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Cardinal Biggles
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#1851
Old 02-14-2014, 09:03 PM

Hi HIM!

I'd get a kitten if I had my way (I'd love to adopt a special needs one), but I already have two cats, including one that is 20. So it's not that simple to add another to the environment.

It must be nice to live in such an animal friendly neighbourhood. Mine is too, but I live in the woods, so there aren't that many people around to make it an actual neighbourhood.

How did you get so well trained in handling animals?

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#1852
Old 02-14-2014, 09:13 PM

Oh man, yeah. Twenty year old kitties don't take well to babies. Definitely best to wait.
I can't get another cat of any kind because my old man (he's 13) loves kittens and malnourished cats (he even feeds them and helps them get to his food bowl). But once they become well fed adults, he HATES them. He ran off his own sister. He's so weird.

I wanted to be a vet since I was six (when my sister and I got to care for orphaned lambs). So I've made it a point to get a lot of training. I worked at a lot of vet's offices, volunteered at a wildlife center and other places, and then I went to a year of vet school. It turns out my depression made being a vet not a thing that is likely to happen. But I still love working with animals.

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#1853
Old 02-14-2014, 09:27 PM

Ha, that is funny. Cats really have more unique personalities than people give them credit for.

Ah, cool. At least you persued your dream that far. I thought about going into wildlife management when I was 14, but eventually decided against it because I figured I could always volunteer to work rehabbing animals as a civilian.

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#1854
Old 02-14-2014, 09:35 PM

Cats have all sorts of personalities. I would be every bit as fond of them as I am of dogs if I weren't allergic. But as it is, dogs are my first love because I can, you know, love on them. Without turning into a leaking, swollen mess.

Yeah...I'd love to go back, but I took a hard look at the depression statistics and really, it's just not a job that a clinically depressed person should have.

How funny, my masters degree is in wildlife science. I wouldn't recommend it unless you really like researching game animals or managing ranches for deer. You should totally look for a wildlife rescue near you. They always take volunteers and it's SO wonderful.

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#1855
Old 02-14-2014, 10:47 PM

I understand. Depression totally derailed my life too. It's been fits and starts for the past ten years, but I feel like maybe I'm on the other side of it.

And you probably made the right decision by not going into veterinary medicine then. Even as a kid, when people would tell me I should be a vet, I only could think of the disheartening things related to it.

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#1856
Old 02-14-2014, 11:00 PM

I love veterinary medicine. But 36 hour semesters, high stress, and never seeing the sun is problematic.
I do very well with the right meds and regular exercise and a moderately less stressful job. Teaching doesn't mess with my depression nearly so much.

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#1857
Old 06-24-2014, 07:03 AM

How about that Caravaggio, huh?

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#1858
Old 06-24-2014, 08:33 AM

Yesssss. Much Chiaroscuro. So Tennis.

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#1859
Old 06-24-2014, 09:13 AM

ER MAH GERD, ERTS A THRERD TER PERST ERN!


Ahem, sorry, I couldn't help myself... I saw this thread and felt compelled to post in it, because it has cool people in it. then I see the word "chiaroscuro", and realize that Biggles is the only other person I've seen use the word on any forum.


This has doubly compelled me, so please forgive me posting with my mule, I know it might be confusing...

*is VeraDark*

Last edited by Ermahgerd Berks; 06-24-2014 at 09:21 AM..

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#1860
Old 06-25-2014, 01:03 AM

I had a lit teacher who once described the poetry of William Carlos Williams as chiaroscuro. He was using it abstractly, of course, as it cannot literally possess the qualities. But he saw it as related in heavily accentuating certain details while "shading" everything irrelevant. He put it better than I did, and it's the sort of abstraction that's a little difficult to explain... but I think I see what he means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Carlos Williams
so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Carlos Williams
At ten A.M. the young housewife
moves about in negligee behind
the wooden walls of her husband’s house.
I pass solitary in my car.
Then again she comes to the curb
to call the ice-man, fish-man, and stands
shy, uncorseted, tucking in
stray ends of hair, and I compare her
to a fallen leaf.
The noiseless wheels of my car
rush with a crackling sound over
dried leaves as I bow and pass smiling.
As for Caravaggio, dude was living on the edge for sure. Saw a documentary on his life and in my attempt to take notes I just sort of ended up writing down his entire timeline. Good resource to have, though.

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#1861
Old 06-25-2014, 07:17 AM

[Cherry, she thinks we're cool. No sudden moves, we don't want to frighten her]

@Vera: I do tend to verbalize myself into obscurity that way But hey, that's what this thread is all about!

@Cherry: Oh, I see what he means. I think there is a lot of room for overlap when it comes to the different aspects of the humanities and terminology. They all delicately tap into something elemental. Especially something like say, south american magical realism. There's a lot to that that works well when conceptualized in visual terms

I know I've talked about him in here before, but if we are responding to the tenor and tones (not in the sense of tonalism, although we could talk about it in the sense of tonalism, that could be fun) of Caravaggio's works, Gabriel von Max's works taps into something similar

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#1862
Old 06-25-2014, 07:31 AM

PERSON THINK COOL? AUGH. UGH! HRRNNGGG. ACT CASUAL!


I have to say that I have zero knowledge of South African magical realism. I've heard of magical realism in general, and it sounded absolutely wonderful, but I've yet to read any of it yet. Just sitting there on my miles long to-read list. So do tell what South African magical realism is.

And oh, you would have loved my professor. I did. I loved his class so much that I signed up for another class of his the following semester. Challenging courses, but always very rewarding. I loved that he never did powerpoints, never spoke from a bulleted list (except maybe notes to himself to keep on-track, but not the sort of bulleted list that could completely replace the lecture it). Just spoke about themes, symbolism, and all the ways it tied into what was going on in the world around the literature (such as the tie-in to chiaroscuro). He didn't so much tell you what to think, but showed you how.

Of course, that's a style of lecture not afforded to most professors for the subject matter (themes don't mean shit in biology ), but all the English teachers I had before him certainly didn't get the memo. Dry bullet points of facts, then they would expect you to somehow be able to write an insightful paper by....? How? How are you supposed to write a paper when they've done nothing but teach you definitions? I'm not writing a paper on the definitions of various genres, what do you want me to do with this, Knobloch?!?!?????

Okay, maybe getting a little personal there.

But getting back on track... my lit professor was wonderful and I'm going to miss his classes. Luckily for me, he cohosts a show on a local independent radio station. I haven't caught his show yet, but I've caught many others. All sorts of music you don't usually hear (I heard ska jazz! Carpathian mountain music! International folk music! Old-timey bluegrass!) and the hosts all spend a fair amount of time providing background to what they're playing, teaching you about the context, nuances, etc. So I'm sure he'll do the same on his show. Unfortunately, his show is on Saturday nights, and that's my date night, but... well, maybe I can have it on in the car on the way there. Hey Preston, want to hear that prof who never gave you an A talk about Reggae for a bit? Pleeeeaaasse?

So I've looked up Gabrielle von Max to see what you're talking about, but I'm being distracted by the large amounts of monkeys here. Goodness this is a lot of monkeys.

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#1863
Old 06-25-2014, 07:43 AM

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. Lit and the humanities are meant to stimulate, and teaching about them must tap into that to be truly effective

Well, where to start. I suppose one of the prominent authors of magical realism would be Isabel Allende. She's written several novels, as well as short stories. Here's a TED talk she did, not about magical realism, but about the people with her stories:
Isabel Allende | Speaker | TED.com

Von Max lived with all those monkeys you know He was fascinated both by that natural sciences and by the spiritualism of the time, so his work is a riveting combination of perspectives.
I'm just going to throw a few things out there:




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#1864
Old 06-25-2014, 07:56 AM

Oh no, you've found my weakness. Ted talks. More specifically, that I never, ever watch them because even though I will spend hours at the computer I go "ten minutes? I don't have time for that." Shitty, I know, but I'm just being honest with myself at this point. Could you summarize the genre/movement's themes, characteristics, or whatever you feel is crucial?

Living! With! Monkeys! That's nuts, yo. I have a book about that, actually. I haven't read it, but I own it. Some guy in the 60s who built this huge monkey habitat off of his house and allowed the monkeys to come inside. studied them and their behavior, social patterns, etc. Mid-century style science, you know? Ethics be damned, there's science to do! Surprisingly there is, like, nothing about this book on the internet. I just stumbled on it in a thrift shop and was drawn to the cover because it has a monkey pattern all across it. Anyway, what was I saying? Right, monkey painter. Why did he live with monkeys?

Those works are quite nice! A lot of heavy chiaroscuro, but beyond that I don't see much relation to Caravaggio. 'Vaggio was all about the intensely dark, gruesome, haunted stuff. I feel like von Max's works there have a certain serenity to them. I feel like the woman in the second one is meant to be dying, and of course there's a crucified woman in the last, but they both seem so... peaceful and content about it. Like the woman in the second just woke up, thought she was late, checked her lil watch there and discovered she can actually go back to sleep for a couple more hours.

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#1865
Old 06-25-2014, 08:56 AM

This is lazy of me, but here's a bullet pointed list about the elements of Magical Realism:
Quote:
Characteristics of magical realism include five primary traits:

An "irreducible" magic which cannot be explained by typical notions of natural law.
A realist description that stresses normal, common, every-day phenomena, which is then revised or "refelt" by the marvelous. Extreme or amplified states of mind or setting are often used to accomplish this. (This distinguishes the genre from pure myth or fantasy.)
It causes the reader to be drawn between the two views of reality.
These two visions or realms nearly merge or intersect.
Time is both history and the timeless; space is often challenged; identity is broken down at times.
Secondary characteristics often included are:

The work is often metafictional or self-referential.
The text may employ a "verbal magic" where metaphors are treated as reality.
Phenomenological states may include the primitive or childless that seem to dislocate our initial perceptions/understandings.
Repetition, as well as mirror reversals, are employed.
Metamorphoses take place.
Magic often is used against the established order.
"Ancient systems of belief and local lore often underlie the text."This results in a respect (however complicated) for local faith.
Collective symbols and myths rather than individual ones haunt the work.
The fiction in form and language often embraces the carnivalesque.
from here: Magical Realism
And here's a pdf of one of Allende's stories. It's only seven pages, and I think it is worth the few minutes it would take
http://thomasuwwritinglab.net/first-.../two-words.pdf

Re: the paintings
Some if it is down to context: all those painting are about death. In the third one, the young woman is about to be executed. In the second one, the woman is on her deathbed. The fourth one is self-explanatory, but the first one, let's talk about the first one. It's a madonna, specifically a Mater Dolorosa at the foot of the cross. Notice her skin. That's not a living person's skin, it's one undergoing the process of decay. That's actually something von Max did a few times in career, mixing the life and death to create an uncanny effect. In this case, it underlines the greater theme of death and suggest the emotional/psychological toll on the mother of christ. The desolation of spirit is further emphasised by the landscape/background, which is almost Munch-ian, I think. And it's tapping into a type of grotesque that isn't too far removed from Caravaggio, in my mind. Possibly because it is so Baroque.

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#1866
Old 06-25-2014, 01:46 PM

I think Goya's work was a lot like that, but he had a rougher, more severe style to it, which is only natural considering the emotions he was working with, and his themes, like Saturn devouring his children...

And I think chiaroscuro finds an awful lot of use in many forms of writing, and is one of the more meaningful (in my experience) textures a writer can use. It's certainly a lot more honest and closer to expressing reality as humanity knows it than some view of heavenly brilliance and effulgence with some flying naked babies in the midst of it for no good reaso could... That was all just wishful thinking and gilded lilies.

We have, quite literally, been trying to emerge out of the darkness and into the light since we first conceived of a difference between the two, and acknowledging that there's barely enough light to see what's happening around us is more realistic to me than any of the idealized classics.

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#1867
Old 06-26-2014, 01:30 AM

Hmm, fine points, Biggles. Alright, I see where you're coming from now. I can see the relation to Goya as well.

As for magical realism, I'm somewhat familiar with the basic principles. However, you specified South African Magical Realism. Is there a distinction between that and straight magical realism, or did you just mean that that is where the author is from?

And okay, the short story is open in a tab and I'll read it soon. Promise.

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#1868
Old 06-26-2014, 02:25 AM

South American Magical Realism...

Just reading the words makes me think of aboriginals snorting mimosa bark and drinking yage and getting all magical with their realism.

If that's not some sort of artistically-inspired culture, I don't know what is.

On a darker note (like a chiaroscuro), I am afraid of something.

I'm afraid I may have to kidnap Biggles, just so I've always got someone around whom I can talk to and who might understand me... no matter my subject.

I have a sneaking suspicion he even knows how to use Google unaided...

It's almost spooky.

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#1869
Old 06-26-2014, 02:33 AM

Oh, I said South American. And that was just because that's an area that seems to have most strongly embraced the genre, imo. And yeah, Allende would be an example of that. As would Gabriel Marquez Garcia

Yeah, I would have to agree about Goya, especially his darker works. Though... they were very much a product of his life and the times, in particular the french invasions of Spain. But then there is something very victorian that threads itself into von Max's works, so they really aren't so different in that sense. I also always associate Goya with Velasquez.
One painting that I've talked about before in here, but wussed out posting again is von Max's Der Anatom: http://www.menewsha.com/forum/commun...post1770097659
But again, along with an Caravaggio comparison, I see a strong influence of the German Romanticism movement as well, though von Max is later.

@Vera: Well, I feel less creepy saying I am like, half in love with you and your brain right now, then

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#1870
Old 06-26-2014, 02:58 AM

That makes it all much more non-spooky/creepy all around, knowing it's mutual.

And you can even spell Caravaggio properly...

*resists the urge to have some sort of bizarre fangirl moment on you*

Under control. I have it under control...




*hides the duct tape*

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#1871
Old 06-26-2014, 05:27 AM

Agh, curse my brain for misreading that. I know the difference between South Africa and South America, honestly! At least I didn't think you said South Korea or South Dakota or something...

I do see some similarities to Caravaggio there!

While we're drawing comparisons to Caravaggio, instead of just focusing on the chiaroscuro and gruesome subject matter, what about his self-deprecating style? I mean, don't forget that he painted himself as a decapitated Goliath.

Somewhat of a repentance for his recent crimes, but... dude was haunted. You don't just paint yourself beheaded like that to say "sorry." I feel like he hated himself for having such trouble controlling his temper and impulses.

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#1872
Old 06-26-2014, 06:04 AM

Interesting. That's a much more complex interpretation of it that my general appraisal that he didn't do anything by halves, so when he had the idea for something that would shock, he went with it.

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#1873
Old 06-26-2014, 06:38 AM

I can't really take credit for it, as all I know about Caravaggio I know from Simon Schama's Power of Art documentary about him. It makes sense in the timeline, since it followed a major misdeed. Hold on, lemme check my notes...

Ah, right. He tried to kill someone, fled, then that caught up with him and he was assaulted and left for dead.

Interestingly, it's not the first time he used a beheading to symbolize the evils of (and thus his regret for) violence. His John the Baptist...

Is thought to be an apology of sorts, a swearing off of and condemnation of violence, following when he actually killed someone. This was before the incident that inspired Goliath, though, so we see how well that worked out for him.

Thank you, notes.

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#1874
Old 06-27-2014, 11:11 AM

Beheading oneself can have several different interpretations, which don't necessarily contradict one another on a case-by case.

As in the case of the melancholic personality, there's often a certain loathing of the fact that one is intelligent enough to realize that everyone is acting stupid around them, while at the same time being frustrated at knowing one is not the godling one was to oneself in childhood.

It's also often associated with the transcendence of the ego, which in the case of a great artist making a dramatic moment of it in his art shows even a transcendence of the false humility which could keep one from realizing or admitting that it is, in fact rather spiffy to get over oneself in that way and it's okay to feel it's worth commemorating. Some might consider representing such a thing in art to be vanity, but then artists are notorious for being misunderstood.

There's also the possibility of a secret fear of impotence either literally or figuratively, or of a fear of not being able to reach the heights one has imagined previously, if we view the truncation of the human form in the manner of decapitation as an interruption of the upward movement of growth, of life and personal evolution.

It can even represent a feeling of helplessness, like having this fantastic thing called a brain and yet being frustrated at the inability to use it to its full potential in affecting real and positive change. In a very childlike, right-brain sort of way, it could cause one to wish they could simply cut off their own head and be done with it all, and artists tend to represent in their art the very subconscious urges of many people.

It's difficult to interpret any artist's work even when you know it's symbolic, because quite often the symbols have totally different meanings for the artist and the viewer of their art. They might still mean all the other things, but the meaning relative to the artist is not always as cut-and-dried as one might hope.

But on the bright side, if I didn't have new thoughts and feelings and interpretations each time I viewed a piece of art, it would just mean I hadn't grown any since the last time I saw it...

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#1875
Old 06-29-2014, 10:47 PM

I'm so happy to see this thread alive and well. So well

Sorry I haven't been talking. I've been getting ready for my trip to London. I leave on Tuesday, eeeee.

 



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