Hello, Hello! Before I jump into typing up what I can from memory my partially done persuasive essay on this subject I want to lay down a few ground rules.

-Debate Knowledgeably. I don't want to here people making assumtions or inferences based solely on opinion.

-No bashing. That means no using bad language or insulting another person for their opinion.

-PLEASE give opinions! I would really like to hear both the side in disbelief of the issue and those acknowledging the issue!

Last year the movie Idiocracy was released. The movie set 500 years in the future, was a comedy about how intelligence had declined to the point that and average Joe, frozen for an experiment, wakes up in a world so stupid he is now considered a genius. The sad truth, however, is that the declining intelligence in the U.S. is a very real problem.

Since the 1970's, school work in the 12th grade has gradually declined to rudimentary levels. Not only has our school work declined but our proficiency on standardized tests has plateaued. While other countries continue to climb in proficiency in academics, our country continues to fall behind.

The most depressing part of this issue is that the average American's interests have nothing to do with solving national issues or learning about what is happening in the world. Instead they are obsessed with where to bury Ana Nicole Smith or reading about what Britney Spears has done next. The blame of the issue does not solely belong to American Education Systems but to the American lifestyle as well.

Evidence of our declining intelligence can be found in the lack of qualified professionals. An article by CBIA News states, "In a poll of....HR conducted by the Society for Human Resource Professionals, 43% said they hired foreign nationals due to lack of U.S. candidates with the necessary skills and the necessary degrees." What this tells us is that a great deal of the U.S. population is not getting the skills to work in their desired job, and someone in another country is. In another poll from human resource management, found in the article (forgive me I can't remember) "More than 70% said recently hired high school students where found to be deficient in academic skills such as spelling, grammar, and written communications..." This means that students are not getting the necessary skills in school. Ultimately what this means is that companies will move to where the skilled professionals are.


((I will finish the essay and change things When I have my essay in front of me.... this is hard ;.; ))

I don't believe that you can necessarily say that intelligence is dropping--but we are simply more aware of how low the national intelligence and education rate is and has always been.

People are not getting more stupid, education is getting more lax. You are only as smart as your school trains you to be and if education is substandard compared to the world, then we are going to appear to be substandard in intelligence to the world.

But intelligence is not only based on what we know and how we apply it but also how much we are capable of learning and applying. We have learned so much about the human brain and learning and yet our current educational system only seeks to pass students on to the next grade, not ensure that they are at a certain level.

The US does not have proficiency tests like other countries do, our standardized testing is about seeing how well our teachers do, not to see how much our students know. If a school does not meet the national average, the administration cracks down on the teachers to better prepare them for the test, not for the real world.

The reason that people apply for jobs they don't have the skills for is the "training position" has been all but abolished in most fields. It's very difficult to find an entry level position that will pay for pricey loans, rent and probably an impending marriage. Training positions also mean a company needs to hire someone with no experience--something most companies try not to do at all costs. So instead we see college graduates floundering around with no experience because no one told them to do internships while they were in college. An internship they probably have no time for and won't pay a dime.

There are so many factors playing into this one issue that's it's difficult to make an argument that addresses them all without writting an essay. xD

First off, you have intelligent points and I must commend you for appearing willing to hear both sides of the proverbial coin.

However, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here.

"In a poll of....HR conducted by the Society for Human Resource Professionals, 43% said they hired foreign nationals due to lack of U.S. candidates with the necessary skills and the necessary degrees."

These human resource professionals who were polled undoubtedly work for huge corporations and national chains. I would be willing to be that some of the 43% who claimed to hire foreign nationals for jobs actually hired them not due to the decline of qualified American applicants, but for their willingness to work for a much lower wages than citizens of the United States.

And if America is so on the decline in terms of intelligence how do you explain my high school, in the heart of Las Vegas' 'ghetto' graduating eleven valedictorians, all with perfect 4.5 GPA's in honors and advanced placement courses?

On that same track, how do you explain Ivy League schools turning away some of these valedictorians? Should they not have researchers on their staffs frantically showing these numbers to their deans of admission in hopes to preserve the intellegence of America?

If we're so underqualified, a part of which includes education, how can so many colleges across our nation be so full of students that they must turn away otherwise qualified applicants? Sure, not all of those students will graduate, for whatever reason, but let's just say half of them apply themselves half as diligently as they did in high school as they train for the 'real world' would that not leave them prepared enough for most entry-level jobs? Would such devotion and drive not allow them to rise through the ranks in whatever corporation they choose?

The reason that people apply for jobs they don't have the skills for is the "training position" has been all but abolished in most fields. It's very difficult to find an entry level position that will pay for pricey loans, rent and probably an impending marriage.

Another good point for why 43% of those human resource managers chose to hire "foreign nationals."

You both have good points. thank you very much for showing me the argument for the side against the issue. Your helping me a lot with my assignment. However I did notice there is no factual based information or sources from articles or statistics. Though I really don't believe these prove anything, they make your argument look much more credible.

Such as the actual information on the poll. There may have been a total of 43% which said there were was a lack of qualified candidates but 32% said they didn't even know the person they hired was a foreign national. It's great when you manipulate information to prove your point. However I'm seeing a lack of information in both of your posts and just inferences.

I could make up some statistics if you like. =) But since I have personal experience in the matter... no.

I'm not writting a research paper, I'm making a stance in a debate. Everything I said is highly publicized general knowledge. Turn on the news and you'll hear basically everything I just said.

Edit: And professional experience. Oh, and a degree in psychology with a focus in development. Lol. And a solid background in research, focused specifically on education practices. But you didn't ask me for my credentials. ;)

You're right, I didn't quote any sources from articles or statistics, but you didn't provide a link to your source (as you would in a bibliography) so I didn't find it particularly worthy.

And like Stiletto said, we're not the ones writing research papers. I'm supporting my side of the debate with logic and readable information.

That's fine with me... and No i didn't provide a link because I do not have my paper in front of me and a link is much harder to remember than what I wrote myself. However when I have these things with me I would be more than happy to provide Links to my sources of information, however, I can not provide a link to the book I am reading as a source. I could tell you the name which i do remember but not the author. It's called The World is Flat. I highly recommend the book because he covers the declining intelligence issue to prove a point to the flattening of the economic world.

[edit] Stilettolover: Often times to prove a stance in a debate it is required to have credible sources of information as references in your argument. I do not require it. I was only asking to see if you do have it. It, again, would help me a lot with my assignment. Thank you for your opinion on the topic very much though. Don't think I didn't appreciate it.

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, "Enrollment in degree-granting institutions increased by 17 percent between 1984 and 1994. Between 1994 and 2004, enrollment increased at a faster rate (21 percent), from 14.3 million to 17.3 million."

If American intelligence is declining, why is college enrollment in our colleges increasing?

An increase in college in enrollment... for me to make a credible argument on the matter I would need to research why it's happening... But from my personal experience. My boyfriend is a huge procrastinator, has terribly disorganized thoughts which makes for terrible essays, and no real plans or goals in life as of yet. Yet some how he got into UC Davis. Which is supposed to be in the top 15 of the most prestigious public colleges in California. Possibly enrollment is increasing due to lackadaisical judgment on college applications, and the acceptance of almost everyone.

Also.... a degree-granting institution includes vocational education schooling of which has no requirement to enroll in except a G.E.D. or a high school diploma.

Just because someone procrastinates does not mean that they are not smart enough or did not do well in school. Also, you don't have to write essays well to succeed in life or be considered intelligent. Most people I know who are not as proficient at writing are amazing in other subjects. My friend Siul, for instance, is in an extended Eng 102 class (English 101 over two semesters instead of one) as a freshman, but he's in Math 458 and earning A's. Also, having 'no plans or goals' does not mean you are unintelligent but, most likely that you haven't settled on a path because you're just discovering what you most enjoy doing. And I would also have to disagree with your possible explanation of colleges 'accepting everyone.' Look up the acceptance rates of the best colleges in the United States, and also the type of applicants they recieve. All have amazing high school records, far from all are accepted.

And to your second point; perhaps it does, but that's all you truly need to be accepted into traditional 4-year colleges. Your academic success and outside involvement in the community (volunteering, internships, etc.) will determine the prestige of the college that you are accepted into, but don't you believe that the "better" vocational schools looks for more qualified and experienced applicants as well? And attending a vocational or technical school instead of a more traditional after high school setting does not mean you are less intelligent. It just proves that you are seeking the knowledge to further yourself in the career path you choose.

And, since you like facts and fiqures:

According to the Stanford University website (I chose a California college as you seem familar with them) the incoming freshman class will have an admit rate of 11%.

They certainly do not accept everyone.

Edit: And just in case admission increases are not enough to shake up your decline of American intelligence idea, here are graduation rates of UC Davis undergraduate students. This graph was found on the UC Davis website and shows a higher percentage of incoming freshman graduating in 2000 than in 1993, and a higher percentage of students graduated within four years than in the previous date.

-.- My boyfriend has less than a C average in college and is taking mostly frosh seminar classes.....

The ability to read, and write with out terrible grammatical errors or spelling errors as well having a proficiency in written communications should play a huge part in your ability to succeed which is what a lot of the citizens in this country are lacking... Except now there are reality T.V. shows that will let them live up to their narcissistic expectations of becoming famous. This country IS dumbing down, however, the issue is hard too see unless you see it's connections with how Americans live their lives. I hardly think that reading about other people's lives in a gossip column is important reading yet for some odd reason everyone wants to hear about Britney Spears. As well as the Narcissism and the lack of caring about keeping your body healthy with a healthy diet and exercise. Really everything about this country is going greatly down hill and not acknowledging that it IS happening with only make it steep further. ((I'm sorry for going off on a rant with no facts but that's my opinion.))

Stanford is a private university and has had to tighten it's enrollment due to the Govenator's law that you have to transfer into a four year college if you plan to go to one... The law doesn't apply to Private Universities. The law has since been relaxed.

So just because your boyfriend earns poor grades in a college environment he's less intelligent? Show me the correlation between grades and intelligence.

Less intelligent than whom?
What is American intelligence declining from?
From what year has the decline started?
Give me those facts and fiqures.

And I don't understand your comments about Stanford.
Are you now contradicting yourself saying that the Governor shouldn't have made the college 'tighten its enrollment' while earlier you said it was bad that they let everyone in?
Please explain.

If it seems like my post doesn't address much of yours, its because I'm following your format. I do not believe that you address many of my points in your subsequent posts, even though I specifically went through each line of your side of the debate.

Your argument seems biased. You're trying to suggest that because we are nosey we are unintelligent? All I'm hearing is "celebrities are stupid" from your argument.

Should we all be reading The Wall Stree Journal and watching MSNBC all day?

Is there something wrong with enjoying reality television? Is there something wrong with being narcissistic?

I'd also like to point out the increase in television shows that focus on science, criminal justice and medicine. The accuracy in which these shows portray science is educational in and of itself.

What people do and how intelligent people are are two different things.

There is what we do and there is what we are capable of.

We're not dumbing down--there are just too many people. Our educational system is overwhelmed.

Do we need to crack down on our educational system? Yes. Does that mean that we're getting less intelligent? NO. It means the educational system has gotten lax. Blame Bush's "No Child Left Behind" Act.

*lol* I read the title and like, coffee went up my nose. XD Decline of Intelligence in the US? Yeah...that was like..beyond yesterday's news. That's like, last year's news yo. :) Hehehe. <3

Of course people today are smarter than people 50 years ago. That is true across almost any country. It would be really, really stupidly sad if it weren't. X3 But...yeeeah..US educational system...harhar. XD

..... -.- thank you for that information.....

I have no facts or figures to back this up- this is just my personal experience working at a University -

Students that are coming through right now expect to have grades handed to them. They believe that since they are paying for this education they should do well - regardless of how much work they put into it.

This is not to say that all students are like that - generally I'm only going to see the bad students who just want to get the degree and get out. It does amaze me how many people think they can get a degree in business without a basic understanding of math.

Too often now I see admission standards and curriculum being dumbed down because student's can't handle them, they're not learning the material in high school anymore. Our business school had to drop one of it's statistics courses that was required of business majors because too many of the students couldn't graduate on time.

I seriously worry that we spend so much time worrying about hurting someone's feelings that we forget to actually educate them, students have this false sense of reality and how the world works - sometimes no matter how hard you try you're just not going to be smart enough. When you have a job sometimes trying your best isn't going to be enough to keep you employed - and sometimes you have to do things you don't enjoy or want to.

gha . . . now I sound like a cranky old person.

Let me just finish up by saying that of the last 15 PhD students that we have had in my department only 4 of them were American.

Originally Posted by stilettolover

Do we need to crack down on our educational system? Yes. Does that mean that we're getting less intelligent? NO. It means the educational system has gotten lax. Blame Bush's "No Child Left Behind" Act.

Instead of teaching people and making them 'well rounded' we are teaching to the tests so they can pass and nothing else.

One of the problems is our testing system - another is bigger than that.

I was in school to be a teacher and one of the subjects I would have to teach as an elementary school teacher is fractions. I do not understand fractions, but as a teacher I would be required to teach them. This means that I would be trying to teach something I don't get, so my student's won't really get it, then these students go on and one of them may become a teacher who has to teach something they really don't understand - and so the problem perpetuates its-self.

Thank you! Some one who understand what I'm trying to say!

As for why kids expect grades handed to them is due to the narcissism in this country. And YES Narcissism IS a bad thing. There have been studies that show it is detrimental to our developement in growing up. A lot of today's generation believes that things should be handed to them and that it's never enough.

A lot of the problem with narcissism is because of parents.

They raise their children to be the center of the universe - and eventually that child will believe that they are the center of the universe. There have actually been a few reports recently on KYW about the complete narcissism of the generation coming up.

I get some kids that come through like "Do you know who I am" and I tell them - no, and it really doesn't matter because the rules still apply to you.

They don't like me for that - they think because I'm young they can get away with stuff - but if anything I'm less sympathetic than the older women because I just went through all this and did it without 'favors' AKA CHEATING!

One of my biggest shpeals(sp?) about the declining intelligence has to do with how it all starts in the home!

It's refeshing to hear someone who see's what see about what's going on in the U.S.

It may not be that we're getting less intelligent based on how we have more knowledge on subject older generations didn't have. But our generation doesn't apply themselves or strive for better. We want everything handed to us because we THINK we already know everything.

On the subject of the rise in college enrollment: That could be because nowadays it's not so easy to get a decent job without a degree. Way back when, there were plenty of good jobs available that you could get right out of high school. As it becomes more necessary to go to college, more people apply.

On the subject of narcissism: Yes, there is a rise in narcissism, and yes, it has negative effects. Children are constantly being told they're "special," and the truth is, if everyone's special, nobody is. Everyone's different/unique, yes, but to say that everyone is exceptional is completely irrational. Kids who are led to believe that there's truly something "special" about them expect everyone else to think the same of them, and they'll probably end up pissing off a lot of people, having their dreams ruthlessly shattered by reality, or both. Just my two cents.

Part of the problem is the 'No children left behind' act. It keeps lowering the standards so the not so smart kids will fit in with it. All of the public schools have the same standards so.. unless your parent's want to spend a lot of money on private schools a smart kid in public school pretty much has to ride the wave and there's a good chance they won't reach their potential.

Also this act is putting more and more pressure on schools and teachers to get their students to pass these states tests.. soon enough the only thing kids are studying is stuff that's going to be on these tests. Not random things that make learning fun for kids. Schools are taking away recess so that children can spend more time studying, preparing for these tests. I mean WTF kids need exercise too!! *that's another topic though*

The education system needs to rethink the way they are going about raising education standards, because it's simply not working.