I grew up with the feeling and daily reinforcement from everywhere that Black is less than--that Black was the bottom of the barrel. I grew up seeing myself as inferior in both looks and worth due to being Black. It was a shitty existence. I used to wish I was NOT Black and that I could have straight hair, lighter skin, blue eyes... all of that stuff you don't normally find in Blacks.

It took me a VERY long time to break out of that mindset and start seeing Black features as no better or worse than any other races' features. It took me even longer to START appreciating those features and not regard them as ugly and undesirable.

That is where the pride came from--a refusal of the negativity I grew up with regarding my race--it was a coping mechanism. I do not feel ashamed anymore (or as much as I used to be) about my looks that I got from being born Black.

But not only that, I've come back to the Black community instead of shutting myself away and pretending that if there was problem there I wasn't connected to it at all (example(s): AIDs and poverty being presented as a Black problem or being viewed as monkeys, apes and gorillas).

I see now that because I'm socially and visually viewed as Black, I don't get a say as to what images I'm connected with unless I help improve said image or dispel the ignorance that gave rise to those images. Thus I'm always fighting against systematic and institutional oppression as well as ignorance that is prevalent in real life and online communities.

Aesthetics, stereotypes and other things like that... I as a Black am NO longer ashamed, but as I said before, I show pride in ways that the anti-pride camp would miss. My pride is quiet and effective--it keeps me from falling apart on the inside and it keeps the anti-pride police from harassing me and telling what I can or can't feel because they don't find it acceptable.

In the end, there's NO way to police how and why people feel. If there was, I'd be right there for human rights questioning the ethics of enforcing that on people. Solution: live and let live.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

@Reddeath:Then it shouldn't be "Black Pride". A title such as "Black Culture awareness" or "Hegemonic Society Celebration" would sound way less competitive and dreading for superioritism, which is what you do when you feel pride.



All of these definitions [cept the flock of lions one] refer to being and/or feeling "better" than the rest in some sense.

And if I misunderstand parades, you misunderstand National pride which Echo referred to. As far as I know, it's about celebrating all the cultures the US encompasses, not it's stereotypes.

Although the first problem I notice is that you are taking a definition from a general dictionary. Doing so can be quite problematic at times. As expressed by Dr Margaret Trawick

Now don't go seeking answers in the dictionary- that is a bad habit

She is not asserting that dictionaries are of no use, but rather when you should be cautious in using them to get an understanding of a social phenomenon. In this instance here in the case of pride parades etc, the definition does not take any account of the socio-political causes behind the parades. They are intended to challenge and (hopefully) undermine the race ideology which makes the system of social stratification possible.

Much in the same way that Brown pride was intended to restore some power to the Maori in Aotearoa, New Zealand. They had suffered over 100 years of assault on their culture. With Pakeha culture enjoying the hegemonic position in society, their culture was looked down on as being 'primitive', 'backwards' and counter productive to the 'development' of the country. As a result there was a time when speaking their language was made illegal in certain public places. As I have mentioned earlier the effect of this was for them to experience loss of identity and to become extremely disenfranchised in a system dominated by a foreign culture.

As for the part on Nation pride, I do not believe I have specifically attempted to define that as of yet. It is also entirely possible that if I did try to define it, there would be differences in definition between myself and Echo. For a start I imagine we would be using different definitions of nation. What they refer to as nation, I would call either a nation-state or a state. As a nation does not always mean a country, for instance take a look at the 4th world. They are themselves nations, yet they are inside other countries.

Originally Posted by reddeath26

To understand why it is more appropriate for something such as gay pride or black pride than it is for white pride, you need to understand why it is that there has been recent movements for such things. As the groups which celebrate their pride have commonly been subordinated in society the point of this is to try and overcome it and achieve equality with the hegemonic group in society (namely 'whites') It is for this reason that it is discriminative to try and push for a 'white pride', as they already enjoy the hegemonic position in society.

This part of your post is quite a telling one of your misunderstandings of the situation. That you would actively encourage forced assimilation and ethnocide in the face of events which are designed to both recognize the devastating impact these have had on peoples and (hopefully) overcome them, is quite discouraging. You even follow it up by expressing we can do more as a peoples. You try and express it like it is a positive thing, although after reading your comment on eliminating peoples chances to give their cultural identities equal standing in society with the hegemonic one, I wonder whether what you are truly supporting is internal colonialism.

It seems a lot of this comes down to personal opinions. While I may agree with your reason as to why the groups originally began to celebrate their pride, I don't agree that that is what it's all about at this point. The meaning behind it is a good reason, but I think a lot of the original meaning has been lost or forgotten. You may say that's why they are even more needed now, and I would agree IF those were the meanings and feelings that were behind it today. I don't think that's the case anymore.

As for the national pride, I'll stand by that statement. Maybe it is you who has misunderstood my meaning and feelings about it. I'll try to explain. We SHOULD stand together as Americans. If we don't, we will be at risk for others to come in and take us over. Our country has done many evils, but we have also done many good things as well. We, as Americans, just like many races, religions, sexes, and sexual preferences, are stereo typed as well, and remembered more for our bad than our good. But my "pride" for my country isn't really based on that type of thing. It IS more based on doing it for our own protection, our way of life, and our freedoms , that I don't want to see us lose. We have achieved many great things. Our country is a mixture of many different races, religions, and cultures, and each of them makes us what we are. We don't have to change what our individual cultures or ethnicities are to stand together for our freedoms as a a country, nation, and people.

Originally Posted by reddeath26

Okay I can see what you are saying here, that if someone of their own free will chooses to migrate to U.S.A they should be prepared to assimilate into U.S.A culture. A few questions for you then, what about the people who are already in U.S.A, the native Americans and refugees?

On a side note there are is no such thing as a biological race. While I agree we have social races in society these have no grounding in biology in the slightest. http://www.understandingrace.org/

Assimilate? We aren't the borg :) (a little humor here, not meant as a smart aleck remark). As I mentioned above, we don't need to change who we are to be Americans, we CAN be both. If you are a citizen of this country, you should be willing to abide by our laws and our way of life, meaning our freedoms, our Constitution, our Declaration of Independence. My late husband identified with being Puerto Rican and American. During a conversation one day I gave a (silly) hypothetical situation and asked "If the U.S. and Puerto Rico were to go to war, who's side would you fight with?" He looked down at his uniform (active army at the time, retired after 20 years), pointed to the tag which read U.S. Army, gave me an evil look, and asked "what do you think?" He never lost any of his culture by being American.

Our government may be screwed up, and they ARE suppose to represent us as people, so I can understand how easy it would be to see all Americans as bad if we are judged by our government. My opinion is that right now, our government is NOT a true representation of the American people, and THAT'S another debate and argument that would need it's own thread :).

I'm not sure what you meant when you asked about the native Americans and refugees.

As for biological differences among races, that may be correct in the manner that we all have the same organs and limbs, etc. There are three distinct races however, caucasoid, negroid, and mongoloid, and there are physical differences. At least, that's what I was taught in school, and still seems to be accepted.

@Cheya: Then, you don't feel pride in being black. You feel pride of that process of self-improvement. You feel pride of being an example to society.

And if you can't control pride, you can control where to flaunt it.

@Reddeath: I used the dictionary because no matter where you apply the word, it will always have a definite meaning [that unless you use it in a slang manner, which I don't think it's the case, is it?].

Thing is, using a word as "Pride" can be taken the wrong way. One of the meanings "an excessively high opinion of oneself" can sound as if that group believed they were superior than the hegemonic group and result in them being offended and take a more staunch stance about their segregative beliefs.

That plus, the ideology doesn't even have to do with "pride", but more like social equality.

Originally Posted by reddeath26

This part of your post is quite a telling one of your misunderstandings of the situation. That you would actively encourage forced assimilation and ethnocide in the face of events which are designed to both recognize the devastating impact these have had on peoples and (hopefully) overcome them, is quite discouraging. You even follow it up by expressing we can do more as a peoples. You try and express it like it is a positive thing, although after reading your comment on eliminating peoples chances to give their cultural identities equal standing in society with the hegemonic one, I wonder whether what you are truly supporting is internal colonialism.

I believe you did try to define National Pride. And hell, first time I hear "National" isn't "a matter pertaining to one country", but rather about groups of them. I suspect a different connotation to "national" in English than it does in my language, may I check the dictionary on that?

Originally Posted by Infinitys Echo

It seems a lot of this comes down to personal opinions. While I may agree with your reason as to why the groups originally began to celebrate their pride, I don't agree that that is what it's all about at this point. The meaning behind it is a good reason, but I think a lot of the original meaning has been lost or forgotten. You may say that's why they are even more needed now, and I would agree IF those were the meanings and feelings that were behind it today. I don't think that's the case anymore.

Although I would disagree with you that their purpose has changed at all. While I do not begin to pretend that each and every single person who attends these parades will have the same intentions (as I am hardly omnipotent), the general aim of them has remained the same. The reasons for this are that sadly the inequalities which caused them to be required still exist in society.

Originally Posted by Infinitys Echo

Our government may be screwed up, and they ARE suppose to represent us as people, so I can understand how easy it would be to see all Americans as bad if we are judged by our government. My opinion is that right now, our government is NOT a true representation of the American people, and THAT'S another debate and argument that would need it's own thread :).

Although I fully acknowledge that many problems I raise in regards to U.S.A are highly applicable to many other countries. Indeed when and where I see the opportunity I will try and swing the location to an area which I have studied in more detail. I would also point out that my country, Aotearoa New Zealand has many problems as well.

Originally Posted by Infinitys Echo

I'm not sure what you meant when you asked about the native Americans and refugees.

This is when I misunderstood what you were meaning by standing together as a Nation. As I (falsely) assumed you were making a reference to the Nation Building theory, which asserts a Nation requires a shared identity which must override all other identities which people hold. To this end education is commonly used for indoctrination, often in combination with other policies. A nice recent example of this can be seen in the Pacific Islands with countries such as the Cook Islands.

Originally Posted by Infinitys Echo

As for biological differences among races, that may be correct in the manner that we all have the same organs and limbs, etc. There are three distinct races however, caucasoid, negroid, and mongoloid, and there are physical differences. At least, that's what I was taught in school, and still seems to be accepted.

Actually I would disagree that what you were taught is accepted. For over 100 years Anthropology has been aware that there are no biological boundaries sufficient to warrant the use of human races. Although as there is a topic on this already, it might be nice to debate it there?

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

[COLOR="Indigo"]
@Reddeath: I used the dictionary because no matter where you apply the word, it will always have a definite meaning [that unless you use it in a slang manner, which I don't think it's the case, is it?].

Although my point is that the dictionary gives a highly limited understanding of a word which in many instances can be highly misleading. Take for instance the definition of "communism" or even that of "Shaman" both of them insufficiently define their term. For instance with communism I see no mentioned at all of historical materialism, or that it was the believed final stage of social evolution. Even with Shaman we see supposed (and false) assumptions about what a Shaman is. Taking but a short time to read academic text on Shaman and you will find how misleading and ethnocentric it is. Although returning to my point on using pride too literally to dismiss the pride parades. It does not on its own take any account of the socio-political reasons why they are holding the parade. In which they are directly challenging the social stratification system which is in place. Their use of pride is quite fitting as how better to challenge a system which holds that due to their status they are at the bottom, than by expressing great pride in their identity. After all according to race ideology they are supposed to feel ashamed of themselves and fit at the bottom of the hierarchical chain.

As for the definition you have provided by myself, that was not me referring to National identities but rather to ethnic groups. I do not use Nation in the sense where it refers to a Nation-state (aka a country). But rather in the sense where it refers to a group of people, as a quick look over the world shows that Nation States do not always align very well with the way that people see themselves. For instance the West Papuans of Indonesia are a nation in themselves despite the fact they were taken into the country of Indonesia, the same holds true to the Tibetans, Maori of Aotearoa New Zealand, the Native Americans in the Americas and many other peoples.

Ohhkay then, so nation would be a social or ethnic identity?

I'll just limit myself to point out that the word "pride" can be misunderstood quite easily. I believe pride is the conviction of one's superiority, while you equal it to a healthy self-steem. These parades should have names that show what they're really about, equality, not how they're attempting to fight race ideology.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

Ohhkay then, so nation would be a social or ethnic identity?

That would be correct, just as a Nation-State is when the boundaries of a State are one in the same as the boundaries of a Nation. This distinction is something I consider quite important as it does get quite annoying coming accross people who can not differentiate between a "State", a "Nation" and a "Nation-State".

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

I'll just limit myself to point out that the word "pride" can be misunderstood quite easily. I believe pride is the conviction of one's superiority, while you equal it to a healthy self-steem. These parades should have names that show what they're really about, equality, not how they're attempting to fight race ideology.

Although as I have continuously been pointing out you need to understand them in their own political and social context. I am also curious as to how you believe they can restore equality without fighting race ideology. As race ideology is the fuel which burns in the system of social stratification.

Well, I know I personally would take way better a "This discrimination is not right, we're equal humans!" than a "We're black, so what? I'm proud of being born like this!"

The word "fight" sparks violence in the listeners mind. The word "Change", however, got Obama to presidential seat.

Originally Posted by Kah Hilzin-Ec

Well, I know I personally would take way better a "This discrimination is not right, we're equal humans!" than a "We're black, so what? I'm proud of being born like this!"

The word "fight" sparks violence in the listeners mind. The word "Change", however, got Obama to presidential seat.

Although I imagine that being provocative is in fact an effective way of bringing their message to the mainstream and laypersons. After all it is worth remembering that many people still believe the myths of race and this consequently shapes their social behaviours. Even as recent as 2006, a book was published in Aotearoa, New Zealand entitled "Culture Speaks". In this book they found that through their research into classrooms that racism was still heavily limiting the potential of Maori to achieve in the classroom.

As for Obama, as great as he may be, he does not have the ability to change the culture of an entire nation. There will still be news articles and reports which attempt to explain why certain peoples are overrepresented in negative statistics. It seems some people will look at anything other than social causes.

Here in Latin America there's the stereotype that black people are provocative and always looking for / sparking fight, and being like that when trying to get their message across, might make a lot of people hear, but would also enforce that stereotype.

And when putting that message, I meant that this word, which he constantly used while on campaign, gave people a positive look on him. I understand though, that no lone person can change a whole culture.

I refuse to not be proud of being who I am. My family tree goes directly back to BEFORE the English settlers ever set eyes on the "new world". The only holidays I celebrate are New Years, Valentines, St Patrick's, Easter, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, Fourth of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.
What bothers me is the fact that I'm expected to celebrate Cinco de Mayo, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, black history month, etc. (And in my town, yes I am expected to do so.) I don't, and I won't. It feels hypocritical. I was unemployed for six years. I have a college degree, experience, advanced training and certifications, and yet, because I only speak English, I couldn't get a job.

I don't mind if people celebrate their heritage. By all means, knock yourself out. But don't call me racist because I don't.

Originally Posted by Neurotic Cupcake

I think that there should be a Human pride month, seriously. A month where people celebrate being alive and united as one, instead of being different. If you really think about it, that is what everyone really needs. To come together and accept each other for who we are. Yes our differences make us great but, if you look closer we're not so different from each other.

I like that idea.Individual holidays are great and all,but to celebrate as a whole will make us one step closer to being a better race of people(meaning humanity)

Oh!And sorry if I came in a little late.I was just looking around,and I found this,and started reading everyone's post x3

Originally Posted by Sinister Sassy

I refuse to not be proud of being who I am. My family tree goes directly back to BEFORE the English settlers ever set eyes on the "new world". The only holidays I celebrate are New Years, Valentines, St Patrick's, Easter, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, Fourth of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.
What bothers me is the fact that I'm expected to celebrate Cinco de Mayo, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, black history month, etc. (And in my town, yes I am expected to do so.) I don't, and I won't. It feels hypocritical. I was unemployed for six years. I have a college degree, experience, advanced training and certifications, and yet, because I only speak English, I couldn't get a job.

I don't mind if people celebrate their heritage. By all means, knock yourself out. But don't call me racist because I don't.

Are you seriously questioning whether having more languages than English should be a requirement for a job? I think if you were to take but a glance around the world you will find many instances where a persons native language is not sufficient enough for them to get employment. I have even heard of instances where a person was required to speak upwards of 3 or 4 languages to have a job.

What about songs like "Proud to be an American?" Didn't that top the charts only a few years back? o_o

Regardless, we don't have a white history month because all year long we study the history of white people, at least in the US. We can't help it. Our heritage is European, which for the large part of history is white. The reason we have courses like "African American Studies" and "Asian Studies" is because "American Studies" in America is the same as "American History." If you went overseas, there would be courses in most universities for "American Studies," but their local history would just be "history." Its a matter of region, not racism.

And as for people getting mad at us for being white, my guess is that they're not mad at us for being white at all. Whenever there's a rally or a parade regarding race, people get caught up in it and lose themselves. The best we can do is not get mad at them and try to enjoy ourselves.

Though, people who get mad at "the white man" because white men rule the government or something of that tune, reverse-racism is still racism. The world isn't perfect, and probably never will be. And people who think that if black men, women, gays, pumpkins ruled the world that it would be a better place, they are wrong. Because a corrupt human is a corrupt human, regardless of creed or color.

It doesn't make sense, but the fact is, they are the underprivileged minority. We let them get away with that because hey! The gays can't get married, there is still racism in this country (and we're rather ashamed of it), etc. I'd say not being allowed to be proud of being a majority isn't so bad when we consider what privileges we have that they don't.