Originally Posted by IcyKitten

And why not?
Why should gays have protection but not straights?

What do they need protection from? The homosexuals in the military? I may be missreading what you meant...but that's what it sounded like to me...

Originally Posted by IcyKitten

And why not?
Why should gays have protection but not straights?

In case you were misinformed, you can't catch "the gay." I promise you, it's not contagious. Likewise, gays can't catch "the straight."

I can't think of what else would need protecting.

I am obviously aware of this. And seriously. Don't get me wrong.
I love gays. And I have a close relative that is.

I'm just saying that if they join the military they should go for it.
No one needs to go around pronouncing it.

If it is brought up so be it but it's nothing anyone needs to go parading around.
I sure don't go around to people saying. "I'm straight."

People I know who's gone through BMT agree that it's for the safety of gays not straights.

i.e. There is a loooooot of sexual frustration involved in the military.

Originally Posted by IcyKitten

If it is brought up so be it...

If it is brought up and a superior officer finds out about it, that person can be dishonorably discharged and forever be barred from receiving any benefits from the time he or she has served in the military.

Also, if I were gay, and happened to be married in a state that allowed gay marriage, none of my family would be eligible for benefits extended to other military families, because revealing who my spouse is would flag me as gay.

If I were gay, I wouldn't settle with "so be it."

Right now. Yeah.
But we are talking about if gays were accepted in the military.

But the truth of the matter is the military will never be able to handle gays in the military.
There will always be those few people that can't handle it and then will get others rallied up about it.
Of course the military is going to just avoid all that drama.

But to put it simple, the military isn't there so that everyone can feel equal.
They don't care about your feelings.

the military is there to tear you down and build you up to be the soldier they want you to be.
If they have a problem with something they don't care what anyone else thinks.

Originally Posted by IcyKitten

Right now. Yeah.
But we are talking about if gays were accepted in the military.

But the truth of the matter is the military will never be able to handle gays in the military.
There will always be those few people that can't handle it and then will get others rallied up about it.
Of course the military is going to just avoid all that drama.

OMG!!! So not true!!! Like I said, I was bisexual and in the Army. Everybody talked openly about our sexuality, and nobody cared. Why should they? We are all there to protect and support each other, and we are all ADULTS. Really, nobody cared.

Originally Posted by Roxxxy

OMG!!! So not true!!! Like I said, I was bisexual and in the Army. Everybody talked openly about our sexuality, and nobody cared. Why should they? We are all there to protect and support each other, and we are all ADULTS. Really, nobody cared.

agreed

Originally Posted by IcyKitten

Right now. Yeah.
But we are talking about if gays were accepted in the military.

But the truth of the matter is the military will never be able to handle gays in the military.
There will always be those few people that can't handle it and then will get others rallied up about it.
Of course the military is going to just avoid all that drama.

But to put it simple, the military isn't there so that everyone can feel equal.
They don't care about your feelings.

the military is there to tear you down and build you up to be the soldier they want you to be.
If they have a problem with something they don't care what anyone else thinks.

You go saying that the military doesn't care about your feelings, after declaring that straight people have to be protected from being uncomfortable by gays?! You're contradicting yourself!

Originally Posted by IcyKitten

Right now. Yeah.
But we are talking about if gays were accepted in the military.

But the truth of the matter is the military will never be able to handle gays in the military.
There will always be those few people that can't handle it and then will get others rallied up about it.
Of course the military is going to just avoid all that drama.

But to put it simple, the military isn't there so that everyone can feel equal.
They don't care about your feelings.

the military is there to tear you down and build you up to be the soldier they want you to be.
If they have a problem with something they don't care what anyone else thinks.

What like how the military could never accept blacks, or women. The population's opinion changes. As people with more "concervative" opinions die or get older, and as the younger generations get more and more "liberal" popular opinion changes. However the military is run my official who are generally older. This means the military will almost allways be more conservative then the rest of the populaition.

Yes the military wants everyone to be as close to the ideal soilder as possible. However that does not mean that they have the right to deny you a job or benifits if you are gay or black or anything else.

Originally Posted by IcyKitten

Well I've had plenty of people respond to my texts. So yes I assume people can read my texts. But that was completely beyond the point of this thread.

I believe the don't DADT policy should stay in effect because for one, it's no ones business. And for two, it would make other people extremely uncomfortable. And this is backed up by my friend who is in the military. Boot camp would be extremely troublesome.

It shouldn't matter that they are gay, however, there is no need once so ever to go tell everybody.

I have to highlight your text to be able to read it. :S

I am not comfortable around Jews. Does this mean that we should discharge anyone if they are openly Jewish and in the military?

We cannot cater to those who discriminate. White men may not have wanted black men in the same restaurant as them in the 1960s, but that doesn't mean that we allow discrimination. Rather, we have to respect the rights of the people who are be discriminated against.

If I remember correctly, Gays are now accepted in the military which is cool. Gays really are heavily stereotyped (especially the males). There is nothing wrong with gays in the military at all. The gays that actually WANT to serve our country most likely are not the flamboyant ones that men seem to fear.

Originally Posted by IcyKitten

If it is brought up so be it but it's nothing anyone needs to go parading around.
I sure don't go around to people saying. "I'm straight."

The only reason that's the case is because being straight is the norm in our society. And over the years, homosexuals have been treated very unfairly and many people have treated them like their inferior...so I think homosexuals deserve to have their say.

Originally Posted by Kris

I have to highlight your text to be able to read it. :S

I am not comfortable around Jews. Does this mean that we should discharge anyone if they are openly Jewish and in the military?

We cannot cater to those who discriminate. White men may not have wanted black men in the same restaurant as them in the 1960s, but that doesn't mean that we allow discrimination. Rather, we have to respect the rights of the people who are be discriminated against.

Thank you!

With as many enemies as we have, why do we still care about things like this? The smart thing to do would be to accept any willing, able-bodied soldier who wants to enlist. How do you envision the Army, anyway? DO you think that people just sit around and talk sex? Cause I'm here to tell you, there is never even TIME for things like that. We are there to train, and then to do our jobs. I repeat: NOBODY CARES who is in the foxhole with them, so long as they are willing to fight.

Originally Posted by demoscout

If I remember correctly, Gays are now accepted in the military which is cool. Gays really are heavily stereotyped (especially the males). There is nothing wrong with gays in the military at all. The gays that actually WANT to serve our country most likely are not the flamboyant ones that men seem to fear.

And, if they can do their job, who cares if they are flamboyant? You can't fire someone for being flamboyant.

However, gays are not accepted into the military. They can join, but they can not be open about their sexuality (but, straight men and women are allowed).

People seem to be thinking that, if a person is gay, they will want to fuck everything with matching genitalia. We must keep in mind that this is not true.

I think that as long as they can fight. Sexual orientation shouldnt be an issue.

I say yes and no as well.

Yes because I think people should be able to decide what they want to do for themselves. They shouldn't be limited to doing things just because of their sexuality.

No because of the fact that they ARE restricted from joining because of their sexuality. I think that's wrong. This country (Though we HAVE made progress over the years) really dislikes homosexuality. So why fight for a country if it doesn't like the way you live? It's not like it's your fault.


So in my opinion, they shouldn't even WANT to join the military. But if they DID , I believe they should have the right to.

John McCain flip-flops on DADT. Is there any other reason for him to start opposing its repeal now, other than because the "other side" supports a repeal?

Originally Posted by Roxxxy

With as many enemies as we have, why do we still care about things like this? The smart thing to do would be to accept any willing, able-bodied soldier who wants to enlist. How do you envision the Army, anyway? DO you think that people just sit around and talk sex? Cause I'm here to tell you, there is never even TIME for things like that. We are there to train, and then to do our jobs. I repeat: NOBODY CARES who is in the foxhole with them, so long as they are willing to fight.

So does that mean that the only ones who really care are the bureaucrats on the hill? Policy and Politics come from the same root word; is that the real initiative behind DADT?
From what you're saying, at the very least no one in your unit is bothered by it. I do have to ask though, you're a girl, right? A lot of the homophobic men I have encountered are only discomforted by male homosexuality. I do get what you're saying about no time to think about it, and realize that from your perspective, it's probably a lot less big a deal than it looks from back here.

I think that the "homo-bashers," as it were, go too far.

I can understand why people are so passionate in their stances on gay-marriage, but who gives a care if a person is gay in the military? Obviously there are those that fear the "come-ons" of a gay man or woman, but whoever said that just because a gay man/woman makes a move it is necessary to consent to their wishes? Just because you are around a gay person does not change your own sexuality nor does it harm you. Those gay people that join the army join it for the same reason that a straight person does: to protect the safety of their country or for the money that would help them pay for their college, NOT because they wish to fantasize about their colleagues of the same sex.

Leave them be. What viable argument is there against letting homosexual people into the army besides hatred and fear of the different?

On another note, if there were a law made stating that homosexuals were not allowed to join the army, how would it be enforced? Anyone can lie about their sexuality.

I also agree with the arguments concerning drafts. How would the government be able to "check" all of the people joining the army in a time of such great havoc that would cause a draft in the first place?

Ridiculous.

personally, i think that if a person is gay and want to bear arms to protect their country, then go for it! I really don't think that a sexual orientation should make a difference. If the person is a vital contributing member it shouldn't matter if they are gay or straite. the military has find a fine job of kicking out gay people just for saying they are eventho they had not done anything wrong in their jobs. I think that's sad. i think your work preformance and merrit should speak louder than your sexual preference. if the person is just a bad egg then it should be fine to kick them out.

Originally Posted by Kris

And, if they can do their job, who cares if they are flamboyant? You can't fire someone for being flamboyant.

There's a good chance the flamboyant (fashion oriented, etc.) Gay males will have no interest in hard army combat. I think you took my statement in another way.

Originally Posted by demoscout

There's a good chance the flamboyant (fashion oriented, etc.) Gay males will have no interest in hard army combat. I think you took my statement in another way.

And I think your way off. If a flamboyant man IS interested in the army, he should be allowed to be a part of it - personality and sexuality as well.

All types of people join the army. Flamboyant people are allowed. Under the "Don't ask, Don't tell" rule, they can be as flamboyant as they want as long as they don't tell. People are not allowed to ask. People may be watching out for any signs of telling though.

Originally Posted by Kris

And I think your way off. If a flamboyant man IS interested in the army, he should be allowed to be a part of it - personality and sexuality as well.

And I think you're, again, taking what I say out of context. Never did I say they shouldn't be allowed or aren't allowed. All I was saying is that, most likely, you won't catch the more flamboyant (by nature) gay man enlisting in the military. They would most likely prefer to be in the fasion business or a more mellower career like an Artist, journalist, etc. I NEVER said that the chance wasn't there that, said, gay man wouldn't enlist....it's just most likely that the less flamboyant ones would join.

I am sure that the straight males who enlist are, essentially, afraid of being with flamboyant gays, but because of this fear of gay men in general (which is instilled in almost every guy), they don't want gays in there, period. I don't need to get into this because we all practically know why most guys (usually christians, but who knows..maybe it's not a religious thing) are uncomfortable around gay men. Now if you're a guy and get offended because you think I sound like I know everything about guys, just zip it because I know I don't.

Gays are just as capable of protecting the mother country as anyone else, but fair or not fair, these rules are set in place for reasons we can all disagree with.

of coarse they should... i know some gays that could fight most of the people in the army an win lol. as long as they can do what needs to be done then why treat them any different then straight people?