View Poll Results: Being a homosexual
Oh ya! i suport! 251 91.94%
ew... 22 8.06%
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FAGGY CHAN
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#76
Old 09-04-2009, 07:11 PM

Anyone who thinks being gay is a sin is ignorant.
The bible also says you can't drink water fast and it's a sin to shit.
So yeah. While the bible helps with life lessons. It shouldnt be taken so literally.

Being gay is fine. You're born like that. Just like being born straight.
I am female myself and dating a female atm. I love her and want to marry with her, then raise a family with her.
But I am still sexually attracted to men.

Sexuality is a complex thing and It's not just gay, straight, bi.
There are many degrees of "gay"

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#77
Old 09-07-2009, 11:24 PM

I agree with what a lot of you are saying. The Bible is a guide to life lessons and shouldn't be taken literally. Plus, Gay tendencies are something that is found the more intelligent animals. Elephants very often have gay partners A) because they don't mate/ become full mature until they are 40 and B) most choose to have male x male partners. I can definitely say that is isn't a choice. Why would someone choose to be oppressed? That's like saying "Your straight well, tomorrow wake up ad like men." It wouldn't work.

You fall in love with who you fall in love with. Love is Love.

As far as the marriage bill is concerned there are many rights that gay couples are denied. If my partner for 20 years was in critical condition in the hospital I wouldn't be able to see her because I wasn't technically part of the "immediate" family. She could die and I wouldn't be able to be there. Apartment issues and home ownership issues arise that really shouldn't. Marriage is a more protected and right giving state. That's all.

If "Unions" for partnered couples gave all of those rights then okay sure whatever - all set. It would just be words.

Rights for all!

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#78
Old 09-08-2009, 07:05 PM

I support gay couples.

There are two people. They are in love. They are both human beings capable of expressing love to each other. What's the problem?

I'm not sure if you're born with a certain sexuality. You're born and you have influences in your life that tell you what your sexuality is, I guess? We're all born with a clean slate, where we end up depends on what gets written on it. Yanno? owo

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#79
Old 09-09-2009, 03:05 AM

I half-agree with you, Anna. P:

I agree on the clean slate part, although I personally believe there's a sort of... Let's call it a 'natural tendency' towards a sexual preference. It's all a matter of recognizing that 'natural tendency,' and letting it become something more than just a yearning or a thought.

It's odd how many people who are secretly gay yet define themselves as straight simply settle for "the norm". It sickens me how our culture has warped something natural - that is, sexuality - and turned it around into this monstrous, alien being. It sickens me how we have developed such high standards for each other - to such an extent that we expect to be able to pigeonhole someone into such harsh basics that the variety or spice of life has diminished completely.

How boring would it be if every girl was named Sue, and every boy was named Bob? How dull would all of those fun parties you've been to in your life be without someone that had a strong personality, an outrageous sense of humor, or even a tendency towards shyness?

These are all traits of a human being, as much as sexuality is. You cannot pick and choose what to go up against and destroy - even those compulsive liars that can be a real pain in the ass cannot be completely ousted. We all must put up with each other's bull shit from dawn to dusk. Even the disagreeable crap must be swept under the carpet at times.

But yeah. Love is love. Two people are two people.
It's funny how homosexuality is such a bigger issue than polygamy. You'd think, if anything, those opposed to same sex marriage legalization would respect the monogamy of these couples who wish to devote themselves to one another in a religious institution.
It's also funny how homosexuality is a bigger issue than divorce, but that's an argument I don't feel like getting into tonight. xP

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#80
Old 09-13-2009, 01:44 PM

I don't mind gay people.
I have never understand the hatred against gay people, especially in America (or at least what the media portrays Americans as on this issue). I mean, why do you even care if somebody is gay or not? It isn't going to affect your life. In fact if you are male, a gay person allows a reduction in the 'competition' in terms of relationships.

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#81
Old 09-16-2009, 04:14 AM

i dont think its a sin at all i support gay marriage as well. i mean sexuality shouldn't matter at all as long as there is love.

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#82
Old 09-17-2009, 03:19 AM

Well considering the context of the bible.. Eating shrimp is a sin, wearing wool and linen at the same time is a sin.. I don't hold any credit in someone who would put so much force behind the sin of laying with another man and not the other thousands of sins that we let pass every day, when they would be punishable by death in biblical times. As a modern piece of literature and guide to Christianity or spirituality, the Bible falls far short of ideal.

But beyond that.. It shouldn't matter if it's a SIN to anyone but the person taking part. Christianity might be a MAJOR religion but it's far from all encompassing. One religions concept of sin likely won't apply to another.

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#83
Old 09-19-2009, 10:15 PM

In light of the fruit fly studies, it would seem that homosexuality is nature opposed to socialization.

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#84
Old 09-19-2009, 11:40 PM

I'm pretty sure I can post this without getting in trouble.

There is a Documentry called "For The Bible Tells Me So" Anyone who is interested in this subject should watch it. This is my favorite clip from the whole thing.



The whole film is full of information and insight.

Oh, and because it's funny and relates to the clip.

My brother lives with me, has for years. He helps around the house and the farm because I broke my hip years back and some days I just can't even get out of bed. He's a great cook, a great friend and a great babysitter. I have no quilms about my daughter being around him, or know that he likes men rather then women. In fact, in our home, this really isn't an issue, and she's never once been concerned that my best friend has a "wife" rather then a husband, and their son has two mommies.

But anyway. My brother is the youngest of 4 boys. His 3 older brothers are heterosexual. Makes me think maybe they got it right in the video.

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#85
Old 09-20-2009, 01:13 AM

I personally don't see it as wrong, but according to what I've read doing acts that require marriage or marrying someone of the same gender are wrong, but dating the same gender isn't mentioned at all.

Born that way? I'm not sure... but I've never been gay, so I wouldn't know if there's a difference ^^"

I personally am not opposed to gay marriage, as I believe that love does not have boundaries and can reach any ages, and genders, and any cultures.

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#86
Old 09-20-2009, 01:30 AM

I can understand being born that way. I'm straight.. but I couldn't imagin just deciding to be gay.. I am naturaly attracted to men. Looking at it from my own point of view.. I don't think I, personaly, could CHOOSE to be gay. And it's not because I don't like gay people, it's because I'm not attracted to women, at all. How do you know you're a homosexual? Like Martha said "The same way you know that you're straight."

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#87
Old 09-20-2009, 06:13 PM

My opinion is that nobody should hold responsible if they are gay or not. People shouldn't judge this and that because of the bible. I am sick and tired of hearing that they should go to hell and such. They shouldn't, it isn't you to decide if they should or if they shouldn't. People know better then to get shit from the bible, yes, excuse my language. I believe in God and Jesus but I do not believe in the bible. I think half of what is written in there is bs. D:< Complete BS! I mean half of it but not all. I do believe in some of what the bible says but not all of it. >>;

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#88
Old 09-20-2009, 07:54 PM

@lightkanna: I understand, since it's clearly visible that at least half of it is politically-influenced >__> I've heard of a greek word in there whose definition the translator didn't know so he put "homosexual" in there, so that might leave us with a lot of research and things to think about.

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#89
Old 09-20-2009, 08:16 PM

Personally, I have beef at all with any kind if sexuality. I believe that everyone starts out on a neutral field, not necessarily bisexual, just that there's no real preference at the start. Once a person hits puberty, most people will start to feel their biological urges pushing them toward the opposite gender for the sake of procreation.

However, since humans are intelligent beings with a wide range of emotions, we need more to our existence than just making babies. We need love, affection, we need someone who's not just a mate, but a partner. For most people society and environment strongly encourage people toward heterosexuality, so that initial neutral position I mentioned gets shifted. This is even more so for males than for females. Yes lesbians get tons of hate from the religious groups, but gay men often take even more heat from other areas. Specifically, other males who are feel very strongly that men should assert their masculinity, and are horrified by the idea of showing any sort of a feminine side.

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#90
Old 09-20-2009, 08:44 PM

Well it doesn't really start at puberty. My brother has know he was attracted to males since he was 7 years old when he got his first crush on a boy at school.. at this point no one had told him it was "wrong" to like boys. When he started poking and teasing, as little boys do to their crushes, he was sent to the principles office and his father was called. It happened a lot, really. He didn't KNOW he was homosexual because he didn't KNOW there was such a thing. He just liked who he liked.

He got older, still liked males instead of females, and when he finally figured out why, he figured out it was a "bad" thing and repressed himself for 15 years. It's only recently, now that he's living with me and my family, that he feels comfortable enough to admit he's gay, and he's finally started dating. Its so nice to see him smile, too, he's been depressive and angst all his life, was really hard to deal with sometimes. Now he seems so.. alive.

And he's not girly at all. He works on a farm, LOL, he's all muscles and fuzz and loves working on mechanical devices. Yeah.. he loves to cook.. but that was my doing, I kinda forced him into it.

My daughter got her first crush this year. It's a boy named Braden in her class. She wrote him a love note and I found it under her TV while I was cleaning her room.. I won't tell her I found it though. She's asked if we can call him a couple times too, and whenever we do, she gets all shy on the phone and doesn't talk. It's so cute. She's 7, by the way. In 2nd grade.

From first hand experience, I don't think it starts at puberty.

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#91
Old 09-20-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Stargazer View Post
There is nothing wrong with being gay. There is no argument that can be given other than a religious one to dispute it and religious arguments are instantly moot in debates so.. yea ... Xd
hey you cant trash christians.


being gay is some one s dession even though its wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyJean View Post
Well considering the context of the bible.. Eating shrimp is a sin, wearing wool and linen at the same time is a sin.. I don't hold any credit in someone who would put so much force behind the sin of laying with another man and not the other thousands of sins that we let pass every day, when they would be punishable by death in biblical times. As a modern piece of literature and guide to Christianity or spirituality, the Bible falls far short of ideal.

But beyond that.. It shouldn't matter if it's a SIN to anyone but the person taking part. Christianity might be a MAJOR religion but it's far from all encompassing. One religions concept of sin likely won't apply to another.
that might be true but(i might seem a little ignorant for this.)if youre to blind to see that thing callled life is to ????? to be just there then someone should check you for head injurys.



where did the wool and linen come from.I supose its just like an atheist to find the slightest flaw in the best thing ever.those flaws mostly seen from misunderstanding

Last edited by Bartuc; 09-22-2009 at 12:22 AM.. Reason: Double post

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#92
Old 09-20-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ktaco View Post
hey you cant trash christians.


being gay is some one s dession even though its wrong.



personnally i cant stand you buttpirates polluting our contry and homes with youre crazed croch fantasies.
Are you joking?

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#93
Old 09-20-2009, 10:49 PM

@2ktaco: I will remind you that these are debate forums. If you can not conduct a civilized debate without attacking another member, I ask kindly that you please find somewhere else to vent your arguments. There is a huge difference between a civilized debate and an argument, and if you haven't found this difference, this is not the place for you. I respect you have an opinion on the matter, but to call names and make rude comments are uncalled for. I will have no qualms about reporting your harassment.

Oh, and by the way, I am a highly spiritual person, please check the Websters Dictionary for the definition of "atheist"?

Also, please reread the book of Leviticus. It contains hundreds of laws pretaining the the daily lives of normal people.

Quote:
Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10).

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16).

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
Do you follow ALL the rules of the bible, my friend?

Last edited by MollyJean; 09-20-2009 at 10:54 PM..

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#94
Old 09-20-2009, 11:44 PM

I thought the bible said that having long hair for men was an abomination against god, or at least that's why schools don't let boys with slightly longish hair in o__o

@2ktaco: This is a Debate, not a trash-all-infidels forum. The previous page even had a video showing why it's natural to be gay.

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#95
Old 09-21-2009, 01:07 AM

Today we ignore the biblical laws and create our own interpretations of them. If it's obviously out dated.. we ignore it. Lots of devout Christians work on Sundays.. the bible says anyone who works on the sabbath should be stoned to death. We only CHOOSE to keep the laws about sexuality between men and women, they're as out dated as the rest. The only reasons I, personally, can see for this choice is hate or fear. Fear I could understand, human kind has always feared the unknown. It's a natural instinctual reaction. But hate has no excuse.

All those laws should be seen as the under developed local law of the land at that period in time. We don't look back on ancient Roman law and hold it to be gospel. We don't take ancient European law as the ONLY law, we make new ones and replace old ones as time progresses and humans, as a race, evolve. We can't be expected to look back at a law put in place 2,000 years ago and think it has any bearing what so ever on the laws of man today.

The references in the bible to homosexual relations are seen most often in the Laws of Mosus. These are NOT the 10 commandments, they are basic laws for the every day life of a devout follower of God at the time. Man's laws. Why is anyone still holding true to them? And do we expect man to look back in 2,000 years at OUR current legal system and hold it in higher regard then their own?

Sorry for the edit, got cut off when I was posting before.

Last edited by MollyJean; 09-21-2009 at 01:21 AM.. Reason: Added lots of stuff

Countess de monet
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#96
Old 09-21-2009, 06:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MollyJean View Post
Well it doesn't really start at puberty. My brother has know he was attracted to males since he was 7 years old when he got his first crush on a boy at school.. at this point no one had told him it was "wrong" to like boys. When he started poking and teasing, as little boys do to their crushes, he was sent to the principles office and his father was called. It happened a lot, really. He didn't KNOW he was homosexual because he didn't KNOW there was such a thing. He just liked who he liked.

He got older, still liked males instead of females, and when he finally figured out why, he figured out it was a "bad" thing and repressed himself for 15 years. It's only recently, now that he's living with me and my family, that he feels comfortable enough to admit he's gay, and he's finally started dating. Its so nice to see him smile, too, he's been depressive and angst all his life, was really hard to deal with sometimes. Now he seems so.. alive.

And he's not girly at all. He works on a farm, LOL, he's all muscles and fuzz and loves working on mechanical devices. Yeah.. he loves to cook.. but that was my doing, I kinda forced him into it.

My daughter got her first crush this year. It's a boy named Braden in her class. She wrote him a love note and I found it under her TV while I was cleaning her room.. I won't tell her I found it though. She's asked if we can call him a couple times too, and whenever we do, she gets all shy on the phone and doesn't talk. It's so cute. She's 7, by the way. In 2nd grade.

From first hand experience, I don't think it starts at puberty.

Ah, I think you got me all wrong. I was saying that biology kicks in at puberty and I was taking about the human desire to procreate. However, there's no age limit on a persons need for love and affection. Also for the whole masculinity part, there's nothing feminine about being homosexual, but there are plenty of thickheaded straight men out there who will say the opposite, which is where most of their bias and disgust for gay men come from.

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#97
Old 09-21-2009, 07:23 AM

@Countess de monet: then what point where you trying to make? I missed it. (Not trying to be rude, I really did just miss it. Can be thick headed sometimes.

We don't feel a need to procreate til puberty? Well physically, I guess that might be true, mentally, however, children play with dolls all the time, play mommy. Children ask their mothers and fathers for little brothers and sisters so they can be the "big brother" or the "big sister" and take care of their younger sibling. Even kids want something to take care of, that's part of the reason we get them pets. Emotionally, we are raised from birth to want children. When puberty comes along, and we CAN have children, that doesn't exactly change, and it doesn't really matter the sexuality of a person, if they have the mind set for it, they'll want to be a mother or a father. And they'll find a way. That doesn't always mean deferring to a heterosexual relationship to procreate, but I could see a desperate person taking such action.

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#98
Old 09-21-2009, 10:44 AM

I was raised to believe that being gay is something you can't help and I stick to that belief. Being gay is as much a part of who you are as your race, it can't be helped or changed and should be accepted.

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#99
Old 09-21-2009, 10:59 AM

Firstly I will start off with a video which I personally found to be quite powerful. Unfortunately I was not able to find a video as pretty as the one MollyJean provided expressing my views on the topic. Indeed it would of been quite nice to find a video which countered theirs. All I found however were either rather stale in comparison. Curse you MollyJean and your superior video finding skills. Although as I mentioned there was another video I found which I quite liked and does sum up my feelings (although not my view).


I hold that homosexuality is not natural. The same is equally applicable to heterosexuality, bisexuality and essentially any other sexuality which you can come up with. Confused? Well let us start off by looking at what these terms mean. Homosexuality refers to someone who is attracted to someone from the same gender. For instance a male being attracted to another male or a female being attracted to another female. Whereas heterosexuality refers to someone being attract to their opposite counterpart. Male to female and female to male. Finally my third example is somewhat of a combination. A male might be attracted to males and females. While a female might be attracted to males and females.

Sounds rather self explanatory at this point. Although at this point I would ask, what do we mean when we say "male" or "female". While it might to many seem as if these two terms hold universalistic meanings entrenched in the human condition, although is this accurate? Now don't go asking socio-biologists such as
E. O. Wilson, as you will simply get fairy tales and myths. Although to answer the question a male and female are whatever the culture says they are. In a very Humpty Dumpty way...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humpty Dumpty
When I use a [gender], it means what I want it to mean; neither more, nor less
How true this quote is, for a simple look over differing cultures and suddenly the clarity of what constitutes male and female becomes a lot more murky. Indeed we have societies which strictly separate differing gender roles and those which blur the lines a lot more. Not only that but the positions they hold in society differs greatly as well. Sita Venkateswar in her work "Development and Ethnocide in the Andaman Islands", explained how among one tribal peoples the females used to have the dominant position in society. That it was only have colonization that this began to change. This is not an isolated event. So essentially we have a situation where there is no universal understanding of not only what males and females are but also what and how much difference there is between them. Although the keen minded might notice that while these may differ, the constant is that societies are still built around the notion of a person being either male or female. Which brings me to my next point.

Just as what each Gender means differs from culture to culture, so too does the amount of Genders which are present. While we (and I acknowledge this is presumptuous) live in heteronormative societies, which are binary and hold that there are only two genders, this is also a cultural construct. Again looking at other cultures and we will come across cultures which have 3 or more different genders. This is complicated even further when we take the Shaman into consideration!

So how can we assert that our definitions of sexuality explain 'nature', when not only do the number of genders present in society differ but their meanings differ as well. Furthermore this is not even addressing the issue that not all societies define sexuality in such a manner!


So then if these things differ so much from culture to culture, why do people insist on using such terms as 'nature' when discussing sexuality. Here I will propose that such a term is not value free, but is rather is a highly politically charged term. Which for many carries the dual purpose of reinforcing our cultural understandings of gender and ensuring that heterosexuals enjoy the spot light. I will take a moment to look at and unpack two key points underlying this understanding. Firstly that heterosexuality is normal as our bodies are designed to be polar opposites. Secondly that this observation can be reinforced by looking at other animals in society.

It is not uncommon these days, to hear people asserting that heterosexuality is what we were designed for. They will commonly follow this up by expressing that this is verified by differences in the male and female body. Furthermore that these differences are in place for the exact reason that we would utilize them in our sexuality. This sounds all good and well, much like the fairy tales I used to tell my younger sisters. Just like them, it does not hold up to closer scrutiny.

For you see, much like gender and sexuality, our perceptions of our bodies are culturally defined. Another cross cultural look and we come up with perceptions that there is a hole on the top of your head which gets opened up during spirit possession, or how the Chinese view the body in their acupuncture beliefs. Indeed there are numerous other cultural understandings of the body. Even if we look at 'Western history' we find that our conceptions of male and female having contrasting bodies is a fairly recent phenomenon. Indeed for thousands of years, it was understood that they were simply variations! So the myth of them being opposites is just that and a recent one too.

The animal kingdom, has commonly been used by various people in attempts to explain certain behaviours and traits observed amongst humans. Sexuality is no different in this regard, with Baboons, bees and certain birds often being the weapons of choice. It is quite a simple magic trick really. First you actively select an animal which meets your requirements. Then take your cultural understandings of gender and sexuality. Next you apply it to said animal. Finally you exclaim, voilà I have found the secret of human nature!! Congratulations you are now a magician oops I mean socio-biologist (no offence intended to magicians).

The problems of this come both from the application of your cultural views and your active selection of said animal. For instance why were these specific animals being chosen? Surely they are not just looking for those which they can most effortless apply their ideologies to. So not only have they falsely applied understandings to the animal but they have actively chosen ones which best suit their ideology. Even worse they have specifically neglected to address variables, such as the impact environment has!



TLDR
Sexuality is a social construction as not only is gender defined by culture but the same also applies to the number of genders present. Furthermore attempts to define 'nature' have commonly equated to elevating our cultural perspective while ensuring the dominance of heterosexuals.


After all this I return now to the video which I posted way back at the start. As I mentioned it sums up my feelings quite nicely. Indeed I consider it absolutely atrocious that a group of socially defined people are victim to such hatred. My heart truly goes out to anyone who suffers such indignities as coming across those protesters in the video. That we are in such a state that we even need to have a debate on whether or not they are human enough to enjoy full citizenship rights is disgusting. As I see such attempts to block them from these rights as being nothing less than attempts to rob them of their very humanity.

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#100
Old 09-21-2009, 12:34 PM

God loves everyone, even people who are gay, but that doesn't mean that He likes what they do... but I hate it when so-called "Christians" go around being hateful to gays because they think that's God's will. God doesn't want us to hate anyone, and those people are just giving Christians a bad name. So although I don't believe the homosexual lifestyle is right, I also don't condone the way some people act as if they're all perfect and wonderful that they can spit in their faces. -_-

 



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