So....I know someone dating her cousin. I'm ohkay with this, but I know a variety of people who give her a lot of grief for this, which results in me having to be there for her and for him and give them a lot of emotional support. I realize that it's taboo, but I don't think it matters. I think if you really love someone, then there's no problem. Maybe I'm naive, but that's just me.

What does Menewsha think?

In general I have nothing against any type of relationship in which both parts are happy.When it comes to cousins, I'll admit, it is a little hard to deal with.As long as they are committed and willing to accept the implications, I have nothing against it though.People always do weird things that I don't understand but that doesn't mean it bothers me (:

I would second Elliott's post entirely. While I am personally not comfortable dating a member of my family, that is simply because I was raised to not be. Not everyone is so subject to social pressures, and more power to them. I would much rather someone be in a healthy relationship with a family member than an abusive or neglectful or just unhealthy relationship with a non-relative.

Kinship systems which involve people dating their cousin is something which is far from being unheard of in anthropology. Indeed it is my understanding* that such systems have been to the contrary a fairly common phenomenon. Indeed from my very limited exploration of kinship systems, I have come across a few explanations which attempted to place such kinship systems in relation to the social organization and thus culture as a whole. One of the more common explanations I have seen presented is the role it plays in establishing and maintaining social cohesion between groups. As Claude Levi-Strauss asserted it is a means of acquiring and maintaining alliances between groups. Now while this does not directly apply to the situation you have supplied us with. It is my awareness of it simply being another way of structuring society which enables me to be more open to the prospect of someone dating their cousin.

*Confirmation of the validity in this statement was sought from mah God, and consequently they confirmed it as being legitimate. n.n

I just hope they realize that, in most states, it's illegal for them to marry.

I don't have much else to say that Phil didn't.

i could care less if they are cousins or brother and sister, but if the genetic line is too strong they should not reproduce. If they can keep that from happening let em play with whoever they want.

Originally Posted by Keyori

I just hope they realize that, in most states, it's illegal for them to marry.

I don't have much else to say that Phil didn't.

Would that be a protection against possible in-breeding?

Let me say this . . . .

It's important for them not to be ignorant. If they are living in the right state which allows this (or country or whatever), then its fine, but I watched a documentary on much closer relatives dating: siblings, parent/children. Things like that and the people who had children went to jail. If they don't have any children, they probably won't get into trouble, but if they do, there's a good chance that they will go to jail because there's proof that they had sex (DNA proof in the children) and its illegal to do so and unlike other alternative lifestyles, no one is going to protect you from being abused by society and the government. It's considered child abuse because of the deformities and things the children can have.

Anyway, the idea of members in families marrying one another isn't a new one. They used to do this all the time and think it was normal in many different countries in the past.

Whoa, I just had a strange thought. I like to assume someday someone will make use of genetic manipulation to alter their children. If that was the common case, would laws against familial relations become outdated?

^ I think that could be possible. Most of the arguments against it are related to what kind of offspring it produces.

That's odd to think about. I guess there's a whole other debate over genetics to come first though. =P

Seeing as how "sex for reproduction" lifestyles aren't the only ones in the world (nor have they ever been), I think it's fine. Like some have mentioned above, if they're willing to step beyond the societal norm and face the social stigma associated with such "relations," good for them. I think it's something that really shouldn't be debated by the court of law, although it's hard to draw the line in such a topic without making it an even larger question of ethics. You can't just say, "must be a consenting relationship, must both be of legal age, must not inbreed" and call it a day. The world is just too damn complex and combative.

I personally like to think that love is at the far ends of the Earth, and not so close to home, but eh. Sex does not equal love, nor does love equal sex. It's all about the person's own motives in life, and their opinions. Let it be, let it be.

Am I incorrect in wondering why every conversation about these types of relationships always focuses on reproduction? They are dating. There was no implication in the original post about whether these two plan to marry and have children. Since that seems to be the first and only point that everyone jumps to concerning inter-family relationships, if they aren't having kids or planning to, the point is moot. I'm curious as to what other concepts could be employed against the idea of two cousins dating, but it never seems to happen because everyone just jumps on the "their kids will be deformed and retarded" bandwagon. Personally I think that human society may be slowly evolving to compensate for the masssive overpopulation of the planet, by causing us to form relationships that are not focused on producing children.

Caution: The next thing I am about to say could very well piss off stupid people if they read it the wrong way. I am not grouping these all together or saying one is like the other, just that they acheieve the same end.

My main examples are paedophilia and homosexuality. (AGAIN, I AM NOT COMPARING THE TWO TO EACH OTHER.) I think Nature has figured out that they cannot take the urge for reproduction out of humans, or reduce it drastically enough to effectively lower the population. To compensate, more people are drawn to relationships that cannot naturally produce children. Two males or females cannot create a child, and prepubescent male or female child cannot concieve with an adult. These relationships may be sexual in nature but will not produce children, so the desire for procreation can be satisfied without contributing to overpopulation. Perhaps relationships between closely related humans are another one in this category. On a basic level, if two cousins had a child who was born with some sort of physical or mental retardation, that child would not survive 'in the wild' as it were, and thus would not contribute to overpopulation. In a more modern sense, two cousins/siblings/whatever who are having sex have the knowledge of genetics enough to know that their children will likely be born with a pyshical or mental retardation of some sort, and take the apprpriate measures to prevent conception. So once you take kids out of the equation, what's left? Same thing as a couple who chooses not to have kids and can otherwise lead a healthy life and carry on a healthy relationship.

(Just for the record, I have no problem with homosexuality, but I'm not down with paedophilia. As far as incest goes, again if they aren't having kids, who's to say who you can't fall in love with? I am NOT saying that any of these lifestyle choices are either justified or should be criminalized based on the critera of reproduction, it's just my theory.)

This is sort of off-topic, but addressing something that's been said a few times. If we ignore the "OMG ICKY" people, we're generally left with two main arguments. The first, which has been touched on, is inbreeding. Not only does it assume that two people who are in a relationship will have children (thank you, Aldrea, for bringing this up), it assumes that they can (not all incestuous relationships are between a male and a female), and that if they do, their offspring will be some horrible, deformed, possibly cannibalistic mutants. That's not the way inbreeding works. It takes several generations of inbreeding before the offspring have a noticeably higher chance of carrying some genetic disease or defect. Look at dogs -- most dog breeds are the result of decades, sometimes even centuries of inbreeding. Yet they haven't developed any superpowers or hideous mutations, and while every breed does have certain health issues associated with it, not every (or in some cases, even most) dog of that breed suffers from them. And that's after many, many generations. A single generation of human inbreeding would almost certainly result in offspring who are perfectly normal.

The second argument, however, is one that I don't think we should dismiss. The same issue that arises when teachers date students and bosses date employees applies to some incestuous relationships: often, even if it is not parent/child, older family members are considered to have authority over younger ones. This doesn't stop when the younger ones are adults, either. So, there's a very real risk of the younger feeling forced to take part in a relationship, out of fear of punishment or being disowned. I'm not suggesting that such is happening in the relationship the OP mentions, but it's something we definitely need to keep in mind.

I personally wouldn't date a cousin. I see it as fine for someone else to do so, though.
I think that things like this are difficult to grasp for people because family lives vary so drastically from household to household. Some of us may have grown up with our cousins around often; others might not have met until they were older.

And, as for the genetic problems, they will only occur if there's been a long line of family marriages. I think between two cousins it's perfectly alright so long as they check their parents aren't cousins, first. xD

Sorry I've taken so long. I would've come back much earlier, but I honestly wasn't trying too hard because my topics never get as many posts as this in such a short amount of time. Also, my internet's been screwy. But, like I said, I COULD have tried harder and probably been back sooner, I just didn't.

Well, upon reading the conversation up to this point, I'll elaborate on a few things for clarity. :) Hopefully this will provide insight into the points made and thus lead to further discussion.

1: As has been stated, the first thing everyone is worried about: Does this couple plan to marry/have kids?
Yes. I'm going to say that honestly. They do realize it's illegal for them to really get married, but you can have an unofficial kind of ceremony without a license (Like a playground wedding :P) or an ordained minister. This is what they plan to do, and they'll count it as marriage with each other, but with the world and the government, they realize it's not actually marriage. They do also plan to have children, some through adoption, some of their own. They've done a reasonable amount of research on this and know the risks(which Philomel stated pretty accurately). Of course, none of this is in the near future. They're technically not even engaged yet.

2: What about their ages and genders? Exactly what kind of relationship is this?
She's a girl. Her cousin's a boy. The relationship is heterosexual. She's about eight months younger than said cousin, so they're really about the same age. They don't treat each other with dominance or anything. They're quite happy together, actually. They've never had a fight, and have been together for a couple of months now.

3: How are they facing social pressure?
Well...they're not. Only a few close friends to the cousins in questions are aware of the relationship. No one else in the family is even aware of it. After she graduates, they plan to tell everyone. That will be another year, though.

:) I hope this information helps!

They seem like a level-headed couple and they have their stuff straight. They know they'll get backlash from their family, but hopefully they are prepared to support each other through that. I see nothing wrong here.

Here's a list of state laws about marriage between cousins.

And I think what people meant about their age is, are they out of high school yet, or are they in college, or do they have well-established careers?

I would never date someone who was related to me in any way, shape or form but to each his own. It's not my relationship, it's theirs and it's not my place to judge on it. The only time I would have a problem would be if they were harming someone, their children or otherwise, but as it's already been stated, they seem well put together and they know what they're doing, so why bother them?

Am I incorrect in wondering why every conversation about these types of relationships always focuses on reproduction?

I personally feel like that happens because no one has any strong opinion on any other segment of the relationship other than 'good for them for finding someone,' because generally, people like it when other people find love and such. I think that's the main reason.

Well, I think it's just fine. Was Roosevelt dating his distant cousin? Yes. They had some kids and well, It's fine. But personally, I wouldn't date my cousin...but I tried to kiss him once. LOL. Or should I? LOL.

The Roosevelts, as I recall, were actually first cousins, they just grew up on different sides of the family and didn't know each other until later in life. :)

The English Royal family is full of marriages that are between distant relations. Because they are royal that is some how acceptable.

If I remember correctly, and do correct me if I'm wrong, there aren't really any medical downsides to mating with a close cousin, only a direct sibling. Families and locales have practised this kind of incest for generations. This doesn't make it right, of course, just because it's an established "tradition" of sorts, but I think it proves that there aren't really too many downsides. Social stigma surrounding these relationships is relatively modern.

From what you've said, this couple seem to have their heads screwed on properly, and we're to assume they're very much in love. I personally don't see much of a problem here, but that's just my view.

Originally Posted by Lorika

If I remember correctly, and do correct me if I'm wrong, there aren't really any medical downsides to mating with a close cousin, only a direct sibling. Families and locales have practised this kind of incest for generations. This doesn't make it right, of course, just because it's an established "tradition" of sorts, but I think it proves that there aren't really too many downsides. Social stigma surrounding these relationships is relatively modern.

From what you've said, this couple seem to have their heads screwed on properly, and we're to assume they're very much in love. I personally don't see much of a problem here, but that's just my view.

I think it has to be a culture of inbreeding over a length of time. We can look at royal families to see this i.e. haemophilia, but it is probably better observed in domesticated animals. Pedigree animals are often inbred and as a result suffer numerous health problems.:)