Alright, Here's the question. Can one actually really be spiritual but not religious?

Religion is defined as:

re·li·gion
   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Therefore any beliefs pertaining to the state of the universe in a spiritual manner would count. no?

A friend of mine just yelled at me for calling shamanism religion.

. . .

sha·man·ism
   [shah-muh-niz-uhm, shey-, sham-uh-] Show IPA
noun
1.
the animistic religion of northern Asia, embracing a belief in powerful spirits that can be influenced only by shamans.
2.
any similar religion.

. . . So. . . Yeah.

Is there technically a spiritual system that is not Religion?

Religion is more of a set of rules, while spiritualism is more based on feelings, with nothing you particularly have to obey, so I wouldn't actually define Shamanism as a religion based on that definition.

So yes, I do believe that there can be spiritual systems without religion.

Of course. Shamanism isn't really religious. I came from the Asian jungles where shamans could do magic still. Though everyone was Buddhist and prescribed to Buddhist teachings, they had belief and practice as well as a close affinity with spiritual things but no one would say it's their religion.

Shamanism is a cultural practice more so than a spiritual or religious practice.

However it is possible for someone to be just spiritual instead of religious if they don't adhere to a specific religious practice or religious rules. When you start following a religion's rules it becomes more of a religious practice than a spiritual one.

I'm spiritual and not religious. I also do not believe in a "god" or "gods". I have faith just no religion.

But religion is not about rules. That's dogma. Religion is whatever you believe about the universe.

Religion is how you show your belief, usually dictated by a set of rules. At least, that's how I've always defined it.

I put a definition at the top. It has nothing to do with rules. It is a set of beliefs. If your beliefs include rules, then the rules are a part of the religion, but religion is not rules.

re·li·gion
   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Everything I bolded is to do with the rules of religion, but like I said, that's just how I define it, I never claimed to be completely right.

Originally Posted by Glass

I put a definition at the top. It has nothing to do with rules. It is a set of beliefs. If your beliefs include rules, then the rules are a part of the religion, but religion is not rules.

A set of beliefs normally includes laws of what you should do or shouldn't do. The Jews have the 162 mitzvots. Wiccans have the 161 laws called the Ardanes. Muslims have the Quran. Christians have the law of Agape. Hindus have the Vedas. Buddhists have Sidharta Guatama's teachings. Shintoists have the Kojiki and the Nihongo.

Religion is often about rules whether you like it or not.

I don't believe in any sort of religion and most people who claim to be spiritual don't believe in crap but they're too afraid to completely give up on the idea that they have a divine purpose or that there's nothing after death.
I only believe in the power of the almighty dollar. }<

@RavynneSidhe: Yeah, actually Christianity is not about rules really, since there is only one. The specific point is made that the law only condemns, and that love and grace are what saves you.

@Fluffy: the dollar is down, and therefore not almighty. Also the dollar and most currencies are worthless.

Originally Posted by Glass

@RavynneSidhe: Yeah, actually Christianity is not about rules really, since there is only one. The specific point is made that the law only condemns, and that love and grace are what saves you.

@Fluffy: the dollar is down, and therefore not almighty. Also the dollar and most currencies are worthless.

Except the law of Grace is the Law of Agape :s Love God, Love your neighbor. If you can't follow those two commandments (yes Christ does command Christians to do both several times in the Bible. Matthew, Acts, Galatians). If you are commanded to do something then that makes it a law :s

So yes Christianity is about following the laws of Christ, that is what makes it Christ-like :s

It's never called a law. Christ was asked, how one could be right with God, and he answered, love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. That's not a law. That's not a rule. That's not a command. That is an answer to a question.

If you ask your professor how to pass a course, and they say study, and do your homework, are they commanding you? no. They are telling you what is necessary.

Are you asking a question without wanting the answer to it? Because that's just egocentric circle-jerking. Everyone here has been quite specific: religion involves a set of rules. If that statement is irking you, you will never find a satisfying answer.

A spiritual belief can be seperated from religion in one simple way: if it doesn't involve the praising of a deity, it's not a religion. Your definition at the top, the one you're going by is cute, but flawed. A certain way of looking at the universe is through the glass of science, and science is not a religion, although many people prefer to see the universe purely through scientific eyes, and therefore, it is a view agreed by many people. Your definition implies science as a religion. Therefore, it is wrong.

Carzeebear is actually right. Religion does involve rules. It has to. There is no religion without rules or set practices, therefore religion involves rules. A spiritual belief, however, does not. It is a lot more personal than religion, as any religion is of close resemblance to a cult.

Originally Posted by Glass

@Fluffy: the dollar is down, and therefore not almighty. Also the dollar and most currencies are worthless.

I actually meant currency in general, not just the dollar. And if the dollar isn't almighty, why do I feel so happy and complete when I have lots of them?
?_____? Riddle me that, mister. :love:

@Neuza: Do please try to be less rude. I've done nothing to insult you.

The definition I put, is from the Merriam Webster dictionary. It isn't wrong. And there are religions without any deities, so Really, you don't need one to have a religion.

Calling religions in general "cults" is an attempt at an insult, which doesn't bother me. A cult is just a smaller group with similar beliefs, and most of them are harmless. Some freaky ones make the others look bad, but I know people who are members of what you might call a cult. They are mostly nice people.

@Fluffy: You feel complete when you have money, because it gives you a sense of power and control, which brings a feeling of safety. Safety is one of the basic psychological needs of human beings, and therefore, money is associated with a need, and when you have it, that need is filled.

Actually calling religions as cults isn't an insult according to the Oxford English Dictionary which is an academic source used by academics, scholars, students etc. Religion according to their definition is a cult. Period. You can't argue with academics.

Also it is called the Law of Agape by several scholars. Hell, Jesus says in the places that I mentioned that Love God is the greastest commandment. The second greatest commandment is love your neighbor. The word commandment as we understand in the OT refers to laws. These are laws that were given to use through Moses by God. In a similar sense these are laws given to us by Jesus who is the son of God, YHVH. We are supposed to follow these laws.

When a professor or a teacher tells his or her students to study it's not because it's neccessary, but because it's a rule if you want to pass and succeed. Jesus isnt telling us because it's neccessary to love your neighbor but because this is his law, summerizing the 10 commandments. So if you go against his law, you go against God.

For future reference I'm an eclectic neo-pagan. The only laws and rules I am bound to are the ones I make for myself.

Another edit: The problem with Merriam Webster is that its definitions are what are deemed popular by societies standards. I would recommend you get the Oxford English Dictionary as it is an academic source and much more accurate.

English being a living language, Accuracy is virtually impossible, and futile, and any language is in fact ruled by what society deems correct. Look at German. Spelling, and meanings of some words have been altered in recent years to make things simpler.

Calling a Religion a "cult" is generally considered an insult, regardless of what the academics in Britain have decided.

And Neopaganism does have rules. Or rather, rule. It is essentially, do no harm. I have more Pagan friends than anything else. I find them interesting. Do please pm me if you wish to talk about your beliefs.

I talked about this from a Ph.D student in philosophy and this is what I gathered. A religion generally requires acts of worship, aspects that will affect the individual's life, often a holy book (which is why I've come across arguments regarding Shintoism), a school of teaching, and places of worship.

Originally Posted by Glass

English being a living language, Accuracy is virtually impossible, and futile, and any language is in fact ruled by what society deems correct. Look at German. Spelling, and meanings of some words have been altered in recent years to make things simpler.

Calling a Religion a "cult" is generally considered an insult, regardless of what the academics in Britain have decided.

And Neopaganism does have rules. Or rather, rule. It is essentially, do no harm. I have more Pagan friends than anything else. I find them interesting. Do please pm me if you wish to talk about your beliefs.

Actually it's not futile. Accuracy is important regardless of what you're doing. If your practice is not accurate it cannot work.

Calling a religion is not an insult. Religion in a way functions in the same way as a cult does and vice versa. Even Gerald Gardner called his religion of Wicca, a witch-cult.

Neo-Paganism has no rule of do no harm. A little history on what's know as the Wiccan Rede: It was written in the 1970's by Doreen Valiente, who was Gardner's High Priestess in Wicca before she broke away, and it was published in Green Egg magazine. Because of this, it was never put into Wicca as a law. In fact the whole poem is written in advice. The word rede, actually means advice. So really Pagans can harm if they so choose, or not harm if they so choose. In fact there are many Pagans whose deities prefer them to harm especially the War deities :s

Just because you have friends who are Pagan does not mean that you know what Neo-Paganism is nor that they know everything that Neo-Paganism is. Many of them were fed inaccuate stories and what not by authors looking to make a quick buck like Silver Ravenwolf. It's best if you did your own research and looked at some sources with your own discernment. :s

Originally Posted by Glass

@Neuza: Do please try to be less rude. I've done nothing to insult you.

Rudeness is often required as a method of persuasion. I am trying to persuade you to stop being a dick to people who are right. Watch me be even ruder to you as I reply to the rest of your posts and show you, again, that you are wrong, and that you also may have a reading impairment. On the other hand, try not to use ad hominem as a way to invalidate my arguments. Not everyone is made of rainbows and strawberry poops.

Originally Posted by Glass

The definition I put, is from the Merriam Webster dictionary. It isn't wrong. And there are religions without any deities, so Really, you don't need one to have a religion.

Hold your thought.

Originally Posted by Glass

English being a living language, Accuracy is virtually impossible, and futile, and any language is in fact ruled by what society deems correct. Look at German. Spelling, and meanings of some words have been altered in recent years to make things simpler.

Oopsie daisies. Trying to prove the other side of the debate correct. Success.

Originally Posted by Glass

Calling religions in general "cults" is an attempt at an insult, which doesn't bother me. A cult is just a smaller group with similar beliefs, and most of them are harmless. Some freaky ones make the others look bad, but I know people who are members of what you might call a cult. They are mostly nice people.

Watch me care enough to quote myself.

It is a lot more personal than religion, as any religion is of close resemblance to a cult.

Please feel free to reread my post, I haven't edit it. So, again, tone down the ad hominem there, and read what people are writing without finding subliminar messages that are not even there.

Originally Posted by Glass

@Fluffy: You feel complete when you have money, because it gives you a sense of power and control, which brings a feeling of safety. Safety is one of the basic psychological needs of human beings, and therefore, money is associated with a need, and when you have it, that need is filled.

Replace the word safety with SHOPPIN SPREEEEEEEEEEEZ and just maybe, you might be onto something there. :insane:

Spirituality is personal. Religion is organizational (remember some religions don't necessarily have a deity e.g. Scientology). Definitions differ so I would check out a basic sociology text book that will offer more in depth descriptions. Also it would be worth checking out theories on desecularization and the rise of New Age movements because they touch upon differences between the religious and spiritual. Hope that helps:)

Una: Thank you. You were very helpful.

RavynneSidhe: Neo paganism is a religion, similar to Wicca. The Deities therein are a trinity. The mother, maiden, and crone. Witchcraft is common among neopagans, as well as other pagan practices. There is a general understanding among most pagan religions, including neopagans that doing harm, or especially using magic for harmful or selfish purposes will get you trouble, especially when the target doesn't deserve what they're getting.

I have done my research. A couple of my friends are neopagan, and I've read my share of articles, and books, as well as talking to a lot of people. A few of my other friends are frei, and I know a couple of Welsh eclectics, but they're dicks to me all the time. I doubt that is because of their religion, but still the only Welsh eclectics I know are dicks. I find this irritating.

I only know one person who worships a war deity, and said deity does not wish him to just do harm, so much as fight constantly. He's not allowed to use magic for it either, as it's considered dishonorable.