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kelseydee
(^._.^)ノ
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09-12-2015, 02:02 AM
Now we get to the meat.
Jesus came not to judge the world but to save it.
Any who believe in him shall in no wise lose their reward.
In Jesus came the New covenant of salvation thru grace.
Just as the invitational song says, just as I am.
Jesus said, think not I am come to destroy the law(Old Testament) I am come not to destroy, but to fulfill.
Truely I say to u, not one dot of the law shall pass away before all things r made new.
He who breaks the least of the commandments shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
Notice what he said? The least in heaven.
Then he said, but he who keeps the law shall b called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus loved you enough that he left heaven to b born into the world as a man. Lived as a man& died.
But unlike us, he came back.
He can't just take us.
That would void free will.
It's like this. Sin is a plague that infected human kind.
The blood of Christ is the serum, the cure. But u have to take it freely.
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Mr. Wrong
Challenge your paradigm
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09-12-2015, 05:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dystopia
If God created me, then I will do as I please, and he can do as he pleases. But if he would condemn me for choosing my own path, then I'm certainly not going to respect him for it. If I'm damned, I'm damned. But frankly, I'd rather be damned by God than damned by myself- If I would need to change who I am, ignore my good reason and feelings and the morals I formed through life experiences to take up a list of commands that do not resonate with me, then I would be betraying myself and lying to myself. I prefer my freedom to anyone's approval.
If God thinks that he's entitled to my obedience for my creation- If God would not only punish me but people completely unrelated to me because of my choices- then there's nothing I can do to stop him. But you can either be a father and good and benevolent OR you can damn people for their personal choices. Just because he created us doesn't mean he's exempt from this rule- I laugh at any religion that preaches love and forgiveness and the necessity of hell in the same breath
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Of what is God's purpose for creating you if all you wish to do is live to please yourself? And where do you think good comes from?
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Sarahbelle
Rip Van Winkle
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09-12-2015, 11:30 AM
For what reason do we have children even though they are selfish when they are small and they will eventually grow up and leave? For what reason do we have pets who only pay attention to us because we feed them?
The answer is LOVE. But I'm sure you knew that already.
I think if god truly was love, if he truly loved us, then hell would not be a necessity. He could forgive us as we are supposed to forgive others. I know there is the point that some punishment should be needed, consequences for actions, but this world is messed up enough that we already receive consequences as we live. Further punishment after death is highly unnecessary, especially for eternity, and seems to be not a very loving thing to do. If a loved one keeps hurting us over and over or keeps making stupid mistakes, sure, we push them away for awhile for our own safety and hope they learn a lesson from it. But do we see to it then that they are tortured for all eternity? No. That is absolutely absurd and cruel.
I am the survivor of abuse and I do not wish to see my abuser tortured, not even for a short time. I hope that he someday faces some consequences for his actions, that perhaps something will go wrong for him or what he did comes to light and damages his good reputation, sure, but torture? Despite all he did to me, no, I do not wish to sink to his level like that. I am better than that. And holding that sort of a grudge only hurts me further. If I can move on and let go, despite the ways I still suffer from it sometimes (I'm fairly sure I have ptsd), how come god feels it necessary to torture sinners for all eternity? For most people that are supposed to end up in hell, the punishment is exceeding the crime. He should be able to rise above being hurt and not sink beneath the level of those who wronged him... if I can do it, surely he can. And if he cannot, then he is not a god worth my love and worship.
Good does not need to have a source any further than the hearts of man. There are many good atheists out there who do far more charitable work and respect and love their fellow human beings simply because they recognize that we are all human and we all have problems and need to work together and care for each other. It is a kindness and goodness and compassion that springs forth out of recognizing the sameness in each other.
On the other hand, much much evil has come at the hands of religious people. Many have been killed or starved or beaten or shamed or ostracized in the name of a god.
I'm not saying that atheists are better than religious people, and I also recognize that religious people who do such terrible things are often distorting the teachings they are supposed to be following. I am simply pointing out that good does not need to find its source in a god. It finds its source in the choices we make.... it does not need to come from anything further than that.
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kelseydee
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09-12-2015, 06:04 PM
There's no scripture a to why god created us.
In Genesis we're told that god planted a garden& then made himself some innocent little gardeners.
God walked in his garden W Adam in the cool of the evening.
I think we were a stress reliever.
But that's just my opinion.
Stress!!! U explain...god ? U ask.
Sure, running a whole universe&beyond is hard work.
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Mr. Wrong
Challenge your paradigm
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09-13-2015, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahbelle
For what reason do we have children even though they are selfish when they are small and they will eventually grow up and leave? For what reason do we have pets who only pay attention to us because we feed them?
The answer is LOVE. But I'm sure you knew that already.
I think if god truly was love, if he truly loved us, then hell would not be a necessity. He could forgive us as we are supposed to forgive others. I know there is the point that some punishment should be needed, consequences for actions, but this world is messed up enough that we already receive consequences as we live. Further punishment after death is highly unnecessary, especially for eternity, and seems to be not a very loving thing to do. If a loved one keeps hurting us over and over or keeps making stupid mistakes, sure, we push them away for awhile for our own safety and hope they learn a lesson from it. But do we see to it then that they are tortured for all eternity? No. That is absolutely absurd and cruel.
I am the survivor of abuse and I do not wish to see my abuser tortured, not even for a short time. I hope that he someday faces some consequences for his actions, that perhaps something will go wrong for him or what he did comes to light and damages his good reputation, sure, but torture? Despite all he did to me, no, I do not wish to sink to his level like that. I am better than that. And holding that sort of a grudge only hurts me further. If I can move on and let go, despite the ways I still suffer from it sometimes (I'm fairly sure I have ptsd), how come god feels it necessary to torture sinners for all eternity? For most people that are supposed to end up in hell, the punishment is exceeding the crime. He should be able to rise above being hurt and not sink beneath the level of those who wronged him... if I can do it, surely he can. And if he cannot, then he is not a god worth my love and worship.
Good does not need to have a source any further than the hearts of man. There are many good atheists out there who do far more charitable work and respect and love their fellow human beings simply because they recognize that we are all human and we all have problems and need to work together and care for each other. It is a kindness and goodness and compassion that springs forth out of recognizing the sameness in each other.
On the other hand, much much evil has come at the hands of religious people. Many have been killed or starved or beaten or shamed or ostracized in the name of a god.
I'm not saying that atheists are better than religious people, and I also recognize that religious people who do such terrible things are often distorting the teachings they are supposed to be following. I am simply pointing out that good does not need to find its source in a god. It finds its source in the choices we make.... it does not need to come from anything further than that.
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I don't like the existence of hell any more than you or anyone else does. I've spent countless hours thinking about the breadth and scope of hell and what it would be like to be there myself and what it would be like for others to be there. But none of us have to go there if we believe and put our trust in God.
Obviously, those who commit wrong in the name of God are guilty of sin. Historically, the Spanish Inquisition was the most egregious abuse of power by the Catholic church. And what goes on with all this killing in the name of Islam is far worse.
But one must always consider the source. Just because someone commits a crime in God's name, doesn't make God guilty of that crime. That would the same as saying that a nation or state is guilty of murder because there are laws prohibiting murder, but some criminal commits murder anyhow.
My father was fond of repeating to me a few of life's wisdom when I was a boy. One of those wisdoms was that life was like a grinding wheel. This grinding wheel could grind you into powder or it could sharpen and hone you like the sharp edge of a blade.
I've seen all the injustices in this world the same way you have and it makes me angry. We can let these injustices cause us to become bitter or we can consider that these injustices have a source and that source is Satan. God allows Satan to rule this world because he wants to test us. For us to use the free will that he has given us to choose Him or to deny Him. Jesus says that those who deny me I will deny to my father.
I know I do not wish to be on the wrong end of that stick.
This is what I believe about atheists since you mentioned them: Atheists proudly profess their non belief in the existence of God and yet they read the bible regularly and yet they try at every turn to convince others to also reject God even so far as to file lawsuits and the like. Why try so hard denying that which you don't believe even exists? I don't believe that the moon is made of cheese, but I don't spend any time attempting to persuade others what I believe.
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Sarahbelle
Rip Van Winkle
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09-13-2015, 09:29 AM
You completely missed the point of my post. But, I'm just going to let things go. You obviously find meaning and purpose from what you believe in, and I can respect that and do not wish to sway you. I just believe in free and open discourse, in the exchanging of ideas, and that blind faith in anything is harmful so questioning is good. But since you seem to be misinterpreting what I've been trying to say, and Cheshire is content to just repeat the "Romans Road" forever like a broken record, I think it's best for me to just leave you two to your discussion. It's not worth the headache on my end as I will never get an answer that makes sense to me. But unlike many who need to know, I'm quite happy as an agnostic. There are answers I will never have, and that is fine and makes life interesting.
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kelseydee
(^._.^)ノ
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09-13-2015, 01:02 PM
All of this metaphysical discourse is confusion intended to stop the the gospels of Christ from being preached.
But I shall peach his word according to his instruction, go forth& peach my message to all, if they don't listen walk away. I'll take it from there.
Remember, all the hate& violence done in the name of Jesus is a lie. That's the point of this thread.
To tell u the truth about Jesus.
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Mr. Wrong
Challenge your paradigm
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09-13-2015, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahbelle
You completely missed the point of my post. But, I'm just going to let things go. You obviously find meaning and purpose from what you believe in, and I can respect that and do not wish to sway you. I just believe in free and open discourse, in the exchanging of ideas, and that blind faith in anything is harmful so questioning is good. But since you seem to be misinterpreting what I've been trying to say, and Cheshire is content to just repeat the "Romans Road" forever like a broken record, I think it's best for me to just leave you two to your discussion. It's not worth the headache on my end as I will never get an answer that makes sense to me. But unlike many who need to know, I'm quite happy as an agnostic. There are answers I will never have, and that is fine and makes life interesting.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't your point that you don't approve of hell and equate it to unnecessary torture and as such you won't worship a God who has created such a thing?
I am not a fan of hell's existence, but it is something man cannot change. However, we can avoid hell. Isn't that what we really want? I don't like stating this, but you are choosing spiritual suicide right now. And I know that God does not want that for his creation. You musn't believe that God is vindictive because He is not.
That's why I say that all these injustices in the world we see every day can either make you bitter and turn you away from God or you can see them as they truly are which is a result of man's sin.
As I stated before, this life is a test and what we see and feel in this life is all part of that test. It isn't easy to see the wicked go unpunished or to even prosper.
Have you ever heard someone say that the greatest lie the devil ever told was that he did not exist? This means that Satan wants to blind us to what he is really doing and pin that blame upon God. After, all it was God who created all things, right?
But imagine what this earth would be like if all in it were to at least obey the Ten Commandments. I ask you, what would our earth be like then? It would be like hell never existed.
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Sarahbelle
Rip Van Winkle
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09-13-2015, 06:10 PM
No, my point was that how can a god who is supposed to be better than us incapable of forgiveness on the level that I am? If I am capable of forgiving someone who has wronged me so deeply and has never apologized... why can god not do the same? This therefore makes me better than god.
I am not bitter at a god that I do not believe in. I believe in some sort of spiritual realm or force, I am not sure right now what is out there (hence, agnostic, it means not knowing), but I am sure that it is not the christian god.
I think both good and evil come from the choices that we make. It does not need to come from a god or a devil.
Sorry if my wordiness has muddled the issue. Perhaps some brevity will produce some clarity.
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Mr. Wrong
Challenge your paradigm
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09-13-2015, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahbelle
No, my point was that how can a god who is supposed to be better than us incapable of forgiveness on the level that I am? If I am capable of forgiving someone who has wronged me so deeply and has never apologized... why can god not do the same? This therefore makes me better than god.
I am not bitter at a god that I do not believe in. I believe in some sort of spiritual realm or force, I am not sure right now what is out there (hence, agnostic, it means not knowing), but I am sure that it is not the christian god.
I think both good and evil come from the choices that we make. It does not need to come from a god or a devil.
Sorry if my wordiness has muddled the issue. Perhaps some brevity will produce some clarity.
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But God can and does forgive you. This was the whole point of Jesus dying on the cross. Am I correct that you believe that eternal punishment is too much for a God who is love?
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Sarahbelle
Rip Van Winkle
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09-13-2015, 06:41 PM
It is too much for a god who is love and is supposedly better than I am. If I do not wish eternal punishment on anyone, even those who have personally harmed me to the point that I still suffer after affects.... yes, it is excessive and cruel, not loving and forgiving. The punishment does not fit the crime. There should be an end point at some point where he says, okay, that is enough, you have learned your lesson, come back to me. But he does not.
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Mr. Wrong
Challenge your paradigm
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09-13-2015, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahbelle
It is too much for a god who is love and is supposedly better than I am. If I do not wish eternal punishment on anyone, even those who have personally harmed me to the point that I still suffer after affects.... yes, it is excessive and cruel, not loving and forgiving. The punishment does not fit the crime. There should be an end point at some point where he says, okay, that is enough, you have learned your lesson, come back to me. But he does not.
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I think there is a good reason for that. What I am about to tell you is outside of the bible as far I know and is my own thinking.
One has to believe that there is an existence outside of time. We know that the earth, the sun, the stars, the planets, and indeed the universe itself has a definite age whether science can pin point it accurately or not.
And since our universe and all things in it have a precise age, this means that something came before the universe. Thus there must be a creator that existed prior to its creation. But man only understands a beginning, a middle, and an end. Man cannot fully grasp eternity as it is.
When I think of time, I picture Saturn with its rings of meteoroids circumferencing it with Saturn being eternal and the meteoroids being time itself. And the meteroids go around Saturn as is if controlled by gravity.
To me, God, in this instance, is as Saturn. He sits seemingly motionless in control of these meteroids, or time as we know it. My overall point is that God exists outside of time and can manipulate it fully.
Those are my own thoughts on God and time.
We God created man, he gave us all eternal souls meaning that our souls exists beyond the realm of time as He does. As such when God promises us life, it is eternal life. When He promises death, it is eternal death. Therefore, any of His promises made to us are eternal due to the fact that God himself is eternal.
God gives us the chance NOW to believe on Him and to follow him into heaven where we will enjoy eternal life. We are not given the option of repenting while in hell. The bible says that we will confess that Jesus is Lord in this life or upon entering hell. But when we confess that Jesus is Lord when entering hell, it is too late and there is no going back.
So obviously, man's view of time and that of God is quite different. I hope my explanation wasn't too verbose for your liking.
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Sarahbelle
Rip Van Winkle
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09-13-2015, 07:43 PM
No no, haha, I meant that perhaps it was me being verbose that was being confusing, because I know I tend to go on and on and I was afraid the problem was that what I intended to say was getting lost in my wordiness.
It is an interesting thought you propose, yes, when it comes to the concepts of god and time. I think there seems to be indications that time passes in heaven and hell, though, even though god himself sits outside of it, at least from stuff in the bible. But then again, those who wrote it do not think of the universe in the manner that we do today, either.
God's seeming inability to forgive the unrepentant (and thus eternal punishment comes into play) is far from the only problem I have with the bible and the christian faith, but it was an interesting theoretical discussion, and I do appreciate that you took the time to put forth your ideas instead of simply dismissing me. As I said, I like intelligent discussion :)
I also was not putting forth the idea that evil done in god's name is rightly done (as I had said those who do it are obviously not truly following their scriptures, as the purpose of this thread is to clear up things like misuse of scripture - I do understand that). I was merely mentioning good atheists and evil religious people to point out that good does not need to come from god when even atheists are capable of it. Fear of hell and love of god does not keep people in line when atheists can do good and religious people can do bad. I have become agnostic and I still am a very good person with a lot of love in me for all my human brothers and sisters. The worst I have done in years (other than leaving christianity behind, obviously) is the occasional lie here and there because I have a mother who is far too nosy and I would like some privacy :| or, well, that was the case when I was living with her, haha. Things are much better now.
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Mr. Wrong
Challenge your paradigm
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09-13-2015, 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahbelle
No no, haha, I meant that perhaps it was me being verbose that was being confusing, because I know I tend to go on and on and I was afraid the problem was that what I intended to say was getting lost in my wordiness.
It is an interesting thought you propose, yes, when it comes to the concepts of god and time. I think there seems to be indications that time passes in heaven and hell, though, even though god himself sits outside of it, at least from stuff in the bible. But then again, those who wrote it do not think of the universe in the manner that we do today, either.
God's seeming inability to forgive the unrepentant (and thus eternal punishment comes into play) is far from the only problem I have with the bible and the christian faith, but it was an interesting theoretical discussion, and I do appreciate that you took the time to put forth your ideas instead of simply dismissing me. As I said, I like intelligent discussion :)
I also was not putting forth the idea that evil done in god's name is rightly done (as I had said those who do it are obviously not truly following their scriptures, as the purpose of this thread is to clear up things like misuse of scripture - I do understand that). I was merely mentioning good atheists and evil religious people to point out that good does not need to come from god when even atheists are capable of it. Fear of hell and love of god does not keep people in line when atheists can do good and religious people can do bad. I have become agnostic and I still am a very good person with a lot of love in me for all my human brothers and sisters. The worst I have done in years (other than leaving christianity behind, obviously) is the occasional lie here and there because I have a mother who is far too nosy and I would like some privacy :| or, well, that was the case when I was living with her, haha. Things are much better now.
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I attempt to discuss all things intelligently with a dash of silly thrown in. To be dismissive of you would be to insult you and that wouldn't be right because I believe that you are being earnest In your questions.
It is only recently that I have decided afters many years of running from God to renew my faith in him. In all these years I never read the bible much or attended church so I cannot give to you the exact verse in the bible you should read to answer your concerns regarding the penalty of hell, but it is there and I don't think that you should put off doing so.
From my human perspective I see hell the same way that you do. Too big. Too excessive. It boggles the mind, really. But I do know that we don't have to go if we follow God.
I recently listened to a pastor on the radio who was speaking about entering heaven and that God puts out of our memories at least some of what we knew on this earth. Namely people we knew that did not make it to heaven. He added, for how would we enjoy heaven knowing that there are others suffer?
Maybe I can find a sermon online and relay it you here if you would like. Condensed, of course.
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kelseydee
(^._.^)ノ
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09-21-2015, 04:22 PM
Wow, guys. The whole point of Jesus was forgiveness& redemption.
Christianity is simple. Self serving false teachers make it difficult. First is faith. U have to believe on Jesus. Next is repentance. Because of Satan's infection of our kind W sin we have to repent. Ask for forgiveness.
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Mr. Wrong
Challenge your paradigm
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09-21-2015, 05:05 PM
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I don't know how many times my father told me that one.
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hummy
Little birdie ♥
☆ Penpal
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11-22-2015, 01:14 AM
I miss seeing this threadie
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kelseydee
(^._.^)ノ
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11-22-2015, 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I don't know how many times my father told me that one.
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It's the truth if u ever told it.
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kelseydee
(^._.^)ノ
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11-23-2015, 10:52 PM
If I wanted to tell u about Christianity in one statement, it would b this.
Jesus said, what so ever u would that men should do unto u, do u even so unto them.
This is the law and the prophets.
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hummy
Little birdie ♥
☆ Penpal
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11-23-2015, 10:54 PM
That was hard for me to read with the 'u'
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kelseydee
(^._.^)ノ
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11-23-2015, 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummy
That was hard for me to read with the 'u'
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Really, it's a common short cut. Oh well.
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Inzanebraned
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11-24-2015, 09:35 AM
Okay....everybody knows that I am a non-believer of God...
I have my own reasons for my non-belief.
I do not push my beliefs onto others, nor would I ever consider coercing anyone to believe anything other than they choose to believe.
I only offer details about my choice to those who ask.
I often find myself listening, intently, to various people's perspectives on God and the messages that the bible imply....rarely disputing their views unless I am asked, specifically, what my opinions are.
Mr. Wrong, my friend, I am somewhat offended by your view of atheists....for you inadvertently lumped me in with your stereotypical description of atheists!
I would be considered an athiest...if I HAVE to be labeled....and I don't do any of the things you say atheists do!
Seems a bit judgemental, in my opinion....
I still value your opinions and views....and, above all, your friendship!
I just needed to clarify to you that not all Atheists believe and behave the same, just as all Religious People don't all believe and behave the same way...and that I do not fit into your perception of what an Athiest is..
Oh...by the way, I do believe in Jesus....just not that he was spawned from a Supreme Being.
My common-sense-mind won't allow God to be real to me.
My loss, I guess....if I'm wrong.  !
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kelseydee
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11-24-2015, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzanebraned
Okay....everybody knows that I am a non-believer of God...
I have my own reasons for my non-belief.
I do not push my beliefs onto others, nor would I ever consider coercing anyone to believe anything other than they choose to believe.
I only offer details about my choice to those who ask.
I often find myself listening, intently, to various people's perspectives on God and the messages that the bible imply....rarely disputing their views unless I am asked, specifically, what my opinions are.
Mr. Wrong, my friend, I am somewhat offended by your view of atheists....for you inadvertently lumped me in with your stereotypical description of atheists!
I would be considered an athiest...if I HAVE to be labeled....and I don't do any of the things you say atheists do!
Seems a bit judgemental, in my opinion....
I still value your opinions and views....and, above all, your friendship!
I just needed to clarify to you that not all Atheists believe and behave the same, just as all Religious People don't all believe and behave the same way...and that I do not fit into your perception of what an Athiest is..
Oh...by the way, I do believe in Jesus....just not that he was spawned from a Supreme Being.
My common-sense-mind won't allow God to be real to me.
My loss, I guess....if I'm wrong.  !
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In the book of acts, Paul& Peter were talking and Paul said, to the Jew or faith is blasphemy and non sense to the gentile.
Salvation thru Jesus is by grace and not of works lest any man should boast.
So see, it starts with faith. With believing on Jesus as your Savior from Satan and hell.
Izzy, u said u believe in historic Jesus. That's a good start. Read the book of Luke. I think you'll b pleasantly surprised at Christ teachings
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Inzanebraned
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11-24-2015, 07:54 PM
Honestly....I doubt that anything short of a miracle or visible divine intervention will make me believe that God existe...
That doesn't mean that I won't read or listen to the story, though!
I think that I tend to be more Christian-like than a lot of Christians I've known....and I don't feel like I am being forced or expected to do so.
I just try to treat folks like I'd like to be treated...accept their differences without judgement....and I rarely have to choose to not take more than my fair share of anything....
I just don't pray to anybody....
I pray for good things to happen to others...but not to a specific entity.
I have had Sarah for 33 years...I've watched her suffer from seizures, sit and watch other children run and play while she is strapped to a wheelchair, and choke on her food....
It is bad enough for me to suffer along side her...but for innocent SARAH to have to suffer the ways that she has??!!?
I cannot fathom a merciful God allowing innocent beings to suffer needlessly!
It would have been more merciful to have taken her away on the day she was born...
I feel better not having a God to blame.
But, this is NOT my only reason for not believing in God!....it just solidified my disbelief that much more.  !
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Mr. Wrong
Challenge your paradigm
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11-26-2015, 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzanebraned
Okay....everybody knows that I am a non-believer of God...
I have my own reasons for my non-belief.
I do not push my beliefs onto others, nor would I ever consider coercing anyone to believe anything other than they choose to believe.
I only offer details about my choice to those who ask.
I often find myself listening, intently, to various people's perspectives on God and the messages that the bible imply....rarely disputing their views unless I am asked, specifically, what my opinions are.
Mr. Wrong, my friend, I am somewhat offended by your view of atheists....for you inadvertently lumped me in with your stereotypical description of atheists!
I would be considered an athiest...if I HAVE to be labeled....and I don't do any of the things you say atheists do!
Seems a bit judgemental, in my opinion....
I still value your opinions and views....and, above all, your friendship!
I just needed to clarify to you that not all Atheists believe and behave the same, just as all Religious People don't all believe and behave the same way...and that I do not fit into your perception of what an Athiest is..
Oh...by the way, I do believe in Jesus....just not that he was spawned from a Supreme Being.
My common-sense-mind won't allow God to be real to me.
My loss, I guess....if I'm wrong.  !
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My apologies if I have offended you. Please know that this is not nor will ever be something that I will ever intend to do.
Please correct me if I am incorrect, but I do not believe that you are an atheist. My definition of a true atheist is one who does not believe in God or any supreme being and would certainly never offer a prayer to one.
But there really are no such people, at least in my view. The atheists I know of spend their days looking through the bible seeking falsehoods and loopholes, but they find none. These same atheists, particularly in the academic realm, embrace theories that attempt to disprove the existence of God, but fall short time and time again. And yet they continue in spite of clear evidence to the contrary.
No. This, to me, is not an atheist, but rather is an individual who is angry with God. The continuing efforts to disprove the existence of God is but a display of anger. What better way to show disapproval toward something than to deny it even exists? Need a current example? Here's one: We all know that muslims absolutely hate the Jews. In Iran, the theocracy there denies that the Holocaust that took place in Europe during WW2 ever even took place. We know that this is ludicrous due to overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And to continue to hold fast to this viewpoint is a form of insanity, in my estimation.
My overall point is that I do not find you to be a disbeliever of God's existence, but rather you are upset with God. And this is how I view today's atheists as well. I cannot fathom how one could possibly surmise that us, earth, and indeed, the universe itself, what with all it's seemingly infinite amount of space, the sun, the moon, the planets, and the innumerable stars, could all have come about by an accident.
I was once like you in that I, too, was angry with God. How can it possibly be that a loving and just God could ever allow not just myself, but, indeed, literally everyone else on earth to suffer some kind of pain, calamity, or injustice at some point in their lives, and for some, their entire lives.
This thinking gives rise to the age old question: Why do bad things happen to good people?
I heard a pastor give an excellent reply to this question by asking another question. And that question was what makes us think that we are good people? His overall point was that we have all fallen short of the glory of God by being sinners and that we don't deserve to have lives where nothing bad can ever happen to us. The only place we can ever be that is free of these earthly sorrows is beside God in heaven.
I believe our lives on this earth are a great blessing, but also that our existence here is a test and, indeed, that our lives are not our own. To enter heaven we must obey His word. Our reward for believing in Jesus Christ is eternal life. No earthly riches can we keep with us after death. Luke 9:25 says, "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?"
I believe that God tests us on this earth in accordance to who we are in His eyes, and not our eyes. These bad things that happen to us are all a part of this test. We have the choice to resent God for what befalls us or we can ask God for strength and guidance through tough times.
Have you ever heard that the greatest lie that the devil ever told was that he didn't even exist? Satan is the god of this world and he is the one that makes bad things happen. Satan's biggest deception is that he wants us to believe that since God has created everything, then it is God who is responsible for everything. God allows Satan to operate so as to make this world a test. You may not believe that you have committed sins so great as to have such burdens and hardships placed against you, but we all live in a collective, if you will. Our own sins, our neighbors' sins, combine to make up what is ultimately all of mans sins.
One of the results of these sins has resulted in God cursing the weather. We experience horrific storms, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, and the like. God has allowed Satan to bring these things about along with disease and so many other horrible things.
You consistently mention Sarah in your postings describing your woes in this world. I believe that if you ask God for strength and peace in caring for Sarah that He will give it to you. I also believe that inasmuch as you see Sarah suffer, you should take comfort in the fact her condition makes her innocent. Thus Sarah cannot sin and will enter heaven. And when she does enter heaven she will be made whole.
It has been a courageous effort to care for Sarah for all her years and you have suffered greatly for it. That act has proven you to have a selfless character. This also tells me that you also have the courage to call upon God for His mercy and not to resent Him.
If you are willing relieve yourself of the burden of being angry with God then my challenge to you would be to read the book of Job. The story of Job is the most powerful message God gives when it comes to being angry with God. Reading this book has only helped me and I know that the story of Job can help you, too.
Last edited by Mr. Wrong; 11-26-2015 at 03:32 AM..
Reason: addendum time.
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