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Ling
The Daydreamer
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03-26-2014, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet
It's quite alright Ling... owo just don't expect quick replies
Wow... that must be really hard... but you try though, right? That's awesome.
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Like I said, the lack of a shared spoken language that we were both fluent/competent in did make chatting with this relative challenging...I personally wouldn't use the word 'hard' to describe the situation...because we both wanted to get to know each other, you know, being relatives and all...
I actually think I got to know this relative quite well, given the language barrier... I gained an understanding of their personality and sense of humour, because we did get to spend time together. Of course, having other relatives present to interpret/translate was very useful in terms of better understanding when communicating. If the language barrier was able to be reduced I believe we could've gotten along and had all sorts of interesting conversations...because in many ways we already did despite the language barrier.
---------- Post added 03-26-2014 at 02:34 AM ----------
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Originally Posted by Elmira Swift
Ling ~ I have to say age has given me some perspective concerning relationships and how other people perceive me. I used to worry about whether people liked me or if I offended them somehow. This worry influenced my decisions about who was in my life, what I wore, and so forth. The worst offenders for me were family. Not that they are bad people, just they tend to analyze my behavior from the past and assume that is how I am now. I'm not 14yo - I'm 48  with two kids, two grad degrees, cool partner/husband, and a life. Even survived the death of a spouse without completely losing my mind and without a whole lot of support from people. Not bitter, just better equipped to say "no" more frequently to meddling.
Over the years, I had major boundary issues with people who I allowed to interfere with my time and my relationships with members of my household. I have since stopped caring what other people think. I do not worry about whether people think I'm weird/eccentric. Not really sure if I can pinpoint how/when that happened, but it took time. I began to believe I'm fantastic and if people were trying to encroach on my life it was because I AM fantastic enough to warrant their attention.
My hope is it does not take you long to figure out you are fantastic and not weird. Normal is over-rated and I'd like to see what exactly normal is. Thus far, I'm not sold on what's presented in social media.
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Thank you for sharing your experiences Elmira Swift
It sounds like you have a wealth of life experience and probably have encountered many relationship/social situations that I have yet to come across in my own life. It is also apparent that these situations have challenged you at times because of your different way of thinking related to being on the autism spectrum.
It is great that you have managed to overcome the social issues and accept that you are fantastic just the way you are...and I think you will be a great role model for your daughter.
There are more important things in life than worrying about what others think of you.
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The grief and loss of a close loved one, through death is actually one situation I've yet to deal with...but such is life that it will happen sooner or later.
The only funeral I've ever attended was that of someone who I, as a student on placement in an aged care organisation, had gotten to know only in the few months before she passed away, in a work context. Our relationship was client/worker one, essentially, but the task I was given in relation to her was to interview, record and write a life story based on what she told me. She was to be given the final draft in a nicely bound up booklet to keep.
She was cool.
I got a lot out of the interview sessions, personally, as well as for the task. I thought her story, her experiences and her opinions of the circumstances she lived through as a young girl, young woman, mother and older woman were fascinating and very inspiring.
She'd often comment about how ridiculous some of the social standards from her days as a young mother were...because it was expected that married women were to stay at home, look after the 5-7 children and manage the household while her husband would be the breadwinner and be the only provider of income for the family.
It wasn't the fact that she was expected to stop working in a paid job as soon as she was married that was really ridiculous in her opinion, because she was responsible for the household tasks and raising her children which kept her busy.
However, for some reason it was also an expectation in the community she lived in, for married women to host formal 'teas or parties' in the home occasionally, because all the other married women in the same strata (or class) were doing the same thing. They'd dress up in fancy dresses with glove and hats...she told me she did or at least tried to rebel against this and other ridiculous standards.
My first thought after hearing about her rebellious nature was, "You go girl!"
I think I ended up just laughing politely, because she was chuckling too as she told me all that.
Her death was very sudden and unexpected. The last time I saw her was the second to last session we'd arranged.
I had given her the first draft of the story I'd compiled to read through and correct any details and I also wanted to know what she thought of what I'd written before I finalised it.
Despite not knowing her for long at all, I'd gotten to know a lot about her and was shocked and saddened when I was informed of her passing. Partly because she never got to read the finalised story, because I'm sure she would've liked to.
Her children invited me to her funeral. It was the first time I'd met any of her family, and the only person I'd met prior to the funeral was a staff member from the aged care organisation. It was an interesting experience for me because it was the first and so far only funeral I've attended.
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Elmira Swift
Curator of Alluvium
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03-26-2014, 08:10 PM
Ling, I find it fascinating how you were able to record some of this lady's story. I think too often that information is lost because people do not write diaries or journals any longer. As an aside, I'm a trained historian/archivist/librarian I can say it's really difficult to sort out what really happened during certain periods of time because there isn't a wealth of first-hand written accounts. I'm sure her family appreciated your friendship with her. I recall how grateful our family was to the caregivers of my grandparents and they were very close to them.
Age does grant one a measure of perspective - that could explain why my attitude shifted. 30 years ago boundaries were a huge problem. I'm nearly 50 now (y'all don't faint!) and recovered from my mid-life crisis/crises  - I'll spare everyone the details. Some things cannot be unseen. I'll leave it at that.
Also appreciate your perspective about overcoming language barriers! Do you still communicate with your relative?
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-27-2014, 05:12 AM
I totally can relate to having something shake who you thought you were, and make you change your attitude completely. I may be younger than you (I'm 28), I've definitely had my world shaken to the point where it just about shattered - almost completely - and I'm working on getting myself back up and going, doing a pretty good job... at times - to just learn to live without him.
I've been working on getting stories from people that they have with him - to try to keep his memory alive as best I can. :) It is hard, but I've got a substantial bunch of stories. :)
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Elmira Swift
Curator of Alluvium
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03-27-2014, 10:35 PM
I think age is less relevant than experiencing life with the understanding of how things can/may alter your perspective. What I believed to be my reality at the age of 25 is vastly different than how I perceive reality now at 48. Still blows my mind I'm *this* close to 50 and still amazed by the things I'm able to learn and experience.
Loss is just one aspect and it will vary every time you experience it. Some will hit harder than others. If advice is wanted, I would add enjoy the time you have with those you encounter. Even obliquely.
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-28-2014, 03:54 PM
If I could, I would... I would do anything to have just one more day with him. To apologize to him how I spoke to him the last time I spoke to him... But sadly, he will never come back. And I have to learn to live without my other half, not by choice... I would never choose this, or wish it upon anyone.
But I do love every moment spent with my family, my husband and daughter. And I do cherish them, dearly! 
I just wish that he was around to get to meet his niece (soon to be two nieces), but he's not, sadly.
Last edited by LiviInLove; 03-28-2014 at 03:58 PM..
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Ling
The Daydreamer
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03-28-2014, 09:36 PM
Of course I communicate with the relative...and the rest of the family too...those of us who are a bit more tech savvy are all using a Chinese app called WeChat...it is like the Japanese app LINE only it is from China...but there is an English version so mine is in English.
We are all included in a chat group that someone started...and we just post random every day stuff in that chat room...often the relatives in Macau are telling the other in Macau about somewhere where there is free food...or something like that...it is amusing though and we just laugh and comment about things that are happening. There are a lot of us in there...but we are all family related in one way or other...so lately they've been congratulating me on my graduation but also joked about cutting the ribbon for the grand opening of our new toilet that we had installed recently...
And the older relatives in Germany while trying to figure out the voice msg aspect ended up accidentally posting a whole lot of random comments while they were figuring it out...it was the funniest thing that my Aunt in Macau couldn't help but LOL at...so yes...technology and internet have been a great way for us to keep in touch...it is actually one of the reasons I still have facebook...1/5 of my FB friends are family.
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Elmira Swift
Curator of Alluvium
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03-29-2014, 03:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiviInLove
If I could, I would... I would do anything to have just one more day with him. To apologize to him how I spoke to him the last time I spoke to him... But sadly, he will never come back. And I have to learn to live without my other half, not by choice... I would never choose this, or wish it upon anyone.
But I do love every moment spent with my family, my husband and daughter. And I do cherish them, dearly! 
I just wish that he was around to get to meet his niece (soon to be two nieces), but he's not, sadly.
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 I cannot imagine how hard your situation is. I can say after my first husband died I've rehashed a lot of if only scenarios. Some days I feel at peace about our last moments together, other times I don't. Not sure how to move past it.
Ling ~ I had no idea you could do that with different languages!! That is quite fascinating. Constantly amazes me how much the internet and tech have changed since I was a kid. Definitely a situation where a need was there and someone came up with a solution. And... a belated congratulations on your graduation!!
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-29-2014, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmira Swift
 I cannot imagine how hard your situation is. I can say after my first husband died I've rehashed a lot of if only scenarios. Some days I feel at peace about our last moments together, other times I don't. Not sure how to move past it.
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 I totally know about the 'only if' 'what if' scenarios, but they won't bring him back. No matter how many times I try to figure it out. For me, the one who I lost was my twin brother. I am the same way. There are days when I struggle like no other. My family is so supportive with helping me through those hard times. It is something that I am not sure I can ever really move past fully, not sure how time is supposed to heal this. It really is something that has to be taken one day at a time most days.
I just had my 7th birthday without him, which went by better than anticipated, but it's hitting me again that he's been gone now for 7 birthdays, and it just hit me hard the last few days since my birthday. :( Harder than I thought it would.
Last edited by LiviInLove; 03-29-2014 at 04:01 AM..
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Ling
The Daydreamer
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03-29-2014, 05:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmira Swift
 I cannot imagine how hard your situation is. I can say after my first husband died I've rehashed a lot of if only scenarios. Some days I feel at peace about our last moments together, other times I don't. Not sure how to move past it.
Ling ~ I had no idea you could do that with different languages!! That is quite fascinating. Constantly amazes me how much the internet and tech have changed since I was a kid. Definitely a situation where a need was there and someone came up with a solution. And... a belated congratulations on your graduation!!
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Um...WeChat is kind of equivalent to Facebook, but only for smartphones. It is a Chinese app where majority of the users are Chinese from China...because Facebook is banned in China, and it is an substitute.
What I mean by English version is that the most commonly used interface is the Chinese interface.
You know when you get something and it lists the optional languages...before proceeding to the next step so that everything following that is in the language you choose...we all choose English as English speakers...and so did I, for this app where the default language is Chinese...that's essentially what I mean by English version...
Once all the family members with smartphones downloaded this app and were made aware of each others usernames to add as friends...one family member created a group chat and added all the others and instead of leaving the chat session we just stayed...and it is a way for us all to maintain contact without having the costs of international phone calls....so yes.
I am not good at Chinese...
Despite having learnt Chinese throughout my life in Saturday Chinese School and home etc...I have limited reading ability...I have never been able to read an article in a Chinese newspaper because of lack of understanding and I suppose, lack of interest in trying to understand....it became a lower priority.
I got complacent as a uni student because I was focused on uni work...but I have decided to actively try to improve my Chinese all round...partially because I do have the opportunity to practise and with free to download Chinese-English apps...Pleco being my favourite so far...I can easily check what I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiviInLove
 I totally know about the 'only if' 'what if' scenarios, but they won't bring him back. No matter how many times I try to figure it out. For me, the one who I lost was my twin brother. I am the same way. There are days when I struggle like no other. My family is so supportive with helping me through those hard times. It is something that I am not sure I can ever really move past fully, not sure how time is supposed to heal this. It really is something that has to be taken one day at a time most days.
I just had my 7th birthday without him, which went by better than anticipated, but it's hitting me again that he's been gone now for 7 birthdays, and it just hit me hard the last few days since my birthday. :( Harder than I thought it would.
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The grief you feel after having lost a close loved one must be something that is hard to come to terms with...I think with sudden unexpected deaths the 'what ifs' and 'I wish I could've said goodbye I love you'...that type of thing would go through your mind...like it probably wouldn't be like it is and he may still be here today if that event didn't occur...
I think a way you can come to terms with it is to reflect on his life and your memories together...and yes, the time has been cut short, but, he lived, really lived.
And the two of you shared time together and experienced joy and had good times and were there to support each other through the tough times...
He would want you to continue living and living a full life appreciating all that you have...because yes....he is no longer here...but you are and you have your family and you have your memories of him to think of each birthday when you do think of him.
Last edited by Ling; 03-29-2014 at 05:26 AM..
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-29-2014, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ling
The grief you feel after having lost a close loved one must be something that is hard to come to terms with...I think with sudden unexpected deaths the 'what ifs' and 'I wish I could've said goodbye I love you'...that type of thing would go through your mind...like it probably wouldn't be like it is and he may still be here today if that event didn't occur...
I think a way you can come to terms with it is to reflect on his life and your memories together...and yes, the time has been cut short, but, he lived, really lived.
And the two of you shared time together and experienced joy and had good times and were there to support each other through the tough times...
He would want you to continue living and living a full life appreciating all that you have...because yes....he is no longer here...but you are and you have your family and you have your memories of him to think of each birthday when you do think of him.
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Honestly coming to terms with it - I have been trying to do that, and to reflect, and it doesn't really work in the ways that people say it will. :/... I'm just tired of people saying that time will heal it because honestly right now, I really don't feel like it will. I can move on, but it never will honestly heal it. :/ And you don't think I've not heard all of that before. I know all of that already....
Until you know exactly how it feels to be in my shoes, I really don't need to keep being told the same things over and over again by everyone, at least that's how it feels to me. :/
In a way being told this over and over again from everyone makes me feel even worse about how I feel because I KNOW that he would hate that I feel this way which just makes me feel even worse over all. :( I don't need to be reminded that I am a failure because of how I'm trying to cope with this - even though it's been over seven years. It's still rough and I struggle almost every day with it. More than I really let on. And being told that I should do something and knowing that yes it is what he would have wanted, and the fact that I can't just do that makes me feel like I am a horrible person because I can't do that. :(
Last edited by LiviInLove; 03-29-2014 at 06:32 AM..
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Ling
The Daydreamer
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03-29-2014, 06:45 AM
Well...I guess that is how I honestly feel about the situation...and I re-read what I wrote and realise that is does sound cliche and like you said, I don't know the circumstances in which your twin brother passed away....or anything like that..
I think I mentioned earlier that an older woman, who I had been introduced to as a service user of an aged care service provider I did my placement at passed away suddenly before our last scheduled meeting.
I did feel a sense of grief, despite only meeting her to interview her over a 3 month period about once a week. The time together was spent interviewing her and getting her to tell me her life story...so basically about what happened to her over her life...she was willing to tell me a lot...and I hardly ever needed to ask any questions.
I felt sad because I could tell we had a lot in common, and in any other circumstances we could've been great friends despite our clear cultural/age/generation gap. She would comment on the social norms, expectations, fashion trends that were accepted at the time...which she thought were 'ridiculous' even as a young woman. She was a person who worked with the circumstances she was in...and once opportunities were made available...due to changes in acceptable gender roles...she'd make the most of it. We also went to the same high school too, which was an interesting coincidence...
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-29-2014, 06:52 AM
I'm just so sick of people telling me "Olivia, this is how you are supposed to feel...." When they know nothing of how much I struggle daily, and how hard I do try to be normal but there are days when oh my goodness, it is so bloody hard. And having people tell me that I need to act differently makes me feel like an absolute complete failure.
Anyone's passing is sad, but everyone DEALS with grief differently. Don't expect it just because you deal with it one way that someone who lost someone else who they knew will deal with it the same way.
My twin - he was someone who was ALWAYS there for me, we were super close and I knew the instant that he passed away, I will never forget that... I lived with him up to the day that he passed. Almost 21 years living with him, we knew everything about each other, and I feel like I've lost half of me, half of me that I will never get back and I have to learn to keep going with that emptiness, that my husband and daughters help fill partially, but honestly, it's part of me that I will NEVER get back. Because he will NEVER be coming back....
So honestly, acting like the way that I'm reacting to all of this and acting is not 'right' because it isn't how you would act, honestly that hurts me, badly, because it makes me feel like what I am doing isn't right, and I am failing him because I can't seem to move on as much as I could.... Question: does one ever move on after losing someone who you have been with since before you were even born? Honestly, I can tell you, I doubt it... it is a pain that I will live with for the REST of my life.
He was my other half, the one who knew everything about me without me really needing to say anything for him to fully understand. The one who I could talk to for hours and never run out of things to say. The one who I had endless amounts of inside jokes with.... and he is just gone, in the blink of an eye, and seven years later, I am still having days of downright struggling, because that is not something that one can really get over.... so telling me I need to just get over it... please don't tell me that. Because you do not get how hard this has been on me...
Last edited by LiviInLove; 03-29-2014 at 03:01 PM..
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Elmira Swift
Curator of Alluvium
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03-29-2014, 02:35 PM
Livi - I have no idea how you should feel right now. I can't even tell my daughter how to feel about the loss of her dad because I haven't been through that myself, and I do remember feeling irritated by anyone suggesting how I should be feeling. He is remembered and I feel that is my own way of dealing with his loss. My apologies to you if anything I've written here suggested how you should feel or deal with your feelings.
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-29-2014, 03:07 PM
Elmira:  No worries hon. It's not like I'm not remembering my twin. I am. He is most definitely not forgotten, but some days are just REALLY hard. It's taken me years to even be able to go see a councilor about it because I didn't let myself fully let go. I knew he was gone, but I felt like if I saw someone he wouldn't be remembered. Mum did make me go see someone shortly after he died as I kind of just gave up for awhile (I was going through the motions without really being fully present), and she was bloody terrified that she was going to lose both of us. She admitted that to me later after the fact, that's why she was pushing me towards therapy. She was grieving the loss of her son at the same time that I was, and still am, in a way, the loss of my twin.
It didn't really help. I would just sit there for the hour and refuse to say anything. Waste of money. It wasn't till 2 years ago that I could get myself to go and talk to someone - 5 years after his passing.
And don't worry, I don't see that at all. I can totally relate to the what if scenarios, and only if.... there are so many of them.
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Elmira Swift
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03-29-2014, 03:25 PM
I was finishing a uni degree when my husband died and went straight into a graduate program. Didn't stop. Just kept moving forward and was not handling the changes to my life or his loss well at all. A doctor I saw for a health problem posed an intervention and I was able to sit down and see a therapist. Thing is, we talked about nearly everything else - not the grief. I'm just glad people are there to offer support. I know it seems clumsy, at times even meddling.
My what-ifs now have more to do what would he suggest to help our daughter? I don't always see or consider the possibility of other options but tend to forge ahead at full steam. He could point out options and possibilities I just didn't think about. This is a bit of an issue right now because I had to shift my daughter out of a traditional school (public/private) to a home school. Initially, everything was college prep. I was going to have her join an online private school so she could interact with a teacher once I found a job. We were told in October that her Asperger's and anxiety disorder were debilitating to the point of disability, and I cannot leave her alone for more than two hours. I'm currently working at home and she's been declared disabled so we have access to additional support for her.
We shifted her education from college prep to learning more "life skills", but I am still trying to find a way for her to use what she's learning now to successfully find a job or go to college at some point. I'd really like it if I could speak with her dad at this point, but I am on my own. Her therapist is great, but she is clueless about education. I feel like I am standing in front of a blank chalkboard eraser in hand constantly. "Will this work?"
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LiviInLove
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03-29-2014, 03:32 PM
I didn't really stop either - I met my boyfriend - now husband - just months after we lost Oliver. He's been amazing.
How old was your daughter when he passed, if you don't mind me asking?
My What If's are more oriented towards, what if this had happened, what if I had told him I didn't want him to go to that party, what if what if what if... So many What if's. No change because it won't change what happened.
I'm sure that you are doing the best that you can with her. *hugs*
I guess for me, I just hate people acting like what I'm doing is wrong. That I am going about this in the wrong way. Is there really one right way to grieve and get over the loss of someone who was your best friend and other half? My husband and mum sometimes push, but they know me and the situation and how I feel as I tell them. And mum always pushes, it's what she does. But she knows that if it is too much I will tell her and she'll back off. I have to say though mum has been a huge help with everything and is there for me whenever I need her to be - she doesn't live too far away from where I live. :)
Last edited by LiviInLove; 03-29-2014 at 03:34 PM..
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Elmira Swift
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03-29-2014, 03:51 PM
Thanks, hon! It was a very surreal experience dating afterward. Met my current husband almost 2 years later and unexpectedly had a son almost exactly 3 years after my first husband died. By unexpectedly I mean I was told I could not have more children and he was told he couldn't have any due to a condition he has. Surprise!!
She was 7yo when Tom died. He had a number of illnesses, so we sort of expected it to happen at some point - just not so soon. I'm glad we have pictures for her to look at because she doesn't remember a whole lot about him now. My biggest what if was intervening sooner about his health, but I know now it would not have changed anything. I miss him. No one could make me laugh as hard as he could! Sometimes we will watch a Monty Python movie to remember him around anniversaries.
No, there is no right way to grieve. Currently helping a friend through the process. Her husband is considerably older and in declining health. They've been together 30+ years. I cannot relate to what she's going through, so I make myself available on her terms. My family (and Tom's) live in other states, but I've had friends nearby who have been supportive. My husband (current) lost him mom about a year after Tom died, so he has some understanding but it's just different. We go through it at different rates. I'm guessing your folks are concerned? Parents push, I think it's just the way we're wired to parent when we see our kids hurting and we don't know what to suggest to them.
The aftermath of Tom's death was pretty difficult and my parents were unable to relate at all. They pulled a few interesting stunts (putting it mildly), so our relationship is strained to this day. I'm just glad I had a network of close friends and a sibling who helped me cope with the emotional drama.
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-29-2014, 04:02 PM
Oh, wow! Sometimes things like that happen. My sister in law was told that she couldn't conceive, yet, they now have a beautiful 2 year old boy, who's the light of their life. They probably won't be able to have any more kids though.
Oliver knew how to make me laugh like no other as well. Alex, my husband, can make me laugh at times, but nothing like Oliver could do.
That's great though that you're there for your friend.  Sometimes just being there is what helps, and making yourself available for whatever they need support for.
I'm glad at least that you had a network of friends and your sibling to help you through it. My parents had no idea how to help me, and they were dealing with learning how to cope with losing a son at the same time, so it was just hard on us all. I didn't know how to help me. I didn't know how to help me.
They were concerned - mum said that the only reason she pushed me harder than she would have otherwise was she was terrified she would lose me as well and couldn't live with losing us both. He passed and she watched me just retreat into myself. I've never really been super social and out there, that was who Oliver was, but I was even less than I was before he passed. Just going through the motions without really fully living. Keeping myself alive, but I was more of just a shell of myself.
Alex, my husband, helped to pull me back, he's been an amazing support. I know Oliver would love him. They would have got along brilliantly.
The times I struggle the hardest most of the time is around the anniversary of his passing, and our birthday - our birthday was last Sunday, and I'm just riding out feelings and missing him something fierce. But I'll be ok.
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Elmira Swift
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03-29-2014, 04:31 PM
 I know I keep saying this, but I cannot imagine what you go through. If not for school and our daughter, I likely would have retreated socially. I quite literally had friends haul me off for coffee or movies if they thought I needed intervention. Very glad you had Alex and your family there.
No idea how I'd handle things if my daughter died. That was a real possibility when she was dealing with a few crises of her own after Tom died and became suicidal - just talking about it but never attempted. The downside is I come across as the reigning queen of over-protective moms to outsiders. When people meet her they don't know her story, and I often leave it to her to explain before I step in and tell people to mind their own business.
For me, it's our wedding anniversary. His birthday is a few weeks prior to the anniversary of his death, so that is often a double-whammy for us. I try not to make a fuss about it because I have to concern myself about how our daughter is handling her own memories at the time. Usually, she winds up snuggling with my son - which is a rare occurrence! Kind of an emotional tidal wave, isn't it?
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-29-2014, 04:40 PM
I had a few friends who tried to drag me out, but I would just refuse to get up and go out unless it was for something that I really did have to do. I'm not huge socially now, but definitely more than I was back then. That's for sure! I'll willingly go over to see my godson without having to be poked and prodded to leave the house. :P That's saying something. :lol:
I know that I have learned how to ask for help from mom, if Alex is at work, as I don't like my daughter seeing me break down in front of her. Thankfully my daughter loves spending time with Nana so it all works out for us, thank goodness.
How does your daughter handle it? Is there times when it's harder on her than other times, have you noticed? And if you don't want to answer questions, just let me know. I can be kinda nosey sometimes.
It really is just an emotional tidal wave. For my family, we kind of stopped celebrating Thanksgiving, because he passed right before Thanksgiving. Last year, we combined it with my hub's family's celebration, I kind of ended up hiding, and not doing much but everyone was warned that that may happen.
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Elmira Swift
Curator of Alluvium
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03-29-2014, 05:25 PM
When I first started dating after Tom died, I had friends who told me I should not discuss him ever. I saw that as being extremely deceptive to whomever I dated because they would have to handle any of the grief I was dealing with and my daughter's. I needed to know how they could handle it before anything beyond seeing movies or going out to dinner happened. I was in school and had to keep my standings in a competitive program. Grades and interesting lectures dragged me out of bed. Fortunately, most of my professors and mentors knew Tom and the experience pulled us a bit closer, oddly enough.
My daughter went through a period of extreme anxiety after Tom died mixed with separation anxiety whenever I dropped her off at school. For about a year she would shut down about an hour before I picked her up from school. She was in private school and her teachers did the best they could to be supportive, but it was more like they were just stepping back and not doing anything to help her. I brought her in for therapy and insisted she had anxiety issues before, but they were grossly exacerbated by Tom's death. The doctor and therapist at the site we went to ignored me. Not a smart move because I fired them. She had the anxiety issues before, but they worsened after Tom died.
The suicidal tendencies happened when she went to public school and lost most of her support system - the private school closed. Anxiety + Asperger's led to social awkwardness then bullying by other students. The teachers were nominally helpful (that's another story). When she was finally diagnosed by a private doctor because the school did nothing to test or help her, she went into therapy to help her develop pragmatic speaking skills. Still, she was bullied and no help from the school, so I pulled her out when she started talking about suicide. I've lost friends and family due to suicide - I don't take threats lightly. I think if her dad was still alive this may not have happened, but I don't know. He had a great job and better access to doctors who knew what they were doing  than I did.
Oddly enough, we had a discussion about what-ifs yesterday and it included what-if Tom was alive - and I shifted the discussion to "we know what we're dealing with now and need to come up with a plan". I found dwelling on mistakes I made (usually trusting "professionals" to know what they are doing or they have all the answers when they simply cannot know everything) concerning how to help her is a waste of time.
I think that if my daughter's current circumstances were different, I would be able to address many grief-related issues I'm still struggling with - but I can't because she needs me to be in the present. Instead, if I am having a mini-crisis, I tend to excuse myself and let it move past/over me. I use some visual meditation techniques at times and create scenarios where I can focus my attention on my memories of Tom and have a "chat" with him. It was something my therapist suggested and it works for me!
I don't have a problem discussing my daughter here - and am going to add I ask her permission to do so before I write anything.
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-29-2014, 05:35 PM
I feel like hiding something like that isn't fair to you. I didn't tell Alex till we had been dating - and even then it was just the very basics. It was still really hard for me to talk about it at that point in time.
 Sounds like it's been an up and down, but you are doing the best that you can do for her.  That's great that works for you, I have tried that - it kind of works for me, but it depends. Sometimes it just makes me miss him worse.
How old is your daughter now? And that's great that you make sure she's ok with you write anything. :) You sound like a great mum.
I've been talking to my brother's boyfriend, who he was with at the time that he passed, a lot lately - he's one of my godson's fathers. We've been swapping a lot of stories back and forth of Oliver, keeping them as light hearted as we can. He really was a wonderful man, and brother. He touched everyone in a positive way, no matter how you knew him. You know, one of those people that you can't help but want to know? That was my twin.
There are days when I know that I need to try to just move on - and I am doing that - but to know that it's ok to move on, and that Oliver will never be forgotten. That is what Oliver would have wanted, there are days when it's easier to say than really do, but compared to how things were after it just happened, I have moved forward, just not as much as some people seem to think I should be. :/
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Elmira Swift
Curator of Alluvium
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03-29-2014, 05:45 PM
Lily is 16 now. There are days I wish I had to worry about her sneaking out to meet someone! She's a great kid and Otto (my son) helped her deal with her own grief.
I'm so glad you have someone you can talk to about Oliver! Tom had a close childhood friend who reached out to us and offered to talk to Lily about Tom. But, she is so shy it's hard for her to discuss anything emotional with someone she doesn't know in person (this friend lives too far for us to meet in person). Tom's family has been very distant. The year after Tom died, they sent a floral bouquet and stuffed animal to celebrate his life. Lily and I did not react well to this. They said it was their family tradition, but that was news to me!
When Tom and I met, I was living in California and he lived in Massachusetts and we corresponded heavily through email. We thought it would be great to print our emails and save them - and they are sitting in a binder for Lily to read when she wants to. Are you at a point where you can record stories about Oliver or is it more comforting to avoid doing that?
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LiviInLove
I'm a Buzy Bee!
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03-29-2014, 05:58 PM
 I'm just glad that she has you and Otto to help her out.
Yeah, we lost contact around the time of the funeral when I just closed myself off to everyone and basically cut off contact with almost everyone - that was around the time that my parents forced me to counseling, and I got back in touch with them a few years ago - I was the surrogate for their son (my godson). Oliver and Jon always talked about finding a way to adopt kids, I felt that being the surrogate for him and Gregory, his husband as they've made it official as soon as California allowed them to, and my husband was ok with it, thankfully. He was on the fence for awhile, but he came around. He knew I needed to do this for me, and it's helped me find that friendship with Jon (and Greg as well). It's nice having someone around who knows the pain, and knew me around that time, and knew Oliver before. :)
That's a great idea! :) Has she shown any interest in wanting to read them. I've been slowly working on writing down memories and stories in a word document, and asking people to contribute stories. It's been extremely rough and slow going. There are times when all I do is want to run away from all the hard memories, despite them being good, because they're reminders that it'll never happen again. It's been an up and down emotional experience with getting them down. It's good, yet EXTREMELY hard to do. I've been working on it off and on for about two years now. I can talk about him, most of the time, without breaking down crying. So that's definitely better than how things used to be.
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Elmira Swift
Curator of Alluvium
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03-29-2014, 06:53 PM
She knows they exist but I think she's opted to avoid them either out of disinterest or she's afraid she will find out a bit more about our relationship than she wanted to know! She's been quite mum about it, so I don't push.
What a beautiful gift!! Are you able to see your godson, Jon and Greg often?
Tom had a handful of close friends and the stories of their antics were near-legendary according to all of them. I wish there was a way to record some of the stories. They grew up in a small community and some of the stories are so extreme I have to wonder if they actually happened. Nothing illegal or dangerous, just crazy pre-internet stuff. One of his friends went to all of their old hang-outs after Tom died and took pictures, then sent copies to me with explanations/stories (because I had no clue!). Tom was also great about taking pictures and told me about them.
However, I agree about it being a mixed blessing. Some of it is cathartic in a way, but there are times when it's painful to remember or learn about events.
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