The title says it all. Should gays join the army. My opinion is yes and no.

Yes because it's not fair to discriminate a group for what they do or how they act.

No because it might make the other soldiers feel uncomfortable but that's still a sterotype because not every gay guy will try to flirt with every guy he sees and not every lesbian will try to flirt with every girl she sees.

So I guess I'm leaning more into yes. So what do you think?

What if there's a draft? Would gays be exempt from a draft if the answer is "no"?

Someones sexuality shouldn't even be in question when it comes to getting a job.
:/
Like good old Pierre said "The government has no right in the bedrooms of the nation" ...or something like that.
:]

If you actually look back in time, some armies were led by a gay general(or overall Lord speaking of Alexander the Great). They kept their "blasphemus" ways behind closed doors, and acted like a normal soldier outside of wherever they spent the night. Other than that, you couldnt tell the difference between a gay Centurian and a straight Centuarian(just using them as an example) if your life depended on it. So I think that as long as they dont compromise the safety of their unit, why shouldnt they be alowed in?

Discrimination is disgusting.
The Army is a job career, be there more guns and shooting and higher...injury risk. But a career nonetheless, and I think that gays should have a right to join the army. Are they any different from heterosexual people?
What if they have families that they wish to protect? What if they want to serve their country? Just because their preferences in sexuality is different, doesn't mean that their pride for their country should be snuffed out. They have opinions, and I stand tall when saying everyone is entitled to at least their own opinion.

So my answer is a definite yes.

I believe they should be able to join the military.
However, I believe the don't ask don't tell policy should continue to stay in effect.

Of course they should be able to join. I know many many military people (I'm an army brat) and most of them have no problem with gay people. The standard "don't flirt with me" responce is normal, but most of the people I know have no problem with it.

I don't understand why the "don't flirt with me" argument even applies. I don't want anyone to flirt with me--I'm in a dedicated relationship that I'm happy with. Should no one be in the military with me?

Alternatively, I could just use the same reasoning to suggest that ugly people not be allowed in the military.

Originally Posted by IcyKitten

I believe they should be able to join the military.
However, I believe the don't ask don't tell policy should continue to stay in effect.

1) Do you really believe anyone can read your font with a white background?
and
2) WHY do you think the DADT policy should stay in effect?

I might want to remind you that this is the debate forums. We can't just post our opinions and say nothing more. We're supposed to discuss our opposing opinions.

Originally Posted by miss murder

The title says it all. Should gays join the army. My opinion is yes and no.

Yes because it's not fair to discriminate a group for what they do or how they act.

No because it might make the other soldiers feel uncomfortable but that's still a sterotype because not every gay guy will try to flirt with every guy he sees and not every lesbian will try to flirt with every girl she sees.

So I guess I'm leaning more into yes. So what do you think?

Yes. They should be able to join the military.

The reason that they were initially banned from the military is because of the taboo upon being gay.

Kris
For an opening argument I have one thing, since you absolutely failed to even present your argument for it. I would like to remind you that this is a debate and you should probably present your argument before you decide to try to attack someone elses.

Do you really think anyone cares for your rudeness? No. So, if you are going rude you probably shouldn't post at all. Cause this may be the debate forum but, it doesn't warrant any bitchy attitudes.

Originally Posted by Keyori

I don't understand why the "don't flirt with me" argument even applies. I don't want anyone to flirt with me--I'm in a dedicated relationship that I'm happy with. Should no one be in the military with me?

Alternatively, I could just use the same reasoning to suggest that ugly people not be allowed in the military.

Sorry for the confusion. What I meant was that most of the people I know in the military are fine with gay people as long as it isn't shoved in their face. Bad choice of words.

Originally "don't ask, don't tell" was positive. It let gay people in the military stay in if they wished. What I mean by that is that before the law, anyone could be asked by thier commanding officers if they were gay. They would be expected to answer yes or no. This law prevented this scenario from happening.

Now that it isn't illegal to be gay and is somewhat accepted, the gay community wants job security.

I'm not entirly sure on this, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Who really cares if they're gay or not. Why should anyone need to know? If they're suitable to join the military, and they wish to, then why shouldn't they be allowed? Keep their sexual preference in the bedroom, and no one needs to know. End of arguement.

Originally Posted by Readera

Sorry for the confusion. What I meant was that most of the people I know in the military are fine with gay people as long as it isn't shoved in their face. Bad choice of words.

That wasn't specifically directed at you--I've heard several people seriously make that argument, and not just about gay militiamen either. It was probably the worst in high school, since the "don't flirt with me" attitude was very prevalent there. Most people said that they were okay with gays, they just didn't like gays hitting on them (and in most cases, gays never did hit on them, because they had such a homophobic aura about them).

When I served in my high school's GSA, I spent a lot of time coaching my more homophobic friends on appropriate reactions to a gay flirting with them. It didn't really click to them until I said, "Look, just pretend that gay guys are just really ugly girls, and say the same thing to them that you would to a girl you're not attracted to." For whatever reason, it worked wonders, and many of them shed most, if not all, of their homophobia.

Originally Posted by Keyori

That wasn't specifically directed at you--I've heard several people seriously make that argument, and not just about gay militiamen either. It was probably the worst in high school, since the "don't flirt with me" attitude was very prevalent there. Most people said that they were okay with gays, they just didn't like gays hitting on them (and in most cases, gays never did hit on them, because they had such a homophobic aura about them).

Ah that is annoying. It's fine I understand. About half of the military people I knew were my freind's parents. The other half were my freinds who had joined and my parents' freinds. I have a gay freind who will be very flambouyet around people with that attitude. Just to piss them off. It's funny but not that smart.

My fiance's brother is like that. If people tease him about being gay, he turns on the flames :lol:

They should be able to if they want

What I've come to notice is that straight guys are the ones who are homophobic...not to say there aren't homophobic women out there, but men are the ones who are generally against it...and yes, as someoine said...that a lot of these guys are generally more openly homophobic towards gay men...and the reason for this being is a lot of them have this fear that a gay man will hit on them. But that is such a false accusation, it's not even funny. Gay men don't go hitting on straight guys other than a very small amount of incidents of that accidentally happens. Because hey...they will make mistakes sometimes. I grew up in a very tolerant household. My mom's younger brother is gay, and has been with his partner for about as long as my parents have been married (which is over 20 years btw), and through all my years knowing the two of them, neither one of them has hit on a straight guy. So this fear is utterly ridiculous.

Anyways...sorry about that rant...I just have very strong feelings about this topic...so...onto what I was really going to say on this debate.

If someone who is homosexual wants to serve his/her country, then they shouldn't be not allowed to join just because of their sexuality. It isn't fair to them at all. And the Don't Ask Don't Tell rule that's in place...I think that law needs to be taken away because it isn't fair for those people who want to join the army and don't want to keep their sexuality a secret.

Originally Posted by Draciolus

If you actually look back in time, some armies were led by a gay general(or overall Lord speaking of Alexander the Great).

Well...technically he wasn't "homosexual"...the ancient Greeks didn't have a term for it back then...and in that time period pretty much all the men would have sex with other men. That sort of thing wasn't looked at in a bad light back then. Though there were some rule to it...it was okay for a man to have sex with a more boyish looking man. And two women having sex with each other was very much looked down upon. I wrote a paper on this, so though I'm no expert, I'd like to think I'm fairly knowledgeable. And I did look into Alexander the Great. And there is some proof that him and his childhood friend (I can't think of his name at the moment) had sex.

It wasn't until the introduction of Catholicism during the time of ancient Rome where that more open minded mindset was destroyed...so yeah...

If American were truly about equal opportunity then whether gays should or shouldn't be allowed into the military wouldn't be an issue. However, freedom comes with strings attached and so the way things are put is simply don't ask don't tell. However, gays shouldn't have to refrain from being open about what they really are. I personally believe that gays and lesbians should be allowed into the army with no strings attached. Keep your mouth shut about it? If that's the case then every military man and woman should keep their mouth shut about being a straight as well because it's all the same in the end. Everyone loves and if a man's love so happens to be directed towards another man or if a woman's love towards another woman, so be it. That's their prerogative. No one should be judged because of the one they love be it the same gender or not.

Come on, America. D; Don't be a hater!

If gays should not join the army because it creates tension among the same-sex people they're in close quarters with, then they shouldn't be allowed to do any kind of dangerous job - the tension is too risky. No gay policemen, no gay construction workers, none of that.

Of course, that would have a lot of people crying foul, now wouldn't it?

The fact is, the whole "creating tension" argument is a load of crap, really serving only one purpose - to keep the homophobic straight soldiers as much in their comfort zone as possible. Fact is, ESPECIALLY in the heat of battle, unless you're just a nymphomaniac, you're probably NOT thinking about screwing everyone you see with your preferred set of reproductive organs, no matter your sexual orientation. You're probably NOT going to flirt with someone just because they're there (unless you just really like weirding people out). When people realize this, I think the world will be a friendlier place, but for now...

Really, I think there's no point to saying "No, you can't do this because you're gay." It's discrimination, which anywhere else would be illegal. If a security firm can't get away with it due to the risk factor, then why can the military?

Originally Posted by Kris

1) Do you really believe anyone can read your font with a white background?
and
2) WHY do you think the DADT policy should stay in effect?

I might want to remind you that this is the debate forums. We can't just post our opinions and say nothing more. We're supposed to discuss our opposing opinions.

Well I've had plenty of people respond to my texts. So yes I assume people can read my texts. But that was completely beyond the point of this thread.

I believe the don't DADT policy should stay in effect because for one, it's no ones business. And for two, it would make other people extremely uncomfortable. And this is backed up by my friend who is in the military. Boot camp would be extremely troublesome.

It shouldn't matter that they are gay, however, there is no need once so ever to go tell everybody.

Um, Icy, you're aware that DADT gives the military an excuse to discharge gay military members, right? Also, how they define "tell" is be in any way out of the closet. If they even suspect you're gay, you're out. If they find out you have a significant other of the same gender, you're out. If they happen to get ahold of an email or letter hinting that you're gay, you're out. DADT was meant to slightly protect gays, while still giving the military the right to persecute them.

Also, why does it matter what is "uncomfortable"? When the military was first racially integrated, you don't think a whole lot of people were uncomfortable? Or what about when women were allowed to be more than just nurses? Discomfort (brought about solely by the same heterocentric mentality as DADT itself) is never a legitimate excuse for being intolerant.

I am aware of that, just as I am aware that the military is actually letting gays in as of Nov 2009 in the Air Force.
DADT is to protect gays and straights. Obviously, people are not comfortable with the idea of gays.
Plus, when you are in BMT and Tech you are roomed with a lot of people.
As soon as someone finds out a person is gay they could be harassed in so many ways.

"Don't ask, don't tell."

It's simple. If you are gay and want to be in the military, go for it.
Just keep it to yourself. Not that big of a deal.

I know for a fact that there are many gays in the military these days.

And also, they don't go through your emails and they only go through your mail in BMT.
So if you just happened to hand the evidence over, well yeah. Not to bright.

@Icy:.....Straight people don't need protection...

And why not?
Why should gays have protection but not straights?

@Keyori: Good question! I had never that of gay exemption from the draft.. my outrage has always been that women can't be drafted, but men are. Not fair!

But my answer to the broad question is yes! I was in the military. They use being gay as an excuse to get rid of the soldiers who cause them problems. Because when I came forward and told my company commander that I was bisexual, they did a background check. They called my mother, some other family, and even my ex-girlfrind(!), who all confirmed. The next day I was called back into his office, where he informed me that none of it mattered, and I HAD to stay. It doesn't make any sense!