I think the reason we die is because well, if we could all live forever, there would be way to many of us here on this tiny planet (yeah, it's not that tiny, but you get it). We all wouldn't fit. Trees, we will always need them and they don't reproduce as fast as humans can.

Maybe plant cells have something within them for this action to occur. Our cells (animals cells) die and age. They don't divide unless they have too (and you need to know a little about biology to understand where I'm coming from). It's like maybe plant cells divide all throughout there life and it takes them longer to die off and age. I don't know if that's true, but that could be a explanation.

I know about the cells, cells feed from the nutrients we absorb, nutrients carried by our blood. Its a different explenation, although it wasnt very different from what I said^-^'

There are a lot of different ways to die. A lot of those ways would be categorized as "old age" but age, as far as I know doesn't have the power to kill us. You can live to be 120 and have a sudden heart failure and everyone will say it was "your time" and from a certain point of view, you have to expect that eventually the heart will give out, but you can fix that.
You can get a heart transplant, or you could build a machine to function as a heart. If indeed there's a problem with the blood, you can systematically replace all the blood in your body. It would be complicated, definitely, but you can do it I'm sure.
I do believe humans have the capability to live forever. Nature didn't intend it, because nature didn't intend anything except survival for the moment, but I believe humans are uniquely equipped to alter our world and our physiology as we see fit. I don't even think aging has to be inevitable or irreversable. It would certainly be difficult, and maybe the technology doesn't quite exist, but think of this;
Cloning technology exists. Whether humans have been cloned or not, they can be. If you can clone yourself, you can do this any time. So let's say I'm 40 years old and want to be 16 again. Granted it probably wouldn't work immediately, but if I start growing a clone, in 16 years I get my wish. So I'll be 56, yeah, but I'll get a whole new lease on life. A younger look, fresh organs, all the strength and beauty that are associated with youth, all over again, and they wouldn't degrade any faster than usual, so I'd have years before I had to worry about getting old. And if I began another clone at that time, then by the time my new body reaches age 32 I could go right back. Basically it would be a never-ending cycle of replacing the body.
I think this could be done if the brain could be removed and transplanted into the new body, and I think that could be done as long as the brain is removed intact along with the spinal cord and as much of the central nervous system as possible.
The only problems that would still exist would be the ethics of killing clones of yourself to hollow out their bodies and use them yourself, as well as reconnecting the brain and nervous system and brain related diseases, such as alzheimer's disease.
But I think with genetic engineering, the clone could be grown without a brain, and hooked up to ventilators and other machinery to maintain and regulate it's life and growth until it is to be used.
And as for keeping the brain alive while outside the body, I bet you could alter the system to put in a small heart, and enclose the cardiovascular system, so that the brain would continue to enjoy a full supply of blood, and if you attach something similar to a lung, you could oxygenate the blood as well.


Uh... Yeah. I think it's possible for humans to become immortal. Basically, clones are the way to do it.

I guess that could be counted as "a way". Cloning seems to farfetched though, dont you think? Exchanging bodies.. not to mention the risks! Imagine the world wouldnt know anything about DNA, and I came up with this theory? What would be your thoughts?

I think it's optimistic, but not that far fetched. I believe it could be possible within my lifetime. Cloning has already been done, it only needs to be perfected. The human genome has been mapped, and granted that's far from being able to manipulate it, but I think we're close as a race.

As long as you can avoid damage to the nervous system, and you can re-attach it without problems, I've got to believe you can do a brain transplant. If you can give it a sustained supply of oxygenated blood, I think it's possible.

Does any of it really sound unattainable? I mean, in the 1990s or 80s, yeah, it was science fiction, now it seems like it's right around the corner, just waiting to be invented and perfected.
That's how I feel anyway. I suppose I could be absolutely wrong, since I'm not a genetic engineer.

The capacity of our cells for regeneration is limited. : o I think it may have to do with our DNA being battered to pieces by various things. Oxygen slowly, particularly.

Aging is not a natural process, some consider. Animals don't "age" in the same way that humans lose their capabilities. Dx Nature, if you will, bumps them off - natural selection - because they become unfit, whereas we can prevent the natural deaths of our elderly.

: x Sure, we're living longer, but quality of life is bunk for lots of people...

It could relates to the energy cycle. You know how trees take energies directly from the sun, the animal that eats the trees takes only 10% of that energy, and we takes 10% of that. People who are vegetarians tend to live longer than those who aren't. Maybe that's one of the factor.
Well, you see, trees works the very same way as human... They do get weaker over time =? so i do not exactly know what you are talking about. But as far as lifespan goes, i think it has a lot to do with cell regeneration. The human body regeneration power gets weaker and weaker every time. That's how our skins get wrinkles and lines. So why does our regeneration power gets weaker? Scientifically, it could be energy factor, nutrition factor, liver factor, ect. But i look at things in a mythical way. xD I believe we all hold in our body a drop of life. That drop of life has its limit and after we consume all of it, we die. Eternal life lies in the tree of life spoken in so many religious books. Once we eat the fruit from the tree of life, we won't have to die ^__^ I know it;s silly but eh. =D

Personally, i wouldn't want to live forever in this current world x-x;;; seriously. But i also believe one day this Earth will become heaven, so until then ^^

I'm not done with this topic. I just thought of a point to make.
No one dies without a cause. You don't just become too old and then magically die. Age will never kill you. It's always another cause. It may be a cause which is related to aging, like weakening of blood vessels, or slower reaction time, or any number of things. People SAY "they died of old age" but what that really means is "they were old and logically, their death fits the pattern of people dying around that age."
But, theoretically, if you could replace each part of the body, like if we were robots and it was as simple as getting a replacement part and switching it with the old one, then you could keep all systems running normally. And if you could do that, there would no longer be a cause of death. If you age, but your body doesn't degrade, then age can't harm you.
It may be difficult to alter human physiology so that this is possible, to replace or repair all degrading parts, but if it can be done, then death should be impossible.
If a person whose body and brain were perfectly preserved simply died because they were 120 years old, it would suggest that there is something more to human life than the body and the physical aspect. Since I don't believe there's really any evidence of the existence of a "soul," I therefore believe it is possible for a human to live eternally.

Originally Posted by Allucard

I'm not done with this topic. I just thought of a point to make.
No one dies without a cause. You don't just become too old and then magically die. Age will never kill you. It's always another cause. It may be a cause which is related to aging, like weakening of blood vessels, or slower reaction time, or any number of things. People SAY "they died of old age" but what that really means is "they were old and logically, their death fits the pattern of people dying around that age."
But, theoretically, if you could replace each part of the body, like if we were robots and it was as simple as getting a replacement part and switching it with the old one, then you could keep all systems running normally. And if you could do that, there would no longer be a cause of death. If you age, but your body doesn't degrade, then age can't harm you.
It may be difficult to alter human physiology so that this is possible, to replace or repair all degrading parts, but if it can be done, then death should be impossible.
If a person whose body and brain were perfectly preserved simply died because they were 120 years old, it would suggest that there is something more to human life than the body and the physical aspect. Since I don't believe there's really any evidence of the existence of a "soul," I therefore believe it is possible for a human to live eternally.

we're machines =D And int he future, we won't break down anymore. Would that be a good thing now? I think if everyone would be at one point in time all become wise, then this world will be better. But who knows.

@ H_e_a_r_t: I think it would be beneficial if people lived forever, because the endless re-learning of lessons we already know would be less dominant. For instance, it seems like every generation has a war they have to fight, but if people could live forever and not become marginalized like the elderly of today, well if World War II veterans, or Vietnam veterans were still heavily involved in policy, then we might not be at war. I don't know though. Sometimes it really is beneficial for people to die. Imagine if Stalin were still alive. *shudders*

Okay, so I'm studying biology right now, so that's what's currently buzzing around my brain in relation to everything.

I think the difference between plants and animals in this case has to do with cellular structures. Plant and animal cells are for the most part the same, but plant cells have chloroplasts, which is where photosynthesis takes place. Photosynthesis allows plants to create their own food, which is a singularly cool thing to do--all other living things have to live off of plants in some way or another. So yeah, I guess I think that photosynthesis has to do with the 'immortality' of plants.

Personally though, I think immortality is totally undesirable. I have no interest in being immortal, none whatsoever. Life requires change, thus life requires death, that's what I think.

Originally Posted by Allucard

I think it's optimistic, but not that far fetched. I believe it could be possible within my lifetime. Cloning has already been done, it only needs to be perfected. The human genome has been mapped, and granted that's far from being able to manipulate it, but I think we're close as a race.

As long as you can avoid damage to the nervous system, and you can re-attach it without problems, I've got to believe you can do a brain transplant. If you can give it a sustained supply of oxygenated blood, I think it's possible.

Does any of it really sound unattainable? I mean, in the 1990s or 80s, yeah, it was science fiction, now it seems like it's right around the corner, just waiting to be invented and perfected.
That's how I feel anyway. I suppose I could be absolutely wrong, since I'm not a genetic engineer.

lol yes I see. Working on the nervous system and succeed in it without damaging anything.. I think it's like creating a perfect work of art.. It takes much skill, accuracy.. I think it has few to do with technology. In the end its our hands that will have to do the job. Im not completely sure if anyone wants to risk their mentality in order to live longer D:

Originally Posted by H_e_a_r_t

It could relates to the energy cycle. You know how trees take energies directly from the sun, the animal that eats the trees takes only 10% of that energy, and we takes 10% of that. People who are vegetarians tend to live longer than those who aren't. Maybe that's one of the factor.
Well, you see, trees works the very same way as human... They do get weaker over time =? so i do not exactly know what you are talking about. But as far as lifespan goes, i think it has a lot to do with cell regeneration. The human body regeneration power gets weaker and weaker every time. That's how our skins get wrinkles and lines. So why does our regeneration power gets weaker? Scientifically, it could be energy factor, nutrition factor, liver factor, ect. But i look at things in a mythical way. xD I believe we all hold in our body a drop of life. That drop of life has its limit and after we consume all of it, we die. Eternal life lies in the tree of life spoken in so many religious books. Once we eat the fruit from the tree of life, we won't have to die ^__^ I know it;s silly but eh. =D

Personally, i wouldn't want to live forever in this current world x-x;;; seriously. But i also believe one day this Earth will become heaven, so until then ^^

Ive been thinking about photosynthesis yes^-^ I think it might have to do with the chlorofyl in the plant's cells. It could have some healing ability that meat doesnt have? O:

Originally Posted by Allucard

I'm not done with this topic. I just thought of a point to make.
No one dies without a cause. You don't just become too old and then magically die. Age will never kill you. It's always another cause. It may be a cause which is related to aging, like weakening of blood vessels, or slower reaction time, or any number of things. People SAY "they died of old age" but what that really means is "they were old and logically, their death fits the pattern of people dying around that age."
But, theoretically, if you could replace each part of the body, like if we were robots and it was as simple as getting a replacement part and switching it with the old one, then you could keep all systems running normally. And if you could do that, there would no longer be a cause of death. If you age, but your body doesn't degrade, then age can't harm you.
It may be difficult to alter human physiology so that this is possible, to replace or repair all degrading parts, but if it can be done, then death should be impossible.
If a person whose body and brain were perfectly preserved simply died because they were 120 years old, it would suggest that there is something more to human life than the body and the physical aspect. Since I don't believe there's really any evidence of the existence of a "soul," I therefore believe it is possible for a human to live eternally.

Nice thinking! ^-^
Same thoughts on that as me :3
I think organ replacement would only last for a short period of time though. Like a couple of years.. 3 or something, just to make an estimation.

Originally Posted by Chexala

Okay, so I'm studying biology right now, so that's what's currently buzzing around my brain in relation to everything.

I think the difference between plants and animals in this case has to do with cellular structures. Plant and animal cells are for the most part the same, but plant cells have chloroplasts, which is where photosynthesis takes place. Photosynthesis allows plants to create their own food, which is a singularly cool thing to do--all other living things have to live off of plants in some way or another. So yeah, I guess I think that photosynthesis has to do with the 'immortality' of plants.

Personally though, I think immortality is totally undesirable. I have no interest in being immortal, none whatsoever. Life requires change, thus life requires death, that's what I think.

Ah, yes. Again the same way as I think. Of course. There's an ending to everything. That's what the third dimension is like! =D
Just like everything has an opposide!

Though.. when I think about it this way..
Youve got Beginning, the opposide of it is ending..
You've got the middle, but what is the opposide?
If I could just draw that out, and think of it as a cycle, then it should look something like this..

So if everything that exists has an opposide, then there should be a middle between End and beginning aswell.. An afterlife :3

I think Im getting too deep into this XD

I might just post a thread with my Dimension Theories somewhere around here aswell... ^-^
I hope I havent confused too many people with this thread haha:P

1. Plants age and die like everything else. Trees have a natural lifespan and will die after it. Many plants age and die after only a year.

2. I've just had a lecturer who did the bes to convince me aging is good. Basically, programmed againg is a fail-safe agains cancer, without it we would just be big blobs of cancerous cells. One of the key things a cell must be to become cancerous is overcome a cells natural againg.

I should clarify that I'm a plant scientist when I say this. Plants die naturally, sorry kids.

1. Trees age, so do we. But as far as I know vegetation does not actually die.. Why do we? Why do some people die naturaly on early age? Why do some age over 100 years? Is there a reason for this?

Well our bodies are comprised of complex organs rather then the simple processes that go on inside of plantlife. The price we must pay for this is that we die much sooner then plantlife simple because of the wear and tear we put on our bodies. As for the life span of humans it is really all dependent on how the person lived and how lucky they where to be born with a strong set of organs.

2. Do you think there is a reason for our aging, and do you think that if we find out what it is, we could become immortal?
Hmmm...Probably but I dont know what the solution whould be other then to turn us all into machines but then we would no longer be human and theres really no fun in that.

3. What if we miss something in our live that causes us to grow weak and die? A nutrient maybe? Or maybe there are specific nutrients that make us weak. Trees breath different gasses than humans. Does the air cause aging?
The respitory system in trees is just opposite ours...I dont really think it really has relevance to our growing older....plants age too...just differently.

4. Do you think it has to do with our circulatory system? Trees dont have a heart. I personally think it is our blood that becomes unhealthy and becomes unable to vitalise our body. What do you think?
Hmm....I tihnk its more a combo of all of our organs and the fact that they wear and tear.

5. Other things to discuss, related to the subject:
- Evolution -is the only way to believe xP there is faaar to much evidence out there to deny it too much longer.

The current theory I was taught in genetics is that telomere (chromosome end) shortening and oxidation are responsible for aging. I find it marvelously ironic that we need oxygen to live, while it kills us slowly.

This article seems to back up the telomere shortening theory. If we could solve those problems, we might be able to live significantly longer.

Originally Posted by Yarrian

1. Plants age and die like everything else. Trees have a natural lifespan and will die after it. Many plants age and die after only a year.

2. I've just had a lecturer who did the bes to convince me aging is good. Basically, programmed againg is a fail-safe agains cancer, without it we would just be big blobs of cancerous cells. One of the key things a cell must be to become cancerous is overcome a cells natural againg.

I should clarify that I'm a plant scientist when I say this. Plants die naturally, sorry kids.

Hmnnn alright. It would have been quite usefull if it was known for a fact in biologybooks and such, as I see noone but you knew for sure wether plants die naturaly..

Originally Posted by Ashtara_Silunar

The current theory I was taught in genetics is that telomere (chromosome end) shortening and oxidation are responsible for aging. I find it marvelously ironic that we need oxygen to live, while it kills us slowly.

This article seems to back up the telomere shortening theory. If we could solve those problems, we might be able to live significantly longer.

Wow! o.o
So I was right? There's something in the air that DOES shorten our lifespan.

Originally Posted by D-Yoop

Hmnnn alright. It would have been quite usefull if it was known for a fact in biologybooks and such, as I see noone but you knew for sure wether plants die naturaly..

I presume a scientist never thought to state it in a book before since, to be honest, I'm quite astounded that people seem to think plants live forever.

Originally Posted by D-Yoop

Wow! o.o
So I was right? There's something in the air that DOES shorten our lifespan.

Not something in the air, oxygen. Oxygen is an incredibly reactive molecule and will happily break down your DNA and proteins. Our cell is adapted to deal with it but, when you think of the number of oxygen molecules thet go through any cell any day, it's no surprise that some get loose and do damage. This is know as the wear and tear model. The idea that aging is caused by, well, wear and tear. A build up of damage by oxygen free-radicals and a build up of debris in the cell, like partially digested proteins.

The second theory is programmed aging. We currently think this is the one that's most likely. It's the telomere one. Basically, at the end of every chromosome you get a lump of DNA that hasn't got any genes in (though it does have functions in the cell, but that's not imporant). You can shorten this quite a lot and the cell will still work normally. Every time you copy your DNA, becasue of the way the DNA copying mechanisms work, you loose up to 300bp of DNA from the end of the telmoeres. The DNA can only copy a set number of times, this is known as the hayflick limit. For a cell to become a cancer, one of the first things it has to do it get over this limit. There is a protein that makes telomeres longer but in humans we only express it in the cells that make babies. This limit is fine as most of the cells in your body never divide anyway and the others divide rarely, but it does put an upper limit on how old you can get, because sooner or later all the cells you need to divide will hit their hayflick limit. It's the price we pay for not being walking balls of cancer cells.

Well said, Yarrian! You're much better at explaining than I am.

Immortality is a common regret, is how I'd put it. We can't give too much, and we receive a little. People tend to think: Omighod, I'm not dead, yea! But in truth, they live way too long. In most case scenerios, they tend to thirst for death instead of wanting to commit to live.

I don't like the idea of immortality, really. But regeneration and immortality don't mean the same thing either.

For instance, regeneration.

Regeneration doesn't work for EVERYBODY. You can't just pop a new toe, BAM just like that. I know for a fact that star fish (sea stars ) can, but that's because they're animals with special cells. Or worms. But that doesn't mean that they are immortal. If we sliced them into microscopic pieces, then what? o-o

Originally Posted by Yarrian

I presume a scientist never thought to state it in a book before since, to be honest, I'm quite astounded that people seem to think plants live forever.

Not something in the air, oxygen. Oxygen is an incredibly reactive molecule and will happily break down your DNA and proteins. Our cell is adapted to deal with it but, when you think of the number of oxygen molecules thet go through any cell any day, it's no surprise that some get loose and do damage. This is know as the wear and tear model. The idea that aging is caused by, well, wear and tear. A build up of damage by oxygen free-radicals and a build up of debris in the cell, like partially digested proteins.

The second theory is programmed aging. We currently think this is the one that's most likely. It's the telomere one. Basically, at the end of every chromosome you get a lump of DNA that hasn't got any genes in (though it does have functions in the cell, but that's not imporant). You can shorten this quite a lot and the cell will still work normally. Every time you copy your DNA, becasue of the way the DNA copying mechanisms work, you loose up to 300bp of DNA from the end of the telmoeres. The DNA can only copy a set number of times, this is known as the hayflick limit. For a cell to become a cancer, one of the first things it has to do it get over this limit. There is a protein that makes telomeres longer but in humans we only express it in the cells that make babies. This limit is fine as most of the cells in your body never divide anyway and the others divide rarely, but it does put an upper limit on how old you can get, because sooner or later all the cells you need to divide will hit their hayflick limit. It's the price we pay for not being walking balls of cancer cells.

Interesting. Could you explain how it is possible for people to get cancer at young age though? I mean little children.

Originally Posted by +lieforrenn

Immortality is a common regret, is how I'd put it. We can't give too much, and we receive a little. People tend to think: Omighod, I'm not dead, yea! But in truth, they live way too long. In most case scenerios, they tend to thirst for death instead of wanting to commit to live.

I don't like the idea of immortality, really. But regeneration and immortality don't mean the same thing either.

For instance, regeneration.

Regeneration doesn't work for EVERYBODY. You can't just pop a new toe, BAM just like that. I know for a fact that star fish (sea stars ) can, but that's because they're animals with special cells. Or worms. But that doesn't mean that they are immortal. If we sliced them into microscopic pieces, then what? o-o

Worms? I dont know about that. I heard cutting them in half is just going to kill it. But if you mean a chopped off end.. I dont know if it heals^-^;

Lizards are the best example if I say so myself. If their tails are chopped off they grow back. Also reptiles are the longest living creatures. Wouldnt it be crazy if trees somehow evolved into reptiles(dinosaurs), then reptiles into mamals? O_o

Ive seen tv shows about dinosaurs showing simularities with certain creatures we still see today. Also reptiles have scales, are coldblooded, have good healing abilities, and grow old.

I know the Darwin theory goes differently, but there could be other possibilities right?

I know, but just because they can regenerate doesn't mean that they are immortal. Certain body parts yeah, but not the entire body. o-o;

Originally Posted by D-Yoop

Though.. when I think about it this way..
Youve got Beginning, the opposide of it is ending..
You've got the middle, but what is the opposide?
If I could just draw that out, and think of it as a cycle, then it should look something like this..

So if everything that exists has an opposide, then there should be a middle between End and beginning aswell.. An afterlife :3

I think Im getting too deep into this XD

I might just post a thread with my Dimension Theories somewhere around here aswell... ^-^
I hope I havent confused too many people with this thread haha:P

Whoa, that is a really interesting idea. I never though about middles having an opposite before. o__o

I don't know if I agree that everything has an opposite though. That's too simple for my liking. Certainly there are opposites, and many things have them, but some things are to complex to fall into a simple black and white.

But thinking of middles as having an opposite is totally interesting anyway. :D

hehe, good point. I never thought of that either. It's because immortality has bonds that life nor death cross, making it harder to categorize.

Originally Posted by +lieforrenn

I know, but just because they can regenerate doesn't mean that they are immortal. Certain body parts yeah, but not the entire body. o-o;

uhhuh. I used regeneration as an example of the power to heal. But it seems to be different doesnt it?

Originally Posted by Chexala

Whoa, that is a really interesting idea. I never though about middles having an opposite before. o__o

I don't know if I agree that everything has an opposite though. That's too simple for my liking. Certainly there are opposites, and many things have them, but some things are to complex to fall into a simple black and white.

But thinking of middles as having an opposite is totally interesting anyway. :D

haha thanks:3
I come up with stuff like this pretty often, so I think Ill start more threads like these ^-^

Too simple? Well everything's simple. Untill you get into the details =D

Err...yeah. Regeneration is very different from immortality. Bad example. :/