Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong

There is a singular narrative. I imagine one would hard-pressed to find a professor in any public university advocating any other view than Darwinisn.

Although Darwinism itself is not a singular narrative. There are plenty of competing theories and paradigms. For instance Sociobiology and Evolutionary Psychology have proven to be quite divisive fields. The implications of differing theories and paradigms are quite strong too. Some leading towards Libertarian arguments while others are decidedly more Socialist.

Originally Posted by Crimson Fang

Although Darwinism itself is not a singular narrative. There are plenty of competing theories and paradigms. For instance Sociobiology and Evolutionary Psychology have proven to be quite divisive fields. The implications of differing theories and paradigms are quite strong too. Some leading towards Libertarian arguments while others are decidedly more Socialist.

I'm sure glad the truth is simple and I don't have filter out all that crap. Thank you, Jesus.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong

I'm sure glad the truth is simple and I don't have filter out all that crap. Thank you, Jesus.

This is not to say that there aren't people pushing in favour of science becoming a singular narrative. People who favour more of a Socibiologist/Evolutionary Psychologist understanding argue that those who oppose and criticize them are anti-science, anti-biology etc. We also find the same criticisms being aimed at university students, being blamed on their "Cultural Marxist" professors being anti-science and anti-biology.

A fair amount of it does get quite tedious.

https://youtu.be/DS1icEssOUM

How to be an Atheist by JP.

https://youtu.be/ga33t0NI6Fk

100 reasons why evolution is STUPID.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong

https://youtu.be/DS1icEssOUM

How to be an Atheist by JP.

I actually watched this video and found it rather humorous!
Why is it assumed that all Atheists ridicule Christians?
I am a non-believer, yet I respect that Christians have beliefs of their own...I am a "to each his own" kinda person.
I do admit that I have witnessed other Atheists talking rudely about Christians and their beliefs...but I am not one of those Atheists.
I respect the fact that not everyone thinks the same way that I do...
I only wish that others could return the favor.

---------- Post added 08-18-2017 at 02:21 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong

https://youtu.be/ga33t0NI6Fk

100 reasons why evolution is STUPID.

I rarely have the opportunity to stay focused on any video that is this long...though I did stay with it for about 20 minutes...
I hope to have the opportunity to watch the whole thing one day...I think the speaker is very engaging and easy to listen to.

I have definitely seen more rude Christians than I have rude Athiests by a vast majority.

Evolution is not independant of Christianity. Many people don't seem to understand this. As we wipe out vast numbers of creatures on this planet we are forcing animals to adapt or die. If we can turn a wolf into a Chihuahua over thousands of years or more, it's possible for other species to do the same. Mutations that are beneficial thrive. Cuter dogs are cared for more, so those breeds gets to reproduce.

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

I have definitely seen more rude Christians than I have rude Athiests by a vast majority.

Evolution is not independant of Christianity. Many people don't seem to understand this. As we wipe out vast numbers of creatures on this planet we are forcing animals to adapt or die. If we can turn a wolf into a Chihuahua over thousands of years or more, it's possible for other species to do the same. Mutations that are beneficial thrive. Cuter dogs are cared for more, so those breeds gets to reproduce.

The fact, or perceived fact, that you have encountered more rude Christians than rude atheists is merely is emotional observation based upon perception. People of all walks of life can be rude or pleasant. Only God knows what is in peoples' hearts.

---------- Post added 08-18-2017 at 10:36 AM ----------

◄ Ecclesiastes 3 ►

American King James Version

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

There seems to be this notion that Christians are expected to be human door mats. I am quite certain that if God intended that there be a season in which Christians were to be human door mats then it would have been made evident somewhere in Ecc. 3.

---------- Post added 08-18-2017 at 11:06 AM ----------

And evolution is absolutely independent of creation. Evolution has become the substitute or replacement for creation. If what you believe is true then both creation and evolution would be taught alongside one another in classrooms.

Here are a few decided differences:

The bible says God created.
Evolution says an explosion that came from nothing created everything. Ken Hovind astutely asks what exploded?

The bible teaches that the birds were created BEFORE the land animals.
Evolutionists say birds evolved from dinosaurs.

The bible teaches that GOD created man.
Evolution claims man evolved from a rock.

The bibles gives earth's age at about 6,000 years.
Evolution says the earth is 4.6 billion years old.

The bible teaches that all are descended from Adam and Eve.
Evolution teaches that your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grand daddy was a primate, monkey, chimpanzee, ape, etc.


By all means, include me among those who does not understand that evolution and creation are not independent from each other.

True mr wrong but an atheist doesn't tell me I'm going to burn in hell if I don't go to church and praise the Lord every day. Many Christians do.

It has become a replacement for creation because creation can not be proven. Evolution can. Creation is a theory.

The only evidence you ever provide seems to come from the same book that spawned several different religions over time. Not a very accurate book.

While dogs are the most genetically diverse species on earth, a dog will always produce another dog.

Think about the reason for why this is. It's to bring us joy. God wants us to be happy. If we want a guard dog, we can breed one like a German Shepherd, Doberman, or Rottweiler. If we want a hunting dog then we can have one. And any dog in between from ugly to cute.

---------- Post added 08-18-2017 at 11:23 AM ----------

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

True mr wrong but an atheist doesn't tell me I'm going to burn in hell if I don't go to church and praise the Lord every day. Many Christians do.

It has become a replacement for creation because creation can not be proven. Evolution can. Creation is a theory.

The only evidence you ever provide seems to come from the same book that spawned several different religions over time. Not a very accurate book.

Great! You have proven evolution! Where is missing link? Where are the bones of the fish man or the bird man?

---------- Post added 08-18-2017 at 11:28 AM ----------

The bible has never been proven inaccurate. Scriptures have certainly been misinterpreted, misapplied, and not rightly divided, but has never been proven false in any way.

Well we have bone and DNA evidence of Neanderthals. Did God create them beside humans? Where is their mention in the bible and why do they pre-date the bible?
Speaking of dates, why is there so many things older than the bible by millions of years?
You can use the sea floor almost like a dating system if you wanted.

The bible is not correct if it is poorly interpreted. Even the parts I have looked into which condemn gays, does not in fact mention gays if you look into the root of the word. People manipulate others with this book.

But of course the world was flat for a long time too because we couldn't prove otherwise. Doesn't make it true.

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

Well we have bone and DNA evidence of Neanderthals. Did God create them beside humans? Where is their mention in the bible and why do they pre-date the bible?
Speaking of dates, why is there so many things older than the bible by millions of years?
You can use the sea floor almost like a dating system if you wanted.

The bible is not correct if it is poorly interpreted. Even the parts I have looked into which condemn gays, does not in fact mention gays if you look into the root of the word. People manipulate others with this book.

But of course the world was flat for a long time too because we couldn't prove otherwise. Doesn't make it true.

If you watch the entire video a lot on the subject of how objects are dated is explained. I know it's a long video, but it covers a lot of ground in a thorough manner. And if you still wish to cling to the religion that is evolution then you may.

About neanderthals, these peoples look no different than indigenous natives found around the world, in my opinion. There are modern people who resemble neanderthals, too. Check out a photo of Sons of Anarchy star Ron Perlman.

I've already given you scripture to look at concerning homosexuals. If what you read doesn't convince you that God hates homosexual behavior then there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

Lastly, the earth remains flat. NASA is a professional hoaxing operation. In 2006, NASA came out and admitted they "lost" tapes of the moon landing. How does that happen? Were the tapes rented to Netflix and never returned?

One of history's biggest achievements and NASA, which is run by top astrophysicists, astronomers, multi-discipline engineers, and brilliant mathematicians who are Ph.D's, somehow manage to lose tapes of the moon landing. We are being lied to.

More recently, NASA has announced that they also "lost" the technology that enabled astronauts to get to the moon. WHAT???? How do you lose technology? Fire is considered to be technology. Can that be lost, too?

And as long as we are losing technologies, let's go ahead and lose the technology of nuclear weapons.

I have looked at the hebrew roots of those words personally and it does not explicitly mention homosexuality. It seems to correctly translate to "Unnatural" or similar. Which given homosexuality EXISTS IN NATURE, it is not unnatural.

As for the lost tapes. To save money Nasa was instructed to use old tapes and it was recorded over much like you would record over a wedding video. You realize it after it's too late. if you really think the earth is flat, you really need to learn more science. The horizon itself proves the curve of the planet.

It is possible the "lost" technology is simply that it is not up to code and can no longer be used. We have improved a lot, and we are working to make flight safer, so the older flights would no longer work.
Also they probably want people to stop asking them to go back to the moon.

As for how objects are dated, there are a lot of different ways.
But there is one form of dating that you can't disprove. Sediment. While it does not give us an exact dating system it does allow us to see about how much sediment is produced over a course of time. We can use them like rings of a tree. A layer of ash, a layer of clay, a layer of sand. It tells us what it was like in the past. Sure it's not accurate but given how many layers there are, many layers pre-date us.

Are you also assuming that dinosaurs were on the Ark? Or were those a hoax too? Was the Titanoboa a hoax?
Speaking of the ark. Lets add all these incredible beasts on to it. That snake was probably about 40 ft. Is there room? What about the T-Rex, room for that too?

Then there are the other life forms we have found. Some can't survive in the places they were found yet there they lived.

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

I have looked at the hebrew roots of those words personally and it does not explicitly mention homosexuality. It seems to correctly translate to "Unnatural" or similar. Which given homosexuality EXISTS IN NATURE, it is not unnatural.

As for the lost tapes. To save money Nasa was instructed to use old tapes and it was recorded over much like you would record over a wedding video. You realize it after it's too late. if you really think the earth is flat, you really need to learn more science. The horizon itself proves the curve of the planet.

It is possible the "lost" technology is simply that it is not up to code and can no longer be used. We have improved a lot, and we are working to make flight safer, so the older flights would no longer work.
Also they probably want people to stop asking them to go back to the moon.

As for how objects are dated, there are a lot of different ways.
But there is one form of dating that you can't disprove. Sediment. While it does not give us an exact dating system it does allow us to see about how much sediment is produced over a course of time. We can use them like rings of a tree. A layer of ash, a layer of clay, a layer of sand. It tells us what it was like in the past. Sure it's not accurate but given how many layers there are, many layers pre-date us.

Are you also assuming that dinosaurs were on the Ark? Or were those a hoax too? Was the Titanoboa a hoax?
Speaking of the ark. Lets add all these incredible beasts on to it. That snake was probably about 40 ft. Is there room? What about the T-Rex, room for that too?

Then there are the other life forms we have found. Some can't survive in the places they were found yet there they lived.

Obviously, you have not watched the video I posted. I wish you would. And again, I promise that after you see this video you may feel free to remain steadfast in your religion of scientism.

If anything, the horizon proves easily you are viewing a flat plane as the horizon always rises to eye level no matter at what height you are viewing from. Also, the horizon never curves downward from the right or left side. It remains level at 360°.

The globeheads like to point out that the horizon indicates the earth is spherical because of what is actually a limitation of one's own vision. Standing at ground level the human eye can only see out at 10 miles on a clear weather day. You will note that weathet reports for a clear day will give a maximum visibility range of 10 miles.

Then the globehead will state that a ship sailing away from the shore will disappear hull first over the horizon proving the globe earth. Not so fast, Bucko! While a ship that is 10 miles away appears to disappear from view hull first, a pair of binoculars, a powerful camera, or telescope, will bring that ship back into view. Hull and all.

I will locate a video on this subject and post it here. Hopefully, I can find one that isn't too terribly long.

---------- Post added 08-21-2017 at 10:41 PM ----------

And since there are no dinosaurs roaming around they obviously didn't make it onto Noah's Ark.

---------- Post added 08-21-2017 at 10:55 PM ----------

https://youtu.be/ZCbdneAe2gk

---------- Post added 08-21-2017 at 11:06 PM ----------

https://youtu.be/z0WbC4PaQks

---------- Post added 08-21-2017 at 11:32 PM ----------

https://youtu.be/vzeUhc8xQ3U

---------- Post added 08-22-2017 at 12:12 AM ----------

https://youtu.be/cxhNeC8rNg8

This video is from jeranism's nemesis, Reds Rhetoric, who is always so eloquent in response to jeranism's prior video I posted above. My take on both videos is that while a mirage is prevalent, a telescope would bring the sailboat that Reds Rhetoric says is behind the horizon into full view. There's no way that I can watch the above video and be able to discern precisely where the waterline is in relation to the sailboat as the video quality is too poor to accurately gauge that. If you recall the video image of the pedestrians walking on the road there was a man's shins and feet that were not visable due to a mirage effect. Obviously this man was not behind the horizon and by the same effects, neither were these ships.

If you stay to see the end of Reds Rhetoric video, you see an airliner flying over a flat horizon. This is amusing to me as Reds Rhetoric was too busy obsessing over profane insults than damning details.

---------- Post added 08-22-2017 at 12:48 AM ----------

Another question I have concerning the scene with the jet is that the sun, that is supposed to be 93 million miles away, 109 times larger than the earth, can be seen under this jet airliner beneath the clouds and not above the clouds as one might expect.

I don't follow the "religion" of scientism. I follow the path of logic and realistic expectation. Science has given be evidence, god has not.

If you look at the design of every single other planet in our solar system, not one of them is flat. If you look at the way water droplets form in space, they make spheres. Our planet would be unique in the galaxy. If there is no physical evidence of god, then god can not defy science. Otherwise we would be able to see and/or measure him.
Of course you can spew nonsense about how every other planet is flat and are all facing us because we are special, but I have personally viewed planets spinning.

But many of those dinosaurs were sea bearing creatures. Where did those go?

I like that first video you share because in every scene where the curvature is visible they conveniently don't provide a straight light on it to show the lack of a curve. Additionally... this is a yoga teacher. He does not hold any reputable background which gives me any reason to believe what he says.

I stopped on the second one after he began talking about the curve of the planet changing. Yes, it does. With my knowledge of engineering and design I have done exactly this with a circle. The closer you zoom in the smaller the curve gets. Zoom in far enough and it appears flat.

The third video I'm not going to bother wasting my time watching. It's already been made clear you don't understand what you're saying and you're just googling random videos.

Regarding the sun. Let me give you the Solar Eclipse as an example. If you looked at the sun as is in the sky despite 90% coverage I could not see the moon. The light from the sun is visible in the shape of a ball still. However placing the correct glasses on I can see just a small sliver of the sun.

Still you have given me yoga teachers and conspiracy theorists with no actual background.

Also, with a flat earth, what is underneath it? If we dig a hole through the planet then what? What's on the other side? While we are on that topic, If the earth is so flat, explain to me why it gets hotter the deeper you dig.

Edit - I also would like to point out just how big of frauds flat earthers are. They are 100% adamant that the earth has no curve whatsoever no matter how high you get. But if you take a flat earth, it WILL actually have a curve. Based on how the curve moves we can determine the shape of the planet. Lets assume for a second it's a circle as many of your videos claim. This circle of theirs defies mathematical logic and is an impossible shape to produce.

The Mythbusters video is a very good example. If you are at sea level, the earth appears flat. Sure. If you go on to a plane on this flat earth the earth will have a very small curve to it. This is because you are viewing a circle from farther away and this is causing the circle to be smaller, and a smaller circle has sharper curves.

Then we come to the basics of the math. Math is not a science, it is a universal language. 1+1 will always be 2. This makes it the most reliable source of accuracy. This language also includes geometry.

Now the interesting part here is that this doesn't disprove a flat earth. It however does debunk the credibility of 99% of flat earthers because the majority all bring up the curve of the earth.
If you want to share a video of someone saying the earth is flat, bring me a mathematician.

Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.

Nikola Tesla

In the videos I posted, there is only a flat horizon. If the earth had curvature then this would be evidenced by the right and left ends of this horizon line bending downwards. In videos where there is a curve there is lens distortion. The Mythbusters video is a perfect example of this. It is pointed out in the video in several times where the "curve of the earth can be seen to bend or flex according to the motion of the camera. Again, this is lens distortion.

And all the while lens distortion is being displayed, a flat line horizon can easily be seen behind Adam. Why would one camera show a curve and another camera a flat line? Clearly, something doesn't jive. As noted in the Mythbusters video, the lens distortion shows only an aerial view of California at 65,000+ feet with a pronounced curve. The narrator describes this as being "Planet California" since only the Bay Area and it's surroundings are visible. Alleged photos of earth by NASA (just missing a "T") show roughly the same angle of curvature as in the Mythbusters video yet the entire ball earth is displayed while only Planet California can be seen. This is your fraud.

---------- Post added 08-28-2017 at 01:21 AM ----------

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.

Carl Sagan

Billions and billions. As someone who watched Carl's videos in school, I can attest and affirm that Carl Sagan did utter the words "Billions and billions" quite often. Thought you should know.

At this height, your FLAT EARTH has a curve. :)

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

At this height, your FLAT EARTH has a curve. :)

What you are presenting is a circle. And a circle does not a ball make.

No, but stick yourself in the middle of that circle and stand upon a mountain, and what you will see is a curve of a horizon.

So a flat earth would have a curved horizon, making the primary proof of a flat earth false.

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

No, but stick yourself in the middle of that circle and stand upon a mountain, and what you will see is a curve of a horizon.

So a flat earth would have a curved horizon, making the primary proof of a flat earth false.

The horizon never curves. It is always a flat line. If we lived on a ball earth, then the edges of the horizon would curve downward to the left and right as we look in either direction.

Typically, we see photos of what appears to be a horizon with a curvature, but this is due to lens distortion. This very same lens distortion can even cause the horizon to appear concave which we both know is not true.

---------- Post added 09-03-2017 at 04:54 PM ----------

https://youtu.be/lkPoE-D6I3k

NASA Q and A can be so...confusing. Notice how often the actornot doing most of the talking looks up and to the right.

---------- Post added 09-03-2017 at 07:55 PM ----------

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

A most fitting scripture for this topic.

Yes, but if you take into account being above sea level, like say in a plane, there will be a curve, because if the earth's horizon was flat from every angle, it would be physically impossible. As you can see with the circle, if you get far enough away, it becomes curved. So just because you can not see the curve with the naked eye does not say it's not there. Because even with a FLAT earth, it will be curved at varying degrees the farther you go above sea level.

That isn't science. That is math, which is a universal language. Basic math at that. You can do this experiment with a plate.

As for the looking to the left, it's possible there are other people in the room. I do exactly that if there is someone to my left. But really, more links to more things that do not have credibility.
How do flat earthers explain the space station, which i have seen with my own eyes before, and have seen high def pictures as well from the eclipse.
Also, what is a flat earther's theory on the fact that not only can we determine the distance the moon is from the earth with a laser, but there is a MIRROR on the moon which reflects the laser back to earth. Who put that there I wonder.

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

Yes, but if you take into account being above sea level, like say in a plane, there will be a curve, because if the earth's horizon was flat from every angle, it would be physically impossible. As you can see with the circle, if you get far enough away, it becomes curved. So just because you can not see the curve with the naked eye does not say it's not there. Because even with a FLAT earth, it will be curved at varying degrees the farther you go above sea level.

That isn't science. That is math, which is a universal language. Basic math at that. You can do this experiment with a plate.

As for the looking to the left, it's possible there are other people in the room. I do exactly that if there is someone to my left. But really, more links to more things that do not have credibility.
How do flat earthers explain the space station, which i have seen with my own eyes before, and have seen high def pictures as well from the eclipse.
Also, what is a flat earther's theory on the fact that not only can we determine the distance the moon is from the earth with a laser, but there is a MIRROR on the moon which reflects the laser back to earth. Who put that there I wonder.

I am here to tell you that I have flown on two intercontinental flights and several transcontinental flights and the horizon remains flat. Lay your money down and fly from SeaTac airport to North Carolina and tell me when you see the earth's curvature.

https://youtu.be/UrmHMpyIcdY

How does something come from nothing?

---------- Post added 09-03-2017 at 08:33 PM ----------

There is no mirror on the moon because man can't get to the moon.

So then by default god came from nothing and defies the logic of your statement because he is "something"


A photo from a flat earther. Placing a line you can clearly see the curve. Explain that curve. You might have to zoom in the earth is pretty big so the curve is small. Of course, the flat earther never bothered to check if it was actually there or not first.

Originally Posted by The Wandering Poet

So then by default god came from nothing and defies the logic of your statement because he is "something"


A photo from a flat earther. Placing a line you can clearly see the curve. Explain that curve. You might have to zoom in the earth is pretty big so the curve is small. Of course, the flat earther never bothered to check if it was actually there or not first.

God is eternal. God always was and always will be. As an eternal God, He exists outside of time. You can travel as far back in time as you wish and God would be there to greet you. We exist in a physical realm while God exists in a spiritual realm. We humans can't wrap our brains around this because, to be frank, we only use 1/16 of our brain (last I heard). Science does not yet even know where thoughts come from or everything that goes on in our brain. This is no accident.

I will freely admit it does require faith to believe in the existence of God, but it also requires faith to believe in the Theory of Evolution. You believe that something (everything) came from nothing. Where did the energy that caused this Big Bang come? Intellectually honest scientists recognize there is a higher power while the Tier 2 scientists do not. To be clear, I believe in the God of the bible that has always existed and believing in the Big Bang requires believing that something (everything) came from nothing. If you ask me, it requires more faith to believe in the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory than it does to believe in a creator.

The only fault I can see with the image you posted is that the red line is positioned at a tilt with the angle pointing downward to the photo's right. The horizon itself has no discernible curve upwards or downwards than I can distinguish.

About the ISS: If you visit Wikipedia and read about the temperatures of the thermosphere layer of atmosphere, you find that this is the layer of atmosphere the ISS is orbiting. The temperature is stated to exceed 2000° C. Then you go on to read that this temperature would not be felt since gases at that altitude are so dissipated. The question I then had was how is that temperature measured if no heat can be transferred?

Turns out I wasn't alone in asking this question.

https://youtu.be/wdizpQQMtnY

---------- Post added 09-04-2017 at 01:52 AM ----------

I like this video, too, about flight travel between airports on our great and fantastic spinning ball we call earth.

https://youtu.be/5kYekbGBzEY

Actually, that has been disproved, and it was never 1/16th. We use 100% of our brain. We've learned this through doing brain scans.
You can detect the areas that are active and in use.

Scientists didn't know most things before. We only knew of a handful of elements. We've taken great bounds in progress in things previously claimed to be the work of god are now the work of science, because they can be proven, and replicated in studies.

Evolution can be seen. There are numerous signs such as fossils and the like. If a genetic defect allows something to survive better than the rest, it will flourish, it will breed more, and it will become a common trait. Span this over an extended period of time and you have a new species. But evolution is more complex than that because the previous generation is near identical.
However we can see examples of this through selective breeding where something like a wolf can be boiled down to a tiny chihuahua. Those did not exist in nature.

Then perhaps you need to look closer. The line itself was done as an exact flat line. There is no curve to my line. The chance is a very small curve. Look at the blue line over the planet. As you get closer to the line on both sides the distance from the line gets smaller.

I like how that link speaks of "Fact trumps theory"... God is a theory. There are no facts to back this up. Still waiting on those.
It's pretty clear that you're never going to link me to an actual scientist. There has to be one legitimate scientist who you can link me to who I can reference their credibility. Niel Degrasse Tyson himself said there are high level scientists who believe in god. Yet you're referencing people with no science background. They aren't credible and are a waste of my time to watch.

As for bill nye, there's been a lot of controversy around him and I haven't looked into it yet, but they are saying he is "stuck in the old ways". Much like a religious individual actually. They are stunted by their own beliefs when they could be so much more.