What's your view on polygamy? Just yesterday (Friday, October 26th, 2007), Oprah had a show on polygamy, and it intrigued me to start an interesting debate on the many views of polygamy. After mentioning it to someone, and hearing them say how it'd be a very interesting debate indeed, I fully decided to go through with the idea.

For those of you who do not know, polygamy is more or less the practice of having more than one spouse - specifically for a man to have multiple wives. It is technically illegal in the United States, especially when forms of abuse are involved. However, in Oprah's show yesterday, she had families of functioning women - these so-called polygamist wives were normal, as were their husbands, and admitted to being spoiled and not even once getting jealous when one of the wives spent a night with the husband. They went on to say how each of them had an equally good amount of time with their husband, and told of how he was the hard worker, whereas they were spoiled rotten with the extravagances he provided. There were three polygamist - or "plural" as they're called - families that were examined on Oprah; whereas the usual stereotype is an abusive Amish man with multiple wives, these were modern and, needless to say, everyday people. Below are the recaps on each family--FYI, I'm too lazy to search for extra and more correct information to back up each of these families, yet feel free to do so, and I'll add it:

She escaped at an early age- This one woman was on Oprah who admitted to having been married off at either sixteen or seventeen, I believe, and having eight children with a man who had a total of 54 children. Right before her eldest daughter had turned fourteen - for that was the courting age in her plural family community - she had escaped with her children, to live a more normal life. In this viewpoint, the woman was forced to marry this older man, and have his kids; as you'll see in the other two instances, the women had agreed to marry the man, and knew what they were getting into - they also became best friends.

They're twin sisters- This one man - who did not show himself on TV, for he'd be risking a lot - had three wives, his first wife and his third wife both being twin sisters. They had an extravagant lifestyle, and were all very quaint and normal.

Not twins, but still sisters- This other man - who agreed to meet on Oprah, and practically risk it all - had three wives, the first two being sisters - just not twins. His third wife was a coworker. I believe, in total, they had around 9 or 10 children together.

And last, but not least, another point I'd like to come across. In the instance with the woman who had been forced to marry the elder guy at the age of seventeen - in her community, there was another polygamist who had well over 180 wives. Most were apparently fourteen or so - which was very much legal in their community - although he was just recently arrested on counts of encouraged incest and sex with minors. Alright, that's about it; feel free to add anything you see fit.

Discuss:
-"Plural" Families and their Legitimacy
-Your viewpoints altogether
-Why or why not they should be kept illegal
-Etc.

Wow. That's kind of weird. I don't think a girl should be forced into such a thing. I think it should be legal if the girls agree to it, if not, then the guy should leave her alone.

I would never be with someone if they were also with another person or two other people. I know that in Africa it's practiced there. If you can afford to have more than one wife, then you get them. This one guy was really riched, and showed it off by having 3 wives, and is working on getting a fourth. It's hard work though, since he has to treat all the wives the same.

I think they should limit how many people(Up to three probably) you can marry. The only case in which you should be allowed to have more than one wife, is if you're into such a thing, and have enough money to support such a large family. I would never do such a thing, because I would be emotionally tired...

Also in some countries, a woman can marry more than one male. The males all happen to be brothers. This way they won't have to split up the family's money.

I would never be in such a situation, mainly because it's not legal for girls to marry other girls. None the less, I'd rather be with one person and one person only.

Hehe, I'm with you on that. ;]
It's not legal for guys to marry guys. Though personally, I don't think I'll ever find the need to prove my love through Christian bonds and practices. Yet that's a whole 'nother debate.
As for the whole 'being into it' that you mentioned, it's not like they have orgies in these plural families. The man will be with one wife one night, and another the next. It's very complicated, and through my eyes, something that I'm neutral about; it's not widely practiced, and is certainly one of those things that look odd from the outside, yet are normal when you're involved in them.
Like one of the wives said, there are so many alternative lifestyles in this world that, if someone chooses to live one way, why ridicule them if it's perfectly safe and harmless?

I don't mind people being married to/dating multiple people as long as all people involved are aware of it and consent to it(also that there's no abuse going on, but that's really a different topic). And consent does not include a 14 year old girl saying it's ok in my mind. I wonder why polygamy almost always involves one man and multiple women though, and not the other way around.

I think that it is asking too much to marry multiple people and then expect them to be faithful to you only, but that's just me. Although I have no problem with other people doing it, I could never date multiple people or have my boyfriend/girlfriend date multiple people. I get jealous too easily.

Yes, jealousy is also another factor; although each wife said that they were best friends with one another and never for one second felt even the tiniest bit jealous, I could sense that they were...

And generally speaking, in my opinion, I think that the reason why polygamy consists usually of one husband and multiple wives is the breeding factor; that, after a certain age, women are no longer fertile - that being said, men are fertile eternally; preserved semen can last forever, apparently.

Polygamy always seems like more of a breeding-heavy subject rather than loving more than one person... ><

Well, I have a bit of a conflicting view
I don't believe you can love two people equally, at least not at the level one should love one's significant other.
A soul mate binds at a completely different level, polar in soem areas, matching in others to create perfect harmony. Of course the only way to duplicate this process is with an identical which is impossible if not at least unlikely and pointless.
However, I see nothing morally wrong with it, just more religious edicts in the government.
don't get me wrong, I see msot religoen as a pwoerful and positive influence in many lives and creates a strong comunity, but a religeon should never force itself onto others.
Pplygamist families are like a pack in my opinion, and look how well pack animals do. With a better knit family unit the understanding of comunity and responsibility as a whole, which our country sorely lakcs, would be more naturaul to a child raised in a multi family unit.

I agree 100% with you on the whole soulmate bit, Lomen. Yet like I'd said, I imagine polygamists have a different reason to marry than falling in so-called "love" with the "perfect person out there for them." I imagine it's more of a want to produce children, because honestly, who can prevent themselves from completely adding a hint of favoritism here or there? I mean, for example, if you prefer chocolate ice cream over vanilla, that's still a favoritism. The same thing can go for friends, siblings, grandparents, even parents! And undoubtedly if you had more than one spouse a favorite would form...
But, the thing is, the women seem to have prevented themselves from feeling jealous, because they claim themselves as pampered, and living in a high end way of living. COULD they themselves feel favoritism, in these cases? Nope, because THEY'RE the ones that are the multiple spouses - they do not have numerous husbands, in these cases.
I know what I'm about to say may seem controversial or offensive in some way to certain people, but ultimately, it's fitting in with the whole debate theme here: Men are easily sble to trick people, and if you even search health sites, or have listened to the news lately, men are most likely to withstand pressure and stress of lying/being in a bad relationship, beyond women; because of this, women seem to internalize things far worse, and in turn have a higher risk of heart disease.

Surprisingly monogamy is not the most common form of marriage in this world, it's polygamy...polyandry (one women with multiple husbands is more rare than monogamy...I only know of two groups off the top of my head)

In cultures that practice polygamy traditionally marriage doesn't happen because a couple is in love, it is to cement an alliance, keep wealth within a family or increase trade between groups. If you look at it logically it makes sense, since the end of the second world war the nuclear family has become, more and more isolated and women had no one to turn to. Another wife would actually help with that and create a sense of community. Traditionally the family would not live in one house either but in a small complex, with each wife having her own home and the man having his own as well. Children were raised communally, and not by daycare workers.

The problem with polygamy in North America is that most people weren't raised with the same expectations of marriage which makes the bond a power game, especially when very young teenagers are involved.

And then you have to take into account the difference between marriage and mating, but that is a whole other anthropological rant that I will not get into here. ^-^

I don't think it's inherently wrong. If everyone's adult and consenting, and able to leave the arrangement with ease, then I can't see how it would do any harm.
However, I think it'd also be a bit difficult to handle, what with all the different people in the house, their offspring, their finances and the likes. Not to mention that it's not right to coerce someone into something like that against their will (just as it's not right to force a monogamous marriage).
I imagine it might be harder to have that whole supposed special bond thing you're meant to have in a marriage, but I'm told polyamorous relationships can work.

*shrug* It's a weird one. As I said, if everyone's cool with it, I can't see the harm, but it must be rather difficult to make it work.

Glad you stopped by, Spatterdash. ;P

And in all of the cases of polygamy I mentioned, they were extremely well-off, and the man in all of the cases had a high-paying job.
Oh, by the way - the woman who had been forced into marriage as a teen was on Good Morning America this morning. ;D
She's written a book on her whole experience in the community she was born into, etc., and seems to have fared well.

And, Isabella, I never knew that about how each wife had their own homes. That's actually quite interesting, and extremely intelligent! Also, communal child raising has always seemed like one of the most profitable ways of raising a child, in my opinion, although I imagine in a plural family that there must be a lot of difference as to what the morals of each wife are... Of course, like you said, Isabella, you do indeed have to take into account the differences between marriage and mating (sorry if it seems I'm repeating you word for word xD); marriage has always been held as a sacred union between two people who love one another, and never (except in certain cultures) has been seen as for mating and wealth purposes only.

I love how you shed some light on how certain cultures use marriage/polygamy as a way to cement alliances, etc. ^^ I never thought of it that way, but it's most likely one of the reasons why a lot of the pieces of the world are how they are; alliance, wealth, and trade increase have always led to more innovative and better conditions in the past.

^^.... True, and in some countries.. A lot actually, they don't even marry for love like the U.S. does. In fact, some people in India marry their 12 or maybe younger children off, this way the kids get to know eachother and can at least be friends. The wife doesn't marry into her husband's family till she is 16 either. There is also this creepy country(don't remember which one) where men kidnap the women they want to marry. The idea of marriage is just really a document or something i suppose.

fuyumi- that also happens in India ^-^....I don't think anymore though. Indian tribes have so many fun marriage forms. They are one of the two I can come up with for an example of polyandry (fraternal to be exact), there's an African tribe too.

Yes, I know about the african one... do you perhaps watch taboo too?

no, I've taken a few anthro course in university so far and kinship is rather central to the profession ^-^ I just finished my project on Inuit kinship

Ah, well that show is on the discovery channel. It might help you ^^. It's by far one of my favorites. I find history and stuff like that fascinating..but that is off topic, if we were to discuss this more, we'd have to go to pms probably XD

xD
I personally could care less whether you stayed on or off topic; to me, Debates can universally lead into another debate, etcetera, etcetera, although that's probably stretching the rules a bit, so... xD;
Your best bet IS probably to atick to PMs. ^^'

Anyway, on another note... I've just come to realize today by myself that... A lot of people never married for love... And yet the Christian belief is that marriage is the union between two people who love one another... Although, if that's the case, why make such a fuss over homosexuality and the like? Such so-called "organized" relgiions seem to contradict themselves in so many unbelievably cryptic ways. If you grew up without anything more than Christian beliefs, and yet you were gay, you would think to do the right thing if enough paternal pressure was put onto you, right? And not just paternal... Peer, social, etc. But yeah, the point is... xD

A lot of marriage seems to exist merely for breeding/mating purposes, and so why can't polygamy overall fit in - with the right conditions, of course. Nobody wants to watch massive domestic abuse occuring with only one husband involved - yet several wives...

Also, polygamy is apparently primarily focused/based off of Mormon beliefs - in the US, anyway. Other countries and cultures undoubtedly share different origins for where their polygamist beliefs sprang from, but for the US, a lot of polygamy is centered around the Mormon religion.

Polygamy can work.

I was in a polygamous relationship and it worked well for a while but my man at the time just couldn't handle two women.

So for people who are mature enough I don't see why it shouldn't be legal. Not that it's the same thing but if we as a society can be okay with relationships between people of the same sex why can't we be ok with someone loving more then one person at a time.

Jennger, I agree with you. :)
So many lifestyles have been accepted so far that it seems absurd to not accept another - yet it still seems controversial enough for a lot of people to deny it permission to be legalized - moreso than same sex couples, since this not only defies the supposed "common law" of the Bible and the Catholic Church, but also would create controversy amongst the community as a whole. In speculation, anyway. :P

Would you mind sharing with us your insight/experience with the polygamous relationship? You weren't married to him, right?

In the old testament it talks about men having multiple wives. Like King David I believe.. And that guy that had so many kids.. I don't remember I haven't been to church in a looooooooooonnnnnnng time. I could look it up in my bible, but I'd have to find it.

Facade: I actually was married to him. We were together for 4 and a half years.

We had talked everything out but the problem was, is he broke the only rule I had set out there. The rule was that the girl we bring in has to be my best friend. So that was the start of the end, but I still tried to work it out and actually even became quite fond of the other girl. ((she and I became closer relationshipwise then she did with him.)) But he just couldn't handle being in love with both of us, but in not being able to handle it he lost both of us because she was in the relationship for the triad aspect not to be one on one with him.

So my insight is set ground rules and give the other person in the relationship complete veto powers. Remember that the person you're bringing in isn't to replace the person you already have it's to enhance that reltionship further.

I think that it should be perfectly legal but slightly restricted. Maybe some stricter rules; say that you can only have a max of 3 wives and that they have to be 18 or over, things like that. Things that make it more humane for the women who are in this.

Also, they should be well aware of what they are getting in to and should have just as much say in it as the man, none of the stereotypical 'God told me to marry your 11 year old daughter' stuff

Why should it be limited to 3? Why not 2? Or 4? If you're going to let someone marry more then one other person why put a restriction on the number?

I do agree that they should all know about each other.

eAlso, polygamy is apparently primarily focused/based off of Mormon beliefs - in the US, anyway. Other countries and cultures undoubtedly share different origins for where their polygamist beliefs sprang from, but for the US, a lot of polygamy is centered around the Mormon religion.

not really Mormon...in fact polygamy is now outlawed by the Mormon church, though it was central for a time in the beginning. This was because of religious persecution, a lot of man had been killed and they needed to continue to have babies or the religion would die out. After the numbers had climbed again polygamy became a no no. Women have the babies, men impregnate women...they are the two founding principles of kinship (there are 4 but they are sorta irrelevant: men exercise some control on society and you can not mate with primary kin as defined by the culture) . A lot of women can be impregnated by just a few men and thereby continuing the species/culture. It also happened in a lot of native tribes that did not traditionally practice polygamy when colonizers wiped them out with smallpox and the like.

From what I remember, the rationale behind polygamy in the Koran was because back then, the wives and other female relatives of men were often left behind with no title or land to their names.

There was a war and these women needed support as well as something. Since their men to whom they were linked to were gone, they were floating status.

It was for women so when they got married, they received a part and parcel from their new men's lives so when worse comes to worse, they could still fend for themselves.

Men could marry as much women as they had PROVIDED they could provide for everybody.

Hence the modern jokes of men who are allowed to be polygamous to go "Uhh, no...nevermind. I'd rather have one set of in-laws thank you."

I have no idea why in the modern times... It's become some kind of "gotta catch them all" sort of thing. o.o;

On a related tangent:

The dowry in marriage was NEVER intended to be some kind of payment to the parents when they got married. It was and should have been for the girls. It was to give the girl a sense of security that when worse comes to worse, she could live off on her own without her husband to keep her afloat.

I have no idea why they gave it to the parents.

PS: If you people find it surprising to find such YOUNG girls getting into marriage, it's because it's probable that in their life world, the age of maturity is when a girl begins to menstruate and hence is now able to function as a woman -although I really don't approve of teenaged pregnancies because they're just too risky-

Marrying for love is actually a recent thing... but that belongs in another debate.

I've known many polyamours people in my lifeitme, and knew of one women married to 2 men. All were fine with it. She was only legally married to one of the guys.

But poly type relationships take a lot of work and have to have the right type of people and understanding for it.

What we usually hear about polygamy is the worse of the worse, and comes from small closed sects who reject outsiders and have people living in abusive relationships with little knowledge brought in. As with the thing about the Fundmental LDS church.

But, I think there should be no limits on it, as long as it is consenting people who know what they are doing and have the understanding of what is happening.

Over all, it's easier to see why polgamy is better than polyandry. Simple because of how harder it is for women with pregnancy but man can easily spread themselves that way.