|
H_e_a_r_t
(。⌒∇⌒)&...
|
|

07-19-2007, 05:14 AM
I find the topic very interesting and i want to carry with it since the original one is locked...because people are posting each other's personal info up. So don't s do it here... I don't know who y'all are but i wanna hear some more points on this.
Anyway, do you think the offsite traders, especially, or the banned accounts with offenses that have nothing to do with troll deserving to be unban (IP) ? I think just taking away all of the things they have in their original account is enough. IP ban should be for serious things like porn posting or trolling. Of course i know some of the mods really don't want to deal with the same people keep breaking the rules over and over again...but, if someone only broke the big rule once, they should get a second chance.
And should the offsite traders/banned be banned without notice and warnings? This point came up as "we don't need to show them rulesbreaker courtesy. " Well, supposed if the person was framed or really hasn't done anything wrong, then wouldn't that be so unfair? I know framing people is not hard...trust me, you can do many things with photoshop. Assumptions and some screen shots are not solid proofs at all. Heck, even identical IP address is not very reliable since i can get someone's IP out in the proxy connection... There should be a warning, a time for explanation and careful inspection of the proofs.
I think it's important to be fair as well as maintain orders. A little drama here and there and people can be mean and start framing each others or set others up... I believe it was done before... an unnamed mod told me so of "sometimes members try to frame each others"
So, discuss, IP banning, banning policy, proofs, second chances...
|
|
|
|
|
Vanity
⊙ω⊙
Banned
|
|

07-19-2007, 12:07 PM
- I think they should stay banned.
|
|
|
|
|
Rvaya
\ (•◡•) /
|
|

07-19-2007, 01:28 PM
I think each case needs some in depth research because if they aren't going to do that now and get in to the habit on how to see a true rule abuser from a fake then they certainly won't do it when the site continues to grow.
I don't think they should take away items anymore that should just stay a one time thing in my opinion because it's just caused so much drama as it is.
|
|
|
|
|
Razor
Menewsha FOREVER!
|
|

07-19-2007, 04:30 PM
Well, I don't think people should be ip banned on their first offense. It is a serious offense, but not nearly on the level of other very diliberate offenses like porn, trolling, and more.
However, if they come back and repeat their offense, no second chance, obviously what they did is diliberate and they should not be permitted to return.
|
|
|
|
|
Mama Juru
Why you crying?
Assistant Administrator
|
|

07-19-2007, 06:50 PM
I still believe that serious offenders who are banned should remain banned but what I have noticed is that the current method of banning seems to be essentially ineffective.
As we have seen, Sinful Spade was able to come back and post using a different account. I've seen Vanilla pop around the site under a different account and I'm sure there are others but I don't know who is banned and who isn't other than a handful. If the system is unable to ban a dynamic ip and these people can come back anyway, what is the point of banning? Is it symbolic? It just leaves the mods something additional to do I would think.
|
|
|
|
|
Flying Wings
(^._.^)ノ
|
|

07-19-2007, 07:06 PM
Personally, I agree with the others. They've been banned for a reason. They should stay out so they won't trash Menewsha. They should first ban. If they continue it and do even worse actions, no question there. They should be IP Banned.
But they deserve to get a reason so they'll learn from it. :]
But you're right about the framing, they could probably do it on different IPs so they can check the IPs I guess. I'm not sure. >__<
|
|
|
|
|
makisan
⊙ω⊙
Banned
|
|

07-23-2007, 07:16 AM
I have a very unique perspective on this (as well as a deep-seeded resentment :B ). Menewsha is a western based website. I'm from an Asian country. In my country, many buildings are networked so the cheap managers can cut costs yet still offer us internet.
There was an unjust ban to a person here. Incredibly unjust, with very little proof, and yet we were all I.P banned and Menewsha left us with absolutely NO WAY to contact anyone. Not a link, not a reason, not an email, *nothing*. they lost a few really nice asian members this way (and I myself wonder why I bother to be back here).
It was proven that they had made a huge mistake. Only AFTER I had to find some alternate way to actually beable to speak to someone, which believe me, was NOT easy. We recieved apologies and such, however the whole experience left many here to decide NOT to bother with barely any non-asian Sites.
Menewsha's I.P ban policies are not only unprofessional, they are overused. People are tried, banned, and hung before they are even questioned (Im not talking about people who spam porn). Regular users we didnt even know recieved information about our issues from staff that should not have been accessible to them. I had a bunch of pms from people I never met asking me questions, asking me to give them my MSN so they could "talk" to me about it (basically gossip mongers). It should have stayed as staff information only.
So this method of just banning people's I.P's not knowing world internet systems, or IF they are even correct in a few cases and ban under assumption rather than solid proof, can effect a great many people who did absolutely nothing wrong.
Not leaving one single way to communicate with anyone to ask about why it occured if it *was* unjust (and believe me..there have been unjust bans) is horrid.
So to re-itterate, I am not talking about spamming porn, or notorious occurances, I'm speaking about the people who just decided to log in one day and recieved a message that they were banned and to contact an Admin (with no contact info of course).
I.P bans in my opinion should be reserved for extreme cases. As I have seen it abused.
|
|
|
|
|
Mimi Lara
ʘ‿ʘ
Banned
|
|

07-23-2007, 06:58 PM
Can I just say that this topic hits me hard. My IP adress was banned for quite awhile for off site trading when it wasn't even me...it was my sister who was off site trading. I had been trying to quest for something when all the sudden one day my IP is banned without warning. I wasn't even given a reason why I was banned, I had to figure it out on my own with some friends helping. I also tried to Email the admin...and got ignored....Eventually they just let up on the IP ban, but my origonal is still banned....
|
|
|
|
|
H_e_a_r_t
(。⌒∇⌒)&...
|
|

07-23-2007, 09:22 PM
Ahhh, i have heard many complaints of suddenly being ban without a clue!
I was accused once, but the admins contacted me and cleared everything up, i guess i was lucky?
Banning a member for offsite trading, selling for real money and other similar things should be a really really careful inspection. I suggest some kind of a trial and jury and hearing and such.
I doubt framing happen frequently but it could and it's not really hard to catch a frame though if you inspect the proof carefully enough.
I heard the network in Asia is very bad too >.< I have families there and they went insane over that!
I suppose if i was ever going to visit there, i might get ban if i log on to Menewsha? o.O;;; because of the very "trustworthy" banning system.
Maybe there should be a demonstration eh? Of how wrong the system would be :ninja: Like, me uses alot of tricks in photoshop and make it 100% believable that Josh offsite traded :lol: and i'll use his IP too!...once i figure out the proxy thing, but from what i read, it shouldn't be too hard, then all this talk will be believable eh? xDDDD kekekeke
...but i gotta get permission =[
|
|
|
|
|
makisan
⊙ω⊙
Banned
|
|

07-24-2007, 02:16 AM
careful H_E_A_R_T :shock: ..talking about that might get you banned XD;. (Menewsha has Thought Police).
The thing in Asia, at least where I'm from is I *can* have a personal I.P if I choose to pay for a company to run a cable into my apartment rather than use the one provided. However, I can't think of anything more asinine than spending extra money every month solely to post on this pixel site. I can always run over to Gaia, as crazy as that place can be, and know there is a professional process at work where such things won't happen. I know people who will never come back, and then there are people here who were going to give Menewsha a try but have decided not to now.
In the Mimi Lara's case, there is a strong possibility that a sibling or a roomate can try something dumb and against the rules. However, does that mean the other sibling/roomate should also lose their account or forever use a proxy? Most people don't believe the "It wasn't me, it was my brother/sister..etc"
However, there *is* no solid proof one way or the other. It might be true. And the slight possibility of it being truthful means they will ban two people by I.P just to get at ONE. Meanwhile, if they just banned the account, the perpetrator is caught, items are dismissed, and they are indeed punished.
Their argument about banning I.P's is that the same person can sign up again!. Well that's also ridiculous. Because even when I.P banned, a person can use a free proxy and get another account just the same.
It just doesnt make sense.
I've also known a few people who were really nice users of Menewsha that left awhile ago because they were roomates, thus shared an I.P and were contacted by a staff member and accused of hoarding because each had a main account, and a mule. It's sad.
|
|
|
|
|
CrinkledStraw
\ (•◡•) /
n/a
|
|

07-24-2007, 06:12 AM
The rules are clearly set out, if you break them you should be punished. I don't want to have to be around someone who breaks the rules and ruins the fun or atmosphere of the site, so I'm all for banning rule breakers.
Use common sense and you won't be banned.
|
|
|
|
|
makisan
⊙ω⊙
Banned
|
|

07-24-2007, 06:39 AM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CrinkledStraw
The rules are clearly set out, if you break them you should be punished. I don't want to have to be around someone who breaks the rules and ruins the fun or atmosphere of the site, so I'm all for banning rule breakers.
Use common sense and you won't be banned.
|
did you read *any* of the above? O_o...many people who never broke any rules have been wrongfully I.P banned with absolutely NO WAY of contacting a staff member. Where is the common sense in that?
..and living in fear of being unjustly banned because someone suspects you might have looked at someone in the wrong direction is not a very pleasant atmosphere in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Aeris
Mistress of Materia!
|
|

07-24-2007, 07:11 AM
Unfortunately, it is extremely hard to find those who are offsite trading - to try to sort out the truth from the real, the frauds, and scammers to those who are honestly trying to say they were wrongfully banned.
I made mistakes as a CM and I admit to it, regret it, and have apologized for it. But once you get the job of having to find offsiters, the job is fruitless, heartbreaking, and painful. You don't know who to trust - your best friend could be one of them. I admit that the emotional part of it got to me as well, but I've already apologized for that. ^^;;;
I do agree IP banning is pretty lame - those who offsite end up using other methods to get back, so in the end it doesn't make sense to IP ban anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
makisan
⊙ω⊙
Banned
|
|

07-24-2007, 10:28 AM
Just to make a point- this is a Debate xD;;. And I'm just explaining my feelings on topic. My opinions here are really about I.P bans versus Account bans. And I have my suspicions that off-site trading became a fixated witch hunt that through no *one* person's fault went out of control. This isn't about Aeris being CM <3. I'm sorry if it came across that way but it was not my intention. It honestly never crossed my mind I'm looking at it quite more like an object lol.
I'm just making my points about this topic as I would on any debate. I was just trying to illustrate that I.P bans can go horribly awry, not to mention are futile innature- as the banned person can recreate and get right back on Menewsha via proxy. So account bans may be the smarter thing to do in the end.
My second major point is that there really should be some way a person can contact an Administrator or some form of email/reason just in case something IS amiss. It tells you too, but it gives you no link, no address, no way how.
|
|
|
|
|
H_e_a_r_t
(。⌒∇⌒)&...
|
|

07-24-2007, 05:47 PM
:lol: :lol: Thought Police
Aeris, ahhh, It is really really hard to tell the honest people from the fraud. Proving someone guilty is much easily than proving someone innocent...but some good lawyers might say the contrary :lol:
BUt i was thinking, if the IP that Mene banned are not the offsiter's/ offender's, who are they really banning ^^;;; ? Proxy can take someone's random IP address and set it loose on their connection. Turn out ... Mene ended up banning total stranger and sometimes, some unlucky one using this site.
|
|
|
|
|
Aeris
Mistress of Materia!
|
|

07-24-2007, 11:04 PM
I understand Maki - in the end, I actually did the extra effort to look up a persons email to tell them why they have been banned using my own email. That should be a set standand that was told to me in the beginning. @ [email protected];;;
What do you mean thought police? XD;;;
I have no idea to be honest. XD;; I don't know much about IPs and proxies myself really. But those who do bad things always come back around, though. Karma will get them eventually! And hopefully we could tell photoshops to actual screenshots. XD;;
|
|
|
|
|
Plum Lovelace
⊙ω⊙
|
|

07-24-2007, 11:25 PM
I dislike the idea of IP bans, regardless of how severe the rule-breaking was.
If that user had siblings/family, a roomate, or maybe even was using a local computer, than all those people would suffer as well.
Acount bans are enough in my opnion =)
|
|
|
|
|
makisan
⊙ω⊙
Banned
|
|

07-25-2007, 01:58 AM
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aeris
I understand Maki - in the end, I actually did the extra effort to look up a persons email to tell them why they have been banned using my own email. That should be a set standand that was told to me in the beginning. @ [email protected];;;
What do you mean thought police? XD;;;
|
Well that's very good of you to make that extra effort, and Im sure it was appreciated. You shouldn't have had to use your own email though (as Im sure you were thinking at the time lol). There should be something set up for the Mods/CM to make your lives easier that way.
[email protected] Thought Police; a reference to Goerge Orwell's book 1984. Thinking things against Big Brother would send the Thought Police to your door and they would scoop you up for re-programming xD. It was a joke. H-E-A-R-T thinking of that idea could draw attention to her when it seems obscurity is best at times lol.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aeris
I have no idea to be honest. XD;; I don't know much about IPs and proxies myself really. But those who do bad things always come back around, though. Karma will get them eventually! And hopefully we could tell photoshops to actual screenshots. XD;;
|
Well I had to learn about proxies for the first time myself so don't feel bad lol. You can just run "free proxy" through Google and you get a list of Sites. They provide a line where you can type in the Site you want to go to. These Proxies grab *other people's REAL home I.P's* and randomly generate them for the user to surf on. Some proxy's will provide the SAME I.P (that is NOT the users, but someone else's...it can even be from Shanghai) so it will appear this is their true I.P. You can even PAY to just get a new I.P for a small fee on some Sites. They keep coming back because the world is full of homes with computers and zillions of I.P addresses. So everytime you use a free proxy generator, you are actually using someone else's I.P and it can be from anywhere in the world. So in a way you can't be rid of people. They can always come back- so it just sort of confirms the fact that banning an account is the best you can do in these situations, as the other has been proven ineffective.
P.S / Screenshots- I'm not sure if your talking about inventory shots or what LOL. I think a few artists that know Photoshop very well could maybe tell, but I'd have to know more about what it is thats being Photoshoped xD
|
|
|
|
|
-Razor-
⊙ω⊙
|
|

07-27-2007, 07:41 PM
it may not be as serious to us as pron posting or trolling, but offsite trading is serious to menewsha, the items here are supposedly copyrighted(is that it, right?)
so the offsite traders are selling the items for REAL money while the people who bought them are getting the items into thier account. They should both get banned for offsite trading.Its like borrowing a book from the library publishing it as your own book and selling it for profit.
its just that serious, i say they stay ip banned, deserved
but i say that if some one is caught offsite trading like
one menesha item for menewsha gold...thats just doing what they would do here ,but on a another site, so that shouldn't really be anyplace near being serious
|
|
|
|
|
makisan
⊙ω⊙
Banned
|
|

07-28-2007, 03:47 AM
Razor- I think the bulk of Off-Site trading was concerning trading between Sites. Pixels for pixels..So for example, someone gives a person Gaia gold in exchange for a Menewsha item/gold . I think those instances are far more common than for real cash.
I'm sure some have paid real cash...
It's just my opinion, and perhaps a whole different topic- but as I said before I think the Off-Site trading thing was turned into a sort of premature witch-hunt. For a time, I heard many honest people here saying they were accused of Off-Siting, threatened to be I.P banned when they definately were not, and then subsequently proved it.
A friend of mine knows someone who left because they equipped a V-Day boa that they hadn't worn for a long time and they were immediately accused of getting it through illegal practices (oddly, accused by a notorious hoarder)- this was because someone saw her sell a boa before, reported that she had another one (as if they have them numbered), and they immediately accused her.
Her and a friend scoured through the back threads on the Exchange to find the thread where she had accepted the trade of 2 boas (or could be sashes I dont remember) for a V-Day hairpin. She just sold one and kept one. So after hours of looking through page after page they found the thread where she had traded a Hairpin for 2 V-Day items, and then the thread where she had sold one of them.
She was THEN proclaimed innocent.
Then she left the Site I believe thinking the accusations with no shred of proof were horrible.
I believe the bannings here are overzealous in nature. I don't believe common users should be utilized and encouraged to accuse and attempt to gather flimsy evidence on people (though I believe that has been stopped, but it was happening a lot and it caused many problems- everyone wanted to be a hero)
I.P Banning should be reserved for very serious offenses with absolute concrete solid proof.
|
|
|
|
|
Icebreaker
Below Zero
|
|

07-28-2007, 09:43 PM
yeah, i do think that it is definently not worthy of an ip ban, well for the menewsha for menesha offsite trading. But i do say that the money for menesha is kinda of more serious matter. But hey, its all up to the admin and how they look at it.
|
|
|
|
|
H_e_a_r_t
(。⌒∇⌒)&...
|
|

07-29-2007, 05:04 AM
Razor, the point is, when Menewsha IP ban someone, it is not banning the real IP of the offender but rather someone's else through the proxy connection. Say, gimme you IP and i'll make that clear to you right away :lol: :lol: :lol:
makisan, well, do tell me about that. Being accused of offsite trading by everyone even though you are completely innocent can make you feel very homicidal! I would have left when that happened to me but that'll be backing up from an overzealous mob :lol: Where's the fun in that? xD (although i did freak out but ended up being more angry than freaked)
And yeah, the accusation sounded really harsh, as if they have already concluded you are guilty and just telling you to confess -.- ...
|
|
|
|
|
DreamEmpress
*^_^*
|
|

07-30-2007, 02:58 AM
I am not one to ever really get banned or in trouble of any sorts. I was warned once by accident because someone reported something I did not do. Anyway I don't agree with IP bannings (because of the above) but I can understand why. If you run a website like this or gaia you have to deal with thousands or hundreds of reports of off site trading or other things that maybe against the rules. Sometimes IP banning may sound harsh but for repeat offenders it maybe forced upon. I don't think it should be used often but I guess on here it has. It doesn't make me think any less of the site because of that reason. I think things happen and if people speak their mind on the subject it can change. I don't think people should make total judgement on mistakes or errors a human beings makes. It happens. This site is not the end all of the internet experience. :)
|
|
|
|
| Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) |
|
|
|