Jelly, I hope you don't think I made this thread to only yield frustration and make it harder on you guys. I personally love Menewsha and wish there was more I could do to help it out. I personally think the staff does an excellent job. I do like how Mene has managed to stay above the cliche and stereotypical avatar sites and have not fallen prey to making money off advertisements and selling ridiculously priced things, ect. But we all know that Mene could use more "Umfffhhh" at times, but that's okay. I still love it here.

I am only putting out the ideas here. I do not expect anything I suggest in here to immediately done or ever even completed, I am simply putting the ideas out there and seeing what others will think of them.

And as to the butthurt users, do we really need negative and rude users? Change has to happen. Change is an inevitable part of everything. After all, Mene has strict rules against negative and abusive users. If the majority loves it and a few hate it, they have to get over it. That is just the way life is. Real life and pixel life. If they leave because of a change they do not like, then how much could they possibly like Menewsha in the end? -Shrugs-


---------- Post added 03-10-2013 at 09:07 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Risque

for Jelly. ;_;

other suggestions that people can't possibly get too butthurt about:
- more incentives for logging in daily

Ooh, I like this idea too! Might have to put in on the first page..

Honestly, I think that if anyone has a opinion, they ought to vote with their wallet. If it just so happens that adding certain features would attract 5 donators and lose 1, then that 1 is SOL and should just deal with it. It's not just with money either, people need to realize that their opinion only means as much as their contributions to the community.
People who get butthurt easily wouldn't be good for Menewsha in the long run anyways. They will always want the site to be perfectly catered to them even to the point where it becomes impossible to draw in other users. Just because the current state of Menewsha is okay with them doesn't mean that it's okay for everyone else in the community.

all that being said though, it's not like the only potential donator pool left to tap into is 13 year olds who like to spam all day and shit up the forums. I'm sure there are things we can do to attract a more desirable donator base.

Risque, gotta say, I have noticed over the years that some of the biggest complainers are non-donators. Now of course that comment could make people think that I think a non-donators opinion counts for nothing, but that's not true, and I would hope that people who did think that were maybe looking for a reason to get pissed at me. I just find it ironic that often the loudest complaint comes from someone that, it would seem, an option involving cash would have no immediate affect upon.

What you've just said though we have already come to realise, that if Mene is going to survive, harsh though it may seem, we're going to have to stop not doing something because a small percentage hates the idea. Because that small percentage will cause the death of the site. And I guess some of the time the complaints stem from selfishness anyway? Say a user isn't active enough to earn a lot of gold, and doesn't/can't/won't donate. We put a cash item in the shop that they really want, it starts selling in the MP for 5k, they kick off in this forum because they can't buy it with cash, and they can't buy it easily with gold...

It's that entitlement issue that's the problem a whole lot of the time. No-one is automatically entitled to get every single item easily, (or for free re: events/currency/commons) but the general mentality these days seems to be that they should be. Many seem to have forgotten that a huge part of avatar sites is questing.

---

Anyway, I can't go down too much of a tangent as I have to go get in the bath and then take my hammy to get his teeth clipped! I'm happy to carry on discussing things in here though

Just wanted to respond to the log in incentive suggestion. I dreamt something up several years ago for that And THAT is what has always been our problem. We're full of ideas, FULL of them, but they don't get put into practice. Simply because they'd cost money to produce, test and impliment, and the site makes no money...

Inso spent years actively throwing money down a hole, that hole being Menewsha. We have cost him many thousands of dollars, and we've not made him any of that back, not a penny. This is why coded events went, because those cost around $3000 each time, and brought in no revenue at all. In fact, donations typically drop off during events, because people are focused on the event and nothing else. So a lose/lose situation there :(

So while I'm quite sure that many think Inso doesn't care about Mene, it's not that at all, it's simply that he can't afford for pour more money into a bottomless pit that gives him no return. He does call Mene his own personal money pit ><

I can categorically state that if the site started making just a small profit each month, that Inso's interest would be rekindled.

He knows how much potential Mene has, he still has ideas bubbling away on the back-burner, but the site's growth stagnation saps the life out of him as much as it does me. Plus there's the extremely weird phenomenon that I talked about before but cannot find now, so it must have been a post not the thread -.- But that of donations dropping every time a new feature is implimented, I mean WTF?

But yes, gotta scoot for now! \o

Users, no matter where that cannot donate often feel more frustrated. I can understand that since I used to be the same way, but the more active you are, the more gold you will make, the more friends you will make, and perhaps the more donations you can get. It's a shame that some people don't want to put in the effort and yet feel they can complain about not being able to get anything. Note: I am not trying to pick a fight with non donators either. I am not saying all of those who do not donate are like this.

It is nice to know the staff have ideas in storage, but I personally think it would be great if some sort of announcement/thread was created that explained and listed the changes and the ideas for users to discuss, since more users will see the staff threads over ones like this. I think the users of Menewsha will feel the staff cares more (I know the staff cares, but as stated above somewhere, some users do not feel that way) if they post some changes they want to do and then explain why they are not being made active. User input could surely help. I always thought that whichever ideas the users like the most could be the ones implemented first.

I would love to do Inso proud and make this site more progressive and profitable. I don't see him on too often though. I'd love to see him on just mingling with the users, but I feel he isn't around too much. Which is such a shame. I find that I like to see the staff talking and discussing things with other users. I love seeing them put their time and interest into the site, makes it more..meaningful? x)

What kind of ideas has the staff come up with, anyway? Unless it is a "if I tell ya, I'd have to kill ya." Sort of situation. Lol. I'd just hate it so much to see Menewsha disappear into nothing. After you become familiar with the people and the place, it's sad to have to say goodbye. I log on to Mene every day and it is one of the first places I check when I open up Firefox. That's why I made this thread.. I am hoping some users will view it and then maybe understand a few things about this site.. and I wanted to try and help and get other user's inputs on ideas that are discussed throughout the pages.

It would seem many users would like evolving items. Would that ever be possible, Jelly?

Originally Posted by jellysundae

He knows how much potential Mene has, he still has ideas bubbling away on the back-burner, but the site's growth stagnation saps the life out of him as much as it does me. Plus there's the extremely weird phenomenon that I talked about before but cannot find now, so it must have been a post not the thread -.- But that of donations dropping every time a new feature is implimented, I mean WTF?

Now this is weird. I'm curious, but what was the last new feature and did the donations drop then too?

Now, recoloring items.. I have to ask. The task wouldn't be as challenging as creating new items, but could yield more income for the site. Has recoloring crossed the staff's mind at all? Of course there will be those that would disagree with this idea, but heck, I'd pay money for a recolored version of an old CI. I'd pay more than the usual cost of the new CI's for one.. and I can guarantee I wouldn't be the only one. Yes, the butthurtness would be there, but sometimes, the site just will have to do what it has to do to try and earn more. And if the recoloring of said items didn't help to improve any income, then it could be tossed aside for a while. Maybe it could be something like, if you donate twenty dollars at a time you will receive a recolored version of CI that is harder to come by. It could be a recolored Gargoyles or even recolors for the Dark Alchemist or Ink Blott. I have noticed that a lot of users are actually buying these items and that they are very hard to come by. Of course there are other options there too to recolor and whatnot. And the more expensive items that are rare to come by like a Pudao or even the head wing CI's could be recolored and sold individually in the CI shop. I would pay more money for a purple and black/white Oriental fan. Of course I love that item and would want any recolor of it. x)

A thread with frequently suggested ideas and reasons is something I've been wanting to get together for a while. Wasn't sure if that would be a good idea though. Reason coming up.
As well as the daily log-in incentive.

As with many other ideas, they end up taking the backburner to more pertinent things.

I don't know about Jelly, and I'm sure it seems petty, but I wouldn't want to make public all the ideas we have (some there can be because they're same ideas you guys come up with too ) because if they get implemented, they wouldn't be a surprise. There might also be the "when is this going to happen." And as with the thread of "frequently suggested things", it's basically a list of what we can't do... And frankly, that seems depressing. XDD What would be more depressing though, is seeing the reason why, which is more than likely going to be the lack of funds to make it happen. Maybe some people would feel inspired to donate more (for a little while), but I think for plenty it would become a "well, the place is going downhill/not improving anyway, why bother donating." Perhaps also the "this was mentioned 3 years ago, why hasn't it happened." It would basically turn into something else for people to complain about, and definitely wouldn't make me feel good about trying to improve things for the site. How the community feels is important, no doubt about that, but a more important thing to consider is staff morale. And we can tell each other not to let the negativity get to us, but it does sometimes. And really it should, because if it didn't, we'd do things without care for the community, and more than a handful of people wouldn't like it. Giving a shit about what people say (at least to some extent), is part of the job.

Edit:
Rantrantrant.

Velvet, recolours of past CIs has been discussed too, yes. And guess what, got thrown out because some people would hate the idea...we went as far as deciding to poll people to get a clearer indication of the public feeling about the idea, but in the end became too discouraged because of how we knew some people would react

Iku's right, we'd not make public ideas for future features. That's just not good business practice, for a miriad reasons, some of which Iku already mentioned

I understand what your saying, but sometimes Menewshan users could use a little knowledge on what the staff would like to change and would like to do. And a thorough explanation on to why these changes haven't already happened. If other users leave because they think the site is going downhill and not worth it anymore, then what kind of users are they? Not very supportive and dedicated in my opinion.
I know such announcements were made some time ago, but there are newer users and the older users probably would like updates, perhaps? *shrugs*

Jelly, has that been recent? I don't remember ever seeing a thread or poll like that. >_<


---------- Post added 03-11-2013 at 04:10 PM ----------

I understand why things can't be done though.

It never got as far as asking people what they thought, the idea got shelved before then.

It's tough/maybe impossible to know the best thing to do. Inso's been extremely honest in the past about the site's financial situation, but I'm not sure if people forget or just assume that it can't still be that bad. Constantly reminding people (though I do tend to mention it a fair bit) could well scare people away. They're not to blame, it's just the way some people's minds work.

I feel like people would grow numb to it also.

I understand what your saying, but sometimes Menewshan users could use a little knowledge on what the staff would like to change and would like to do. And a thorough explanation on to why these changes haven't already happened. If other users leave because they think the site is going downhill and not worth it anymore, then what kind of users are they? Not very supportive and dedicated in my opinion.

I know. We discuss plenty how we can involve the users in things and make them feel important and part of the site, you know? Sadly though, plenty of times, the result just kind of confirms how ... little people care, in a way. Just look at this thread: http://www.menewsha.com/forum/main/a...-mr-mayor.html. 14 Replies. The main contest thread looks a little better, but really pales in comparison to if it was happening during an event. Remember the contest where the users could draw the contribution CI? Not much happened there either. A bit, yes.

If people have suggestions on things and post them here, we answer as best as we can. To me, that seems sufficient. Even now, we're here telling you why certain things can't/don't happen. It may be nice for newer users, to see us telling them how things are going on a regular basis, but it would get old fast and especially because things wouldn't improve.

If someone leaves because they feel the site isn't worth it, that's their call. We try our best to bring users and keep them, and of course, we lose some. But every person that has ever donated or been part of the community through the forums or otherwise has been an asset. So, I'm not seeing a point in differentiating users based on their reasons to leave.

Nothing is ever that easy. *sigh*
I just hope to see Menewsha continue going on.

As for that Mr. Mayor contest, I am surprised that more people have not entered and gave it more attention. I plan on entering sometime soon, just kind of taking my time. I want my entries to be perfect. I guess this seems to be a pretty inactive month for Mene..

Aren't we already at the point where everyone who left Menewsha did so because they didn't see things changing? We have more people in the Fresh Meat that are returning than are actually first time users. I think it's time to start implementing some small changes at least, to stir up some word of mouth on other sites.

Can I say.....after having lurked in here for a little while. I thought awhile back that menewsha was on its way down a hole that it just couldn't seem to raise its head above. The staff, however, are far from to blame. I know nobody is really saying its you guys but I just wanted to clarify this point. I watch you guys work hard everyday to make this place, despite what little it has, a fun place for all of the people on here. Poor Jelly most of all. There was a point, and truth be told I'm not entirely sure that there isn't still that option, when I felt that I'd come on one day and menewsha would just be gone in a puff of smoke. But its not. Why? Because the people, but more importantly, the staff cares deeply about what happens to menewsha, god only knows why, but they do. And for that I know I in the very least, thank them whole heartily.

That being said, as the users we need to help a little too. The sight can not run on wishful thinking and staff love. There are a few users I know that are trying to help the staff a little, but those users are far and few between. When the users, and I don't mean all of them, are so negative and the site is so disheartened, its no wonder Inso feels little love from us. I would be extremely sad if I where him, and personally I may have given up some time ago. When it comes down to it I think Inso needs more love from us before he can give any back, he did that for too long without any success.

If every user who wanted to help implemented just one good idea and turned one person to help as well. Things could get better.....but as it stands most people want to only help themselves.

On a side but related note, You can't make everyone happy, and I feel like you guys have tried that for far too long, just make more people happy then you upset and you will be heading in the right direction.

We're doing what we can But there's a big gap between someone saying "you should make some changes" and it actually being able to happen, sadly . Stuff is in the wings that has always been in the wings, I'm actively harassing Yan about features that I'm being pretty insistent about us needing, but that only goes so far.

Yan does stuff for us when he can, but Inso keeps him busy and he doesn't have a great deal of time that he can dedicate to us. Yan can only do so much, too, most things he has to do everything that he is able to then hand it over to Inso to actually add to the code. We had a coder we could borrow occasionally if it was something that wasn't going to take long so wasn't going to be costly. Sadly he did take a long time over things, we have one unfinished project rolling around somewhere because he took too long/cost too much and Inso pulled him off it. But that's business for you. Another time I set him a task on Inso's instructions to give him something to do as he was wasting time at that point, but he never did what I'd asked. That guy now works for Inso's business partner and is nothing to do with Mene in any way, and I'm not sure if that's a bad or a good thing ><

But you know, we're still here! 6 years down the line, with precious little development during that time (compared to some places) and we're STILL here! At the minute things are just going around in circles because for every situation this needs to happen so that can happen, but this needs that to happen first, etc...

I feel all we need is a little move ahead somewhere...just that something that will give us a toehold on the ladder, that will turn the tide. Plus of course it's finding the physical time and the mental energy. Part of this is my fault I know, there's things that I started but neglected. Mainly because of a lack of time, but I've already said to the staff that this year is gonna be the year Mene turns things around ;D

Did you see I implimented the active users counter on the forum index page? Down by today's birthdays? I watch that number like a hawk I want it to go up \o/

We'll get there though but right this minute, I need to go to bed!

Interesting, I never noticed the new counter. I shall now actively watch it as well.

Hopefully I can help bring in some people and raise that could.

BTW....what constitutes "Active"

Also I am slightly disheartened that there was a record set for most users ever online....that was not broken.....from back in 08.......

You could say that avatar sites peaked in 08 as well, so it's not all THAT disheartening, ehhhh.

All I know is that I don't have a lot of spare money to donate. I donate when I can. And I contribute now by pixelling items for the site. A year ago I wasn't anywhere near good enough to ever try that but I got some help from jelly and a couple users and here I am. To me, that's me making a difference, a small small difference, but a difference. Because now wishie isn't in charge of everything and it allows us to have more new items because there are Demo and me officially helping. Before it was wishie and the random staff who took it upon themselves to figure out how to make basic items. THAT is dedication by the staff for sure!!

There will never be an idea that EVERYBODY loves. So unfortunately we will bump a few heads over time.

I WISH I could code things..I would do that for free if I could. But I'm not a coder and it doesn't make any sense to me unfortunately.

Has there ever been an all call for users who can code? I know that is what happened with the pixels and that's how Demo and I got interested and eventually got brought on board.

But there might possibly me a user with basic coding skills who can help out?

Here's an idea... a MENE-THON!

X goal for the month, and track the amount of donations that come in. Only the name of the users who donate would be available to the staff, until the end (perhaps?). The person(s) who donate the most, are... Staff for the Day, or something to that effect... or have a dream item created in their honor.

@Maria- I don't think inso would ever go for that. Unlike pixels, coding dictates everything. A bad bit of coding could mess up more then its worth.

---------- Post added 03-11-2013 at 11:19 PM ----------

Although, I love LOVE LOVE the fact that you and Demo do pixels now....just sayin.

I dunno - we could have a professional coder in our midst.... XDDD

But yeah - me too - it's been a ton of fun!

I want to go back to school for software engineering, myself. But again...I don't think Inso would go for that plan but *shrugs*

Your stuff has been gorgeous so far.

On a random note- some random girl called me and acted like she knew me and spewed out so many words....that I didn't know who they where......and talked at me for 5 minutes before I could tell them that they had the wrong number.

A Menethon would be fun, something like that is definitely worth bearing in mind, though I think that would benefit from a more active userbase or would suffer the high likelihood of falling flat. Definitely a fun idea that's worth discussion though, thanks Senpai

Re: a coder. Basic skills aren't what's needed. Someone would need amazing skills for Inso to even consider them, a proper professional (and they would expect mega moolah, this is why all the coders we have had in Inso's time have been from The Philippines etc. because Mene cannot afford Western fees). And let me tell you, Inso's pretty scathing about other coders skills I guess because all coders have a massive ego and think they're the shit (Inso included, gotta be said), when the reality can often be that they're just shit It's easy to be some coding genius when you're the only person in the place who can do it, yes? But when you go up against someone like Inso, with real skills, suddenly your code looks like the pile of poop that it is...

Inso may be many things, but half-assed about his work (or anything) is not one of them, and protective over his property is one of them. If he has time he goes over every bit of code made by someone else because he doesn't trust it, and because people have let him down in the past (Winter Nights ovens breaking all the time is a good case in point, that guy got fired >.>)

You guys have seen him in action protecting Mene, and a lot of you didn't like it one bit because he plays hardball. Inso takes no bullshit from anyone, and if someone pushes him, he pushes back 10 times as hard, and keeps pushing until the other person realises what a mistake they made by going up against a crazy Australian . Let's face it, Inso's the daddy, and he's our daddy :D I wish Mene could make him proud, and I'm confident that it will, we've just got to work hard at it

We need more users, it's as simple as that. I've said elsewhere, we can't bleed the people we already have dry. Hell, I can't even afford to donate, myself! I keep wanting to, but I've got to focus on clearing the money that I owe the bank first. When that's done I'll be £90 a month better off as that's how much my bank charges are so I know what it's like to not be able to financially support the site.

Once the site gains enough active users for donations to increase again things will snowball, but activity is always the problem, isn't it? People stop logging in once an event is over, people lurk, people are afraid to post in new threads (particularly big and busy ones), people don't create new threads for a miriad different reasons... all these things create the activity issue, it's a user-created problem, then the same people turn around and complain that Mene's boring ><

But we have a solid core of loyal users ( for every one of you!) we've just got to find a big enough carrot to lure others to be on here more


I know I'm probably not addressing everything people are saying, bring it up again if you want my opinion on something in particular, becaause I'm pretty awful at explaining anything in the first place, and I ramble like a baws at the best of times

I don't know much about coders so I thought it was worth a shot to suggest XD Nevermind though - that makes sense XD

So it's about advertising and doing something on mene to keep them on mene.

For the menethon - a cut little beaker thing that fills up until we reach the goal would be super cute.

Then it's about finding a way to advertise for free since we don't have the money. I know Seri started a thread asking for suggestions about that and there were some good ideas.

We have a whole forum dedicated to advertising Mene -cooough-. Poor little forum.

haha that's true - you'd think I'd remember that because I post in the pixel subforum all the time XD

For me it's about finding and mainly the sustained motivation and effort to drive things forward, and I'll be the first to admit that I fail pretty spectacularly at doing that