Originally Posted by MrJetta

I know my opinion of the first case is gonna get me criticized but its just that, an opinion.

This is also the debate forum. You shouldn't ever feel that your point of view won't be challenged. But then, if you can't argue your point of view, is it really a view worth having?

Originally Posted by Philomel

I'm like that as well, perhaps to an obsessive level, and largely because I do not trust anyone. But then, that's what concerns me. My worrying often makes me feel trapped. I don't do things I'd likely enjoy, because I'm afraid of someone else doing something they shouldn't be doing anyway. I don't want others to feel that way, and so the suggestion that they should change their routine or do something they wouldn't normally do just in case there's someone horrible waiting to take advantage of the situation rubs me the wrong way.

Yeah, I do the same thing, to an extent. I wish there weren't sick people, so I could hitchhike and let my future kids play outside in the neighborhood. I don't really let anyone (especially guys I don't really know) hug or touch me, and I get suspicious when someone says that they (or someone else) like me because I think it's just some sort of joke or prank. I don't really trust people either, I wish I could and did.
In a perfect world, people would be free to do what they please so long as it didn't encroach on the freedoms of others. Personally, I wouldn't want to wear something really really skanky looking out or drink a whole lot. It's just something I'm not into. But the people that do, I think they should be free to do whatever. But since they aren't, I think they should be careful about it.
For certain, I hate having to 'be careful' and I hate suspicious feelings. But I know that there are evil, insane, sick, or people that just make bad decisions are out there and I have to be proactive about it.

Why, just the other day I was out for a walk and a guy pulled up in his truck and asked me if I was lost and needed a ride somewhere. Now, he seemed like a perfectly nice guy and I would have loved a ride, but it would have been foolish to accept. I put some thought into it and I think it was for the best. Certainly, it could have turned out all right, but just as certainly, it might not have.

I've heard the excuse that 'she led me on' and I don't think that justifies the act at all. I don't let when girls flirt 'just for fun', I think it's kinda mean and I wouldn't want someone doing that to me. It can also lead to dangerous or bad situations. That's another reason why I'm against it, and don't do it myself.

Originally Posted by EvilKittenNamedAli

if anyone claims it's the victim's fault, THEY deserve to be raped themselves.

So basically, someone who doesn't agree with you deserves to be raped? Isn't that very similar to saying it's someone's fault that they got raped?

Rape by definition absolves the victim of blame. Is it a child's fault to get targeted by a sexual abuser? Of course not. Neither is it the woman (or man's) fault that they got raped.

Originally Posted by Bartuc

If someone asked me to shoot them. I shoot them and they die. Is it their fault that I murdered them? No. It is the fault of the person who pulled the trigger that that person is dead. If someone says "rape me" it isn't rape because there is consent. Rape is forcing sexual intercourse against a persons will. Making them a victim. You can never blame a true victim. No matter how slutty they dress, or how much they seemed like they wanted it. It all goes back to the person who pulls the trigger.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. A victim is never at fault. And also, I can't believe how many people blame the victim. That is one reason why I am only on gaia to feed my fish. I wish those people would vanish from this world...

A victim is never at fault. No one asks for it, right? But there are ways a person can avoid the situation. ._.

well, the second scenario.....it's a little bit of a put-on. especially in other countries. I once when to Italy with a couple flirty friends. they saw some really cute guys while we were there, but they were really starting to scare me. They danced and talked all night. after dark, we (my friends) all decided to go for a walk (our hotel was in a town in the mountains, so we thought it was safe...but it was also where we partied) and the guys FOLLOWED us! it was so scary. Then we started to walk a bit faster and one of my friends said she felt like crying. The guys began to take an initiative and REALLY flirt with us in more sexual ways than we had EVER intended. thankfully, one of my friends was able to speak Italian fluently. she asked them to keep their distance. They had asked why and said that we had come onto them first. They were pretty angry. But then she explained that we didn't know any Italian and that we were from the US. That right there cleared up a lot of the situation.:sweat: apparently we flirt too much in the US......

Originally Posted by laniparis

I totally agree with you...

The girl in situation one was grounded (clearly for a reason, I doubt her parents would have grounded her for the fun of it) yet she broke their trust, this of course doesn't mean she deserves to be raped, but if you can't take punishment from your parents then why stop there, what about the law???

Also, she didn't have to get into the car, I don't care if the dude has to stop his car, open his door, get out, walk around to the other side of the car, open the passenger door, and invite you in, it's still your choice whether or not to get in with a complete stranger...

And yet, she did none of these things with the purpose of getting raped. That was entirely up to the rapist, when she got into his car, she didn't think about wanting to get raped. When he raped her, it was 100% his decision to do so.

Its never the victims fault. Know one in there right mind would want to be raped. The only people that would think that way would be the ones that did it.

Originally Posted by Merrow

Well, there are certain things like grey-area rape where you aren't so sure.

Like, both the guy and girl are piss-drunk out of their minds, and the girl maybe said no, or yes, or whatever the first time but said something different the second time, but she isn't resisting. The guy gets confused, isn't sure what to do, but just does what he feels like because he's too drunk to know better.

The both wake up the net morning like "WTF JUST HAPPENED?!" Maybe they both feel bad about it, but guess what? It's ALWAYS the man's fault.

I don't like that mentality. So while I WILL say that no one wants to be raped and no one asks for it, it isn't ALWAYS the guy's fault. There are plenty of scenarios where the woman is actually the rapist, but things always end up not going in the guy's favor.

If a guy gets raped by a chick and he feels bad about it, what's the attitude towards it?

"You weren't raped, stop being a pussy."
"What are you, a fag?"
"You got laid, stopped complaining."
"A girl CAN'T rape a guy."

Amoung other terrible things.

I haven't read through all the quotes, but this one I agree with 100%. there are cases that rape is not intentional and either both of their faults or neither. Though, I think the way men suffer most in this topic, is when girls claim rape to get what they want.

This usually involves ruining a man's reputation for life as well as being in jail most likely. Family and friends both may abandon them and it is very hard to win a case like this in court. Especially if it is consensual and the girl goes back on her own feelings and decides she really didn't want to, so blames the man for it >.<. Then of course there are the women who for some reason get angry at someone and use false rape claims to completely shatter that person's life out of pure spite.

It is quite unfortunate that men are stereotyped as being the rapists...my own mother sexually assaulted me as a child...

Alright...I just have one thing to say about this debate. It's SILLY. Rape is NEVER, EVER, EVER the victim's fault under any circumstances. And as a response to what someone said about men being raped by women. It does happen, and they are victims just as much as women are. But our society has it engrained in our heads that because men are "the strong ones" out of the two sexes that a woman wouldn't be able to overpower a man to be able to rape him when that is absolutely not true at all. And there's the fact that a lot of people believe that all men are horny bastards looking for a lay (which isn't true either). There are plenty of things women can do that they will overpower a man and force them to have sex.

Yeah......the human race disgusts me at times :D

no, no, no, NO - it is *never* the victim's fault!

"Victim" means that "no consent" was given. No consent means that whomever the other person involved was is the one who forced himself/herself on the victim. It is THEIR decision and their "fault" that the rape occured - NOT the Victim's.

About the circumstances that could be avoided - that's true of EVERY aspect of all our lives - sliding on water spilt on the floor and cracking open your head could have been avoided if (1) you avoided the kitchen or (2) whomever made the mess cleaned it up. Getting in to a car wreck could have been avoided if (1) you never got into the car or (2) chose to take an alternate route to wherever you're going. We all make choices, every minute of every day, and each choice has an impact upon our lives.

Choosing to wear (or not wear) a particular outfit is not an invitation to being raped, nor is the victim's decision to accept a seemingly innocent ride instead of walking home in the rain.

It is NOT the Victim's Fault - EVER.

(and guys can be raped too)

@Monkey: <3 I think I could kiss you right now.

Seconding Butterfly's comment. The sooner people start realizing that it's the rapist's responsibility not to rape and not the woman's responsibility to drastically alter her life in the hope of somehow preventing a horrible crime from being done to her, the sooner rape stops being so common.

no, no, no, NO - it is *never* the victim's fault!

"Victim" means that "no consent" was given. No consent means that whomever the other person involved was is the one who forced himself/herself on the victim. It is THEIR decision and their "fault" that the rape occured - NOT the Victim's.

About the circumstances that could be avoided - that's true of EVERY aspect of all our lives - sliding on water spilt on the floor and cracking open your head could have been avoided if (1) you avoided the kitchen or (2) whomever made the mess cleaned it up. Getting in to a car wreck could have been avoided if (1) you never got into the car or (2) chose to take an alternate route to wherever you're going. We all make choices, every minute of every day, and each choice has an impact upon our lives.

Choosing to wear (or not wear) a particular outfit is not an invitation to being raped, nor is the victim's decision to accept a seemingly innocent ride instead of walking home in the rain.

It is NOT the Victim's Fault - EVER.

(and guys can be raped too)

...woah. I think you hit the nail on the head, monkey. Even though the person decides to go a party or dress skankily it's the rapist's fault for making the decision to assault that person. In a way, it's kind of the same thing as murder, if not worse, because that person will live the rest of their lives with that horrible memory.

it the victim and the rapist fault.
the victum should of been smart enough not to go in a car with a stranger that she barely knew. you don't know the guy history even if she meet him for 4 hour she not going to know who he is. she should of stayed home in the first place or stayed with a friend, or call home. it's the rapist fault because he can't control his hormones and he is a pervert guy that going to hell. Your actions have consequences. Example: why shouldn't a child talk to a stranger? because the guy could be a total creep. Example 2: uncaring actions.
30% is the victums fault
70% is the rapist
yes it the rapist choice tto rape her but she choice to get in the car with him and not staying home like she suppose too. ask yourself this. would you get in that car with a guy you don't know? seem like a friendly ride that he offerring but honestly would you trust him enough to drive you home? know one push her into the car even i he was asking a few times.

the 2nd one i don't really get. if she at a party wouldn't people hear her scream, why would a rapist rape her with people around? didn't she lock the door?

this my opinion

Originally Posted by dangerousrage

it the victim and the rapist fault.
the victum should of been smart enough not to go in a car with a stranger that she barely knew. you don't know the guy history even if she meet him for 4 hour she not going to know who he is. she should of stayed home in the first place or stayed with a friend, or call home. it's the rapist fault because he can't control his hormones and he is a pervert guy that going to hell. Your actions have consequences. Example: why shouldn't a child talk to a stranger? because the guy could be a total creep. Example 2: uncaring actions.
30% is the victums fault
70% is the rapist
yes it the rapist choice tto rape her but she choice to get in the car with him and not staying home like she suppose too.

So, because she chose to do what thousands or millions of male teens do every day, without anyone blaming them when crimes are committed against them, she is at fault because a monster who probably would have just found someone else to rape had she not been closest committed a heinous and disgusting crime against her? I think I speak for most women when I say you can go fuck yourself.

Originally Posted by Philomel

So, because she chose to do what thousands or millions of male teens do every day, without anyone blaming them when crimes are committed against them, she is at fault because a monster who probably would have just found someone else to rape had she not been closest committed a heinous and disgusting crime against her? I think I speak for most women when I say you can go fuck yourself.

you don't make sense what i just said and btw male get raped 2. it horrible for a person to get raped but her action lead to that situation but it my opinion.

You definitely speak for me, Philomel. ;)

I'm supposed to stay home, because going out makes me 30% at fault if I get raped? I've read a lot of "interesting" statements in this thread, but this definitely is hard to top. :P

Originally Posted by Nalah Sin

You definitely speak for me, Philomel. ;)

I'm supposed to stay home, because going out makes me 30% at fault if I get raped? I've read a lot of "interesting" statements in this thread, but this definitely is hard to top. :P

O.O

I don't think its the victum's fault, ever.

If they knew they were going to be raped, they certainly would do anything to prevent it.

But, its not like a woman, or a man can know if being raped would be in their cards.

I doubt I made sense here... But, I don't think its the victum's fault.
They didn't have the intention to be raped.
The rapist had the intention of raping them.

Philomel, you speak for me as well. Then again, anyone who finds fault in rape victims for anything, let alone merely having a social life, deserves to be told to go fuck right off, IMHO.

Originally Posted by dangerousrage

you don't make sense what i just said and btw male get raped 2. it horrible for a person to get raped but her action lead to that situation but it my opinion.

Relatively few males get raped, so kindly quit with the BUH WUT ABOUT TEH MENZ crap. Men do not keep from going out at night, or limit their alcohol intake, or insist that people stay with them at all times while in public, out of the fear that they will be raped. They do not live in that prison. And I'm not just talking about rape -- people can be murdered, robbed, beaten, any number of things. And when this happens to a man, very rarely do so many people like you pop up and start victim-blaming.

And I don't care if it's "your opinion". "Your opinion" is the reason so many rapes are not reported, because victims know police often hold your opinion and will mentally batter the person reporting the crime into not filing a report. Your opinion supports rape, not only by allowing rapists to go free and continue raping when they might otherwise have been caught and stopped, but it is an opinion that rapists themselves often hold. A woman being responsible for preventing her own rape and thus, being held responsible when she is raped, is not far from the idea that if a woman "puts herself" into a position where it is in any way possible to rape her, she is asking for it and secretly wants it and thus the aggressor raping her is a normal reaction.

*blows kisses to Butterfly, Philomel and Wellel* ;)

dangerousrage, from your comments, it would seem that you are young, naiive, and looking to avoid taking personal responsibility for your actions. It sounds, in, fact, like you could be rather dangerous person to meet at a party, for example.

Are you actually telling us that the victim (and keep in mind the definition of "victim" is somebody who DID NOT lend CONSENT to the CRIME perpetrated upon them), somehow "asked" to be raped... by the simple fact that they happened to be in the same physical area as a rapist? ... that they "asked" to be raped because they simply EXIST at the same time and place?

Did you ask to be born with a certain hair or skin color?

Does the infant who's taken from their family also "ask" to be abducted?

Does the victim of a house burgularly also "ask" for their possessions to be taken? ... because they bought a house on a particular block - or is it the robber who Came Into the Neighborhood, who decided to commit the crime?

Your "opinion" is ludicrous, imo, dangerousrage, and I sincerely hope you grow up to take more responsibility than you currently seem to be exhibiting here, with this topic.




*applauds Philomel*

Originally Posted by dangerousrage

O.O

It would be easier to reply if it was an actual statement instead of just a spammy emote...

And I don't quite get how you could ever believe that nobody would take offense at you saying that girls are supposed to stay home and that they where 30% at fault if they get raped.

I wonder, if your best friend was murdered, would you still say it's 30% his fault for leaving his home and thus inviting the murderer?

personally people i don't care what you guy say. it not going to change anything. :/ now people are making me a victim for my opinion. they say all these tthings about me when they don't know who i am or what my history is or what i do. wow all i did was state my opinion... mmmm interesting... how people can overreact.