Let me quote a friend of mine who started a really similar debate on the same subject:

"Well, for the longest time, I thought gays and lesbians (sorry for the labels) were loved by God, because God loves everyone. Then my mom told me that God thinks they shouldn't love people of the same sex, so they're going to hell.

I DON'T GET IT. So what if you like someone the same sex? You're automatically going to hell? What if that person is a believer of God? What if that person has made good differences in people's lives?

Does God really care about who you fall in love with? I think he cares about whether or not you believe in him."

Edit;; I'm not strictly christian. I believe that there's a god and a heaven and a hell, as well as the whole "Adam and Eve" story, but that's about as far as my beliefs go.

Editt;; Also, is Christianity the only religion that's against same-sex love?

*sigh* this falls into a debate about religion, which never has a 'yes' or 'no' answer, as some people are so direct in their beliefs they cannot see the big picture.

(Now, never quote me, since I usually get names wrong and I'm way to tired to find sources right now) but the Catholic religion frowns on same-sex couples, and it has been mentioned a few times that homosexuals, and I've also heard of bisexuals being told they're going to hell.

Now this also brings up the question of 'what is hell'? No one can really define it, or prove that it exist.

I look at it this way. My beliefs have nothing against gays or bi's so you know what, let them be. I'm bisexual myself, and I'm proud of it.

Well, considering you're using the terms "sin" and "Hell", I assume you mean according to Christianity. And in that case, it's up for a lot of debate. Some use the Levitical laws to condemn homosexuality, but those laws were not meant for Christians, they are not followed by Christians, and many (the homosexuality one included) is describing ritual purity, not right behaviour in general. Others use the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, but those people are intentionally ignoring all the other sins they were guilty of -- thievery, murder, rape, inhospitable treatment of visitors -- and going for the gay thing, which isn't even applicable given the context. The rest of the verses most often used are completely mistranslated (the false word "arsenokoites" that is inexplicably translated as "homosexual" with no context to support that translation or any translation, other words that mean, among other things, pedophilic relationships between men and boys, premarital sex, men that aren't "masculine", infertile men, and men who have had their genitals injured in some way, etc.).

And then there's the matter of, do those who do not follow YHVH go to some sort of torment after death? There's not really anything to suggest they do -- the mentions of a Hell-like place actually refer to garbage dumps, the grave, and a place in non-Abrahamic mythology (and here's a pro-tip: if your Bible outright mentions the word "Hell", don't trust it, because that word did not exist until long after the Bible was written and thus they've left quite a bit out of their translation). Revelation mentions a place of fiery torment, but does not suggest that human souls go there. And also, what does it mean to follow YHVH anyway? According to Yeshua, it means loving your neighbor (something those Christians who are hateful toward homosexuals are arguably not doing) and loving YHVH. But that last bit is debatable, as Yeshua also mentions that many who do not follow YHVH will be accepted into Heaven because, by being loving, they have followed him, and many who do follow YHVH will not. So it's all rather convoluted, but condemning gays requires one to ignore some of the biggest parts of the Bible and Christian doctrine.

All that aside, all this only really matters if you're Christian. If you're not, whether or not they're hateful really only affects you as much as the individual Christians affect you, and in that case, it doesn't really matter whether or not their religion can back up what they believe.

I believe there are actually 2 passage in the Bible that describe acts of a man and a man together..(tried to go look them up buutti cant find them.. plus i dont read the bible.. ))
However.
Those two acts are ment towards. A grown man going after a young boy.
Not about people of the same age in a loving relationship.

I can't speak for any other faithes (Because I don't know them inside and out) but the Catholic Church says that being gay is fine as long as you don't act on it (i.e try to get married) because in the eyes of the Catholic Church marriage is meant to strenthen the bond of love and have kids and you need to be able to do both with only your partner. So they have no qualms with the homosexual, except they cannot get married because it is a fruitless marriage (just like if you get married and your spouse doesn't want kids you can get a justified divorce in the Church because it's a fruitless marriage) The Catholic Church also says that sin occurs in the mind and that the only one who can truely know if you are sinning is yourself (ie no one can judge you but yourself and God) and that's the Church's view on homosexuality.
I think it's stupid to hate someone because they just like a different sex. Some of them can't help it and were always that way, but I do understand that Catholic Churches view on the matter.
I hope this helps :)

If gays are sinners, due to their very nature that they were born with, then why would the Christian god create them that way? If you truly believe that gay people are going to hell, then you also must believe that god is not infallible, as he messed up in creating gay people, or that god didn't actually create people at all. Either way, if you believe that gay people are automatically going to hell, your belief in Christianity is hypocritical. Either that, or god is sadistic and created some people that are damned from birth.

Also, with the passage from Leviticus? I believe that Queer as Folk best summed up what is wrong with using that passage to support gay bashing.

Cody: Mind if I ask you a question, Pastor?
Pastor: Please.
Cody: This book, you have to believe all of it, not just some of it, right?
Pastor: That's right.
Cody: So, do you like shrimp?
Pastor: Well, as a matter of fact I do.
Cody: Because in Leviticus, a few scriptures before that man lying with man is an abomination one, it also says it's an abomination to eat shellfish, and shrimp are shellfish, right?
Pastor: What's your point, young man?
Cody: I believe the point is, if you can eat shrimp, we can eat cock.
Pastor: Son, you need the Lord. You need to accept Jesus.
Cody: Oh, I accept Jesus. It's assholes like you, I have a problem with.

*giggles* I very much liked that quote Linhir! I've never seen the show before... maybe now I will...

I do like that quote, Linhir. However, it's not hypocritical so much as stupid. Study after study has shown that your sexuality is not something you choose, but many homophobes (including most if not all of the Christians who are against gays) still believe it is. So to them, it's less a matter of their god creating an abomination, and more a matter of their god allowing people to choose what they do.

Of course, like I said, it's a completely idiotic view of things that isn't supported by reality, so I'm not saying you should try to understand them or give them any slack. But still, we should try to avoid misrepresenting their opinion.

I think the title of this thread is very offensive.


I know some religions don't accept some sexual preferences, such as homosexuality, but I am not super religious, which is why my opinion is that some people are born different than others.

I was born a little different than other people, not gay, but different.

Just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean they should go to hell.

Sometimes people go through phases as well. So if EVERYONE that is or has ever been gay is going to hell, a lot of people would be going to hell. Sometimes teenagers try to find themselves, and think that going with the same gender is what they want, but they may not know.

So my opinion is that gay people will not go to hell.
If anything, I think they should go to heaven for being so brave to stand up for what they believe, even if others may disagree.

Originally Posted by Indies

I think the title of this thread is very offensive.


I know some religions don't accept some sexual preferences, such as homosexuality, but I am not super religious, which is why my opinion is that some people are born different than others.

I was born a little different than other people, not gay, but different.

Just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean they should go to hell.

Sometimes people go through phases as well. So if EVERYONE that is or has ever been gay is going to hell, a lot of people would be going to hell. Sometimes teenagers try to find themselves, and think that going with the same gender is what they want, but they may not know.

So my opinion is that gay people will not go to hell.
If anything, I think they should go to heaven for being so brave to stand up for what they believe, even if others may disagree.

Get over it. It's a title. It draws people in and its a topic. Quite frankly I find your entire thing on 'phases' to be a tad be off-key with how a persons hormones work which quite frankly embarrasses me that you would even go off topic to put it out there.

So, this 'phase' in which you speak of is just a 'thing'? Homosexuals have a choice on which they get aroused by? So when my friend doesn't get aroused to a chick that wants to have sex with him but gets aroused within 5 seconds of looking at this dude he thinks is hot that is just a phase?

Who the hell teaches science classes now and days? Are the only teachers now and days fuckin' morons?

Leviticus also says you can own a foreigner, so where's my Canadian?
That particular part of the bible is silly and the point is that we should stand by the Golden Rule: Love thy neighbor as thyself. *Group hug*

Wow this has sparked a lot of heated discussion. I find it interesting that the "fire starter" so to speak hasn't even responded to anything. I'm a big fan of equality to all. And a bigger fan of balance. I believe in few things. One of them is Karma. Take it for what you will. Even though I was once a Christian I never believed that people were "sinners" for falling in love. Even long before I was bi-sexual myself.

Make me wounder about people who have both male and female parts
What are they suppose to do?
If there fallowing the word of god very strickly

Originally Posted by Tijdon

Get over it. It's a title. It draws people in and its a topic.

And on most forum sites, it would be against the rules. As Feyona mentioned, it's a "fire starter", so to speak -- it immediately puts people on the defensive and sets up an extremely hostile atmosphere before anyone even posts. I'm not sure of the policy here, but were this Gaia, the creator would be asked to change the title and if she refused, the thread would be locked.

Quite frankly I find your entire thing on 'phases' to be a tad be off-key with how a persons hormones work which quite frankly embarrasses me that you would even go off topic to put it out there.

Not really? People do go through phases, and they are attracted to different things throughout their lives. For some, it's as minor a change as hair colour or personality type, but for others, it's more than that. I've known at least a few people who were one way for awhile, then completely changed. A friend of mine was nigh-asexual for awhile, then was just crazy about women for a bit, and then was only into men.

So, this 'phase' in which you speak of is just a 'thing'? Homosexuals have a choice on which they get aroused by? So when my friend doesn't get aroused to a chick that wants to have sex with him but gets aroused within 5 seconds of looking at this dude he thinks is hot that is just a phase?

Kindly calm the fuck down. He did not, in any way, say any of that. I'll quote what he actually said, maybe you'll read it this time:

Originally Posted by Indies

Sometimes people go through phases as well. So if EVERYONE that is or has ever been gay is going to hell, a lot of people would be going to hell. Sometimes teenagers try to find themselves, and think that going with the same gender is what they want, but they may not know.

SOMETIMES. Not all the time, not everyone, and gays choosing to be gay was not even mentioned nor suggested. He said that "sometimes people go through phases" and that is completely true. So stop freaking out and actually contribute something to the discussion.

Who the hell teaches science classes now and days? Are the only teachers now and days fuckin' morons?

It has absolutely nothing to do with science class. For one thing, the "cause" of homosexuality or heterosexuality or any other type of sexuality is still completely up for debate. They've never found a gene or a psychological trigger or anything that definitively explains why people are attracted to the sex or gender they are. I'd be rather upset if a science teacher even addressed the issue, quite frankly. And if anyone doesn't understand how hormones work, it's you. Most heterosexuals go through a phase when they think those of a different sex are completely icky and don't want anything to do with them. Hormones change how we interact with and feel about people in general, so suggesting that no one's attractions ever change is completely ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Indies

I think the title of this thread is very offensive.


I know some religions don't accept some sexual preferences, such as homosexuality, but I am not super religious, which is why my opinion is that some people are born different than others.

I was born a little different than other people, not gay, but different.

Just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean they should go to hell.

Sometimes people go through phases as well. So if EVERYONE that is or has ever been gay is going to hell, a lot of people would be going to hell. Sometimes teenagers try to find themselves, and think that going with the same gender is what they want, but they may not know.

So my opinion is that gay people will not go to hell.
If anything, I think they should go to heaven for being so brave to stand up for what they believe, even if others may disagree.

I didn't mean it as to say they "ARE" going to hell. Maybe I should've ended it with a question mark? >__>;;

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Originally Posted by disturbed66

Make me wounder about people who have both male and female parts
What are they suppose to do?
If there fallowing the word of god very strickly

Oh man, that's a good question.

O__O No clue.

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Originally Posted by FeyonaSaibre

Wow this has sparked a lot of heated discussion. I find it interesting that the "fire starter" so to speak hasn't even responded to anything. I'm a big fan of equality to all. And a bigger fan of balance. I believe in few things. One of them is Karma. Take it for what you will. Even though I was once a Christian I never believed that people were "sinners" for falling in love. Even long before I was bi-sexual myself.

XD The "fire-starter" doesn't really go on menewsha very often...

And even if I don't reply I've been reading every comment.

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Originally Posted by Philomel

And on most forum sites, it would be against the rules. As Feyona mentioned, it's a "fire starter", so to speak -- it immediately puts people on the defensive and sets up an extremely hostile atmosphere before anyone even posts. I'm not sure of the policy here, but were this Gaia, the creator would be asked to change the title and if she refused, the thread would be locked.
.

I'm not quite sure about the policy here, either. I would change the title, however I don't know how D;

You can edit the title but clicking "edit" on the first post, then "Go advanced" :)

Originally Posted by Tijdon

Who the hell teaches science classes now and days? Are the only teachers now and days fuckin' morons?

Nowadays was the term you were lookin' for there. Just saying.

Also, I've had this conversation many a time with my former best friend who is three bible verses short of being fundamentalist christian, seeing as I'm bisexual myself. I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. Homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality are not choices. They are just discoveries.

By the way, girls that fake being bi to get guys make me sick. They are giving girls like me a bad name, and in some cases, false hope. That's the real lie. Well, them, and the men who go on television and claim to Christians everywhere that Jesus "healed their gayness". :headdesk:

By my understanding of what is sin, most of us are going to hell. Oh well. =P

My friend used to joke that if you're Catholic, you're going to hell if you eat, breathe, and sleep.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Antacid

You can edit the title but clicking "edit" on the first post, then "Go advanced" :)

Thanks! I'll go do that then. ^^

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I changed the title for those of you that were offended by it XD

Originally Posted by Lapin

I'm not quite sure about the policy here, either. I would change the title, however I don't know how D;

I didn't mean to rip on you or anything, lol. And I'm sure you didn't mean anything bad by it :) I was mostly making a point. Also, glad you decided to get involved in the debates :heart:

A lot of it depends on your beliefs. If you strongly believe that a good and loving God is going to sit back and tell you you're going to burn "forever" in the fiery pits of hell just because you've decided that you didn't like the opposite gender. Then you're free to believe that. And I won't make fun of you for it or tell you you're wrong either. I believe everyone has a right to believe what they want to. Life is hard enough without trying to tear down the walls of that which keeps us together.

Any Christian [seeing as how this is the religion most people choose to rip on] who makes any remarks on who is going where - All I can think of is that 'Isn't it a sin to try and be god?' And than I laugh at the irony that said person 'is going to hell'.

Though, that really is all I can contribute... I'm not a believer. :]

I should imagine that the Christian God would love his homosexual and bisexual children regardless.

First off, Christianity as a religion is not against homosexuality. There are some individuals and groups who, while claiming to be Christian, believe that it is a "sin" for one reason or another. However, they do not speak for the religion and all of its followers. Nowhere in Christian doctrine did God or Jesus actually say that it was wrong to love, be attracted to, or sleep with someone of the same sex. The common misconception that the Bible includes "anti-gay" material comes from mistranslation and misinterpretation. I can't tell you how many times I've seen so-called Christians taking pieces of the Bible completely out of context and pretending to know what they meant.
Secondly, as according to the Christian religion, committing a sin does not automatically send one to Hell. After all, the religion acknowledges that ALL humans who live long enough to do so will sin in one way or another. That is where Jesus comes in: men are forgiven of their sins through his sacrifice and their repentance.
I grew up in an entirely Christian family. I read the Bible, went to church, and took Bible study classes in school. Taking everything that I learned and read after studying the true nature of the Bible and its passages, I long ago came to the conclusion that God does not have a problem with anything that does not hurt oneself or others. Homosexuality is one of those things that hurts no one. It is a natural occurrence, and God has absolutely no reason to be against it. He is not a petty character who would condemn such a thing, much less condemn a person simply for being that way.