A Warm Welcome to the Hangout for
Menewsha's Virtual Androgynes

What's this about, and why should I care? On the internet, your presence is nothing except for four octets of 0s and 1s. That's it. Nothing more. However, there are very few 'silent' internet users. Community. That sounds appealing, right? Maybe I can find people with similiar interests. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact it is an awesome thing. -hugs teh interweb-.

The 'problem' starts when you start to disclose information about yourself. I'm not talking about photographs, your phone number, etc... something as simple as checking 'male' or 'female'. You will see different advertisements based on the cookie then set into your browser. You will receive different kinds of attention based on this from strangers on social networking sites.

(I digress: As a 'female', many a time I have turned strangers down on Yahoo messenger. They then threaten to do obscene things and cram certain things in certain holes and I'm laughing my ass off the whole time! :angel: )

On avatar sites, people make a snap judgement of you as well... mostly based on your avatar. So as fun as it is to dress up, we lose much of the anonyminity needed to be respected for our thoughts, intelligence, ideas, and helpfulness BEFORE gender and all of the stereotypes are interjected. "Oh, I should thank her by getting her something pink and shiny!" "He's only talking that way because he's a hard-headed egotistical jerk."

So, are you ready to rattle things up and shake some minds with me? Excellent, most excellent.

Gender roles extend into the real world as well, and you're more than welcome to vent, discuss, and create ideas in this hangout.

In the meanwhile however, here are some ways (and some examples), you can utilize gain respect on Menewsha and the rest of the web without your gender being an influence affecting how people treat you:

• On non-avatar sites, Decline to state your Gender unless it is Mandatory
• On Menewsha, you can frequently change the Gender of your Main Avatar (Hatake Ayumi, Kirin Rosenbaum, and Tana-Chan do this)
• You can mess with people's minds by suggesting "What if I'm not a ___" or saying "I never said I was a ___" (Flink, and The_Crow do this)
• Since Menewsha allows for one mule, It is great to have one of each gender and observe any differences for yourself

I didn't mind if you senpais took me for a boy. I guess my consciousness for genders is lower than that of the average person... "Ah, from now on I'll start using 'ore'! (a masculine form of 'I', as opposed to 'watashi' or 'jibun')

- Haruhi Fujioka of Ouran High School Host Club

What about gender being imbedded into our launguage? Thankfully English isn't as bad as Spanish where even inanimate objects have a gender, somehow. Yet especially when using pronouns, it's easy to box someone.

Here are some Gender-Neutral Pronouns that I picked up from Raven Digitalis's book Goth Craft:

He/She = Xe or Ze
Him/Her = Hir
His/Her = Hir
His/Hers = Hirs
Himself/Herself = Hirself

* I didn't pull these out of think air, they are in fact validated on Wikipedia.

Any potholes we should be aware of? Yes, actually. Bear in mind that Menewsha is a PG-13 site. The topic here is about how you are perceived based on your gender, but I would ask that issues relating to REAL-LIFE trans-SEXUALISM be avoided because, well, you can't get into the details of that without talking quite abit about changing... parts... and that passes the PG-13 threshold.

Also, I expect some "serious conversation" but I also expect it to deviate from that. Why? Because this is a community and people who are drawn here by the subject line and my long-winded post will just wind up, chatting, hanging out, and making friends.

Last But Not Least:

Free Your Mind and Have Fun



Remember that you don't need XY chromasomes to 'Be A Man':

P.S.: If you enjoy this thread, you might also enjoy the Gay and Straight Alliance Hangout.

Fun Audio and Visual

Originally Posted by LizzyCollinsDeArc

I found this video to be nice and also kind of related to the thread. :D!

Amazing Quotes and Insights

Famous Gender-Benders

Miscellaneous Youtube
brought to my attention by our patrons and regulars

(Links Out)
Where To Go From Here

Transgender people don't necissarily change their parts. They are people who feel as if they were born the wrong gender. If they are male the identify as female and vice versa. A male who identifies as female might grow out his hair, change his name to a female name, wear female clothing. Transexuals are those who go a step farther and change their parts as it were.

Aaah, what a wonderful thread!
Those who RP have run into the same kind of issues... My experience is that there are more female RPers than male and so the females are expected to RP both... while males generally have no chance to RP as a female character if they do indicate that they are male. In addition I have run into males being stereotyped as always wanting gore, fighting, and explicit content.
It's a sad situation in this world...

Don't get me started on job stereotyping, either! XD
Or you could, I suppose. ^^

I have also noticed that females are stereotyped as only liking frilly things and pink and dresses and all that kind of stuff. I am female and, while I do like girly things in moderation, I prefer the fighting gore guts and such.

I would like to say that if anyone else would like to be mentioned, not listed, or make ponts to add to the original post, feel free to let me know.

I guess it started with roleplaying with me. As with most people, I started with a character that was basically "me thrown into whatever siutation". Then, after people started pushing me to make a different character, I tried to make one that was "different in every way including gender". Turns out the 'different' character isn't so different afterall, and actually just contained a bunch of the frustration I try to hide.

Meh.

I like action movies.
I cry more than most people (depression/anxiety not helping).
I've worked at gaming stores and IT gigs.
Kitties make me melt.
I take martial arts and am frustrated if people go too easy on me due to my size.
I like watching kids and playing their imaginitve games.

How funny that you started this thread tonight! I spent the night at Rainbow Alley in Denver, a haven for the androgynous (and GLBTQs, but you know). For some reason, I've never really had my main avi as a guy (girl clothes are prettier, iuno~) but my mule (Brian Namal) is almost always male. :3
I identify as the gender I was born with in real life, but more often than not I wish I were the opposite gender.

We don't even have to look at this in a societal context...

Being a zoology major, I've recently delved into information on various life forms that reproduce asexually. Plants can have both male and female flowers, most single-celled organisms reproduce via mitosis, and there are quite a number of insects and reptiles that can reproduce without the assistance of a male.

Did you know a female komodo dragon can lay an unfertilized egg with a complete genome and it will hatch? It turns out to be a clone! Animals have been cloning themselves naturally long before humans thought to do it by artificial means.

More relevantly, there are the whiptail lizards which are all female but can switch gender, and the mollusks that stack on top of each other, the top taking the male gender until another mollusk comes along, and the fish that change gender with age, the males being younger than the females!

For those of us who believe in evolution, we recognize that gender is an evolved trait. Think about it!

I know that snails can be both male and female.

Snails are hermaphrodites. They're both, which I think is pretty nifty. =D

Crow, Thank you so much for making this thread. (:
Personally, I'd rather not be a gender at all. I want to love and be loved as a person, not a male or female.
I want to find other people who understand that in real life, so I don't have to live as something I don't want to be, something that I'm expected to be.

On avatar sites, I frequently change my avatar's gender.. But I've had a male avatar here forever because of manties. xD"

I am proud to say I am bisexual. Though sometimes I feel as if I was born the wrong gender. Other times I'm totally into the female thing. Though I don't usually go for typically girly things. I do like a good action movie. I am truly hoping to find a partner who will accept all sides of me.

It's really funny. I had super low real gender awareness (and thought boys and girls went to separate restrooms just to save time). As soon as I had gender-society-roles being forced upon me, I hated it and I didn't quite know why.

Boys should be able to cry and have their feelings validated; and not keep it all inside, repressed, which may likely lead to further mental issues.

(As long as they're wearing jeans), Girls should be able to sit with their legs open if it's comfortable. They can get covered in dirt, explore the woods, catch animals, learn tools and how to fix things.


I have the blessing/curse of looking perma-twelve. I've been called a she, a he, a girl, a guy, a miss, a sir kind of all depending on what I'm wearing at the time and how many other context clues they are given.

So anyways, welcome brianna and Rainbows, you are both welcome here any time. Kirin, I appreciate your continuing input on the subject. There's quite a bit to say about it, ne?

I work in day care and have little boys who like to dress up in dresses.

----------

There is a lot to say about it.

----------

On here I go between referring to myself as a girl and guy.

Originally Posted by Kirin Rosenbaum

I am proud to say I am bisexual. Though sometimes I feel as if I was born the wrong gender. Other times I'm totally into the female thing. Though I don't usually go for typically girly things. I do like a good action movie. I am truly hoping to find a partner who will accept all sides of me.

I pretty much agree with that~ I consider myself a pansexual, although I've only ever dated dudes, but I've been attracted to people of pretty much every gender identification. :)
I'm generally pretty girly, although I feel really uncomfortable in dresses and I despise my boobs at times. I don't like a lot of "manly" things, but I love video games and being dominant. I can't follow someone's lead in dancing to save my life. >_>
My boyfriend doesn't know I'm a pan, and every time I try to tell him I consider myself to be androgynous he tells me I'm a tomboy. I love him, but I wish he could understand. :/

@Crow- Thank you for the welcome~ :D
Unfortunately, I've always looked older than I am, and am pretty much undisputedly feminine in appearance.

I have always looked younger then I am. I am 30 and people still think I am in my teens. I've dated mostly dudes though at age 19 I had my first girlfriend. That was also the age I realized I was bisexual. I hate my boobs at times as well and could do without a period. Especially since I started my period in August and still haven't stopped oh and I was like four months late.

I'm making my home in this thread, as I've always felt both masculine and feminine within the context of American society. :B
When I RP, though, I'm oftentimes a male. Very rarely will I play a female. (I'm actually a girl, lawl).
But, you know, when you put someone with neither or both genders in, you get called fowl on a lot. :/ I guess it's that PG-type barrier that you cross.
Something that's made me curious is if the concept of gender is subjective and relative, as some traits being masculine and feminine traits vary among culture and time period.

99% of the time I rp as a male. I just find myself being able to relate better. I think t comes from never being overly girly and not ever being forced into the stereotypical girl role which I thank my parents for.

@Lehjamins- Hello and welcome. I look forward to having more of your insight around this thread. Here's something I've noticed concerning what you mentioned about things being masculine/feminine by time periods: As far back as the Egyptians, and definately in the Shakespearean times, PALE was in for a female. It means that you're married to a rich man,don't have to toil in the hot sun like the commoners, etc.

Now even those asking if "you want fries with that" or sitting in front of a computer all day never see sunlight, and as early as middle school I remember girls going to tanning beds and seeing shots of celebrities with totally fake 'tans' for the time of the year to prove that they can longe around... either outside in a tropical location or at least a tanning salon.

That's just one I've personally noticed and have thought about/wondered about in my spare time quite a bit.

Fun fact! A lot of women in Elizabethan England died because they used toxic materials to make their skin even more pale, trying to imitate the extremely fair skin of Queen Elizabeth.. Even the queen used tons of makeup to make herself seem more pale. O_O; Which eventually ruined her face by making it sagging, grey and winkled, but that's beside the point.
I'm extremely pale, because I just don't tan. In the summer I try to tan naturally while I'm outside, using sunscreen and everything, but I still only burn. x_x I've never been 'healthily tan'.
.. That seems really off-topic. xD

@Rainbows- Nah, that's not off topic at all. In fact, it further illustrates my point, and proving that women would go to deadly and detrimental extremes just to jump through the hoops of the gender roles at the time.

Also, it's time for the music video of the page... "Does his makeup in his room, douse himself with cheap perfume..."

Placebo- Nancy Boy (1995, pre-signed)

"It was weird, his voice sounded like a her, and, uh, he seemed to hold everyone's attention pretty well..." "When I thought the singer was a girl I kinda wasn't overcome. And then when I heard he was a boy, immeditately I changed me attidute to him. His voice is so interesting and also some great rhymes...

- Judges at "Unsigned in the City"

Originally Posted by Kirin Rosenbaum

I have always looked younger then I am. I am 30 and people still think I am in my teens. I've dated mostly dudes though at age 19 I had my first girlfriend. That was also the age I realized I was bisexual. I hate my boobs at times as well and could do without a period. Especially since I started my period in August and still haven't stopped oh and I was like four months late.

Ugh, periods are the worst. But that sounds really bad, Kirin, have you seen a doctor about it? :<
I've always wanted to have a girlfriend (I'm 16, btw), but I'm now in a committed straight relationship, and I guess we'll be together forever? So either I'll never get the chance, or the forever bit will change.
And I've kinda got this crush on a girl right now (I'm terrible! :gonk:), but she lives in a different state, so it'd be impossible even without my boy. :sweat:

Originally Posted by Rainbows

Fun fact! A lot of women in Elizabethan England died because they used toxic materials to make their skin even more pale, trying to imitate the extremely fair skin of Queen Elizabeth.. Even the queen used tons of makeup to make herself seem more pale. O_O; Which eventually ruined her face by making it sagging, grey and winkled, but that's beside the point.
I'm extremely pale, because I just don't tan. In the summer I try to tan naturally while I'm outside, using sunscreen and everything, but I still only burn. x_x I've never been 'healthily tan'.
.. That seems really off-topic. xD

I'm really pale, too! 8D Last time I was tan was in elementary school~ But I've always thought darker skinned girls were prettier. They always seemed more exotic. *w* Then again, I also like porcelain girls (which I am, I guess? >_>). I don't really have any skin tone preference for dudes. *shrug*