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Ayumui
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06-10-2007, 10:41 PM
Sasha- I lost my eye patch ;__; Sorry.
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Croon
(^._.^)ノ
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06-11-2007, 12:12 AM
o:
*pokes*
Ayew?
8'D
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Ayumui
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06-11-2007, 12:41 AM
*pokes* Hey XD Got back from biking.
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Croon
(^._.^)ノ
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06-11-2007, 12:47 AM
xDDDDDDDDD
Motorcycle, or...?
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
<3333333
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Kyon
Dead Account Holder
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06-11-2007, 01:01 AM
O: Helloooo.
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Croon
(^._.^)ノ
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06-11-2007, 01:46 AM
o: !!!
Hai?
o:
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Kyon
Dead Account Holder
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06-11-2007, 02:36 AM
Holy cow, I am tired. ._. I think I'm about to go to bed soon.
But anyways, I love-love-love Punk Lolita. I actually base my style on it. I don't dress like it 24/7 or even much at all. Only when I go out in public. So, I doubt I'd be considered Punk Lolita. ]:
But I also don't have any money to buy clothes, so I kind of have to make due with what I have for now. v_v
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Ayumui
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06-11-2007, 03:21 PM
Croon- No, I'm not that cool >>;;; I have a red mountain bike with a ringy bell that doesn't work XD
Kyon- *3* Punk loli is love! XD The same thing kinda goes for me. I just have to wear a petti with everything, loli or not.
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Kyon
Dead Account Holder
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06-11-2007, 04:07 PM
Yessss. I love it. I'm really into American and British Punk, and I love cute things too. So, I think it's the greatest. :'D
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Ayumui
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06-11-2007, 04:16 PM
XD I'm not a big fan of punk (not heavy enough for me), just the Japanese twist on the fashion.
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Kyon
Dead Account Holder
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06-11-2007, 04:22 PM
Ahh, it's perfect for me. XD.
The fashion is very awesome though. x3
I think I'm gonna search for some online stores now OO:
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Croon
(^._.^)ノ
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06-11-2007, 04:48 PM
AYEWWWWWWWW???
DD':
<33?
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Ayumui
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06-11-2007, 07:12 PM
I'm here, Croon!
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Croon
(^._.^)ノ
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06-11-2007, 07:26 PM
*NEEDSTOGETASHOWER*
*SHOT.*
xoX;;;
I've spent....almost ALL this morning, CGing.
x'D;;;
...
xox
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Ayumui
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06-11-2007, 07:37 PM
Whoa O__O;;;
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Croon
(^._.^)ノ
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06-11-2007, 07:45 PM
Well, actually, more like 3 hours...But hey.
x'D;;;;;
It FELT like forever.
@[email protected];;;
Wanna see the Breedable that I made?
8'D;;;;;
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Celria
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06-11-2007, 07:50 PM
Just as a something to say on topic:
I'm a feminist. If I had to define myself this is one word I'd use, and I'd certainly put it before "Interested in lolita fashion"
As such, I sometimes have issues with lolita. How can I squee over how pretty the lolita girls are in their puffy pink outfits, and lovely lace, but at the same time hold the views that little girls should not be put in puffy pink, and pretty lace, because that enforces gender roles I don't agree with.
I don't think women should be cute. I don't think women should be pretty. I don't like the idea of judging a woman on her appearance at all. Hell, I'm one of those feminists who doesn't shave her legs or armpits.
Liking lolita seems... well...
It makes me feel like a hypocrite some days.
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Kyon
Dead Account Holder
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06-11-2007, 10:45 PM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Celria
Just as a something to say on topic:
I'm a feminist. If I had to define myself this is one word I'd use, and I'd certainly put it before "Interested in lolita fashion"
As such, I sometimes have issues with lolita. How can I squee over how pretty the lolita girls are in their puffy pink outfits, and lovely lace, but at the same time hold the views that little girls should not be put in puffy pink, and pretty lace, because that enforces gender roles I don't agree with.
I don't think women should be cute. I don't think women should be pretty. I don't like the idea of judging a woman on her appearance at all. Hell, I'm one of those feminists who doesn't shave her legs or armpits.
Liking lolita seems... well...
It makes me feel like a hypocrite some days.
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Isn't feminism about giving women a choice to look and act whatever way they want? These girls and women who dress in Lolita do it because it's what they like, and what they want to do.
So... you being against it sounds pretty hypocritical...
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Steinie
(-.-)zzZ
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06-11-2007, 10:54 PM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Celria
Just as a something to say on topic:
I'm a feminist. If I had to define myself this is one word I'd use, and I'd certainly put it before "Interested in lolita fashion"
As such, I sometimes have issues with lolita. How can I squee over how pretty the lolita girls are in their puffy pink outfits, and lovely lace, but at the same time hold the views that little girls should not be put in puffy pink, and pretty lace, because that enforces gender roles I don't agree with.
I don't think women should be cute. I don't think women should be pretty. I don't like the idea of judging a woman on her appearance at all. Hell, I'm one of those feminists who doesn't shave her legs or armpits.
Liking lolita seems... well...
It makes me feel like a hypocrite some days.
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Isn't feminism about giving women a choice to look and act whatever way they want? These girls and women who dress in Lolita do it because it's what they like, and what they want to do.
So... you being against it sounds pretty hypocritical...
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Touche ;D
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Croon
(^._.^)ノ
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06-11-2007, 11:11 PM
*applauds Kyon*
8'D
<3333
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Ayumui
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06-12-2007, 12:26 AM
Croon- Yush =D
Celria- I'm a bit of a feminist myself, but I choose to wear Lolita fashion because I'd rather cover myself up and look more refined than dress like the trashy whores and sex objects portrayed in the media. And males around me request I not wear loli and dress in tight prep-brand name or bum-shaker clothing--and I would never do that for a man. I've no interest in appealing to them.
There are Lolita styles other than the cute frilly cupcakes that are sweetloli.
Kyon- Whoot! O3O
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Celria
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06-12-2007, 01:04 AM
Umm Kyon. You can tell me I'm being hypocritical, if I can tell you that you're being condecending, and presumptuous.
I've heard the argument about choices and free choice before. It's not like I don't spend hours of my time reading about these sorts of arguments, contemplating them, and contemplating my position.
You can say that feminism is about giving women a choice to look and act however they like, but when saying that, you should consider that not all choices made in patriarchy are choices made freely. If a woman has been conditioned her entire life by media images, and the sexist ideal that women should be beautiful, then when they make 'choices' based off this patriarchal view, they're cementing patriarchy.
I want a world where women are able to make free choices, because gender roles don't exist, and aren't there to warp and distort the choices made by men and women.
As such, I want to get rid of patriarchy, which means resisting it. Partially that means resisting the idea that women should subscibe to time consuming, expensive, unnessecary beauty rituals. If the reason a woman makes the choice to do these things, is rooted in sexist societal expectations, then I don't want them.
Here are links to a three part essay on the subject:
1. http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/Nikk...tyClarke1.html
2. http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/Nikk...tyClarke2.html
3. http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/Nikk...tyClarke3.html
Here's a speech which details this view a little more (in regards to the sex industry.) If you have the time, and care enough, why not give it a listen.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...42731224140595
I've spent a good long time thinking about my views, and researching them. My ideas aren't ones I just come up with lightly.
So. You you calling me hypocritical when you don't know my veiws on the matter. Well, it's not hypocritical, but it sure is offensive.
@Ayumi: I get what you're saying about looking refined, actually, that's part of why I like the look. In lolita clothes, I'm nobodies sex symbol. I like that. I wouldn't not wear loli because men (or women) asked me not to.
EGL is also beautiful. <3333
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Kyon
Dead Account Holder
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06-12-2007, 01:12 AM
I wasn't calling you a hypocrite, nor was a trying to be rude. Though I will say that I'm not going to read those articles, because I really don't care that much about the subject. XD
All I'm saying is that, from what I understand, feminism is about free-choice. Being who you want to be.
I dress the way I dress because it's how I want to dress. Just because you, or other feminists, don't think it's appropriate for an empowered woman, I couldn't care less about your ideals or opinions on what I wear. Nor could I care about that of others.
Yes, the arguement about being raised into that position is valid, however, as long as they're happy, who cares? Either way, noone is forcing them to wear cute frilly clothing. They do it of their own volition.
Many women think it's disgusting that some don't shave their armpits. Are you going to change that just because some other women think you should? I doubt it.
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Celria
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06-12-2007, 01:35 AM
You might not have said I was a hypocrite directly, but you did say I sounded like one. That was condecending, and presumptuous. You might not have been trying to be rude, but you were.
I don't feel feminism can be summed up in a sentence such as "feminism is about free choice" but if I could sum it up, it'd be something close to the sentence Rebecca uses in that speech there. "Feminism is the resistance movement created for women, to eliminate patriarchy." If I had more time, I'd talk about how eliminating patriarchy doesn't mean instilling matriarchy, but whatever.
Feminism is a wide, broad subject. So you can place your opinions on the table if you'd like, but there are other ones out there.
Now, you couldn't care less about my opinions or my ideals. Good for you. I'm not asking you to care about them. I'm not telling you to change your wardrobe. I'm not telling you you're unempowered. (I don't think I'm empowered though, just to put that out there. I don't know you well enough to tell you if you are or not.)
I'm not trying to change what you wear at all. I came into the thread posing my own moral concern because I'm not sure about what I should do. Not because I want to tell you what you should do.
As such: Many women might have opinions about my lack of shaving. I wouldn't change my beauty rituals because of the opinions of others, but I didn't come in here telling people to change, or wanting people to change theirs.
I came in here because I was wondering what I should do. I was wondering about my own free choice, and how I was going to use my own agency. I came in here because I was having a bit of a moral problem with myself. Not because I wanted to force my morals on you.
And as for that: "If thy're happy, who cares" thing. Well. I have a few things I could say to that, but you already told me you don't care enough about the subject, so I'm not even going to try going into an essay, or giving an argument. I just want to note that this subject has been discussed, and debated before, and there are a number of different opinions about it, and I'm not worse then you, or dumber then you if I have different ones. You're not worse then, or dumber then me for having different ones either.
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Kyon
Dead Account Holder
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06-12-2007, 02:35 AM
I apologize for coming off as rude, then. XD
And I'm sorry for engaging you in a sort-of debate. I understand your predicament now.
I'd say that, if you like something, like it. D: You shouldn't have to worry about whether or not it's what a feminist should like.
The thing I don't get about feminism is that they're trying to force women, often times (Not saying you are, or most are, but many still do) into being like them, or looking a way that they feel many women should look like. Because it's not what men want, or something. I'm not sure. And many of these women say that they are fighting so that women can be free from male oppression and whatever. How? By being oppressed by our own gender?
It just doesn't make sense to me. Though I could be biased. I live in Portland, Oregon. Everyone here is like that, and they get on my nerves. >_>;
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