I have seen my aunt hit her dog multiple times. Not a strong ALMIGHTY hit, but a smack on the butt. I have never found hitting an animal ok in the slightest bit. I just don't think the animal understands like a child would if a mother or father gave him/her a pat on the butt for doing something wrong and then explaining to the child why they hit him/her. I just don't think animals deserve to be hit because they simply don't understand.
So, I ask.. What do you think?
Would you hit your dog or you kid?
Do you think that it differs?
Depends on the dog and certain circumstances....like...when is it appropriate to use shock collars? I believe a dog would rather have its butt smacked than being shocked...but using a shock collar is a practice that is advised to be used by some veterinarians in order for pet owners to control their pets more efficiently. I, of course, disagree with the imprisonment and domestication of animals within a closed area in the first place, but thats just me.
Depends on the dog and certain circumstances....like...when is it appropriate to use shock collars? I believe a dog would rather have its butt smacked than being shocked...but using a shock collar is a practice that is advised to be used by some veterinarians in order for pet owners to control their pets more efficiently. I, of course, disagree with the imprisonment and domestication of animals within a closed area in the first place, but thats just me.
I have always thought shock collars were to rough. I believe a pet can be tamed by a treat and proper coaching. In my opinion, people that resort to shock collars and get somone else to train their pet for them don't deserve to have the pet at all.
I think hitting a dog is extremely wrong. Like you said, they can't comprehend what they did wrong like children can when their parents explain it to them. Yes, peeing in the house is a bad habit for a dog, but with good training they can get out of it. It makes me so angry when my dad threatens to pop one of my dogs for getting on the couch or doing something they are not supposed to. Shock collars are just horrid. And people that are too dang lazy to train their own dogs shouldn't get the pet in the first place. If you get a pet, it is your responsibility to train them and teach them. Not someone else's. Egad! Things like this that people do get me so fired up >.<
I think hitting a dog is extremely wrong. Like you said, they can't comprehend what they did wrong like children can when their parents explain it to them. Yes, peeing in the house is a bad habit for a dog, but with good training they can get out of it. It makes me so angry when my dad threatens to pop one of my dogs for getting on the couch or doing something they are not supposed to. Shock collars are just horrid. And people that are too dang lazy to train their own dogs shouldn't get the pet in the first place. If you get a pet, it is your responsibility to train them and teach them. Not someone else's. Egad! Things like this that people do get me so fired up >.<
I agree. Y'know.. my dog Samantha was adopted by us with no training. She never used to stay when we told her to. My sister and I trained her for about 2 weeks and now she stay's like a pro. HAHA! :P We never hit her or abused her and she is the BEST dog.
Of course it's not okay. Animals have feelings, and they can feel pain too. If we mess up, we don't expect to be hit or beat because of it. I'd rather be shown my mistake and explained how to make it better then to get smacked, and I feel the same for the animals as well.
My boycat loves it when I smack him at the base of his tail.
Kinda like this:
I also bop 'em on the nose when he gets into stuff he's not supposed to. Not hard or anything, just a little tap.
I don't think it's a problem as long as it doesn't cause any sort of lasting pain or discomfort. Same goes for children. And never ever use a prop! My dad spanked me as a child, but my mother used a belt. I would NEVER use a belt on my own children.
My boycat loves it when I smack him at the base of his tail.
Kinda like this:
I also bop 'em on the nose when he gets into stuff he's not supposed to. Not hard or anything, just a little tap.
I don't think it's a problem as long as it doesn't cause any sort of lasting pain or discomfort. Same goes for children. And never ever use a prop! My dad spanked me as a child, but my mother used a belt. I would NEVER use a belt on my own children.
Heh, That video is hilarious. I personally don't think hitting is acceptable of any kind. Whether it be a bop or a tap.
I think it is okay to discipline both pets and children as long as you do it right. If you use 'spanking' to discipline then you shouldn't have to use it often because either it will work and the animal or child will stop the undesirable behavior, or it will not work and you should move on to something more effective.
I view hitting dogs pretty much the exact same way I view spanking children. Like kids, dogs can ignore or simply not understand you if you yell at them. Pain, however, has a universal meaning; you did something WRONG. And thus, it is effective.
Of course, it only works if you are actually bothering to train the dog. You can't just hit the dog and walk off without showing the poor thing what it did to deserve a smack. And some animals (like the kiddos) respond just fine to other forms of negative reinforcement and don't need to be hit. Despite what some people in this thread have said (or implied) hitting IS for training.
I think there is a line that a person just can't cross when it comes to hitting/spanking pets and children, but I admit that I do think that a little smack on the rump can do a terribly misbehaved child or pet good if it's done only in the worst of circumstances.
I believe this because of my life experiences, for example:
I was a very well-behaved child, but at one point (when I was about five years old) I started throwing nasty tantrums because I figured out that it got me what I wanted (attention) from my mom (which was new for me). One of the only times my dad ever smacked me was when he figured out I was throwing the tantrums, and he caught me in one. I never did it again, and I know for a fact I wouldn't have stopped if my parents had just put me in a room and told me what I had done wrong.
As per animals, my cat (who I love so much it's not even funny) got onto this weird kick once where she'd clamp down on my arm and sink her teeth a half inch into my flesh and start chewing on me whilst growling (she's the sweetest thing but I think she developed it due to anxiety caused by a big change in her environment, a.k.a. I had moved), she wouldn't let go until I chucked her across the room (since that's literally what it took to get her off of my arm). She did this to me a couple of times (without cause) and just wouldn't stop, so I finally ended up having to smack her over the head after one of the incidents. She was fully aware of what it was for (because I did it so quickly after she committed the offense), she never bit me like that again, and went back to being the friendly feline she had been before.
I just think that it's necessary to discipline animals and children sometimes, but it should never permanently harm the object of the punishment and it shouldn't severely hurt them either. It should just be enough to get it through their heads that what they're doing is wrong.
Let me also state (before somebody tackles me on this) that I don't believe in the use of severe punishment devices like shock collars and belts and all of that nonsense. I do think that giving a pet/child a smack when they do something particularly bad is not out of the question. (Though, with the pet, it needs to happen immediately after the offense so that it knows why it is being punished)
Last edited by ElysiumFate; 04-20-2010 at 03:00 AM..
I think it is okay to discipline both pets and children as long as you do it right. If you use 'spanking' to discipline then you shouldn't have to use it often because either it will work and the animal or child will stop the undesirable behavior, or it will not work and you should move on to something more effective.
When you say something more effective, I hope you don't mean hitting harder .-.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabby
I view hitting dogs pretty much the exact same way I view spanking children. Like kids, dogs can ignore or simply not understand you if you yell at them. Pain, however, has a universal meaning; you did something WRONG. And thus, it is effective.
Of course, it only works if you are actually bothering to train the dog. You can't just hit the dog and walk off without showing the poor thing what it did to deserve a smack. And some animals (like the kiddos) respond just fine to other forms of negative reinforcement and don't need to be hit. Despite what some people in this thread have said (or implied) hitting IS for training.
It has been known to be able to train a dog without any form of abuse aswell as a child. I guess it just all comes down to what you believe in.
Children are smarter than we give them credit for. If your child acts up, you don't have to brutally hit them. That's not right, and it's a form of violence which is socially accepted and directed at children. How anyone sees violence directed at children as a good thing is beyond me.
If you take away one of their privileges and talk to them about it, you know, sit down and tell them what they did was wrong, ask them why they think it is wrong, and explain to them why they shouldn't do it again, then the child will respond better than they would out of fear and violence. Give them lots of praise when they do something good, and tell them how disappointed you are when they act up. Don't be violent towards your children (or pets, for that matter).
Not hitting persay, but if your dog is focusing on something she/he's not supposed to, while say on a walk, then you poke them in the side to force them to loose focus. (Yay for the Dog Whisperer ^.^)
Animals understand small retorts rather than brute force, little pokes (well effort varies on the size and build of your dog), and taps, nothing that will hurt them, just so they understand that that is the wrong behaviour, since without training, dogs don't understand a word your saying. So you give them a sign to say "thats wrong", and then you show them a correct alternative.
My boyfriends mom baby sits (he's a year and a half), and she does the same thing. Well she vocalizes the 'no' first, then its a tap on the hand or a little tap on the bum if the bad behaviour continues.
Full out hitting/ abuse of anyone is wrong, doesn't matter if it's a pet, a child, a spouse, or a random stranger.
honestly i'm a dog owner and i think i light swat is ok. like if my dog bites me when i wont let her have people food, i smack her on the nose and she stops. i don't agree with people that outright punch and kick animals, thats just abuse.
as for the shock collar comment earlier, there are certain circumstances when you need a shock collar. if you plan to train a hunting dog, you pretty much need one. shock collars don't hurt the animals just surprises them or disrupts what they are currently doing. its not like they get a full on electrocution.
@Alixness- Giving your pet a light swat is definitely not abuse. Like I said, if a dog is basically being a little brat, giving them a little smack for disciplinary purposes can be helpful.
@Kris- Not all kids are so receptive to you simply voicing your disappointment. My sister, for example, couldn't care less if my mother lectures her; she'll go right back to what she was doing anyway. In my opinion, she could have used MORE spankings as a child. Maybe then she'd be less of a spoiled brat now. :)
If you're inspiring fear in your children, you're doing it wrong. Your children shouldn't be afraid of you.
@Alixness- Giving your pet a light swat is definitely not abuse. Like I said, if a dog is basically being a little brat, giving them a little smack for disciplinary purposes can be helpful.
@Kris- Not all kids are so receptive to you simply voicing your disappointment. My sister, for example, couldn't care less if my mother lectures her; she'll go right back to what she was doing anyway. In my opinion, she could have used MORE spankings as a child. Maybe then she'd be less of a spoiled brat now. :)
If you're inspiring fear in your children, you're doing it wrong. Your children shouldn't be afraid of you.
If the dog is being a brat, hitting is not exactly necessary. I look at hitting as an easy way out. I feel that if an owner hits a dog, they just don't feel like training it with treats and rewards, which the dog will respond better to. Other people may feel differently, as you might. Hitting a dog seems foolish and stupid to me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastemoon
honestly i'm a dog owner and i think i light swat is ok. like if my dog bites me when i wont let her have people food, i smack her on the nose and she stops. i don't agree with people that outright punch and kick animals, thats just abuse.
as for the shock collar comment earlier, there are certain circumstances when you need a shock collar. if you plan to train a hunting dog, you pretty much need one. shock collars don't hurt the animals just surprises them or disrupts what they are currently doing. its not like they get a full on electrocution.
I'm a dog owner aswell. Acutally, I have 3 and I have trained all of my dogs without hitting them at all. For the hunting dog comment, my dog Max is a german shephard and is trained to hunt. He has never needed a shock collar and niether have plenty other hunting dogs. Again, I feel the shock collar and any form of abuse is the lazy way out of training your dog.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syraannabelle
Not hitting persay, but if your dog is focusing on something she/he's not supposed to, while say on a walk, then you poke them in the side to force them to loose focus. (Yay for the Dog Whisperer ^.^)
Animals understand small retorts rather than brute force, little pokes (well effort varies on the size and build of your dog), and taps, nothing that will hurt them, just so they understand that that is the wrong behaviour, since without training, dogs don't understand a word your saying. So you give them a sign to say "thats wrong", and then you show them a correct alternative.
My boyfriends mom baby sits (he's a year and a half), and she does the same thing. Well she vocalizes the 'no' first, then its a tap on the hand or a little tap on the bum if the bad behaviour continues.
Full out hitting/ abuse of anyone is wrong, doesn't matter if it's a pet, a child, a spouse, or a random stranger.
I agree completely. I wouldn't say a little poke in the side is bad. I'm talking about taps on the nose. Even though those are small, I still don't think they're effective other then teaching the dog "if you do this, your gonna get hit." I don't believe an animal should be scared into behaving.
What on earth are you talking about? You either get electrocuted or you don't, there's no inbetween.
The voltage and current of a shock may vary greatly, but the way you described it is simply incorrect.
I'd also like to point out that shock collars can often cause dogs to behave in ways they normally don't. Source.
Quote:
Polsky discusses the effect of shock collar-based fencing on the behavior of dogs, citing incidents in which dogs exposed to this type of containment committed severe aggressive attacks on humans on or near the boundary of the fence system... In every incident, the dog was within the "shock zone" and all fences were working... Four of the five dogs were not subject to threatening behavior by the victims prior to the attack. None of the dogs gave any kind of warning prior to biting, and all bit their victims repeatedly and seriously in the head, face, back and neck.
The analysis suggests that the dogs' aggression was caused by the shock.... However, the reaction of the dogs, and especially the severity of the attacks, was inconsistent with their past behavior.
Hmm.. It seems a bit cruel. I have to disagree with you. Hitting a pet with any type of force seems wrong. (Not trying to be mean) but if you hit your pets THAT hard... I don't think you deserve them and could be defined as animal abuse .-.
i definitely do think it differs. as you mentioned an animal has no idea what he is being hit for, therefore i impliment the use of water bottles with my cat. hehehe. i only use it right when he does something bad, or when he's thinking of doing it, you know when an animal is about to do something it shouldn't. lol.
as for children, it is all up to the parents how they raise their kids. personally i was hit rarely. but never in the face, just on the bum. i ONCE was backhanded, really hard, when i was fourteen, but i deserved it. i had taken my fathers car out for a joy ride. some kids learn no other way but to be threatened with an ass beating or to actually get one.
i definitely do think it differs. as you mentioned an animal has no idea what he is being hit for, therefore i impliment the use of water bottles with my cat. hehehe. i only use it right when he does something bad, or when he's thinking of doing it, you know when an animal is about to do something it shouldn't. lol.
as for children, it is all up to the parents how they raise their kids. personally i was hit rarely. but never in the face, just on the bum. i ONCE was backhanded, really hard, when i was fourteen, but i deserved it. i had taken my fathers car out for a joy ride. some kids learn no other way but to be threatened with an ass beating or to actually get one.
-shrug-
I agree with you on the kid thing, LOL ^.^
Hey, I think your doing the right thing with the water bottle. It is just water, no harm (:
I was raised in a "if you do this, you'll get hit." fashion. I'm physically scared of my parents touching me, even though it won't hurt. If they're coming at me for any reason with the intent of touching me, I'm gonna flinch at least a little. In fact, just yesterday I was walking into the office and my dad blocked the doorway and was going to pick me up in a playful fashion and carry me off (probably across the house or whatever). My first instinct was to flinch,step back a couple feet, and say "no. no no no, don't do that, seriously don't". And that is exactly what I did.
I have cats, four of them, and I treat them with as much love as I can. I don't hit them in any way, but I will say no in a stern voice when they misbehave, or I'll jump on the floor to get them to lose their focus and back off. Sometimes I'll throw a small object and purposefully miss them (I'll have it hit the window or nearby on the floor) in order to have the same effect. Unfortunately the only time I'm able to use my water bottle is when I'm working on something (I have a hairstyling mannequin). My cats know not to mess with the mannequin, since the waterbottle always stays next to it. And if they mess with it, they get a shot of water :)
Only one of the cats has ever been treated with even a slight roughness. It's the kitten, and sometimes if one of the older cats is not around, I'll roll around with him on the floor, but I'll be extra careful not to hurt him. I mean, he's a kitten, I'm mom, I'm gonna be playing with him in the floor.
I was raised in a "if you do this, you'll get hit." fashion. I'm physically scared of my parents touching me, even though it won't hurt. If they're coming at me for any reason with the intent of touching me, I'm gonna flinch at least a little. In fact, just yesterday I was walking into the office and my dad blocked the doorway and was going to pick me up in a playful fashion and carry me off (probably across the house or whatever). My first instinct was to flinch,step back a couple feet, and say "no. no no no, don't do that, seriously don't". And that is exactly what I did.
I have cats, four of them, and I treat them with as much love as I can. I don't hit them in any way, but I will say no in a stern voice when they misbehave, or I'll jump on the floor to get them to lose their focus and back off. Sometimes I'll throw a small object and purposefully miss them (I'll have it hit the window or nearby on the floor) in order to have the same effect. Unfortunately the only time I'm able to use my water bottle is when I'm working on something (I have a hairstyling mannequin). My cats know not to mess with the mannequin, since the waterbottle always stays next to it. And if they mess with it, they get a shot of water :)
Only one of the cats has ever been treated with even a slight roughness. It's the kitten, and sometimes if one of the older cats is not around, I'll roll around with him on the floor, but I'll be extra careful not to hurt him. I mean, he's a kitten, I'm mom, I'm gonna be playing with him in the floor.
I believe that, even if you play with any kind of animal rough, it will know by your energy if you mean any harm to them or not. That's why, if you notice... stepping on a cats tail once doesn't make it hate you in any way, especially if it cries and you comfort it right after (: I believe that when you are going to strike an animal, it senses your energy as bad, which is why animals (who have been hit by something) usually flinch when they notice that certain object (or hand) they have been once hit with. Take my dog Samantha for example. We rescued her. We believe she was hit with sticks because anytime my sister and I are holding something that resembles a stick, she puts her ears and tail down and runs off.
Yeah.. that might have something to do with it. One of our cats, Princess, was adopted by us from an animal shelter. she was already a couple years old when we got her, and boy was she afraid of us. It took her 7 years to get used to us and jump on our laps, even for a few minutes. It's been about.. eeh *thinks* 9 years? And she's the most affectionate cat we have xD She adores all of us. She used to favor my grandma when she lived with us, but grandma is long gone, and now she favors my dad :P
We have no idea what kind of place Princess lived in before us, but I'm glad she's a happy, healthy, affectionate cat.
