I'm sorry, I didn't mean to suggest your poetry was awful...in fact, I said that just about the title. I don't help people who I think have potential as poets. I have a degree in poetry and working on my MFA in poetry (not to blow myself, but so you know where I come from), and believe me my poetry gets COMPLETELY destroyed on a daily basis...you got to have guts to put yourself out there. I only give honest advice, and perhaps not all of my critique was useful, but I do hope you consider trying new things...I'm not trying to change anyone and PLEASE, PLEAAAASE continue to write about love! I never said not to...just to try to think of new ways to say things.
Anyway, I'm sorry if I seem a little harsh, but I'm not going to say things like "I like this poem. I think it has potential," and then not say HOW you can reach that potential. To me that's like a pointy stick in the eye. I really resent the people who thought my poetry was "wonderful!!!" in high school, knowing what I know now.
Your style, if I can be a little more blunt, is not really a style. I am so, so sorry, but anyone could have written it. That's not necessarily bad...because that means that EVERYONE gets the emotions you're dishing out, but still, you want readers to say "wow..." and not forget the words you left with them.
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"This isn't a place to completely rip someone's work you know...You don't just go and say that somebody's piece is awful. You complain about her poems having repetitive language. did you ever consider the fact that might be her STYLE of poetry?...
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I'm sorry, but you really need to just relax a bit. I NEVER say poems are awful. I said the TITLE of one of her pieces was awful, and then explained WHY I thought that way and gave ADVICE to steer in a more original direction. Repetition is a device, not a style of poetry. But I agree--this could be her style, in other respects. I respect that, and so I humbly give my opinion as a fellow writer, which she can accept or deny--that's what mature writers do, they don't say "oooh that was sooo cool! You're such a great writer!!!!" pats-on-the-back crits never do anyone any good. It's a boost of self-esteem at a terrible, terrible price. I've been there, I've felt that. I didn't realize I was being unnecessarily blunt, perhaps some padding was needed.
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I think of poetry like pieces of visual art...there isn't one right way to go about it, and though there may be some aspects of a piece that someone may not think are really that good doesn't make the piece a terrible piece. You pretty much tore her pieces to shreds and called them awful. Do you really think that's a fair thing to do? Just because there are parts of her poems you didn't like doesn't mean her poems are awful.
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Again, just giving my opinion. I didn't "tear her to pieces"--I said I actually liked and admired parts of her work. How is that mean? Am I really a big bully for giving my educated opinion that could actually help her? Again, I called a
couple words awful, NOT the entire collective of work, which I think has amazing potential. It is really petty and silly to twist someone's words.
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As I said, I know you were trying to give constructive criticism on her pieces, but with constructive criticism you don't tear someone's poetry apart and say that you think it's awful. With constructive criticism, you don't just talk about what you thought was bad and call a piece of poetry terrible. When people make comments like what you just made, people are less likely to post their stuff on sites like this so other people can see them. I know I'd be pretty upset at your critique if these were my poems and you made this comment about them.
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....Again, I don't think it's awful...jeez, you'd think I'd said that "awful" word a billion times. I know what constructive crit is, I've been in workshops for five years. I'm sad you'd think that way about my critiques...someone just made a comment on my mene page saying how helpful my crit was...but that one was five times longer, so perhaps I should have written much more. It's hard to crit several poems, usually I spend about three hours to one poem from a poet on Mene, when I'm reading them. I consider that dedication to my peers. I try to help out as much as I can, and even steer them in the direction of the writing career, if they want one. I will respect your wishes though and never comment on any of your poetry--no animosity, but I'll respect your space. :)
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"I do admit 'What Is Love' probably wasn't the best choice, though it makes sense why you chose it. But I only say that because when I read the title, my mind finished with "Baby Don't Hurt Me", which, I'm ashamed to say, overshadowed the depth of the poem.
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@ Saerun -
this is why I didn't want you to use that poem. I just see two dudes going bobbing in a car to "What is Love?" I should have mentioned that, however....I think my problem was, I was not very in-depth as I usually am. I usually rewrite a whole poem as an example on how to edit the others. I'm sorry if I "bashed" you for a poem title, I did not mean to be, I was trying to be honest and getting to the point, but I should have been more tactful--I should know (we all should, shouldn't we?) that poems are precious things to those who write them. Anyway, I believe titles to be INCREDIBLY important. Its your readers first impression of a poem, and is not something to be tacked on. It sometimes can take days, months or years to find a suitable title!
Anyway, I provided a sample edit, and I also have a couple more in-depth analytical statements about my favorite poem later (I hope this proves to be more helpful--sorry about the shortness before--I really think you have great potential or believe me I wouldn't have written anything at all).
Edit of "What is Love"
RETITLED: "The Question, The Answer"
It is
seeing the face
through misted glass
and your inside seize
vice-like in your chest.
It is
the ocean resting her cool
hands on your face,
searing and blistering
all day, to no relief.
It is
water to the arid land
at the center of the soul;
it is
the window to the sun
when all the word's doors
lock you out in the dark.
It is
a discarded can
washed ashore,
minnows dashing
to and from its shade.
It is
the nameless named,
the unknown known,
the hidden talisman
in the unwalked dirt path
ahead of us.
***(pardon if I do not quote the revision as significant changes have been made from the original)***
This is ONLY A TEMPLATE of an IDEA that you DO NOT NEED to follow. I kept your form, which does have that really interesting repeating "It is" which comes across as a really strong sentiment--a statement of being. In the end, I see love as something in itself--an answer to the question of itself. "What is love?" -- "It is." Something mistifying that cannot even simply be said--so I removed the word "love" altogether. I would like your readers to FEEL the word love. You know as well as I that Brit Spears uses "love" in every one of her songs (or whoev is popular in pop these days) and every celebrity that has had seven marriages probably told each and every one of their lovers that word. I want you to really think about the word--what images do you see? Are they only of romantic love? I saw a vision of a disgusting can that fell out of a landfill--but even in that reckless abandon of humanity, animals find love for that shed of human gluttony--it is an odd sort of love, a kind that breeds life in the darkness, a kind that feeds off cruelty, but it is still an image of love. There are millions of them. Like...take a moment out of time with your lover. When have you felt most loved? Was it when he said he loved you? Maybe your heart raced, but wasn't it instead that you loved the infliction in his voice, the trembling lip as he formed the words, the unsteady rhythm of his heart? And then take that one step farther--how would you describe that moment? I've learned over the years that a metaphor--an image--is worth tons more than an adjective or an abstraction. "Love," "beauty," "heart," "enduring," "sweetness," "purity," "loneliness" don't mean very much, because they've been used so often that their power has been stripped...especially if you REPEAT it so often. Repetition is GREAT to DRIVE A POINT HOME, but not when you *really* want to make an impact. You want to reveal it at just the right time--make it a surprise to the reader. Anyway, what about instead of saying "heart racing" (which is cliche), why not "his heart washing into mine like waves upon an empty beach / the only matter in existence / the creation of the world, the universe." Now THAT would be true love, huh?
Sorry to put it so bluntly before, but I really, really want you to get down to the essentials, find out what truly is important in this human existence, in the human experience--and write it! :)
I chose "The Question, The Answer" as a fitting title (just a suggestion now), because, in my opinion, "what is love?" (aside from "what is the meaning of life?") really is THE question, huh? And in this poem, it's not about the question, but you're providing the ANSWER. Everyone already knows the question! ;)
A little more about "And So..." First off, I love the title. It seems like the reader, myself, just got dropped in the middle of a story--I kind of like that. Makes me take a breath, prepare myself.
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And so...
And so she stands
Last of her kind
In a bitter ice land
Where nothing can exist
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This seems like an exciting story, but for me, so full of questions! You may or may not choose to delve into them--why the last of her kind? It's a very interesting and curious thought. Human loneliness is quite isolating and devastating. But I am dying to know WHY and HOW she came to be like this...it's very intriguing.
"Bitter ice land" kind of already insinuates non-existence, especially since you said "last of her kind." So already there's no humanity, and the emotional barren atmosphere created by those three words leave no doubt that there is nothing here but loneliness, making the last line unneeded.
"Bitter ice land," your common repeating line, doesn't do much for the seasoned reader. It sounds cool, it is something you'll hear in a pop song. But I want more from you--I know you're capable. Again, ask yourself what is it about that setting that is so devastatingly isolating? Struggle with yourself--poetry is all about struggle--find those words. "Bitter ice land" can have different connotations, surprisingly enough, to different people. I think of ice skating and Iceland, the country. I remember a certain time of my life--a couple years ago, my 19th birthday--when I tried to kill myself by sitting out in the Vermont snow for hours. It was melodramatic and it didn't work, and I gave up and felt like an idiot. I am sharing this because I feel that the melodramatic tone of the peice might weigh down its true potential to reach the readers. I like it because I can relate, I see that heartache, that "nothing will ever be the same, I'm lost to everything in this bitter ice land," but we must try to get beyond the hysterics and self-pity to find the CORE of the poem.
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And so she walks
This snow white queen
In a bitter ice land
Where she reigns alone
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"Snow white" also has a few connotations, intentional or not. But, I'm not averse to the idea of the snow white queen. I would love to describe her features. The 3rd-person perspective seems so limited. 1st person with a little emotion--what's going on inside the queen's head (is she frightened? is she accepting? Does her countenance match her true feelings inside, or is she putting on a brave face, reigning alone?)--would be pretty cool, but you can make either work. 2nd person would also be exciting--make the READER be the queen "And so you walk /
a snow white queen / in a bitter ice land / where you reign alone", etc.
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And so she stares
Up at the full moon
In a bitter ice land
Where there is no sun
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What's the importance of a full moon? Mystical energies? Dark beauty? What about a waning mood? (I think it's 'waning'...when the moon looks occluded, like its becoming less?) I like the idea of everything slipping away and becoming non-existent in this world, even the predictable moon, but you can play with that idea. I would nix the "bitter ice land"--keep the same idea, but say it differently. Believe it or not, repeating IDEAS are also repetition--but it makes the poem a bit more interesting to read, instead of reading the same line over, and over, and over, and over and...well, you get it.
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And so she finds
A wanderer
In a bitter ice land
Where there should be no life
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Great story! I like this introduction! I would like to know more about the wanderer. Is it a he? Is it herself, a reflection? Is it searching for her, or trying to flee? Is it mad or overjoyed? Is it handsome or hideous? So many questions!
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And so she watches
As the sword falls
In a bitter ice land
Where her reign is over
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Whose sword? Hers? The Wanderer's? The wanderer murders her?!? This is the part I didn't get, would love to get some more explanation on. It happens too quick. WHY is her reign over? What the heck happens? It seems a cheap explanation and confusing to introduce a wanderer, a sword falling, and death. Even for a poem, that's a fast move. Take it a bit more delicately.
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And so she falls
This queen in white
In a bitter ice land
red falls on white.
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I really hate "queen in white...red falls on white"... seems an overuse of the word and, like I explained before, just becomes meaningless. What else can be white? What else can look like the queen on the ground, bleeding and broken? What about "And so she falls / the slain, snowy mink, / in a clear, blinding world / red falls on white." I really love "red falls on white." It's so simple, but very clear, and that's the first time the "red" is mentioned, which is surprising and beautiful. It also, for some reason, reminds me of a chess game and a defeated queen--not sure if you want to use any chess imagery for the wanderer--an errant knight???
I use "clear, blinding world" as an easy replacement for "bitter ice land" because it still heavily relies on adjectives, but it's the easiest transition to make. Think of what in an empty world would be the scariest, or most depressing, etc. I think of some place scorchingly bright, no room to hide the mistakes of the past, left with only yourself and your consciousness...depressing AND scary.
So, hopefully that was a bit more helpful. Sorry I didn't do that from the beginning, I forgot I can't do short, to-the-point critiques on mene, it just wouldn't be fair to the writers who put themselves out there. Hopefully this gives a better sense of what the fricken eff I was even talking about.
And...seriously. I don't even waste time commenting on poetry I don't like, that has no potential...so please take it as an extreme compliment that I was so "harsh"--I only do that for colleagues, and we hardly know each other or our individual poetic sensibilities. I'm starting another semester at grad school and thought I'd help out someone on mene after writing critiques for my peers, who are all used to destroying and resurrecting poems...so please don't hate me! haha. I do try my best!
Ps: You do have serious potential. I am in one of the best writing schools in the country, so you can actually believe that. You're 21...take a few writing courses at your enrolled or local college. It will make a world of difference and a creative person like you will love it!
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*EDIT*
hmmm...seems I did say that last poem was awful. Haha. Many, many pardons. I must have been a bit moody, a little too much to-the-point. But my commentary still stands. My adjective should have been a bit more thoughtful, however.