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` T O K Y O
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#1
Old 02-16-2008, 08:39 PM

I've noticed some people are referring Taiwan and China are two different countries. Do you agree or no? I didn't even know when this happened. Even on some of the North American maps it says that their separate. But most Chinese people don't think so, and aswell as a few "taiwanese people".

I mean they speak Mandarin.
And Mandarin isn't like english, it's not some international language.
but Taiwanese people speak it anyways, I've heard they came up with their own language, but it's very erm... yeah...


so please give your own opinions, do you think Taiwan and China are separated? They aren't? should they or should they not be.



http://us.chineseembassy.org/eng/zt/twwt/t36717.htm

Last edited by ` T O K Y O; 05-18-2008 at 06:08 AM..

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#2
Old 02-16-2008, 08:49 PM

I consider them separate.. they speak the same languages (most), and they are Chinese people, but I don't know.. I feel that they're different. xD

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#3
Old 02-16-2008, 09:03 PM

@ Suppi ;

Really?
Why would Chinese people be different from eachother o.o"

I think some of the Taiwanese people wants to be independent because they think they're to good to be in China.

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#4
Old 02-16-2008, 09:17 PM

I think that they are separate. The Taiwanese don't want to belong to China in the first place. o-o;

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#5
Old 02-16-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by +lieforrenn
I think that they are separate. The Taiwanese don't want to belong to China in the first place. o-o;


Actually Taiwanese and China were the same country since forever until like a year or two ago?

I was shocked when I saw the maps ...


And Mongolia was part of China aswell.
But they seperated.
thats for sure.
I don't think there's actually paper documents for taiwan to be seperated from China.


And another funny thing is South Korea and North Korea.
Seriously, aren't they all korean?


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#6
Old 02-16-2008, 10:00 PM

Yeah...about that...South Korea and North Korea don't seem to get along. Mebbe that
s why. :/

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#7
Old 02-16-2008, 11:02 PM

Well, I consider them as separate. They may speak the same language, but their cultures are kind of different. I mean Chinese also has more than one dialect, like Cantonese. I don't really think that Taiwanese people speak that. I know a lot of Chinese people that think of them as separate.

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#8
Old 02-17-2008, 01:40 AM

First off, I'm Cantonese - and I'm an ABC (American Born Chinese).

I watch a lot of chinese television because I have the channels. I watch mostly Hong Kong television, but sometimes I also watch China tv and the Taiwan channel.

Even I can see a difference between Hong Kong, Mainland China, and Taiwan.

Taiwan's Mandarin is definitely different from China's Mandarin. I speak Cantonese, but I can hear a bit of Mandarin, and I can still tell Taiwan's accent apart.

Also, the government of China and Taiwan are different. That's a big sign of how they are like two different countries. A country can't be run by two different governments!

Many Taiwanese people refer themselves as Taiwanese, not Chinese. I personally know a man who corrected my dad who asked him whether he was Chinese. "I am Taiwanese." (he said, in English, too... whatever)

What you should be debating about is "whether Taiwan and China should be one country" That's what many people are wondering. Right now, they are treated as two.

You asked when did this happen? Umm... I learned it in history last year... Something about these two guys fighting over political power in China and one group went to Taiwan to start their own government. I believe it was a fight over Communism and democracy. Not sure, so I need to check on that.

My dad usually refers Taiwanese people as separate from China, but then again, he lived in Macau mostly. It had belonged to Portugal until some time in the 1990's.

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#9
Old 02-17-2008, 05:10 PM

Two separate countries.

The rift started a long time ago, when the Nationalists were defeated and escaped to Taiwan. This did not just happen "two years ago"... it happened around like, fifty years ago. Half a century. If Taiwan was a child, and China was a parent, I'd say Taiwan is independent by default. China kind of abandoned it. ^^;

AND I hate how China's ruining the Chinese language. Excuse me, Chinese characters should NOT be simplified. There is a REASON why the words are how they are. What is love without the heart? I cannot believe they butchered the character for "love" so badly, among other things. It's ridiculous. Those characters have been used and have evolved over a lengthy period of time. China is single-handedly ruining a huge aspect of Chinese culture: the written language. D< I know they did it for business reasons, but still. They just obliterated so many years of culture! Like, two thousand years! It's so frustrating! D<

The cultures have split off and evolved in separate directions. The two may share a common language, but that's about it. =/

Yeah. I LIKE my traditional characters with bu-pu-mu-fu with my Taiwanese accent. w00t! :]

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#10
Old 02-18-2008, 05:17 AM

Taiwanese people speak Taiwanese.
Mainland China speaks Mandarin.

Taiwanese people also happen to speak Mandarin, but Taiwanese can tell if you have a mainland China accent right off the top because it's rly different. In fact, those that speak only Mandarin will have issues understanding purely Taiwanese.

China keeps trying to take over Taiwan. They fired missles off the shores of Taiwan to try to threaten Taiwan during elections. China's constantly trying to bully and coerce Taiwan. Thus, Taiwan doesn't get along with China.

China is butchering the Chinese language itself, by simplifying for the sake of short-cutting and slacking off. Traditional characters are that way for a reason--they often came from pictures people drew a long time ago to represent things, and so you can see the evolution of a word through time, and even tell that something has to do with "fire" or "ocean" because of the characters, even if you don't know what the words mean. China also severely has human rights issues though they keep trying to hide it, as well as quality control issues. They also badly surpress women.

China's huge though, and it's not like you can just pick up and move Taiwan off away from China, unfortunately.

They are separate countries though, and anyone who was born and raised in Taiwan would be incredibly offended if you suggest they are the same country, or that "All chinese ppl look & talk alike therefore they're all part of china!" -_-'

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#11
Old 02-18-2008, 05:29 AM

They're very, very separate countries. Some Taiwanese would rather die than become part of mainland China. And..maybe only half jokingly...they'd probably be better off dying than part of mainland China, cause China despises Taiwan too AND China doesn't give a damn about human rights or justice--or at least no so in the past.. ^_^'''

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#12
Old 02-18-2008, 12:58 PM

..Did any of you look anything up before saying what you thought about this?

Technically [or officially to the People's Republic of China], Taiwan is NOT a separate country. [The island and surrounding regions of] Taiwan is known as the Republic of China [and is under the administration of the PRC], and have been since around the 1940's. Prior to that it was under Japanese occupation during the second world war, and prior to that, a host of different nations [from around the 1600's].

Taiwan does want to be a separate and independent nation though- and since they are moving towards 'democratic freedom', the US supports Taiwan with arms sales, and not forcing them to 'fall-in' with the rest of China. However, the US cannot afford to completely antagonise China, and so have not done what Australia did for East Timor.

The [PRC] China has threatened to invade Taiwan if there is a declaration of independence.

As to North and South Korea, it's a result of the cold war between the Soviet Union and the US after WWII. The US-allied Koreans set up a capitalist government in the south, and the Soviet-allied set up a communist government in the north. This lead to a civil war, and eventually the formation of two countries.

Vietnam has a similar story, but a completely different ending.

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#13
Old 02-18-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwendolyr
..Did any of you look anything up before saying what you thought about this?

Technically [or officially to the People's Republic of China], Taiwan is NOT a separate country. [The island and surrounding regions of] Taiwan is known as the Republic of China [and is under the administration of the PRC], and have been since around the 1940's. Prior to that it was under Japanese occupation during the second world war, and prior to that, a host of different nations [from around the 1600's].

Taiwan does want to be a separate and independent nation though- and since they are moving towards 'democratic freedom', the US supports Taiwan with arms sales, and not forcing them to 'fall-in' with the rest of China. However, the US cannot afford to completely antagonise China, and so have not done what Australia did for East Timor.

The [PRC] China has threatened to invade Taiwan if there is a declaration of independence.

As to North and South Korea, it's a result of the cold war between the Soviet Union and the US after WWII. The US-allied Koreans set up a capitalist government in the south, and the Soviet-allied set up a communist government in the north. This lead to a civil war, and eventually the formation of two countries.

Vietnam has a similar story, but a comple

tely different ending.

Thankyou.
It seems that most people here have been fooled by the Us. They seem to want Taiwan separated from China. It's funny how they even separated them on maps =.=.

oh and the language Taiwanese people speaks is MANDARIN.

what if their accents are off?
because China is a big country there are many different languages, as well as MANY MANY accents =.="


Oh and China do give a damn about human rights.
China wasn't the one who had slaves a few hundred years ago right? Besides they took that big storm more seriously than the Americans took Hurricane Katrina...





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#14
Old 02-18-2008, 09:21 PM

Incorrect on language there, Tokyo.

I AM Taiwanese, and I speak Taiwanese. I happen to also speak Mandarin and English and a touch of French and Spanish, but Taiwanese and Mandarin are separate. Or, I could put up a soundfile and you tell me what you think it is, if you speak Mandarin and think Taiwanese and Mandarin are the same. :roll:

It's like English and Spanish; they use the same alphabet but the words are different though a few are the same. Taiwanese and Mandarin have diverged greatly. Right now, even the written language is different due to 'simplified' and traditional. Kinda like how Japan has some Mandarin characters but some of its own as well. Just because they have not fully diverged doesn't mean they're not two separate languages. It's just a matter of time. Languages are pretty much like speciation in the way they divide due to distance and time and then become more specialized and unique the longer they are isolated and have time to grow...but when exactly they are two entirely different species or languages depends on how you define them. If you're going by characters and understanding...well, even French and Latin have roots that English speakers understand.

The US's official stand is that Taiwan and China are together, primarily because China a rather powerful trader to the US. It doesn't benefit the US enough to help Taiwan or support Taiwan. It does help the US to help China though, and that's why they do it.

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#15
Old 02-19-2008, 03:20 AM

Written language is neither Mandarin nor Cantonese [and I guess Taiwanese?]. It can be classified as simplified and traditional - Koreans used to write in Chinese before they created their own language, and the Japanese system of kanji is based on Chinese [not Mandarin].

The fact that people call Taiwanese "Taiwanese" instead of "dialect of Mandarin" is a pretty big indication of the fact it's regarded as a different language.

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#16
Old 02-19-2008, 06:09 AM

@` T O K Y O -

Actually, the many different accents in China all have names, like "ha ka" "Cantonese" "Mandarin" etc. And they aren't all labeled as Chinese just like that.

In Chinese, Mandarin is also referred to as "Guo Yu" which means' the 'country's language', by the way.

What storm do you mean? O.o?

@BelleMorte - um, I wouldn't use English and Spanish as an example. English is Anglo-Saxxon/ It would've been better referring to Spanish and French, which are more closely related with Latin origins. English is a truly messed up language with plenty of origins. The few words that are the same are probably cognates, words that came from English (spanglish).

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#17
Old 02-19-2008, 07:41 AM

I think what she was trying to say was just that languages may start out from other languages, but due to different people isolating that language from its "main" language, it evolves over time to something new. o.O Like how finches from a large area of land migrate to islands sometimes, and then they develop entirely new beaks over time. XD

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#18
Old 02-19-2008, 04:16 PM

If I remember my history right, China tried to take Taiwan back in the day and I think it was the US that stepped in.

It's a separate country, separate people that consider themselves separate, and therefore, they're different.

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#19
Old 02-21-2008, 01:50 AM

life in red and black ;
dear, i know the languages in China well enough, i am Chinese.

Hurricane Katrina? not a storm, but a Hurricane.

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#20
Old 02-23-2008, 11:44 PM

I thruthfully never knew they considered themselves to be the same people.

I did, and still do consider them separate, I couldn't really tell you why, maybe it's just looking at maps, and seeing them separately. With maps that use colors and names to show different countries, Taiwan and China aren't the same color, and are labeled separetly.

Maybe it's like the US and Alaska or Hawaii. Even though they are legally part of the USA the people are usually identified as Hawaiian or Alaskan.

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#21
Old 02-24-2008, 04:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ` T O K Y O
life in red and black ;
dear, i know the languages in China well enough, i am Chinese.

Hurricane Katrina? not a storm, but a Hurricane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ` T O K Y O
Oh and China do give a damn about human rights.
China wasn't the one who had slaves a few hundred years ago right? Besides they took that big storm more seriously than the Americans took Hurricane Katrina...
>.< Sorry, it probably wasn't very clear, um, I meant the 'big storm' you mentioned in the above quote.

And my mentioning that Mandarin is also called "the country's language" was trying to point our that's probably why the Taiwanese don't say that they speak Mandarin, but instead, Taiwanese or "Taiwan's language", because of their depiction of being separate from China.

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#22
Old 02-24-2008, 06:01 PM

>_> You know... I watch a lot of Asian shows. And so I watch a lot of Taiwanese ones, and they always have some other Asian subtitle on their as well... but I figured out that they are speaking Mandarin? Anyway. I think I consider them separate? Otherwise... why would they be Taiwanese AND China? I guess, it depends on THEM all. Not us. But even the website where I download my Asian Dramas for... Chinese Dramas and Taiwanese dramas are separated. o-o;

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#23
Old 02-26-2008, 12:25 AM

Taiwan is a multi-partied Democracy. China is communist. They don't get along. Or rather, Taiwan doesn't get along with China and China wants to gobble up Taiwan and make it one with China. -lolz-

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#24
Old 02-27-2008, 02:11 AM

I believe that Taiwan and China are separate countries, but are both nations of ethnic Chinese.
They are definitely different but, like the numerous Middle Eastern countries that are considered either Arabic/Islamic or a similar name, can be considered a similar people(again, ethnically).

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#25
Old 02-27-2008, 03:06 AM

That's up to the people to decide. I do think Taiwanese would prefer NOT to be combined into China...erm, because of the reason they were separated in the first place. I think it is in Taiwan's favor to stay separated also.

 


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