Basically, Christianity and Judaisim just appropriated everything other religions had so people wouldn't feel so upset when they were told to switch. So things like succubus and stuff were from other, older ideas likely. I believe the myth of the succubus also come from sleep paralysis, where sometimes you'll wak up and be unable to move, feeling as if you have a large weight on your chest.
Sleep paralysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Judaism borrows strongly from the myths of ancient Sumeria. Much of the early action of the Torah is borrowed from it, with monotheistic twist. And even that they didn't get sorted out for a while

What is now called Judaism is really old. Comes from before anyone even had an alphabet to write it down. The original has similarities to certain sects of paganism from Celtic regions. One main deity called "The father" or "all father" and lesser spirits, both good and evil, who like to mess with humans. Always a promise of a coming savior, or king, who would reunite humanity with "the all father."

At the same time as far as we know there were the older pantheistic religions, in Egypt, and the fertile crescent. Again, no written records from before them, so saying who was first is not really possible.

lol. yeah after deciding that Christianity wasn't for me, that is probably the most amusing commandment. Although understandable it is interesting to see all of the things Christianity and Judaism have taken from other religions. Christmas is probably the most well know example. There are others that are at the core of Christianity which if you look at a whole bunch of older/pagan religions are in there too.

Well, of course religious traditions have been around since time immemorial. But they all seem to have a common theme up until about the time we are able to suss out a sturdier record of the activities of our ancestors, for the sake of simplicity, let's peg that around 5,000 BCE. When things start to differentiate, we have tangible evidence, in the form of art (nothing new there), which speaks volumes, even if a textual record might tell us more.

I would say just about every major non-nationalistic holiday, as well as birth ceremonies, wedding ceremonies, and funeral ceremonies have some very strong roots in pagan ritual.

A lot of things were done in oral tradition, but they were written down. Example:




Also, I believe Geometry predates Christianity.

A lot of things predate Christianity. Judaism is the old one. Christianity comes out of the fulfillment of a prophecy in the Jewish scriptures.

Saying things come before Christianity isn't saying much.

But of course, Judaism and Christianity are inexorably linked. One can't consider the latter without taking into account the former. And a good deal of the conversation has been directed to Judaism only. I don't think any points made here have been nullified.

I'm just saying that art qualifies as a written language. You were saying that because there was no written language predating Jewish text, then it was hard to say which came first as far as tradition and mythology goes, but language is a completely fluid thing. Art, in this instance, I believe is an indicator of culture.

-le shrug-

I don't really recall saying anything about Christianity other than that the myth of the succubus was attributed to it after the fact, rather than being a specific Christian belief.

I'm very confused about the confusion here.

Actually a lot of language predates the Jewish text. And not just in general, specifically religious texts as well. In fact, the first recorded instance of monotheism occurs in Egypt, under the rule of Amenhotep VI, better known as Akhenaten.

Let's not discount the Code of Hammurabi: the first document of written law, instating that ignorance of the law was no excuse because it was publicly displayed.

Yes, another one of the great hits of early writing!

High-five, Biggles! We know our pre-Abrahamic stuff! -poised for a FANCY high-five-

Alright *Deep breath*

Art is not a language it's pop culture. The scenes on Greek vases do not depict actual fighting techniques. We know this from actual written histories. People did not fight wars naked, nor did they use spears overhand.

Another thing is that most of the ancient peoples, especially the Hebrew, of which I'm speaking, were nomadic. They didn't do art for the most part. Ever hard of Huns, or Mongols doing art, while they were wandering around and living in yurts? No. Because they didn't. The Hebrew were a nomadic warrior tribe. They didn't produce much art.

And in actuality the Egyptians, who a lot of people credit with influencing Christianity, and Judaism, were probably influenced themselves. They have histories, (which predate Akhenaton by a good bit) telling of two warrior tribes, known as the Hyksos, and the Hibaru (Hebrew) who took over Egypt. They worshiped one all powerful God. Built temples.

The only, and I mean only reason others had written records before anyone else, was because they had settled and built cities. Nomads don't bother with written records, because carrying stuff like that takes too much energy, and space.

-provides the fanciest high five she came manage-

.....

Art is not merely pop culture. It's always taken myriad forms, for myriad purposes. Some never meant to be geared/exposed towards people at all.

The Hyksos are part of the second intermediate period, which predates Ahkenaten, I'll give you that. The Hibaru are not a well established phenomenon. It should be noted that I am talking about concurrent textual records. And there, the Egyptians were first.

Okay, so perhaps not as language, but certainly a form of communication. Whether you understand the language or not, you have to admit that the Egyptians were trying to communicate to the masses.

The very first thing that I learned in art school is that art is not just pretty pictures. If a piece is not communicating to the reader, then it is seen as a failed piece.

The Huns and Mongols had functional art: things that they could keep in their tents or sew into their clothes. Of course, textile art is the least likely to survive the tests of time because they are organic and were worn.

Originally Posted by Hyena

Feyona: Ah. I knew what a succubus was, but I'm always curious to see what people refer to them as. For instance, I've heard several people refer to me as a muse, but I am neither intangible nor greek. xD

Though, I think that if he is a man who feeds upon sexual energies that makes him an 'incubus,' rather.

I do recall there being religions prior to Judaism, though. I believed that's what spawned the "I am a jealous God and thou shall not have any other gods before me."

Hyena is cute if she (he? these avitars are so feminie) thinks that Feyona's partner is a boy... XD Although you may be referring to the previous conversation.

Originally Posted by FeyonaSaibre

Hyena is cute if she (he? these avitars are so feminie) thinks that Feyona's partner is a boy... XD Although you may be referring to the previous conversation.

Oh.. haha! Sorry. For some reason I though you referred to your partner as a 'he' at one point. Sometimes its hard to keep track of everything in this thread. Entirely my bad. xD

However the book of the dead, from which we take our greatest knowledge of Egyptian religion, was written after.

Either way, all early religions influenced each other.

To be honest I find most early religions that we know of are Henotheistic, like Celtic paganism. One all powerful deity, and a bunch of weaker ones. Many of the pantheistic religions started out this way.

If you pull out all of the things that appear in the earliest religions, and put them together, you get one major deity, usually referred to as a father, and a bunch of less powerful spirits.

My Religion follows this pattern actually.

Originally Posted by Hyena

Oh.. haha! Sorry. For some reason I though you referred to your partner as a 'he' at one point. Sometimes its hard to keep track of everything in this thread. Entirely my bad. xD

Yeah, it's ok... I don't think I ever specified a gender. People generally assume the other one and I'm definately making my avitar name and looks feminine... ALSO...

I'm an equal opportunity girlfriend... I swing all ways... it's the fun of being Pan-sexual.

Communication, yes. But 'pop culture' suggest that it's reduced to on some level to "bare bones" of eloquence, in order to be fully consumed by the masses. And that's what I take issue with.

It wasn't merely religion I was talking about. The events of Akhenaten's reign had far reaching effects, and was recorded in all literate sections of society.

They were mostly wiped from history. Everyone hated him.

Haha, the powerful priests of Amun certainly did. But enough records survive to get a picture.

I don't believe that's entirely true about one major god. What about Native Americans? And far-eastern religions (pre-buddhist)? They have similar ideas that each spirit that they evoke has a special purpose in a person's journey. Equally, I believe that sub-saharan African mythologies certainly indicate a considerable amount of spiritual egalitarianism.

Feyona: I know how it is. Oh, also. My avatar is male, but I am female. People seem to take me more seriously when they believe that I have a penis. -le shrug- ^^

Hyena: I'd take you serious either way if you were trying to be... but I'd probably try getting you to laugh if you stayed that way for too long. It's my defense mechanism against boredom and seriousness... XD