Harley, it's based on an aversion to factory farming, in my case. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with eating meat, dairy, or eggs, but I have a hard time swallowing the sort of treatment livestock are typically subjected to in the U.S.

Well, animal by-products often come from rather cruel conditions, just as meat often does.

I personally would be fine with milk and eggs, so long as the conditions in which the animals are kept are tolerable. Otherwise...keeping animals alive in such conditions honestly strikes me as worse.

On that note, I'll definitely be pigging out on eggs whenever I visit my dad's ranch. He keeps a couple flocks of free-range chickens. :D

Small family farms are often a better environment for animals than factory farms are. While I can fully understand becoming vegan for moral reasons, it's also possible to protest animal cruelty by supporting local endeavors. (As long as you can afford it, of course.) :yes:

Yeah I get that but you're not really making a difference, which makes your sacrifice pointless. The product that you might have consumed pre-vegan isn't going to be saved, like less torture for the animal, it's just going to be sent elsewhere or, worse, wasted.
I get what it's like to care, I get really angsty when I think about the government, but for all the hatred and anger that I muster, it's not going to change the unfairness of the world.

So go ahead, enjoy smelling the flowers, and eating the ice cream.

I eat cage free eggs from eggsland best. I know it's more humane than non cagefree.

Well, that's just matter of perspective, Harley. Consumers are ultimately the ones choosing what companies produce, in what quantities, and with which methods. Vegetarians and vegans pull some sway, and since their numbers are growing, they'll soon have a much bigger say in what sort of foods are produced. Same with "selective omnivores," people who do their research and only purchase humanely-farmed animal products.

Eh, I'd be more likely to protest cruel farming conditions than stopping eating meat. I come from a family of hippies. My grandparents were WAY more excited about my first protest then they were about my senior prom. xD

But if you cannot enjoy these things; if they make you feel simply barbaric (not saying that the consumption of animal products is, but if it makes one feel that way), then what is the point? Especially when going without under pressure is an exercise in willpower - which we all know that more people in this world need.

Furthermore, supply and demand determines not only the price of products, but in cases such as this, it determines the quantities produced. If demand drops, it will still be produced, yes...but not as much will be produced.

It is not entirely pointless.

I really doubt that there are that many vegans and vegetarians, but I don't have any solid proof, so we'll set that aside. Yes, the companies produce the amount of product that they think the consumers will buy, but it's still just estimation, there will still be a lot wasted because it's always better to make too much and have leftovers than to not meet the demand of the people.

Not to mention that a lot of vegetarians and vegans have health problems. They don't get nearly enough iron and don't read up on what they should be eating to replace meat, they just forfeit it.

Of course, I don't hold anything against meat-eaters. And I'm sure that when family-farmed products become more widely available (so the consumer won't have to go out of their way to visit and scan food co-ops and farmer's markets), more people will choose more humane products. It's just not very easy to do right now.

It amazing to me how different Menewsha is from Gaia. Even when in an argument, people are much more respectful.

I really doubt that family-farmed products will increase. In fact, independent agriculture is a failing endeavour. There's no money in it because in the long haul, people are more interested in cheap prices than animal rights.

The man [who tortures animals and puts farmers out of business] always wins out.

Let's just say that it's like voting - We all know that one vote doesn't actually make any difference in a Presidential election.

But if one or two people, per polling place, were to change their vote - The outcome of the entire election could change. Compared to the overall numbers, such a small segment has the potential to make a lot of difference. Just ask Al Gore.

So one person choosing to become vegan might not be too strong, but a couple people here and there in each city can have a great impact on factory farming. :yes:

Companies actually work very hard to keep supply in line with demand, because something very bad happens when you're producing more than is demanded: prices drop, and all your product loses value. This is precisely why OPEC so tightly controls the quantity of oil it sells to the United States.

Vegetarians and vegans can certainly have health problems, but they're also much healthier than the general populace, on average. Obesity, heart disease, and even cancer rates are substantially lower in the veggie crowd.

Aemilia: I am a user on Gaia. I don't think it's right to make such general categorizations, like 'all Gaia users are jerks'. >.>

I used to be a Gaian. I spent most of my time there stalking the Breedables forum. Just sort of lost interest, I guess. xD

Originally Posted by Doomfishy

Companies actually work very hard to keep supply in line with demand, because something very bad happens when you're producing more than is demanded: prices drop, and all your product loses value. This is precisely why OPEC so tightly controls the quantity of oil it sells to the United States.

Vegetarians and vegans can certainly have health problems, but they're also much healthier than the general populace, on average. Obesity, heart disease, and even cancer rates are substantially lower in the veggie crowd.

Well of course they try hard to keep supply equivalent to demand, but they don't, let's face it. Prices wouldn't drop though because the excess would just be destroyed, like it had never existed. And they can afford it because they make so much profit due to the fact that they spend next to nothing on actually getting the food from the animals.

And honestly, I'd rather live my life with the possibility of obesity or cancer than not enjoy the simple things in life that are food. You only live once.

And with that I vote that we stop this, I'm not focusing on the event and I don't want to argue with all you lovely people. D:

And I just bribed you with five gears. ;D

I'm not meaning to argue, Harley. Your food choices are your own business, as are mine. I didn't think mentioning the vegan thing would spur a mini-debate. xD

@Harley: In the ED on Gaia people can be elitists.

Lol.. I really love arguing/debating/discussing, it's a terrible habit of mine. It's so hard for me to keep stuff light and fluffy. ._.

Animal cruelty sucks though and the world is in shambles. I admire your attempt but I just see it as in vain, as with the things that I do. And I hate feeling so .. powerless and inconsequential.

Thanks Harley! - sends three spanners your way - That's all I've got. Dx

I'm a Gaia user, too. Been one since 2004. I mostly just stay in my guild, and occasionally word games and avatar talk.

I agree, Harley. I'd rather live a shorter life doing everything that I want to do than deprive myself of things just to elongate my life by a bit. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, or I could live for another 50 or so years. I'd rather keep eating meat, drinking, and smoking, for however much time I have left. *nodnod*

Thanks. Eep, I totally forgot about the Mission and Shed that entire time. >.<

If you guys are honestly interested in talking about this, create a thread over in Debates. I'm sure that you'd get a lot of other people joining in. :yes: